Sleep and older children

shinypenny wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

it. But in the summer, there are lots of times they're
going to bed at their regular times with their friends
still outside playing and raising a ruckus.

Isn't it still light out at 8:30 in the summer time?

Yep.

And what about flashlight tag? No flashlight tag for your kids? :-(

Not on a regular basis, no.

I can understand not staying up late just to watch t.v. or play on the
computer, but in the summer if the neighborhood kids are all out
playing flashlight tag or catching lightening bugs, I think that's a
good excuse to ease up on bedtime. Also some of the best fishing is at
sunset.

Maybe when they're older and can handle a later night,
or maybe for a special occasion, but not on a regular basis.

Best wishes,
Ericka

In article .com, shinypenny
says...


Ericka Kammerer wrote:
If the whole family is going to bed at 2am and
waking at noon, and they can still get done what needs
doing that's one thing. If one member of the family is
sleeping until noon, he or she is missing out on a
significant part of family life. I think it creates
distance in the family. You don't get to do as many
things as a family because by the time one member
wakes up, it's too late. So I don't really care if
they get up at 7:30 or 8:00 on a non-school day, but
if they fall into a habit of sleeping until 11:00am
or noon because they're staying up until all hours,
I don't think that's okay. They're missing out on
a lot of family life that way.

We're all slow starters on the weekend. We're too go-go-go all week
long. I like weekends to be for resting/recharging, and having few
commitments.

It's true these days, the older I get, the harder it is for me to sleep
in all that much. But for example this morning I slept in until 9:30.
I'm having my coffee and lounging in bed with my laptop, taking my
sweet time waking up. Kids aren't here with us today, but if they were,
they'd just be getting up now. None of us are talkative for the first
few hours in the morning anyway, so forget quality family time in the
morning. Nobody's missing anything around here if they sleep in past
noon.

My family (just me and my son) has always been like that, too.

But, if what should have been a quick trip to get some clothes for the upcoming
band concert (those black slacks only worn for that, and he's grown three inches
since last fall) soaks the whole afternoon because Mr. Beauty Sleep is up at
noon and slow and grumpty 'till 1:30 pm, things do tend to fall apart.

Plus, like when I was younger, a sleeping-late habit just gets later and later.
Somewhere along the line a limit has to be set, or the day will start at 4pm!
Seriously.

So I split the difference and get him up at about 10:00 am on days like that.
This accomodates both the neighborhood late-evening 'manhunt' games and the next
day.

Although this morning, he's back just last night from his class trip to D.C.,
and I'm letting him sleep in 'till noon.


That's how I like weekends - we're never out the door before noon. On
purpose I do not schedule any activities before noon, having learned
the hard way that it sucks to have to be ready and rush out the door on
a weekend morning for tennis or swimming or whatever. We all just end
up stressed and grumpy. On the weekends we just want a break from all
that. We go out as a family when everyone is ready, even if we have to
wait around for the laggards, that's okay, because I hate having to
crack the whip and keep everyone on schedule on the weekends.

Well, it only works if *everyone* in the household is pretty much that way.
And, since the rest of the world is geared earlier, you can find yourself
catching the only straggling last activities of a local fair, and things like
that.


This was how it was for me growing up too. My mother was and still is a
serious night owl. She never minded us staying up until dawn reading in
bed, and then sleeping in well past lunchtime, because she did the same
thing herself. In summers we didn't go to camp or anything like that.
During school year we also didn't have any extracurricular activities,
not like my kids have today, nor did we attend afterschool. Pace was
slower and less stressful, and it continues like that when we visit my
parents in the summer.

I can definitely see where you're coming from. But I still find that in the
long run things get bogged down unless I set some kind of mid-morning start
time.

Cheers,
Banty


--

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
..

Like I said, if the whole family can be on that
schedule, fine. I'm all for weekends being more restful,
but we can't afford to lay about until noon on weekends
on any kind of regular basis. Heck, with the toddler's
nap, that would mean no going out until late afternoon! ;-)
(Obviously, that's a temporary issue, but will affect
us probably for two more years, so it isn't really short
term either!).

Yep, having a toddler who still naps changes the picture.

jen

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
news
Like I said, if the whole family can be on that
schedule, fine. I'm all for weekends being more restful,
but we can't afford to lay about until noon on weekends
on any kind of regular basis. Heck, with the toddler's
nap, that would mean no going out until late afternoon! ;-)
(Obviously, that's a temporary issue, but will affect
us probably for two more years, so it isn't really short
term either!).

As I said, my son is a natural early riser. And so when he was
younger, at least one of us had to be up with him. And the whole
family tended to get up earlier. Now he's almost 8. He's perfectly
capable of getting up by himself and entertaining himself for a while.
But I don't like the idea of him sitting there alone for the 2 or more
hours it would be before the rest of us got up on our own, so I
generally still get up early, though he generally does still beat me.

Nonetheless, I still don't buy that if the family are on different
schedules, everyone must accommodate the earliest riser. I think the
late risers can get up early now and again if there is a reason, the
early risers can stay up late now and again if there is a reason, and
no one needs to artificially dictate anyone else's schedule.

Bizby

"Banty" wrote in message
...
Well, it only works if *everyone* in the household is pretty much
that way.
And, since the rest of the world is geared earlier, you can find
yourself
catching the only straggling last activities of a local fair, and
things like
that.

Well, as I told Ericka, I don't agree that the earliest riser gets to
dictate the schedule for the whole family. And the "early to beds"
will miss out on things too, like the night games of baseball,
fireworks, star-gazing on a balmy sunny night, and things like that.

Bizby

In article ,
"bizby40" wrote:

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
news
Like I said, if the whole family can be on that
schedule, fine. I'm all for weekends being more restful,
but we can't afford to lay about until noon on weekends
on any kind of regular basis. Heck, with the toddler's
nap, that would mean no going out until late afternoon! ;-)
(Obviously, that's a temporary issue, but will affect
us probably for two more years, so it isn't really short
term either!).

As I said, my son is a natural early riser. And so when he was
younger, at least one of us had to be up with him. And the whole
family tended to get up earlier. Now he's almost 8. He's perfectly
capable of getting up by himself and entertaining himself for a while.
But I don't like the idea of him sitting there alone for the 2 or more
hours it would be before the rest of us got up on our own, so I
generally still get up early, though he generally does still beat me.

Nonetheless, I still don't buy that if the family are on different
schedules, everyone must accommodate the earliest riser. I think the
late risers can get up early now and again if there is a reason, the
early risers can stay up late now and again if there is a reason, and
no one needs to artificially dictate anyone else's schedule.

Bizby



It never bothered me to have my son (the only morning lark in this
household) up alone for a while. He'd read, or play computer games, or
whatever, until the rest of us started stirring.

I generally let the kids sleep until they woke up on Saturdays, unless
there was something specific we were doing -- and then I warned them on
Friday that we'd be getting up at a specific time. (Sunday's awake time
was dictated by what time church started.)

Summers were pretty much the same, except that if it started drifting
TOO far out of line I'd establish a "gotta be up by" time for Monday
through Friday (usually around 10:00), though not a bed time. "Too far
out of line" was a mushy concept, defined however the heck I felt like
it at the time, but basically amounted to when one or more kids was
sleeping so late that it DID begin to interfer -- like, when they were
fixing themselves breakfast as I was starting dinner. (Yes, that's a
bit of an exageration, but you get the idea.)
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
sleeping until noon, he or she is missing out on a
significant part of family life. I think it creates
distance in the family. You don't get to do as many
things as a family because by the time one member
wakes up, it's too late. So I don't really care if
they get up at 7:30 or 8:00 on a non-school day, but
if they fall into a habit of sleeping until 11:00am
or noon because they're staying up until all hours,
I don't think that's okay. They're missing out on
a lot of family life that way.

Well, here's a case of "every family is different", because for my bunch
the family life they'd be missing out on tended to happen in the evenings,
when we might cook out on the deck and talk, or go for a walk in the park in
the cool of the evening, or hang out and watch the moon, etc. Nobody
considered the errands that might happen earlier in the day to be primetime
family life - it is definitely those evening hours that I would have
regretted missing.

bizby40 wrote:

Nonetheless, I still don't buy that if the family are on different
schedules, everyone must accommodate the earliest riser. I think the
late risers can get up early now and again if there is a reason, the
early risers can stay up late now and again if there is a reason, and
no one needs to artificially dictate anyone else's schedule.

Everyone has to bend and accommodate special
occasions. I still contend that if you've got, say, a teen
who habitually gets up at noon and the rest of the family
on more of a 8am-10pm schedule, you're missing out on a
lot of family time. That means that on weekends, whatever
the rest of the family is doing in the morning, the
late sleeper is missing out on. Whatever the night owl
is doing late at night, the rest of the family is
missing out on. And while I see that teens need to
become more independent and spend more time with their
friends and their own pursuits, I don't think it's an
accident that virtually all of the teens I know who
sleep late all the time end up living very separate
from their families. By the time they get up, they
have things they need or want to do on their own
in the afternoons and evenings (since that's when
they can be out doing things with their friends),
and they're spending the rest of the time doing homework
or other things on their own and there just isn't time
for family because they've missed out on a big chunk
of the rest of the family's day. If the rest of the
family is on the same schedule, as I've said before,
not an issue. But otherwise, the natural and reasonable
need for them to do their own things tends to drive out
family time--not entirely, but enough that it makes a
big dent in a commodity that tends to be in scarce supply
to begin with. It ain't easy getting family time as
kids get older and have other things to do and increasing
homework demands.
It's not a question of all the things on the
calendar. It's about having time as a family together.
It's just natural that if you whack out 4 hours at
the beginning of the day (8am vs. noon wakeup) and another
several hours at the end of the day, you've substantially
limited the potential for family time.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Joy wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
sleeping until noon, he or she is missing out on a
significant part of family life. I think it creates
distance in the family. You don't get to do as many
things as a family because by the time one member
wakes up, it's too late. So I don't really care if
they get up at 7:30 or 8:00 on a non-school day, but
if they fall into a habit of sleeping until 11:00am
or noon because they're staying up until all hours,
I don't think that's okay. They're missing out on
a lot of family life that way.

Well, here's a case of "every family is different", because for my bunch
the family life they'd be missing out on tended to happen in the evenings,
when we might cook out on the deck and talk, or go for a walk in the park in
the cool of the evening, or hang out and watch the moon, etc. Nobody
considered the errands that might happen earlier in the day to be primetime
family life - it is definitely those evening hours that I would have
regretted missing.

We just do those things earlier in the day, when
we don't have cranky, tired kids to deal with. It's not
very relaxing or fun when they're sleep deprived.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Banty wrote:

I can definitely see where you're coming from. But I still find that in the
long run things get bogged down unless I set some kind of mid-morning start
time.

For us, anyway. I'm more of a laid back sort of
person who can be happy as a clam hanging around and not
doing much, but I have to get going because there's plenty
that needs doing around the home on weekends. My kids
are higher energy and want to be *doing* things. We
can't get in the "doing things" part if we start too late.
Also, they enjoy their activities, and they have significant
weekend commitments. Church and Sunday school takes up
Sunday morning, handbells takes part of Sunday afternoon,
and while Saturdays don't have any regularly scheduled
activities, for the next two months Saturdays will have
significant commitments for dance rehearsals or performances.
Also, music practice has to get done even on weekends
(they get to pick their day off from practice, but
they usually choose a weekday for that), and if they
don't get that out of the way in the morning, it's
hanging around their necks. Plus, there's usually some
homework that needs to get done over the weekend.

So, taking the whole morning to lie in even when
there isn't a specific activity in the morning just
puts everyone behind the eight ball. We could, of course,
choose not to have the activities, but the kids enjoy
them and certainly have the energy to do them. They
could probably cram in all the stuff they needed to do
for themselves later in the day, but not without
unreasonable demands on everyone else's schedule and
not without driving out family time. In fact, at the
moment they're both practicing and will do a bit of
homework after that before having time to play and then
off to rehearsals. Meanwhile, we have a number of
projects to be working on, and the kids have some
responsibilities around the house to attend to.
Guess what goes when the time gets limited? It's
almost always the responsibilities around the house
and the family time ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka