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The Bicycle Loses Ground as a Symbol of Childhood Liberty



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 29th 06, 10:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc,misc.kids,soc.culture.usa,alt.parenting.solutions
fgoodwin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default The Bicycle Loses Ground as a Symbol of Childhood Liberty

Barbara wrote:

Moreover, I'll point out that you have just PROVEN that this article
is no longer relevant. You just posted another article -- still
quite long in the tooth at 3 years old -- indicating that bikes are
now flying off the shelves. In other words, the trend that was the
subject of this article has been reversed.


If you read it, you'll note that both articles talk about parental
fear, and the second article says that bikes are being sold, but not
ridden, at least not in the same way kids did 20-30-40 years ago.

Frankly, I don't find the anecdotal evidence of interviewing one or
two parents and concluding that they represent the majority of people
in the US or world to be convincing. Of course, I also don't recall
that anyone I ever met had the childhood that these authors had, with
kids riding their bikes for miles and miles and spending hours in the
woods at very young ages, with no parental supervision.


I, for one, had a childhood very much like that. I suspect many adults
over age 40 did, else these articles wouldn't draw the readers that
they do. I admit my own kids don't do much of that and spend far too
much time indoors.

Well, if you read the newsgroup, you'd find I have, on many occasions,
on several threads, commented on all of these issues. Your turn now.
After all, you're the one digging up 10 year-old articles and posting
them with increasing frequency; you're the one with the agenda. Why
not share it with all of us.


Agenda? I'm just sharing information, which is what USENET is all
about.

  #12  
Old August 29th 06, 11:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc,misc.kids,soc.culture.usa,alt.parenting.solutions
Cathy Weeks
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 275
Default The Bicycle Loses Ground as a Symbol of Childhood Liberty

c. wrote:
fgoodwin wrote:


The points are valid - we used to ride our bikes everywhere as kids 30
years ago, and I'd love nothing more than for my kids to have that same
freedom. But, thanks in part to the internet pedophiles are around
every corner, people are driving too fast, not paying enough attention,
talking on cell phones, there aren't enough sidewalks or undeveloped
areas for kids to roam......irresponsible adults make it virtually
impossible for responsible adults to allow their kids to cruise the
neighborhood freely. Wishing things were different doesn't make it so.


Um... Actually, we were just having a discussion about parental
perception of danger. And the actuality is that the world is a SAFER
place than it was 30years ago. But everyone assumes and thinks it's
less safe.

Cathy Weeks

  #13  
Old August 29th 06, 11:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc,misc.kids,soc.culture.usa,alt.parenting.solutions
LaTreen Washington
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default The Bicycle Loses Ground as a Symbol of Childhood Liberty

Go chew a Midol you cranky moo.

"Barbara" wrote in message
ups.com...
fgoodwin wrote:
Barbara wrote:

The article discusses *trends* Are these trends holding? Are
bicycle sales still down? I don't know; all I know is what happened
10 years ago. Sheesh. Why not post an article from the height of
the crack epidemic and discuss current drug use among teens?


Had I posted the article w/o a date, I think it would still be
relevant. If you disagree, you are free to skip it.

And I'm free to criticize your postings. And I will continue to do so.
You copy things -- always on the same theme -- from heaven knows
where, violating copyrights as if they don't exist, then have nary a
word to say about it.

Moreover, I'll point out that you have just PROVEN that this article is
no longer relevant. You just posted another article -- still quite
long in the tooth at 3 years old -- indicating that bikes are now
flying off the shelves. In other words, the trend that was the subject
of this article has been reversed.

Frankly, I don't find the anecdotal evidence of interviewing one or two
parents and concluding that they represent the majority of people in
the US or world to be convincing. Of course, I also don't recall that
anyone I ever met had the childhood that these authors had, with kids
riding their bikes for miles and miles and spending hours in the woods
at very young ages, with no parental supervision.

In any event, why not tell us about YOUR kids. How old are they?
What freedoms do you afford them? How does it differ from when you
were a child? What problems do you think these changes cause?


Good questions, all. So, does the article ring true with respect to
the freedoms or limits you place on your own kids?


Well, if you read the newsgroup, you'd find I have, on many occasions,
on several threads, commented on all of these issues. Your turn now.
After all, you're the one digging up 10 year-old articles and posting
them with increasing frequency; you're the one with the agenda. Why
not share it with all of us.

Barbara



  #14  
Old August 30th 06, 12:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc,misc.kids,soc.culture.usa,alt.parenting.solutions
c.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default The Bicycle Loses Ground as a Symbol of Childhood Liberty

Cathy Weeks wrote:
c. wrote:

fgoodwin wrote:



The points are valid - we used to ride our bikes everywhere as kids 30
years ago, and I'd love nothing more than for my kids to have that same
freedom. But, thanks in part to the internet pedophiles are around
every corner, people are driving too fast, not paying enough attention,
talking on cell phones, there aren't enough sidewalks or undeveloped
areas for kids to roam......irresponsible adults make it virtually
impossible for responsible adults to allow their kids to cruise the
neighborhood freely. Wishing things were different doesn't make it so.



Um... Actually, we were just having a discussion about parental
perception of danger. And the actuality is that the world is a SAFER
place than it was 30years ago. But everyone assumes and thinks it's
less safe.

Cathy Weeks


That statement is way to broad to be applicable to my previous comment.
I'm sure in some ways the world at large is safer, and in others it is
probably less so. Some neighborhoods in the US are probably safer, some
are most probably not. Parents generally decide what they are willing
to risk and what they aren't based on what is happening in their own
locality, not what some obscure data says is happening on a global scale.

c.
  #15  
Old August 30th 06, 01:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc,misc.kids,soc.culture.usa,alt.parenting.solutions
Dave
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default The Bicycle Loses Ground as a Symbol of Childhood Liberty

One thing about this that brings to mind, never, never let your kid ride a
bike with his name anywhere on it! Makes em too easy a prey for someone to
act like they know them, and cause them harm.
Dave
http://www.noweldrecumbent.com


"LaTreen Washington" wrote in message
...
Another great article Fred.

I'm glad to see less of the little ****-stains on the street.

Got any stats on how many precious little crotch-dumplings are backed over
in the driveway by the payrunts? I bet it's more than 300 a year -
especially if you add in the Lil' Sizzlers.


"fgoodwin" wrote in message
ps.com...
The Bicycle Loses Ground as a Symbol of Childhood Liberty

http://www.helmets.org/wsjstats.htm

The Wall Street Journal
September 9, 1996

GREELEY, Colo. -- In July, 12-year-old Cody Gillenwater and his father
rode a tandem bicycle 925 miles to Phoenix. A few weeks later, his
mother wouldn't let him bike by himself to a tennis class five miles
from his house.

"I think about the traffic, and I think about my kid getting snatched,"
says Marty Gillenwater, who doesn't want her only child to become
another "face on the milk carton."

Getting a bike used to be a kid's passport to freedom. Those who grew
up in the decades through the 1970s fondly recall long summer days
spent on their bikes, when they would reappear at home only to eat and
sleep. No more. Many parents, even ones in quiet suburbs or serene
middle-American towns like Greeley, simply don't allow their children
to ride far without supervision.

"I wish I could go wherever I want," says seven-year-old Alexis Fleming
of the Dallas suburb of Richardson, Texas, as she sits in her living
room, her father's arms around her. The only time Alexis can bike
around her neighborhood is when her family goes on walks. Then she must
stay on the sidewalk and go no more than two houses in front of her
parents. Wistfully, she wishes aloud that she could ride all the way to
the end of the block, then back to the house. "I'd stop at the stop
sign," she promises.

Spoken Fears

What has put the brakes on Alexis and other kids, parents say, is a
nagging fear of the potential dangers lurking outside their front
yards. Heavier traffic and even the passage of helmet laws are constant
reminders of the perils on the roads. Highly publicized kidnappings
have only upped the paranoia. The irony of this isn't lost on a
generation of parents who themselves pushed the boundaries of
independence but don't feel comfortable with their kids doing the same.


"I don't protect them from risks," explains Alexis's father, Steve
Fleming, of his four children. "I just provide an atmosphere that's
more controlled."

So now, biking is yielding to more controllable surrogates --
supervised play groups, structured extracurricular classes and an
explosion of organized sports -- that leave children with considerably
less free time for discovering the world on their own. Alexis and her
three siblings, for example, are kept busy with a schedule that
includes not merely the old standard, baseball, but also swimming, tae
kwon do and gymnastics. Alexis gets the dance lessons her mother never
got as a child, while brother Zach, 8, can already do a double flip off
the diving board.

Still, Mr. Fleming looks back with longing on his own childhood in
Colorado Springs, when he could ride wherever he wanted by the age of
six. "I was a man of the world," he says.

Flattening Sales

Bike makers, too, have felt a noticeable shift. Sales of 20-inch bikes,
those typically bought for children eight to 10, dropped to three
million last year, down from 4.2 million in 1993 and a peak of 5.2
million in 1987. Some of this is attributable to rising competition
from in-line skates and video games, but parental curbs on how kids use
bikes is unquestionably a factor, says Bill Smith, vice president of
marketing for Huffy Bicycles unit of Huffy Corp. His nine-year-old son
has tough restrictions on where he can ride his bike. "I had more
freedom when I grew up in the Bronx than my son does today in Dayton,
Ohio," Mr. Smith observes.

Parental fears -- and dwindling use -- do have an upside. Last year,
242 children five to 14 died in bike accidents, a decrease of 59% from
1975, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
The decline came despite a 14% increase in the number of children in
that age group since 1986.

Meanwhile, though the child population has been steadily rising, the
number of children kidnapped, murdered or ransomed by strangers has
remained constant at about 300 a year during the past 15 years -- a
statistic that doesn't make parents feel any better. "I don't think
there's any question that public awareness of the issue is rising,"
says Ernie Allen, president of the National Association for Missing and
Exploited Children.

Fighting the Tide

Some parents try to put aside their fears, but it isn't easy. Jill
Parker of North Potomac, Md., allows her nine-year-old twin boys to
ride around a bike path in the subdivision where they live. "They need
to know they can do things without restrictions," she says. Still, Ms.
Parker admits she worries every time the boys pedal off. "I'm scared to
death about weirdos being out there and grabbing the kids," she says.

Greeley, a tree-lined farm town of 60,000 about 40 miles north of
Denver, seems about as far from those kinds of urban nightmares as a
place could be. But Sgt. John Gates of the Greeley Police Department
says the anxiety cuts across class lines. He says he sees fewer kids
riding bikes on the affluent west side of Greeley than when he was
growing up there, but adds that bike riding is even less common in the
working-class east side.

Some worry that the loss of independence can carry a price, cutting
into a child's confidence and willingness to venture into new
territory. Linda Robbins, who rarely allows her nine- and 11-year-old
daughters to ride more than a block or two from their Greeley home, has
noticed that her girls often have difficulty making decisions. She
wonders whether there is a connection. "They ask me really simple
things," she says. " 'What should I wear to school today? What movie
should I watch?' "

It can take just one incident to alarm a town, and Greeley had one this
spring when a 12-year-old schoolmate of Cody Gillenwater's was struck
by a car and killed after biking through a stop sign. Cody was so
bothered by the death that it took him weeks before he was willing to
ride past the accident site on his regular bike rides with his father,
Bill. Once there, Mr. Gillenwater made a point of talking about how the
accident could have been avoided.

Both the Gillenwater parents are passionate recreational bike riders --
the family owns nine bicycles -- and they often ride with Cody. At the
same time, their own experiences have made them more aware of the
dangers their son faces as a solo cyclist. Three years ago, for
example, Mrs. Gillenwater was riding by herself in the country outside
Greeley when a man standing by the roadside exposed himself to her.
While Mrs. Gillenwater laughs about the incident now, it also makes her
aware how vulnerable her slender 5-foot-2-inch son could be.

"He's a kid still," she says. "He likes people."

Cody only shrugs when asked about his mom's bike rules. "Sometimes it
does bother me," he says. "But drivers are not aware of what they're
doing nowadays."

Still, Mrs. Gillenwater goes the extra mile to keep Cody riding. Every
morning she takes Cody and his bike by car across a busy highway to the
elementary school where she works as a librarian. Then, Cody puts on
his helmet and rides two miles to middle school with his friends.





  #16  
Old August 30th 06, 01:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc,misc.kids,soc.culture.usa,alt.parenting.solutions
R. Steve Walz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,954
Default The Bicycle Loses Ground as a Symbol of Childhood Liberty

c. wrote:

fgoodwin wrote:
Barbara wrote:

Good Lord! A 10 year-old article? Where are you digging this stuff
up?



It may be ten years old, but the points made are still valid, wouldn't
you agree?


The points are valid - we used to ride our bikes everywhere as kids 30
years ago, and I'd love nothing more than for my kids to have that same
freedom. But, thanks in part to the internet pedophiles are around
every corner,

------------------------------
That's a delusion produced by sensationalist media, nothing more.
Your child's chance of getting "snatched" is MUCH LESS than it was
when WE were kids, the public is simply deluded by the prevalence
of these steamy stories in the media to sell more papers!!


people are driving too fast, not paying enough attention,

-------------------------------
Kids can be taught to ride the sidewalks and cross streets carefully.
If you don't teach them this they are endangeed by YOU!
Steve
  #17  
Old August 30th 06, 01:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc,misc.kids,soc.culture.usa,alt.parenting.solutions
R. Steve Walz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,954
Default The Bicycle Loses Ground as a Symbol of Childhood Liberty

c. wrote:

Cathy Weeks wrote:
c. wrote:

fgoodwin wrote:



The points are valid - we used to ride our bikes everywhere as kids 30
years ago, and I'd love nothing more than for my kids to have that same
freedom. But, thanks in part to the internet pedophiles are around
every corner, people are driving too fast, not paying enough attention,
talking on cell phones, there aren't enough sidewalks or undeveloped
areas for kids to roam......irresponsible adults make it virtually
impossible for responsible adults to allow their kids to cruise the
neighborhood freely. Wishing things were different doesn't make it so.



Um... Actually, we were just having a discussion about parental
perception of danger. And the actuality is that the world is a SAFER
place than it was 30years ago. But everyone assumes and thinks it's
less safe.

Cathy Weeks


That statement is way to broad to be applicable to my previous comment.
I'm sure in some ways the world at large is safer, and in others it is
probably less so. Some neighborhoods in the US are probably safer, some
are most probably not. Parents generally decide what they are willing
to risk and what they aren't based on what is happening in their own
locality, not what some obscure data says is happening on a global scale.

c.

--------------
No, that's exactly it, they DON'T! They go by the perception of danger
they get from the sensationalist media without regard to the genuine
statistics of risk, and they don't HAVE access to any LOCAL info except
to guess at it from anecdotes or their paranoia. They become over-
protective out of ignorance and delusional media anecdotes.
Steve
  #18  
Old August 30th 06, 03:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc,misc.kids,soc.culture.usa,alt.parenting.solutions
Claire Petersky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default The Bicycle Loses Ground as a Symbol of Childhood Liberty

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
c. wrote:

fgoodwin wrote:
Barbara wrote:


The points are valid - we used to ride our bikes everywhere as kids 30
years ago, and I'd love nothing more than for my kids to have that same
freedom. But, thanks in part to the internet pedophiles are around
every corner,


Oh yes! Oh yes! See: http://eclectech.co.uk/dailymailpicnic.php

------------------------------
That's a delusion produced by sensationalist media, nothing more.
Your child's chance of getting "snatched" is MUCH LESS than it was
when WE were kids, the public is simply deluded by the prevalence
of these steamy stories in the media to sell more papers!!

people are driving too fast, not paying enough attention,

-------------------------------
Kids can be taught to ride the sidewalks and cross streets carefully.
If you don't teach them this they are endangeed by YOU!


And the way you teach your kids how to be a safe pedestrian and how to be a
safe bicyclist is by them walking and riding with you. If you walk and ride
places, your kids will walk and ride places with you. They learn by your
example. Then you can feel more confident when they get to be older, that
they'll be able to take care of themselves. Getting a driver's license at
age 16 is much less of a big deal if you've been spending the last 6 years
walking, riding, and taking the bus around the city on your own. As a parent
you'll worry less; as a kid, you'll be more competent. Your job as a parent
is not just to protect, but to prepare for adulthood.

You need teach your kids that it's feet first -- you get there by walking or
by biking as your first choice. If you don't have your kids walking and
biking, you are endangering them much, much more than driving them around.
Why? You're leading them into an adulthood of obesity, diabetes, and heart
disease. How many of our children's generation are going to get kidnapped by
pedophiles? How many of them will die prematurely from one of the causes I
mentioned? Which is the greater hazard?

--
Warm Regards,


Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky


  #19  
Old August 30th 06, 04:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc,misc.kids,soc.culture.usa,alt.parenting.solutions
Ericka Kammerer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,293
Default The Bicycle Loses Ground as a Symbol of Childhood Liberty

Claire Petersky wrote:

You need teach your kids that it's feet first -- you get there by walking or
by biking as your first choice. If you don't have your kids walking and
biking, you are endangering them much, much more than driving them around.
Why? You're leading them into an adulthood of obesity, diabetes, and heart
disease. How many of our children's generation are going to get kidnapped by
pedophiles? How many of them will die prematurely from one of the causes I
mentioned? Which is the greater hazard?


Well, now, let's not be too alarmist here. Kids need
physical activity, but there's no magic to having to walk or
bike everywhere. For those who live in areas where that isn't
particularly suitable, they just have to find other means of
physical activity--of which there are plenty. While bicycling
is a great means of exercise, it is actually possible to be
physically fit for a lifetime without even owning a bicycle,
much less riding one ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #20  
Old August 30th 06, 10:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc,misc.kids,soc.culture.usa,alt.parenting.solutions
Penny Gaines
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 328
Default The Bicycle Loses Ground as a Symbol of Childhood Liberty

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Claire Petersky wrote:

You need teach your kids that it's feet first -- you get there by
walking or by biking as your first choice. If you don't have your kids
walking and biking, you are endangering them much, much more than
driving them around. Why? You're leading them into an adulthood of
obesity, diabetes, and heart disease. How many of our children's
generation are going to get kidnapped by pedophiles? How many of them
will die prematurely from one of the causes I mentioned? Which is the
greater hazard?



Well, now, let's not be too alarmist here. Kids need
physical activity, but there's no magic to having to walk or
bike everywhere. For those who live in areas where that isn't
particularly suitable, they just have to find other means of
physical activity--of which there are plenty. While bicycling
is a great means of exercise, it is actually possible to be
physically fit for a lifetime without even owning a bicycle,
much less riding one ;-)


However if you build activity in your lifestyle, it is much easier to
maintain it when life gets particularly hectic.

For instance, my family will take stairs where at all feasable, rather
then waiting for a lift/elevator. Our local multi-storey car parks have
up to six floors, and we will almost always use the stairs, regardless
of whether we need to go up one flight or up all six.

For various reasons this year has been rather busy, and it has
been easy for us to drop sporting activities. However, we continue
to just use stairs without thinking about, and walk most places in the
village without thinking about it.

Certainly, we could work at including physical activity in our lives,
but it is much easier if it is just part of what we do, not an extra.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three
 




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