abc's crisis of the foster care system (cross-posted)

if you want a scary bedtime story about the wars on activism, read the
following.............

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/01/332735.shtml

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/FB...d_to_0608.html

it's gov'ment in action..................

enough time has elapsed since the grand orchestrated love affair with
foster care for former foster care victims to have come of
age..............often, those with firsthand experience on the bottom
rungs of the cps ladder seem to be the ones pushing for changes in the
system................

doug confirms the crisis in foster care..............

wrote:
enough time has elapsed since the grand orchestrated love affair with
foster care for former foster care victims to have come of
age..............often, those with firsthand experience on the bottom
rungs of the cps ladder seem to be the ones pushing for changes in the
system................

Children stand on the top rung of the ladder, child hater.


doug confirms the crisis in foster care..............

He is part of the problem. Efforts to defund foster programs are what
cause the cases of foster care shortfalls for the children.

Those few you speak of above that do may have some among them that are
justified. There are also some that were made anti social, and mentally
incompetent, by their own parent's abusing them. Put simply, they do not
tell the truth.

Then there are the far greater majority that have nothing to say because
their experience was either neutral, or helpful, and in some cases,
lifesaving and they know it.

0:-


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

oooooooooooooooh my, everyone is a child hater except those who think
just like you..................like pedophiles, you seem to love other
people children just a little too much.............on paper, children
may be at the top.................in reality, they are at the
bottom...............otherwise, as abc's primetime pointed out, a
13-year-old would not have been placed in 19 foster
homes................ agenda-driven child protection was a squandered
opportunity.............as with public education, money's not the
problem...........a flawed design that stifled more creative thought
processes makes the system its own worst enemy and thwarted more
workable solutions for the foreseeable future...............

]:^ runs around her dog lot barking about my alleged hatred of
children and how all cps needs is more money...............

with rare exceptions, members of congress do not read constituent
mail..............staffers do that............congressional committees
have staffs, as do members of congress...............the question is
not whether someone wrote congress...............it is whether they got
a meaningful reply................in ]:^'s case, given the contrived
political slobber she's posted here, a staffer may have figured
harmless nut-job and filed the correspondence in the circular file
beside a desk............

gregory asks about ]:^ writing congress................

wrote:
with rare exceptions, members of congress do not read constituent
mail..............staffers do that............congressional committees
have staffs, as do members of congress...............the question is
not whether someone wrote congress...............it is whether they got
a meaningful reply................

No, they do NOT reply to all letters. How long have you been a citizen?

in ]:^'s case, given the contrived
political slobber she's posted here,

Sorry you don't care for the truth, but then you haven't even back when
you posted as observer.

a staffer may have figured
harmless nut-job and filed the correspondence in the circular file
beside a desk............

No, not on the issues I write about.

gregory asks about ]:^ writing congress................

"gregory" harasses. Nothing more. Not for facts, nor for the truth.

He doesn't really want to know. His credibility, along with yours, is so
inconsequential he AND you have nothing left but to attack others.

That's all he and you do.

Typical of those that have lost the debate and have been shown the door
long ago and haven't the balls to admit defeat and don't want to leave
in disgrace, they pretend they are still in the fray. Your 'team' lost,
goober.

You are little more than light entertainment, opinions. You never have
been anything else, and now you even post like sound bites.

You know as well as all the readers what a pipsqueak you were and are.

0:-


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Interesting how these agents instigate the crime they are there to
catch.

This is scary but I still think the PR plants
can do more harm in the long run because
of the large amounts of money available
for LONG TERM activities.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/FB...d_to_0608.html

FBI confidential informant also said to be provocateur

Jennifer Van Bergen Published: Thursday June 8, 2006

According to activists from Des Moines, Philadelphia, Miami,
Sacramento, and other locations, a young woman named "Anna" allegedly
infiltrated peace and justice rallies and anarchist meetings, and even
attempted to join protests against the Democratic National Committee
(DNC) ahead of the DNC's national convention last year as a paid FBI
confidential "informant." Activists say that she has tried to provoke
conflict at various advocacy events and violent incidents with police
to get people arrested. In other words, Anna is not just an informant,
she may be a provocateur.

Although she is known among activist groups as either Anna Davies or
Anna Davidson, others know her as Grai Damiani. She focuses her efforts
largely on "anarchist" groups.

The McDavid Case

In January 2006, Eric McDavid, Lauren Weiner, and Zachary Jenson were
arrested in California and charged with knowingly conspiring to use
fire or explosives to damage property. Their arrest was the direct
result of work by Anna, who was "deeply embedded within the subjects'
cell," according to FBI documents.

The FBI affidavit in support of the complaint against the three
defendants states that they planned on their own to engage in "direct
action" - which the FBI agent equated with criminal activity -
apparently without Anna's input or guidance. The direct action involved
bombing one or several locations in California.

However, McDavid's attorney, Mark Reichel, states that Anna was always
pushing McDavid to do something criminal, taught the three how to make
the bombs, supervised their activities, and repeatedly threatened to
leave them if they didn't start doing "something."

McDavid allegedly wanted to target banks, commercial trucks,
mountaintop removal projects in West Virginia, Communist party office,
and the U.S. Forest Service Institute of Forest Genetics in California,
according to the affidavit.

The affidavit, which was written by FBI Special Agent Nasson Walker,
shows that the agency has identified the Earth Liberation Front (ELF)
as "a recognized eco-terrorist group," which Walker states has been
involved in over $100 million dollars worth of damage since 1997.
Walker further notes that: "Environmental extremists under the ELF
banner have been known to use arson and/or explosives to damage or
destroy or attempt to damage or destroy government, commercial, and
residential facilities." Walker also states that "ELF adherents share a
strong philosophical connection to the anarchist movement," which he
notes "seeks to end the current system of government, economy and
replace them with systems characterized by a lack of
authoritarian/hierarchical relationships." Walker states that all three
of the defendants are anarchists.

The FBI claims that Anna has "provided information that has been
utilized in at least twelve separate anarchist cases" and that her
"information has proved accurate and reliable."

But just who is Anna and what makes her reliable?

Organization of American States (OAS) Protests

In June of last year, according to witnesses, Anna showed up in Ft.
Lauderdale, Florida for an anti-OAS protest which drew approximately
1200 people. Wearing a shirt with a red cross on it and carrying a bag
with the same logo, she appeared on the day the protests began and
identified herself as a "medic" from California.

One protester who had become ill during the event was treated by Anna.
"She was pushy," said Barbara Collins, a retired Miami resident who
says Anna gave her Gatorade with water and then left. "She gave me that
drink that made me sick, but later on she didn't seem that interested
in treating me. She wanted to get back to the others." Collins was
subsequently hospitalized for heat stroke.

Linda Belgrave, a sociology professor at University of Miami, who
assisted Collins that day, had to go find Anna again when Barbara got
worse. According to Belgrave, Anna told her she was "busy." Belgrave
did not see Anna attending to any other person in need of medical
attention. She was simply "hanging out" with the "kids."

Indeed, Anna was busy, according to other protesters at the OAS rally.

During the march to the rally where Collins fell ill, one Miami
resident, who asked that her name not be used, heard people talking
about doing a sit-in. Since the coalition had decided against sit-ins
and had negotiated carefully with the police about routes and
activities, she warned people individually not to participate in the
sit-in. Most did not, but Ray Del Papa from Ft. Lauderdale subsequently
saw Anna directing young people to sit down on the street directly in
front of a line of police in riot gear. In describing what he saw, Del
Papa motions with his arms to show how Anna instructed individuals to
sit here and there. Del Papa felt that it was a "set-up," a "trap,
similar to what the police did during the protests against the Free
Trade Agreement of the Americas (FTAA) in Miami in 2003."

The fences penned the protesters in completely except where the riot
police were, which was exactly where Anna instructed the young people
to do their sit-in, according to Del Papa.

"She knew they could get their heads bashed in," notes Mark Reichel,
based on conversations with the activists. "If you saw their faces as
well, you would understand that these people were not lying."

Under the Attorney General's Guidelines, the FBI and prosecutors are
required to keep secret the identity of a confidential informant.
However, Anna was seemingly "outed" last year by activists who
recognized what they saw as disruptive and provocative tactics and
posted pictures of her on the internet.

The allegations were later confirmed by Reichel, who identified the
unnamed FBI confidential source cited in the January 2006 complaint
affidavit for the McDavid case as Anna.

Reichel also viewed hundreds of hours of surveillance tapes of Anna and
McDavid and his cohorts. He notes that Anna's forte is identifying
"radical" young men and women and "getting them" to fall in love with
her.

The FBI will not discuss Anna's status or the specifics of her training
or operations but denies that informants are trained to provoke. In
response to RAW STORY's queries about Anna, FBI media representative
Karen Ernst said that "Sources are admonished not to provoke criminal
activity,"

"Sources operated by the FBI are closely monitored and the information
received from them is corroborated through other investigative
techniques."

Additionally, Ernst explains that the FBI corroborates information
obtained from an informant "before charges are brought" against an
individual. "Charges are brought when the totality of the evidence is
sufficient for either a criminal complaint or indictment. Information
from a source would never be the only evidence used to bring charges;
other evidence would include recordings, surveillance video, results of
witness testimony, etc.," adds Ernst.

Despite being outed, Anna continues to infiltrate groups and presently
is living in a collective home with some young people in Iowa,
according to Reichel.

Criminal Activity Plus Salary

According to the "Attorney General's Guidelines Regarding the Use of
Confidential Informants" (AG Guidelines), a "Confidential Informant" or
"CI" is "any individual who provides useful and credible information to
[the FBI] regarding felonious criminal activities, and from whom the
[FBI] expects or intends to obtain additional useful and credible
information regarding such activities in the future."

The FBI conducts a "suitability determination" for each informant,
which includes consideration of the candidate's age, affiliations,
motivations, reliability, truthfulness, and criminal and drug history.

Every informant receives and must acknowledge her understanding of a
written set of instructions, which are reviewed by an agent with the
CI. The CI is not allowed to engage in criminal activity without
authorization. A CI who is authorized to engage in "Tier 1 Otherwise
Illegal Activity" - which includes involvement with violent
activities by other persons, corrupt conduct by officials, and
trafficking of controlled substances - becomes a "High Level
Confidential Informant."

Given Anna's involvement in the McDavid case, where she was involved in
allegedly planning violent activities, she became a High Level CI.

According to Ernst, all sources are operated in accordance with the
Attorney General's Guidelines. Sources are required to meet on a
regular basis with an agent who provides them guidance and
instructions.

Yet in a scathing report released by the Department of Justice in
September of last year, DOJ inspector general, Glenn A. Fine, found
"that FBI agents violated procedures in 87 percent of the cases,
including some in which informants allegedly engaged in illegal
activity without proper oversight or permission."

As for Anna, she receives about $37,500 a year, plus expenses, for her
work. In the McDavid case, for example, in addition to her salary, the
FBI paid for Anna to rent a house in California, paid for helicopter
surveillance at her behest, and ostensibly also paid for the audio and
video surveillance rigged in the rental house.

Are there other Annas?

Although the FBI states that it does not target lawful activity or
activity protected by the First Amendment, in Florida alone, groups
advocating against the invasion of Iraq, the PATRIOT Act, the OAS, and
the FTAA have all been infiltrated, according to participants -- who
cannot prove that the suspicious persons were infiltrators or
informants. But documents released last year show that a
counter-recruitment meeting at the Quaker House in Lake Worth, Florida
was infiltrated by the Department of Defense. And the revelations about
Anna, who participated in at least two of the major protests in
Florida, further confirm activists' fears.

While officials have claimed that anarchists advocate violence, Fred
Frost, President of the Florida AFL-CIO, stated in 2004 at public
hearings after the FTAA demonstrations that anarchists "may look
different from you and me, but they are some of the nicest, most
peaceful people I've ever met, helping everyone - I have a great deal
of respect for them."

None of the above-mentioned peace and justice groups advocates
violence; all advocate using peaceful and lawful means of expression.

#
Jennifer Van Bergen is a freelance journalist with a law degree. Her
book "The Twilight of Democracy: The Bush Plan for America" is
available on Amazon. Her book "Archetypes for Writers: Using the Power
of Your Subconscious" will be out next year. She can be reached at
.

Greegor wrote:
Interesting how these agents instigate the crime they are there to
catch.

I am more than mildly amused. Either OOM is off his meds today, or is
stupider than he even appears, or YOU Greg, just got badly suckered.

Remember you claiming, more than once, that I'm a "liberal?"

I presume you mean as opposed to "conservative," which actually I am.

I presume also you mean I am "Left" of center. Is that correct?

Do YOU not recognize leftist propaganda when you see it? No, of course
not. You swallow your **** milkshake happily if it appears to fit your
paranoid delusions that someone is out to "get you." Especially if it
can be seen as authority.

Let me ask you this. If you saw an article like this coupled with an
advertiser list like this,

Absinthe Supply
Cuban Cigars
Salvia Incense
King Of Spirits
Dried Poppies

Would you consider the source a centerist, rightist, or leftist rag?

Kiddo, you didn't just bite on screeching liberals, but on the extremist
LEFT, and their diatribes.

Because you have cultivated the INCAPACITY to think critically over the
years you overlook things in the article that are inconsistent with
reality and how people actually behave.

For instance, in the part where the 'culprit' puts people into a sitdown
in front of the police, you really believe that no one in the crowd of
people saw the danger and got people to opt out?

Bull****. Someone decide to provoke a police attack. On the other hand,
notice what is MISSING right there. NO MENTION OF AN ACTUAL ATTACK BY
POLICE. If this were a true story in its facts, and an attack happened,
do you really think they wouldn't have mentioned it?

This is scary but I still think the PR plants
can do more harm in the long run because
of the large amounts of money available
for LONG TERM activities.

YOU, Greg, don't "still think." You have NEVER thought as long back as
your oldest archived posts to Usenet.

THIS is typical of you.

Or, Greg, own up. You have become a flaming LIBERAL.

And of course that IS your excuse for being unable to think critically.

It has fascinated me to see you accuse ME of being a liberal, when YOUR
language, the jargon you use, the causes you espouse, the propaganda you
rant is ALL from the liberal kant.

What is wrong with you, boy? Are you fast asleep you bleeding liberal
blatherer?

0:-


http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/FB...d_to_0608.html

FBI confidential informant also said to be provocateur

Jennifer Van Bergen Published: Thursday June 8, 2006

According to activists from Des Moines, Philadelphia, Miami,
Sacramento, and other locations, a young woman named "Anna" allegedly
infiltrated peace and justice rallies and anarchist meetings, and even
attempted to join protests against the Democratic National Committee
(DNC) ahead of the DNC's national convention last year as a paid FBI
confidential "informant." Activists say that she has tried to provoke
conflict at various advocacy events and violent incidents with police
to get people arrested. In other words, Anna is not just an informant,
she may be a provocateur.

Although she is known among activist groups as either Anna Davies or
Anna Davidson, others know her as Grai Damiani. She focuses her efforts
largely on "anarchist" groups.

The McDavid Case

In January 2006, Eric McDavid, Lauren Weiner, and Zachary Jenson were
arrested in California and charged with knowingly conspiring to use
fire or explosives to damage property. Their arrest was the direct
result of work by Anna, who was "deeply embedded within the subjects'
cell," according to FBI documents.

The FBI affidavit in support of the complaint against the three
defendants states that they planned on their own to engage in "direct
action" - which the FBI agent equated with criminal activity -
apparently without Anna's input or guidance. The direct action involved
bombing one or several locations in California.

However, McDavid's attorney, Mark Reichel, states that Anna was always
pushing McDavid to do something criminal, taught the three how to make
the bombs, supervised their activities, and repeatedly threatened to
leave them if they didn't start doing "something."

McDavid allegedly wanted to target banks, commercial trucks,
mountaintop removal projects in West Virginia, Communist party office,
and the U.S. Forest Service Institute of Forest Genetics in California,
according to the affidavit.

The affidavit, which was written by FBI Special Agent Nasson Walker,
shows that the agency has identified the Earth Liberation Front (ELF)
as "a recognized eco-terrorist group," which Walker states has been
involved in over $100 million dollars worth of damage since 1997.
Walker further notes that: "Environmental extremists under the ELF
banner have been known to use arson and/or explosives to damage or
destroy or attempt to damage or destroy government, commercial, and
residential facilities." Walker also states that "ELF adherents share a
strong philosophical connection to the anarchist movement," which he
notes "seeks to end the current system of government, economy and
replace them with systems characterized by a lack of
authoritarian/hierarchical relationships." Walker states that all three
of the defendants are anarchists.

The FBI claims that Anna has "provided information that has been
utilized in at least twelve separate anarchist cases" and that her
"information has proved accurate and reliable."

But just who is Anna and what makes her reliable?

Organization of American States (OAS) Protests

In June of last year, according to witnesses, Anna showed up in Ft.
Lauderdale, Florida for an anti-OAS protest which drew approximately
1200 people. Wearing a shirt with a red cross on it and carrying a bag
with the same logo, she appeared on the day the protests began and
identified herself as a "medic" from California.

One protester who had become ill during the event was treated by Anna.
"She was pushy," said Barbara Collins, a retired Miami resident who
says Anna gave her Gatorade with water and then left. "She gave me that
drink that made me sick, but later on she didn't seem that interested
in treating me. She wanted to get back to the others." Collins was
subsequently hospitalized for heat stroke.

Linda Belgrave, a sociology professor at University of Miami, who
assisted Collins that day, had to go find Anna again when Barbara got
worse. According to Belgrave, Anna told her she was "busy." Belgrave
did not see Anna attending to any other person in need of medical
attention. She was simply "hanging out" with the "kids."

Indeed, Anna was busy, according to other protesters at the OAS rally.

During the march to the rally where Collins fell ill, one Miami
resident, who asked that her name not be used, heard people talking
about doing a sit-in. Since the coalition had decided against sit-ins
and had negotiated carefully with the police about routes and
activities, she warned people individually not to participate in the
sit-in. Most did not, but Ray Del Papa from Ft. Lauderdale subsequently
saw Anna directing young people to sit down on the street directly in
front of a line of police in riot gear. In describing what he saw, Del
Papa motions with his arms to show how Anna instructed individuals to
sit here and there. Del Papa felt that it was a "set-up," a "trap,
similar to what the police did during the protests against the Free
Trade Agreement of the Americas (FTAA) in Miami in 2003."

The fences penned the protesters in completely except where the riot
police were, which was exactly where Anna instructed the young people
to do their sit-in, according to Del Papa.

"She knew they could get their heads bashed in," notes Mark Reichel,
based on conversations with the activists. "If you saw their faces as
well, you would understand that these people were not lying."

Under the Attorney General's Guidelines, the FBI and prosecutors are
required to keep secret the identity of a confidential informant.
However, Anna was seemingly "outed" last year by activists who
recognized what they saw as disruptive and provocative tactics and
posted pictures of her on the internet.

The allegations were later confirmed by Reichel, who identified the
unnamed FBI confidential source cited in the January 2006 complaint
affidavit for the McDavid case as Anna.

Reichel also viewed hundreds of hours of surveillance tapes of Anna and
McDavid and his cohorts. He notes that Anna's forte is identifying
"radical" young men and women and "getting them" to fall in love with
her.

The FBI will not discuss Anna's status or the specifics of her training
or operations but denies that informants are trained to provoke. In
response to RAW STORY's queries about Anna, FBI media representative
Karen Ernst said that "Sources are admonished not to provoke criminal
activity,"

"Sources operated by the FBI are closely monitored and the information
received from them is corroborated through other investigative
techniques."

Additionally, Ernst explains that the FBI corroborates information
obtained from an informant "before charges are brought" against an
individual. "Charges are brought when the totality of the evidence is
sufficient for either a criminal complaint or indictment. Information
from a source would never be the only evidence used to bring charges;
other evidence would include recordings, surveillance video, results of
witness testimony, etc.," adds Ernst.

Despite being outed, Anna continues to infiltrate groups and presently
is living in a collective home with some young people in Iowa,
according to Reichel.

Criminal Activity Plus Salary

According to the "Attorney General's Guidelines Regarding the Use of
Confidential Informants" (AG Guidelines), a "Confidential Informant" or
"CI" is "any individual who provides useful and credible information to
[the FBI] regarding felonious criminal activities, and from whom the
[FBI] expects or intends to obtain additional useful and credible
information regarding such activities in the future."

The FBI conducts a "suitability determination" for each informant,
which includes consideration of the candidate's age, affiliations,
motivations, reliability, truthfulness, and criminal and drug history.

Every informant receives and must acknowledge her understanding of a
written set of instructions, which are reviewed by an agent with the
CI. The CI is not allowed to engage in criminal activity without
authorization. A CI who is authorized to engage in "Tier 1 Otherwise
Illegal Activity" - which includes involvement with violent
activities by other persons, corrupt conduct by officials, and
trafficking of controlled substances - becomes a "High Level
Confidential Informant."

Given Anna's involvement in the McDavid case, where she was involved in
allegedly planning violent activities, she became a High Level CI.

According to Ernst, all sources are operated in accordance with the
Attorney General's Guidelines. Sources are required to meet on a
regular basis with an agent who provides them guidance and
instructions.

Yet in a scathing report released by the Department of Justice in
September of last year, DOJ inspector general, Glenn A. Fine, found
"that FBI agents violated procedures in 87 percent of the cases,
including some in which informants allegedly engaged in illegal
activity without proper oversight or permission."

As for Anna, she receives about $37,500 a year, plus expenses, for her
work. In the McDavid case, for example, in addition to her salary, the
FBI paid for Anna to rent a house in California, paid for helicopter
surveillance at her behest, and ostensibly also paid for the audio and
video surveillance rigged in the rental house.

Are there other Annas?

Although the FBI states that it does not target lawful activity or
activity protected by the First Amendment, in Florida alone, groups
advocating against the invasion of Iraq, the PATRIOT Act, the OAS, and
the FTAA have all been infiltrated, according to participants -- who
cannot prove that the suspicious persons were infiltrators or
informants. But documents released last year show that a
counter-recruitment meeting at the Quaker House in Lake Worth, Florida
was infiltrated by the Department of Defense. And the revelations about
Anna, who participated in at least two of the major protests in
Florida, further confirm activists' fears.

While officials have claimed that anarchists advocate violence, Fred
Frost, President of the Florida AFL-CIO, stated in 2004 at public
hearings after the FTAA demonstrations that anarchists "may look
different from you and me, but they are some of the nicest, most
peaceful people I've ever met, helping everyone - I have a great deal
of respect for them."

None of the above-mentioned peace and justice groups advocates
violence; all advocate using peaceful and lawful means of expression.

#
Jennifer Van Bergen is a freelance journalist with a law degree. Her
book "The Twilight of Democracy: The Bush Plan for America" is
available on Amazon. Her book "Archetypes for Writers: Using the Power
of Your Subconscious" will be out next year. She can be reached at
.



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Kane, In the process of attempting to discount the article
because it came from left wing activists, you seem to
have overlooked the POINT, which is not in itself partisan.

If anything, as a conservative, I am rather concerned
about overbearing government intrusions and LEO
spies sent in to FOMENT crime among political
groups, even if they are kooky ultraliberal protesters.
( Hello LaVonne! )

While you don't agree with what they have to say,
aren't you supposed to defend their right to say it?
(recognize the alliteration?)

Is THIS another case where you think that
YOUR ENDS justify any means?

Maybe you thought Watergate was a good idea?
After the tailgunner Joe stuff you spewed
I actually have to ask!

Greegor wrote:
Kane, In the process of attempting to discount the article
because it came from left wing activists, you seem to
have overlooked the POINT, which is not in itself partisan.

Are you blind?

You just wrote, "it came from left wing activists." How would that not
be partisan? Is this the one nonpartisan article they've written for
"balance?" R R R R R

It's deliberate made up bull**** ... if you can read with comprehension
you could see the weasel language throughout. I pointed out ONE case in
the article for example but it's rife with them.

If anything, as a conservative,

Greg. You are deluding yourself. You are a liberal by the content of
your postings.

I am rather concerned
about overbearing government intrusions and LEO
spies sent in to FOMENT crime among political
groups, even if they are kooky ultraliberal protesters.
( Hello LaVonne! )

That's liberal talk, child.

A conservative would say, If there is PROOF of this by the FBI hang
those responsible. Emphasis on PROOF is deliberate.

A liberal would say, "Hang those responsible." followed by, "NO, I DON'T
NEED ANY PROOF. MY LIBERAL SOURCES TOLD ME IT'S TRUE AND THAT'S ENOUGH."

What YOU do much of the time. If it's in the media and it agrees with
you, it must be true.

If it's in the media and doesn't agree with you it's a government plot.

You are a pile of bull**** standing in shoes.

While you don't agree with what they have to say,

I DID NOT SAY I DISAGREED. I pointed out the discrepancies YOU are
avoiding dealing with. My pointing my finger is about showing PROOF,
which they did NOT. And they weasel worded the entire article. NOTHING
is for sure. Someone wants to keep their name out of it. A group has no
proof, but they are "sure" she's a plant.

People do her bidding without question when she suggests criminal acts,
so they claim.

Do you think it just MIGHT be possible these assholes that DO IN FACT,
against their disclaimer at the bottom of the page, ADVOCATE VIOLENCE
AND VIOLENT OVERTHROW OF THE GOVERNMENT.

aren't you supposed to defend their right to say it?
(recognize the alliteration?)

No, "alliteration" is a from of repetition of phrases and words for a
rhythmic effect.

The word you seek is "attribution." Funny you should miss that one. R R
R given your little abortion practice.

As for defending their right to say it; Sure. I do. Did you see me say
they couldn't, or shouldn't? I simply exercised MY right to identify
what I believe to be their politics.

By the way, no one, other than the police and military and government
officials sworn into office or job is under any obligation to defend
another's rights. Only not to violate them.

I am none of those. But I do not try to violate anyone's rights either.


Is THIS another case where you think that
YOUR ENDS justify any means?

What "means" are you referring to? Your bogus insinuation above that I
am trying to stifle their free speech by questioning their politics?

Show me the connection. Not one you make up in your fertile raging mind,
but a real connection, if that is your claim.

Maybe you thought Watergate was a good idea?

The break in? Have you ever seen me support law breaking?

After the tailgunner Joe stuff you spewed
I actually have to ask!

You seem to forget he did in fact expose some dangerous spies.

You continue, as many do, to mix McCarthy up with the House, and their
abuses, which you've never seen me defend. He was a Senator. A drunk,
and a fool, but he did in fact do what he set out to do. Only dumped his
career in the way in which he did it. You've never seen me defend HIM or
his methods, either.

So precisely what in my comments about this 'news' source that OOM
offered up, do you see as as "tailgunner Joe stuff?"

I simply point out the extreme partisan manner of their writing
(actually Her writing) and the sloppy fact absence. Even admissions that
the accusers can't be sure...but the writer goes on just like YOU,
insinuating through innuendo rather than a display of FACTS.

I'll be happy to jump aboard if a reliable source finds some facts that
shows this person did indeed provoke people to illegal acts and
participate in them.


You are all over the place today, aren't you, little frustrated child?

You can't figure out what's going on by finding facts, so you make
things up as you go along and YOU believe them.

I'd rather deal with an out and out malicious lying fraud than you.

One can usually catch them. You twist and turn and redefine your own
position continuously, renaming yourself and your beliefs as long as
they adhere to your own delusions.

Sad case, you are.

0:- but comical

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)