Sleeping question - crying it out?

As far as crying it out goes, it may sound like a dumb question, but what
consititutes 'crying it out' where sleeping is concerned? I said I'd never
do 'crying it out' (I know now never to say never!) but I'm not sure if
that's what we do or not.
Usually I put DD down around 6pm when she is beginning to exhibit tired
signs, which sometimes come on gradually, and sometimes suddenly in the form
of a hysterical fit. Often when she has these fits she is also hungry, but
feeding her before she's calmed down is pointless unless I want a vomiting
baby and a bitten off nipple.
So bedtime these days usually begins around 6pm, we may have 10 minutes or
so of tears, after which she has usually either gone to sleep or calmed down
enough for a reasonable feed, where I think she gets quite a bit of
hindmilk. Her actual bedtime, where she may sleep from 6-10 hours, is often
then around 6.30-6.45pm.
I wouldn't say that we really nurse to sleep, as she usually goes to sleep
by herself - either the first time, or she wakes after her last feed and
wimpers a little before going to sleep. There is the odd occasion where she
has cried for half an hour, usually interrupted by an unsuccessful feed and
a bite - ouch! On most of the times she's cried for longer, they've settled
down to intermittent, soft tired cries, which I take to mean she's going off
to sleep. We've found that singing, rocking, nursing, cuddling only seems to
aggravate her more when she's hysterical, so I usually just put her straight
down. She knows bed is for sleep (she will cry as soon as her bum hits the
mattress if I try to put her there during the day).
I have always considered her a settled baby - not through anything I've
'taught' her, which has been discussed a lot lately - but because of her
nature and routines that have naturally worked themselves out between the
three of us, and she seems to have gradually taught herself. But is this
crying it out, and do you think it's distressing for her? I'm not sure if
'crying it out' just means crying before bed, or crying for a substantial
length of time until they get the idea. Are there babies that sleep without
a single tear, who only cry out of hunger, or am I being unrealistic? How do
the rest of you manage bedtime with a baby around this age (16 weeks)?

--
Amy,
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04

Amy wrote:
I'm not sure if 'crying it out' just means
crying before bed, or crying for a substantial length of time until
they get the idea. Are there babies that sleep without a single tear,
who only cry out of hunger, or am I being unrealistic? How do the
rest of you manage bedtime with a baby around this age (16 weeks)?

To me, crying it out means leaving the child to cry for ages until it goes
to sleep. I have friends that say they tried this once with their
daughter - she went to bed at around 10pm, and at 4 am they gave in. I
cannot imagine leaving a baby that long. DD would often go to bed without a
single tear or bawl. Other times, it took several hours of holding,
rocking, music - whatever (I don't know, that was DH's domain!). After 2
hours we'd try another feed, and sometimes that worked.

Cathy

Amy wrote:

Are there babies that sleep without
a single tear, who only cry out of hunger, or am I being unrealistic?

Yes, there are babies like that, but just because they
exist doesn't mean that you're doing something wrong if your
baby isn't like that ;-) Babies can be very different!

How do
the rest of you manage bedtime with a baby around this age (16 weeks)?

Mine always just nursed and went to sleep at that age,
so I'm probably not of much use. Our timing was different, but
they didn't really fuss at bedtime at that age (though they
sometimes did at other ages).

Best wishes,
Ericka

Amy asked:

As far as crying it out goes, it may sound like a dumb question, but what
consititutes 'crying it out' where sleeping is concerned?

In its extreme form, crying it out is putting baby to bed and never returning
no matter how hard she cries. Eventually, she will fall asleep from exhaustion
(we found my baby sister asleep sitting up once after TWO harrowing HOURS of
listening to her scream per the advice of the pediatrician 27 years ago). If
you do this every night, baby will give up hope that anyone will ever rescue
her from her dark and lonely bed and she will begin to sleep on her own, at
least for a while.

Modified CIO (often called Ferberizing after Dr. Ferber, who popularized the
method in his book Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems) allows you to check the
screaming baby and offer verbal reassurance and regularly scheduled
intervals--at five, ten, and fifteen minutes (and every 15 thereafter) the
first night, at ten, fifteen, and twenty (and every twenty thereafter) the
second night, and so forth. We did this with our first, and it took until the
night where we had to leave her to scream for 45 minutes before it worked.
Wouldn't do it again.
snip

How do
the rest of you manage bedtime with a baby around this age (16 weeks)?

I lie down in bed with the baby and nurse until he or she is so asleep that I
can unlatch him or her and get up and leave.
Leslie

Emily (2/4/91)
Jake (1/27/94)
Teddy (2/15/95)
William (3/5/01 -- VBA3C, 13 lbs. 5 oz.)
and Lorelei, expected 11/2/04

"Children come trailing clouds of glory from God, which is their home."
~ William Wordsworth

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:36:34 +1300, "Cathy"
wrote:

Amy wrote:
I'm not sure if 'crying it out' just means
crying before bed, or crying for a substantial length of time until
they get the idea. Are there babies that sleep without a single tear,
who only cry out of hunger, or am I being unrealistic? How do the
rest of you manage bedtime with a baby around this age (16 weeks)?

To me, crying it out means leaving the child to cry for ages until it goes
to sleep. I have friends that say they tried this once with their
daughter - she went to bed at around 10pm, and at 4 am they gave in. I
cannot imagine leaving a baby that long.

Neither could I...that almost seems like child abuse. How old was
this baby?

Carla
Mom to Victor born 5.16.04
www.victorpictures.com --See him here!

"Leslie" wrote in message
...
Modified CIO (often called Ferberizing after Dr. Ferber, who popularized
the
method in his book Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems) allows you to check
the
screaming baby and offer verbal reassurance and regularly scheduled
intervals--at five, ten, and fifteen minutes (and every 15 thereafter) the
first night, at ten, fifteen, and twenty (and every twenty thereafter) the
second night, and so forth. We did this with our first, and it took until
the
night where we had to leave her to scream for 45 minutes before it worked.
Wouldn't do it again.

This is pretty much what we have been doing, though it isn't necessarily
timed. If she seems too upset, I'll go in, talk to her gently and tell her
it's time for sleep and rock her a little, and if I know she's not wet or
hungry I'll go out again. I'm not hung up on having a set bedtime, but we
noticed her getting tired around the same time each day, so it seemed to
make sense to at least try to put her down before she got hysterical. As a
newborn, she went to bed when we did - perhaps 10-11 at night, but now she
has tantrums if she's up too late because she can't sleep without
distractions.

How do
the rest of you manage bedtime with a baby around this age (16 weeks)?

I lie down in bed with the baby and nurse until he or she is so asleep
that I
can unlatch him or her and get up and leave.

Do you co-sleep? I always seem to wake DD up when I put her to bed. We have
co-slept in the mornings, but can't do it all night as DH takes sleeping
medication before bed (plus the kicking and eye-poking made Mummy cranky).
Nursing does seem to settle her though, once she's settled herself enough to
nurse, if that makes any sense.
Thanks Leslie :-)

--
Amy,
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04

"Amy" wrote in message
...

Usually I put DD down around 6pm when she is beginning to exhibit tired
signs, which sometimes come on gradually, and sometimes suddenly in the
form
of a hysterical fit. Often when she has these fits she is also hungry, but
feeding her before she's calmed down is pointless unless I want a vomiting
baby and a bitten off nipple.
So bedtime these days usually begins around 6pm, we may have 10 minutes or
so of tears, after which she has usually either gone to sleep or calmed
down
enough for a reasonable feed, where I think she gets quite a bit of
hindmilk. Her actual bedtime, where she may sleep from 6-10 hours, is
often
then around 6.30-6.45pm.
I wouldn't say that we really nurse to sleep, as she usually goes to sleep
by herself - either the first time, or she wakes after her last feed and
wimpers a little before going to sleep. There is the odd occasion where
she
has cried for half an hour, usually interrupted by an unsuccessful feed
and
a bite - ouch! On most of the times she's cried for longer, they've
settled
down to intermittent, soft tired cries, which I take to mean she's going
off
to sleep.

snip

It sounds like maybe she's shifting her sleep schedule a bit from what
you've described and her age. Maybe she's overtired by the time you are
noticing the signals. When does she typically nap in the afternoon? Maybe
try putting her down before the sleepy signals start.

JennP.

"Cathy" wrote in message
...
Amy wrote:
I'm not sure if 'crying it out' just means
crying before bed, or crying for a substantial length of time until
they get the idea. Are there babies that sleep without a single tear,
who only cry out of hunger, or am I being unrealistic? How do the
rest of you manage bedtime with a baby around this age (16 weeks)?

To me, crying it out means leaving the child to cry for ages until it goes
to sleep. I have friends that say they tried this once with their
daughter - she went to bed at around 10pm, and at 4 am they gave in. I
cannot imagine leaving a baby that long.

Ye Gods! I would have ripped every hair from my head at that point. Hearing
DD cry in a distressed manner even intermittently for an hour is physically
painful for me. That poor child :-(

DD would often go to bed without a
single tear or bawl. Other times, it took several hours of holding,
rocking, music - whatever (I don't know, that was DH's domain!). After 2
hours we'd try another feed, and sometimes that worked.

I should consider myself lucky, it's never taken that long :-) DD cries
every time, but I'm starting to suspect it's more an automated response to
bedtime, as she cries _as soon as she is put down_ and in the middle of a
hysterical fit can be prompted to giggle by something as inane as velcro
(she has velcro overnaps, and loves no-nappy time, hence the sound of
ripping velcro means "Yay, I get to have a bare bum!".

--
Amy,
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04

Amy wrote:
As far as crying it out goes, it may sound like a dumb question, but
what consititutes 'crying it out' where sleeping is concerned?

Basically it is allowing the baby to cry in the hopes that they fall to
sleep without parental involvement. Some people check frequently or at
lengthening intervals and some people don't. The theory is that they will
eventually 'learn' to go to sleep on their own and then stop crying.

But
is this crying it out, and do you think it's distressing for her?

I think you will know if it is unreasonably distressing to her. You'll be
able to tell by her cry. I did a little bit of cry it out with #2 when he
was 6 months old. He cried as if he was mad that I had changed the routine
on him but not in a distressed panicky way. #1 cried a distressed panicky
cry when I merely tried to sit beside the bed instead of lay down with him
so every child is different.

Are there
babies that sleep without a single tear, who only cry out of hunger,
or am I being unrealistic? How do the rest of you manage bedtime with
a baby around this age (16 weeks)?

Mine rarely cried before bed at 16 weeks but then I nursed and co-slept so
what was there to cry about ;-) It was a lot of work and a big commitment
to maintain that routine. The family as a whole wasn't managing very well
with #2 and that is why I did some cry it out then. It was moderately
successful but I didn't do it whole hog either.


--
Nikki

"newfy.1" wrote in message
...

When does she typically nap in the afternoon?

She doesn't :-( We've tried, but as soon as she's in her bed, overtired or
not, the tears will start. She often has catnaps in the car or stroller when
we're out, and she's more frequently doing 9-10 hours at night followed by
another 2-3, so I think she's getting enough sleep, though who can tell.
Tonight I nursed her for over an hour, letting her have both sides, from
just after 4pm. It had turned into comfort/sleep sucking, and she looked all
lovely and dreamy, so I thought I'd be able to gently put her in her bed
after that and she'd drift off to sleep....umm, no :-(
I thought having a more or less set bedtime would stop the hysterics as we'd
be putting her down in anticipation, but I think she just hates bed. I also
suspect she's got something manipulative going, that by crying as soon as
she's put down she might get to stay up longer, so I've tried to be gentle
but firm on this; bed means sleep, even if I have to go and talk to her,
give her a top up feed etc etc, she doesn't come back into the lounge with
us after bedtime.
She sleeps fine when we're asleep, but it's like she knows that everyone
else is up doing stuff, however quiet we are, and I've no desire to start
going to bed at 6pm :-) Unfortunately she probably takes after me, I was a
night-owl as a kid, and I learnt to listen for Mum & Dad's snores and turn
the light switch on _very slowly_ to not make a noise so I could read in
bed, lol. Who knew it would start so young?

---
Amy,
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04