dyslexic child? (long)

There is a child in DS's first grade class who is a bit behind. His mother
has always contended that it was because she didn't send him to preschool.

She DID him to preschool two days a week beginning January of his
kindergarten year, which gives him about half a year of part-time preschool
before school started. It's not as much preschool as other kids have had
and he was the youngest child in the class, only 4 1/2 at the start of the
school year.

I've always thought he was behind because of the lack of experience in
school and the fact that he was 4 1/2 in a class of many redshirted kids,
the oldest being nearly two years older than he.

I thought he just wasn't ready to learn the alphabet. He had such
difficulty learning the letters and numbers and even just differentiating
them. I remember teaching him separately from the class in school. I'd
show him flash cards, just a few at a time. I'd show him three cards,
which he'd miss. As I showed him, I'd tell him the answer. I'd go through
maybe only three cards over and over and he just couldn't remember them.

This child has made progress. He is the hardest worker I've ever seen. I
have such respect for him. However, he still is having difficulty.

The thing is, I'm beginning to suspect he is having more trouble than just
being the youngest in class and lacking in school experience.

1) His mother said he never had any interest in letters like other
children. He has great difficulty reading anything other than sight words
that he struggled very hard to learn. When we get to new words, he cannot
or will not sound them out. If he guesses, it is completely wrong. He
does not learn new sight words easily. If I tell him what a word is on one
page, he does not recognize it on the next page. He is exhausted when we
are done reading and he cannot remember what he read.

2) He does not write normally. All his letters are formed incorrectly.
Since it was such a struggle to get him to learn the alphabet, I wonder if
they just accepted anything looking close to the proper letter and just not
corrected him or if he just can't get it.

3) He has very immature speech. He sounds like DD, who's 3 yo. The r's
sound like w's, etc. His mother thinks it's because they speak another
language at home. I know lots of bilingual kids and they are not like
that. They may have accents, not immature speech.

4) He can memorize the memory challenges only with great difficulty. I
worked with him to memorize one which DS (4 months older than this child)
memorized with just a few repetitions. We went over the title, author and
the first two lines over and over. He could not get it despite going over
them over and over. I could tell he was concentrating very hard and was
exhausted. We had to stop.

5) He has difficulty following instructions. During a spelling test, he'd
get the word wrong, I told him how to spell it at a speed I'm used to
telling DS. He did not get it. I told him more slowly. He kept mixing up
the letters, skipping letters, etc. He can't hear what I say and remember
it. I have to tell him one letter, wait for him to write it, then go to
the next letter.

My guess is this child is dyslexic. I have absolutely no training in this
area, it's just my hunch. I wonder if anyone here knows about dyslexia.
If it's not dyslexia, does anyone have a guess as to what it is? I really
want to help this child.

This child doesn't belong in the class that he's in, because it proceeds
too rapidly. His mother wants her children on this track knowing that they
struggle because it is perceived as the best track. It is not the best
track for her children because they are struggling far too much, but that
is an opinion I keep to myself.

I don't want to offend the mom in any way by suggesting her child has a
problem. At the very least, I believe he has some sort of learning
disability, but I doubt she'd take to that suggestion kindly. She believes
labeling them as English learners puts them on the wrong track, so she lied
about their exposure to English and said this child speaks only English at
home. I don't think she'd want her children labeled with a disability and
tracked into a slower curriculum. Any suggestions there?

Can I clarify - are you involved with this in a professional capacity,
or is it just that you know him through your children being in the same
class? I'm kind of confused as to where the bit with you teaching him
fits in.


All the best,

Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

"toypup" wrote in message
.. .
There is a child in DS's first grade class who is a bit behind. His
mother
has always contended that it was because she didn't send him to preschool.

snip
1) His mother said he never had any interest in letters like other
children. He has great difficulty reading anything other than sight words
that he struggled very hard to learn. When we get to new words, he cannot
or will not sound them out. If he guesses, it is completely wrong. He
does not learn new sight words easily. If I tell him what a word is on
one
page, he does not recognize it on the next page. He is exhausted when we
are done reading and he cannot remember what he read.

I'm not sure if this is helpful or not.
I was a good reader. I read Lord of the Rings at 6yo. However I didn't get
phonics until part way though LofR. I read by sight. Even today, if there's
a name I don't know how to pronounce in a book I can struggle to read it and
just pass over the word thinking "that person". It can get me confused if
there are several people whose name's I can't pronounce.
I suspect I am mildly dyslexic. I can't spell and I can get confused between
words. I also have right/left hand confusion and ambidexterity which goes
with some types of dyslexicness. However I was never diagnosed because I
wasn't very bad.
#1 and #2 learn new sight words easily. However I wouldn't say that they
always know it on the next (or even further down) page. It may take two or
three encounters before they know it. If they read a book that is a little
beyond their reading ability they can be exhausted at the end. I noticed
this particularly when they were first learning. If he's exhausted then I'm
not surprised it can't remember what he's read.
If you have any say, then I'd suggest that he reads shorter books. You may
have to make your own up. Four pages with a sentence on each can be enough
when they're first learning. You can have something like.
Here is insert his name.
name and a book.
name likes the book.
name likes the book and I like name.

Then you can ask him things like "What does name have? Does he like the
book?
You can use photos or pictures to illustrate the book.
2) He does not write normally. All his letters are formed incorrectly.
Since it was such a struggle to get him to learn the alphabet, I wonder if
they just accepted anything looking close to the proper letter and just
not
corrected him or if he just can't get it.

When #1 first learnt to write she formed the letters as she saw them. For
example a "d" was a circle with a line through it in the right place. She
had to relearn how to do letters properly the next year. It was a lot of
effort to relearn how to write and a lot slower at first. She would have
prefered not to learn how to do it properly.
#2 forms her letter much better but she has one or two habits (like writing
"a" and "o" going clockwise rather than anticlockwise) which she forgets
unless you remind her every time. I think it's really hard at that age to
reform your letters.

3) He has very immature speech. He sounds like DD, who's 3 yo. The r's
sound like w's, etc. His mother thinks it's because they speak another
language at home. I know lots of bilingual kids and they are not like
that. They may have accents, not immature speech.

I agree, but it probably doesn't help. Does she speak down to him?

4) He can memorize the memory challenges only with great difficulty. I
worked with him to memorize one which DS (4 months older than this child)
memorized with just a few repetitions. We went over the title, author and
the first two lines over and over. He could not get it despite going over
them over and over. I could tell he was concentrating very hard and was
exhausted. We had to stop.

Some children don't memorise easily. I'm not sure it would have anything to
do with being dyslexic though.

5) He has difficulty following instructions. During a spelling test,
he'd
get the word wrong, I told him how to spell it at a speed I'm used to
telling DS. He did not get it. I told him more slowly. He kept mixing
up
the letters, skipping letters, etc. He can't hear what I say and remember
it. I have to tell him one letter, wait for him to write it, then go to
the next letter.

Is it just spelling instructions or generally?
If it's generally then are you sure he can hear well? If he's concentrating
very hard on hearing he will get exhausted and struggle on a lot of things
here.
In my experience working with #1's form last year(age 5-6yo, second year at
school) it is more usual at that age to do one letter at a time. A lot
couldn't cope with even two letters or what you describe happens.

My guess is this child is dyslexic. I have absolutely no training in this
area, it's just my hunch. I wonder if anyone here knows about dyslexia.
If it's not dyslexia, does anyone have a guess as to what it is? I really
want to help this child.

He could be dyslexic, he could have something else, but I'd guess from what
you've said that he just isn't as bright as your ds. Perhaps you're
expecting a little bit too much based on your own experience.
A bit of extra help might bring this child on, or he may be a late
developer.

This child doesn't belong in the class that he's in, because it proceeds
too rapidly. His mother wants her children on this track knowing that
they
struggle because it is perceived as the best track. It is not the best
track for her children because they are struggling far too much, but that
is an opinion I keep to myself.

Agreed. I'd keep that to yourself, even if she asks for opinion, then I'd
phrase it very carefully.

I don't want to offend the mom in any way by suggesting her child has a
problem. At the very least, I believe he has some sort of learning
disability, but I doubt she'd take to that suggestion kindly. She
believes
labeling them as English learners puts them on the wrong track, so she
lied
about their exposure to English and said this child speaks only English at
home. I don't think she'd want her children labeled with a disability and
tracked into a slower curriculum. Any suggestions there?
I'm assuming you're asking this as a fellow parent not as a teacher. In
which case I'd leave well alone. It's not really your business what track
he's in. The teacher should pick it up and tell her. If you think that's not
going to happen then it could be worth saying something when in school to
the teacher. "I'm concerned about name because he seems to find this work
so exhausting. Am I doing something wrong?"

Debbie

In article , Sarah Vaughan says...

Can I clarify - are you involved with this in a professional capacity,
or is it just that you know him through your children being in the same
class? I'm kind of confused as to where the bit with you teaching him
fits in.


All the best,

Sarah

Yep - seems the best course of action would be to share the observations with
the teacher, and let him or her do the job regarding interfacing with the
parents about this.

Banty

If he's in a public school, the parent can request that he be tested-and the
school has to act on it within 90 days. (although acting can be sending a
letter stating that for now, the child is not showing signs that testing is
needed) I'm kind of surprised that he hasn't been screened for speech
already. The R/W reversal can persist until age 6 normally, so by itself
isn't a concern in a old 5 yr old/young 6 yr old, but the schools I've
taught at pretty much screen all children for speech on entering
kindergarten.

In 1st grade, he's unlikely to be far enough behind to automatically trigger
testing yet. The current model used in most places is to try intervention
first, and it sounds like he's already getting tutoring with you. Usually
2nd grade is where most LDs are caught.

On Oct 30, 9:44?am, "Donna Metler" wrote:
If he's in a public school, the parent can request that he be tested-and the
school has to act on it within 90 days. (although acting can be sending a
letter stating that for now, the child is not showing signs that testing is
needed) I'm kind of surprised that he hasn't been screened for speech
already. The R/W reversal can persist until age 6 normally, so by itself
isn't a concern in a old 5 yr old/young 6 yr old, but the schools I've
taught at pretty much screen all children for speech on entering
kindergarten.

In 1st grade, he's unlikely to be far enough behind to automatically trigger
testing yet. The current model used in most places is to try intervention
first, and it sounds like he's already getting tutoring with you. Usually
2nd grade is where most LDs are caught.

I remember a first-grade teaching during orientation night to not
panic if all of a sudden things the child could do were to become
suddenly difficult, as it is common in first grade for a growth spurt
to turn the brain's attention on the spurt rather than reading,
writing, etc.

It sounds like the child may need some evaluation and that it goes
beyond suspected dyslexia to me. If you've been hired by the family as
a tutor, then I don't see the harm in sharing your observations. You
would just need to be prepared to approach it as delicately as
possible in a way that makes a parent want to find a solution rather
than making them defensive, such as sharing the information such as
the above first and then stating it may warrant further testing to see
if that were the difference, BUT either way, you should brace yourself
for the type of parent who may want to find another tutor as a result.
They just exist. If you were brought in by the child's primary
teacher, however, then all you should do is share your concerns with
the teacher and let the teacher handle it.

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:20:09 +0000, Sarah Vaughan wrote:

Can I clarify - are you involved with this in a professional capacity,
or is it just that you know him through your children being in the same
class? I'm kind of confused as to where the bit with you teaching him
fits in.

He was in DS's kindergarten class. I volunteered in class and tutored the
children there privately as the class was in session and now I have
volunteered to tutor him at home just because I am very fond of him and he
would not get tutoring any other way.

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:14:17 GMT, Welches wrote:


If you have any say, then I'd suggest that he reads shorter books. You may
have to make your own up. Four pages with a sentence on each can be enough
when they're first learning. You can have something like.
Here is insert his name.
name and a book.
name likes the book.
name likes the book and I like name.

I don't have any say in what he reads at school. He was in one of the
slower reading groups last year and I assume it's the same this year. The
class was working on book reports, which was very difficult for him.

Right now, we are off track. I am just working to catch him up at bit.
The books I choose will be easier, one sentence per page.

3) He has very immature speech. He sounds like DD, who's 3 yo. The r's
sound like w's, etc. His mother thinks it's because they speak another
language at home. I know lots of bilingual kids and they are not like
that. They may have accents, not immature speech.

I agree, but it probably doesn't help. Does she speak down to him?

His mother does not speak down to him. She speaks with an accent. I do
not believe he has an foreign accent. He sounds American, just very young.

Some children don't memorise easily. I'm not sure it would have anything to
do with being dyslexic though.


I heard memorization was difficult for some dyslexic children.

Is it just spelling instructions or generally?

At the time, it was spelling instructions. DS did have hearing problems,
that presented as problems following directions so I will look out for
signs of that. That thought also crossed my mind.


He could be dyslexic, he could have something else, but I'd guess from what
you've said that he just isn't as bright as your ds.

The problem is that he is the absolute slowest in the class. All the
parents know it (the volunteer rate is very high, so they all see what
happens in the class; I have not discussed anything with them, but I hear
them gossip amongst themselves). The mom knows her child is the slowest
int the class and is not getting it like other children. She was
entertaining the idea of holding him back last year.

Perhaps you're
expecting a little bit too much based on your own experience.
A bit of extra help might bring this child on, or he may be a late
developer.

It is possible that he is a late developer. The problem is that he will be
so behind by the time he develops that he will have great difficulty
catching up.

I'm assuming you're asking this as a fellow parent not as a teacher. In
which case I'd leave well alone. It's not really your business what track
he's in. The teacher should pick it up and tell her. If you think that's not
going to happen then it could be worth saying something when in school to
the teacher. "I'm concerned about name because he seems to find this work
so exhausting. Am I doing something wrong?"

DS was in his class last year, but they are in separate classes this year.
I don't know his teacher.

It's just so heartbreaking to see this child work so hard. He deserves it
like no one else to be doing better.

In article , toypup says...

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:20:09 +0000, Sarah Vaughan wrote:

Can I clarify - are you involved with this in a professional capacity,
or is it just that you know him through your children being in the same
class? I'm kind of confused as to where the bit with you teaching him
fits in.

He was in DS's kindergarten class. I volunteered in class and tutored the
children there privately as the class was in session and now I have
volunteered to tutor him at home just because I am very fond of him and he
would not get tutoring any other way.

If he's in the same class with your DS now (as I recall...), I'd bring up the
concerns with their teacher. He or she has the training and it would be his or
her place to talk to the parents.

From what you said, I'd suspect a problem, too. But as a tutor, you're there to
help.

Banty

On Oct 30, 10:19?am, toypup wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:20:09 +0000, Sarah Vaughan wrote:
Can I clarify - are you involved with this in a professional capacity,
or is it just that you know him through your children being in the same
class? I'm kind of confused as to where the bit with you teaching him
fits in.

He was in DS's kindergarten class. I volunteered in class and tutored the
children there privately as the class was in session and now I have
volunteered to tutor him at home just because I am very fond of him and he
would not get tutoring any other way.

That's really thoughtful and kind of you. The world needs more people
like that for certain!