Man walks into office and kills ex-girlfriend over child support

"April" wrote in message
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"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
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"John Larkin" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"
wrote:


"John Larkin" wrote in
message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpcnvok@4ax. com...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation like that.
(And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you would *never*
behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John, I would
like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok for a woman
to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12 years have
passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back support? Do
you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that child a father
for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and cared for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her something? Even if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80 cents an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE of the hugs
and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the firts day of schools,
the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and wrestling matches and
dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the other wonderful growing up
memories that dad's and kids share, then and only then should he pay
her "child support" for all the years she stole from him and his child.
If SHE made the unilateral decision to be a single parent for 12 years
(while keeping all the wonders of the child's growing and development
for herself), she should be not only willing, but obligated, to pay the
price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn for you for
5 years, but only did it while you were at work, and never told you he
was doing it, would you be willing to fork over several thousand
dollars when he demanded it at the end of 5 years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or spouses to
totally agree with you. To make my point, if you gave your friend a
lawnmower and he broke it while doing your lawn.... should YOU have to
pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men should be
handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and so was I.
Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without informing
the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years of back child support
plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do that. because some men have been
abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known some mothers
who have abused their children--does that mean that it is ok with you
that a father could take his child and run off with the child, and 12
years later demand 12 years of back child support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30 years, I
finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my life. I WAS an
abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by her. My mother
doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to keep me away from my
father all those years and deprive me of having him in my formative years.
( doesn't matter, come to find out I was always like him even when he
wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were generalizing in your post so I
retorted doing the same. I don't totally disagree with you but I don't
totally agree either. There are exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that. It's
"victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the child alone. I do
not think that a mother who purposely keeps a child from the father deserves
a flipping penny whe she finally proves paternity. IF she is doing because
of abuse, she needs to PROVE it!! But the system doesn't care about
anything except the almighty dollar. To heck with a child's need to have 2
parents--only money matters.

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin" wrote in
message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpcnvok@4ax .com...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation like that.
(And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you would *never*
behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John, I would
like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok for a woman
to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12 years have
passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back support? Do
you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that child a father
for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and cared for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her something? Even if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80 cents an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE of the hugs
and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the firts day of schools,
the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and wrestling matches and
dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the other wonderful growing up
memories that dad's and kids share, then and only then should he pay
her "child support" for all the years she stole from him and his
child. If SHE made the unilateral decision to be a single parent for
12 years (while keeping all the wonders of the child's growing and
development for herself), she should be not only willing, but
obligated, to pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn for you
for 5 years, but only did it while you were at work, and never told
you he was doing it, would you be willing to fork over several
thousand dollars when he demanded it at the end of 5 years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or spouses to
totally agree with you. To make my point, if you gave your friend a
lawnmower and he broke it while doing your lawn.... should YOU have to
pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men should be
handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and so was I.
Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without informing
the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years of back child
support plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do that. because some men
have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known some mothers
who have abused their children--does that mean that it is ok with you
that a father could take his child and run off with the child, and 12
years later demand 12 years of back child support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30 years, I
finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my life. I WAS an
abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by her. My mother
doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to keep me away from my
father all those years and deprive me of having him in my formative
years. ( doesn't matter, come to find out I was always like him even when
he wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were generalizing in your post
so I retorted doing the same. I don't totally disagree with you but I
don't totally agree either. There are exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that. It's
"victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the child alone. I
do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a child from the father
deserves a flipping penny whe she finally proves paternity. IF she is
doing because of abuse, she needs to PROVE it!! But the system doesn't
care about anything except the almighty dollar. To heck with a child's
need to have 2 parents--only money matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know, but it's
the truth. Money is the most important thing to most ppl anymore. Not
values.. and certainly not morals.

On Jul 16, 10:51 am, "Chris" wrote:
"John Larkin" wrote in message

...

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 23:19:35 -0700, "
wrote:

Yeah. You read that right. He drove all the way from Arizona to Ukiah
in California and shot the succubus in the head. And then he walked
next door to the courthouse and surrendered. You gotta hand it to
him. There's only so much abuse a man can take before reacting. And
this is the kind of man that pushes back, violently.

So he'll spend the rest of his life with another guy in a tiny
bunk-bed prison cell, instead of being out and economizing, or even
running away to Brazil and starting over there. That doesn't sound
like a sensible reaction to me.

It does to someone who believes in erasing wicked people.



John

HE SHOULD HAVE KEPT HIS DICK IN HIS PANTS! OR AT BEST IF HE DIDN'T
WANT KIDS GET A VASECTOMY. BUT NOW BECAUSE HE COULD NOT CONTROL HIS
NEEDS TO GET LAID, A WOMEN IS DEAD AND A CHILD IS PARENTLESS! YOU CALL
THIS A SENSIBLE REACTION? FREAK!

"April" wrote in message
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"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
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"John Larkin" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin" wrote in
message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpcnvok@4a x.com...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation like
that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you would
*never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John, I would
like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok for a
woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12 years have
passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back support? Do
you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that child a
father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and cared
for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her something? Even if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80 cents an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE of the
hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the firts day of
schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and wrestling matches and
dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the other wonderful growing up
memories that dad's and kids share, then and only then should he pay
her "child support" for all the years she stole from him and his
child. If SHE made the unilateral decision to be a single parent for
12 years (while keeping all the wonders of the child's growing and
development for herself), she should be not only willing, but
obligated, to pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn for you
for 5 years, but only did it while you were at work, and never told
you he was doing it, would you be willing to fork over several
thousand dollars when he demanded it at the end of 5 years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or spouses to
totally agree with you. To make my point, if you gave your friend a
lawnmower and he broke it while doing your lawn.... should YOU have to
pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men should be
handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and so was I.
Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without
informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years of back
child support plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do that. because
some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known some mothers
who have abused their children--does that mean that it is ok with you
that a father could take his child and run off with the child, and 12
years later demand 12 years of back child support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30 years, I
finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my life. I WAS an
abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by her. My mother
doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to keep me away from my
father all those years and deprive me of having him in my formative
years. ( doesn't matter, come to find out I was always like him even
when he wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were generalizing in your
post so I retorted doing the same. I don't totally disagree with you
but I don't totally agree either. There are exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that. It's
"victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the child alone. I
do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a child from the father
deserves a flipping penny whe she finally proves paternity. IF she is
doing because of abuse, she needs to PROVE it!! But the system doesn't
care about anything except the almighty dollar. To heck with a child's
need to have 2 parents--only money matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know, but it's
the truth. Money is the most important thing to most ppl anymore. Not
values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is any more
important than mine or any other individual's when it comes to the child
support system. Do you, personally, think that a woman should be able to
have a child without informing the father, raise that child for 12 years,
then demand 12 years of back child support and ongoing support? (Barring
any sort of abuse, of course) Do you think this is right?

"timley" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 16, 10:51 am, "Chris" wrote:
"John Larkin" wrote in
message

...

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 23:19:35 -0700, "
wrote:

Yeah. You read that right. He drove all the way from Arizona to Ukiah
in California and shot the succubus in the head. And then he walked
next door to the courthouse and surrendered. You gotta hand it to
him. There's only so much abuse a man can take before reacting. And
this is the kind of man that pushes back, violently.

So he'll spend the rest of his life with another guy in a tiny
bunk-bed prison cell, instead of being out and economizing, or even
running away to Brazil and starting over there. That doesn't sound
like a sensible reaction to me.

It does to someone who believes in erasing wicked people.



John

HE SHOULD HAVE KEPT HIS DICK IN HIS PANTS! OR AT BEST IF HE DIDN'T
WANT KIDS GET A VASECTOMY. BUT NOW BECAUSE HE COULD NOT CONTROL HIS
NEEDS TO GET LAID, A WOMEN IS DEAD AND A CHILD IS PARENTLESS! YOU CALL
THIS A SENSIBLE REACTION? FREAK!

Of course he should not have killed her!! That is outrageous!! But do you
think it was ok for her to keep his child from him for all those years, and
not demand child support until after the child was an adult?

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin" wrote in
message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpcnvok@4 ax.com...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation like
that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you would
*never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John, I would
like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok for a
woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12 years have
passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back support?
Do you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that child a
father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and cared
for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her something? Even
if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80 cents an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE of the
hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the firts day of
schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and wrestling matches and
dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the other wonderful growing up
memories that dad's and kids share, then and only then should he pay
her "child support" for all the years she stole from him and his
child. If SHE made the unilateral decision to be a single parent for
12 years (while keeping all the wonders of the child's growing and
development for herself), she should be not only willing, but
obligated, to pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn for you
for 5 years, but only did it while you were at work, and never told
you he was doing it, would you be willing to fork over several
thousand dollars when he demanded it at the end of 5 years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or spouses to
totally agree with you. To make my point, if you gave your friend a
lawnmower and he broke it while doing your lawn.... should YOU have
to pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men should be
handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and so was I.
Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without
informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years of back
child support plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do that. because
some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known some
mothers who have abused their children--does that mean that it is ok
with you that a father could take his child and run off with the
child, and 12 years later demand 12 years of back child support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30 years, I
finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my life. I WAS an
abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by her. My mother
doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to keep me away from my
father all those years and deprive me of having him in my formative
years. ( doesn't matter, come to find out I was always like him even
when he wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were generalizing in
your post so I retorted doing the same. I don't totally disagree with
you but I don't totally agree either. There are exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that. It's
"victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the child alone. I
do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a child from the father
deserves a flipping penny whe she finally proves paternity. IF she is
doing because of abuse, she needs to PROVE it!! But the system doesn't
care about anything except the almighty dollar. To heck with a child's
need to have 2 parents--only money matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know, but it's
the truth. Money is the most important thing to most ppl anymore. Not
values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is any more
important than mine or any other individual's when it comes to the child
support system. Do you, personally, think that a woman should be able to
have a child without informing the father, raise that child for 12 years,
then demand 12 years of back child support and ongoing support? (Barring
any sort of abuse, of course) Do you think this is right?


**No I don't. As I said it was her choice to keep the father away from the
child not his. Whay should he have to pay for her choice? Now, if the
mother is prepared to allow the father visitation and allow him to get to
know his child. I think from that point on out he should pay child support.
Hard to pay for something you didn't even know you had.

"April" wrote in message
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"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin" wrote
in message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpcnvok@ 4ax.com...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation like
that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you would
*never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John, I would
like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok for a
woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12 years
have passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back support?
Do you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that child a
father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and cared
for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her something? Even
if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80 cents an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE of the
hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the firts day of
schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and wrestling matches and
dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the other wonderful growing up
memories that dad's and kids share, then and only then should he
pay her "child support" for all the years she stole from him and
his child. If SHE made the unilateral decision to be a single
parent for 12 years (while keeping all the wonders of the child's
growing and development for herself), she should be not only
willing, but obligated, to pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn for you
for 5 years, but only did it while you were at work, and never told
you he was doing it, would you be willing to fork over several
thousand dollars when he demanded it at the end of 5 years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or spouses to
totally agree with you. To make my point, if you gave your friend a
lawnmower and he broke it while doing your lawn.... should YOU have
to pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men should be
handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and so was
I. Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without
informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years of back
child support plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do that. because
some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known some
mothers who have abused their children--does that mean that it is ok
with you that a father could take his child and run off with the
child, and 12 years later demand 12 years of back child support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30 years, I
finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my life. I WAS
an abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by her. My
mother doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to keep me away
from my father all those years and deprive me of having him in my
formative years. ( doesn't matter, come to find out I was always like
him even when he wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were
generalizing in your post so I retorted doing the same. I don't
totally disagree with you but I don't totally agree either. There are
exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that. It's
"victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the child alone.
I do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a child from the
father deserves a flipping penny whe she finally proves paternity. IF
she is doing because of abuse, she needs to PROVE it!! But the system
doesn't care about anything except the almighty dollar. To heck with a
child's need to have 2 parents--only money matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know, but
it's the truth. Money is the most important thing to most ppl anymore.
Not values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is any more
important than mine or any other individual's when it comes to the child
support system. Do you, personally, think that a woman should be able to
have a child without informing the father, raise that child for 12 years,
then demand 12 years of back child support and ongoing support? (Barring
any sort of abuse, of course) Do you think this is right?


**No I don't. As I said it was her choice to keep the father away from
the child not his. Whay should he have to pay for her choice? Now, if
the mother is prepared to allow the father visitation and allow him to get
to know his child. I think from that point on out he should pay child
support. Hard to pay for something you didn't even know you had.

Yes, that's my take on it also. Some places, however, still charge a man
back to the birth of the child, no matter what. Other places have
recognized the unfairness of using a man as a savings account without his
knowledge, and limit the amount of time they charge for. Some have refused
to charge any arrearages at all in such situations.

From your experience growing up without your father, I can see that you
realize first hand how important it is for a child to have his/ father in
his/her life. I wish more people understood that money will never replace a
father. Nor can the hole in the father's heart be healed by telling him
"but you get to pay for all the time you missed."

"teachrmama" wrote in message
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"teachrmama" wrote in message
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"April" wrote in message
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"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

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...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
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"John Larkin" wrote
in message ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin" wrote
in message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpcnvok @4ax.com...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation like
that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you would
*never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John, I
would like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok for a
woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12 years
have passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back support?
Do you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that child a
father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and cared
for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her something? Even
if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80 cents
an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE of the
hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the firts day of
schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and wrestling matches and
dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the other wonderful growing up
memories that dad's and kids share, then and only then should he
pay her "child support" for all the years she stole from him and
his child. If SHE made the unilateral decision to be a single
parent for 12 years (while keeping all the wonders of the child's
growing and development for herself), she should be not only
willing, but obligated, to pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn for
you for 5 years, but only did it while you were at work, and never
told you he was doing it, would you be willing to fork over
several thousand dollars when he demanded it at the end of 5
years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or spouses
to totally agree with you. To make my point, if you gave your
friend a lawnmower and he broke it while doing your lawn.... should
YOU have to pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men should be
handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and so was
I. Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without
informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years of
back child support plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do that.
because some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known some
mothers who have abused their children--does that mean that it is ok
with you that a father could take his child and run off with the
child, and 12 years later demand 12 years of back child support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30 years, I
finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my life. I WAS
an abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by her. My
mother doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to keep me away
from my father all those years and deprive me of having him in my
formative years. ( doesn't matter, come to find out I was always like
him even when he wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were
generalizing in your post so I retorted doing the same. I don't
totally disagree with you but I don't totally agree either. There
are exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that. It's
"victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the child alone.
I do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a child from the
father deserves a flipping penny whe she finally proves paternity. IF
she is doing because of abuse, she needs to PROVE it!! But the system
doesn't care about anything except the almighty dollar. To heck with
a child's need to have 2 parents--only money matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know, but
it's the truth. Money is the most important thing to most ppl anymore.
Not values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is any more
important than mine or any other individual's when it comes to the child
support system. Do you, personally, think that a woman should be able
to have a child without informing the father, raise that child for 12
years, then demand 12 years of back child support and ongoing support?
(Barring any sort of abuse, of course) Do you think this is right?


**No I don't. As I said it was her choice to keep the father away from
the child not his. Whay should he have to pay for her choice? Now, if
the mother is prepared to allow the father visitation and allow him to
get to know his child. I think from that point on out he should pay
child support. Hard to pay for something you didn't even know you had.

Yes, that's my take on it also. Some places, however, still charge a man
back to the birth of the child, no matter what. Other places have
recognized the unfairness of using a man as a savings account without his
knowledge, and limit the amount of time they charge for. Some have
refused to charge any arrearages at all in such situations.

From your experience growing up without your father, I can see that you
realize first hand how important it is for a child to have his/ father in
his/her life. I wish more people understood that money will never replace
a father. Nor can the hole in the father's heart be healed by telling him
"but you get to pay for all the time you missed."

** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to me and was
starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't beat on a 1 1/2 year
old because he won't stop crying because he doesn't want a nap. He had
anxiety issues and was being medicated for about a month. Then he quit. He
promised month after month to go back but it never happened. AFter 3 months
State troppers knock on my door because my husband was caught on
surveillance cameras stealing over 1200.00 for his job.( he worked retail).
I couldn't handle anymore. I gave him an easy choice. He could forego
paying support by just signing him totally over to me. He refused. He paid
child support. He couldn't keep a job,and was constantly behind on his
payments. In over 4 years, he never once tried to see his son yet would
tell me that the name is what's important ( mind you the child knows nothing
about the family name since his father never saw him) and that he still
loves him. I never will understand my ex-husbands philosophy on all of this.
But Alas, I have remarried and Next month we all go downtown to swear in
front of the judge that my husband is adopting my son. his father finally..
(after 7 years) realizes that our son is better off having a father who does
things with him and takes care of him. So I guess my story DOES have a
happy ending

April

"timley" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 16, 10:51 am, "Chris" wrote:
"John Larkin" wrote in
message

...

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 23:19:35 -0700, "
wrote:

Yeah. You read that right. He drove all the way from Arizona to Ukiah
in California and shot the succubus in the head. And then he walked
next door to the courthouse and surrendered. You gotta hand it to
him. There's only so much abuse a man can take before reacting. And
this is the kind of man that pushes back, violently.

So he'll spend the rest of his life with another guy in a tiny
bunk-bed prison cell, instead of being out and economizing, or even
running away to Brazil and starting over there. That doesn't sound
like a sensible reaction to me.

It does to someone who believes in erasing wicked people.



John

HE SHOULD HAVE KEPT HIS DICK IN HIS PANTS! OR AT BEST IF HE DIDN'T
WANT KIDS GET A VASECTOMY. BUT NOW BECAUSE HE COULD NOT CONTROL HIS
NEEDS TO GET LAID, A WOMEN IS DEAD AND A CHILD IS PARENTLESS! YOU CALL
THIS A SENSIBLE REACTION?

I call it consequences of her wicked behavior.

FREAK!

New word or favorite word?

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote
in message ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin" wrote
in message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpcnvok @4ax.com...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation like
that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you would
*never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John, I
would like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok for a
woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12 years
have passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back support?
Do you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that child a
father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and cared
for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her something? Even
if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80 cents
an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE of the
hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the firts day of
schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and wrestling matches and
dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the other wonderful growing up
memories that dad's and kids share, then and only then should he
pay her "child support" for all the years she stole from him and
his child. If SHE made the unilateral decision to be a single
parent for 12 years (while keeping all the wonders of the child's
growing and development for herself), she should be not only
willing, but obligated, to pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn for
you for 5 years, but only did it while you were at work, and never
told you he was doing it, would you be willing to fork over
several thousand dollars when he demanded it at the end of 5
years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or spouses
to totally agree with you. To make my point, if you gave your
friend a lawnmower and he broke it while doing your lawn.... should
YOU have to pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men should be
handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and so was
I. Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without
informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years of
back child support plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do that.
because some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known some
mothers who have abused their children--does that mean that it is ok
with you that a father could take his child and run off with the
child, and 12 years later demand 12 years of back child support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30 years, I
finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my life. I WAS
an abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by her. My
mother doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to keep me away
from my father all those years and deprive me of having him in my
formative years. ( doesn't matter, come to find out I was always like
him even when he wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were
generalizing in your post so I retorted doing the same. I don't
totally disagree with you but I don't totally agree either. There
are exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that. It's
"victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the child alone.
I do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a child from the
father deserves a flipping penny whe she finally proves paternity. IF
she is doing because of abuse, she needs to PROVE it!! But the system
doesn't care about anything except the almighty dollar. To heck with
a child's need to have 2 parents--only money matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know, but
it's the truth. Money is the most important thing to most ppl anymore.
Not values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is any more
important than mine or any other individual's when it comes to the child
support system. Do you, personally, think that a woman should be able
to have a child without informing the father, raise that child for 12
years, then demand 12 years of back child support and ongoing support?
(Barring any sort of abuse, of course) Do you think this is right?


**No I don't. As I said it was her choice to keep the father away from
the child not his. Whay should he have to pay for her choice? Now, if
the mother is prepared to allow the father visitation and allow him to
get to know his child. I think from that point on out he should pay
child support. Hard to pay for something you didn't even know you had.

Yes, that's my take on it also. Some places, however, still charge a man
back to the birth of the child, no matter what. Other places have
recognized the unfairness of using a man as a savings account without his
knowledge, and limit the amount of time they charge for. Some have
refused to charge any arrearages at all in such situations.

My state treats retroactive CS differently for never married parents versus
married/separated/divorced parents. The court has no authority to set
retroactive CS during a marriage dissolution and can only provide for the
future care and maintenance of a child. But in never married cases the
court has the authority to set past and future CS as well as order payments
for pre-natal, childbirth, and post-natal care of a child.