Suggestions wanted getting children to listen the FIRST time

I would be interested in suggestions from folks on here as to what's worked
for your children in terms of gettnig them to listen the first time when
asked to do something. I am sure my wife and I have "trained" ours (6 1/2
year old son; 4 year old daughter) NOT to listen because of our lack of
follow-through. Needless to say, we both want those days to be gone.

So let's hear those suggestions. Should we: Hotsauce them? Spank them?
Ground them? Sit them in a corner? Or just the simplest thing: Get up and
lead them through the task step by step until they get the message?

TIA

Aaron

P.S. We tried the hotsaucing thing once for sassing back about three months
ago. That problem has not presented itself again since, we both are
thankful for, on both sides of the coin considering the outcome of the first
punishment.

I have a six year old, too. I wouldn't hotsauce them, spank them, ground
them, sit them in a corner, etc. You will just make things worse for
yourself and your child, plus, they will just begin to secretly dislike you
(remember how you felt when your parent did this to you as a kid! Don't
insult your child by justifying your parents' abusive actions towards you as
a kid.) I always ask my daughter nicely for whatever it is I'm asking and
she does whatever it is (most of the time). If she doesn't, I'll ask what
the problem is, talk to her about it and explain to her why what needs to be
done needs to be done, etc. Whenever she asks me to do something, I always
respond positively, be it doing whatever it is she needs, or if it's not
possible, offering up another solution to meet whatever need she is looking
for. Tit for tat.
This has to start from day one, though. If not, then there will be a
problem. Depending upon how things have been handled in the past will give
you a clue as to why and how things are happening now (and in the future).

Susan
"ajpdla" wrote in message
...
I would be interested in suggestions from folks on here as to what's
worked
for your children in terms of gettnig them to listen the first time when
asked to do something. I am sure my wife and I have "trained" ours (6 1/2
year old son; 4 year old daughter) NOT to listen because of our lack of
follow-through. Needless to say, we both want those days to be gone.

So let's hear those suggestions. Should we: Hotsauce them? Spank them?
Ground them? Sit them in a corner? Or just the simplest thing: Get up
and
lead them through the task step by step until they get the message?

TIA

Aaron

P.S. We tried the hotsaucing thing once for sassing back about three
months
ago. That problem has not presented itself again since, we both are
thankful for, on both sides of the coin considering the outcome of the
first
punishment.

I didn't "train" my children, I parented them. I didn't expect them to
"listen the first time when asked to do something" because I wanted them
to be independent thinkers.

I never hot-sauced, spanked, grounded, or sat them in a corner. I
didn't believe in punishment, shame, and humiliation. I believed in
teaching.

My girls are now 21 and 25, and I look at them, and I look at their
lives, and I am so glad I never resorted to what you suggest in this post.

LaVonne



ajpdla wrote:

I would be interested in suggestions from folks on here as to what's worked
for your children in terms of gettnig them to listen the first time when
asked to do something. I am sure my wife and I have "trained" ours (6 1/2
year old son; 4 year old daughter) NOT to listen because of our lack of
follow-through. Needless to say, we both want those days to be gone.

So let's hear those suggestions. Should we: Hotsauce them? Spank them?
Ground them? Sit them in a corner? Or just the simplest thing: Get up and
lead them through the task step by step until they get the message?

TIA

Aaron

P.S. We tried the hotsaucing thing once for sassing back about three months
ago. That problem has not presented itself again since, we both are
thankful for, on both sides of the coin considering the outcome of the first
punishment.

"Sue Larson" wrote in message
...
(remember how you felt when your parent did this to you as a kid!)

Actually, no, I don't. Not that I've blocked it out; I just don't remember.

This has to start from day one, though. If not, then there will be a
problem. Depending upon how things have been handled in the past will give
you a clue as to why and how things are happening now (and in the future).

Well, while I DO thank you for your experiences as you have related them,
I'm still left to wonder how to approach MY situation. If you are saying I
can get a second Day One (and I'm sure I can), then we're square. But, I
feel that you've really just repeated what I've already said, just in
different words. Thanks, anyway.

Aaron

"ajpdla" wrote in message
...
I would be interested in suggestions from folks on here as to what's
worked
for your children in terms of gettnig them to listen the first time when
asked to do something. I am sure my wife and I have "trained" ours (6
1/2
year old son; 4 year old daughter) NOT to listen because of our lack of
follow-through. Needless to say, we both want those days to be gone.

So let's hear those suggestions. Should we: Hotsauce them? Spank them?
Ground them? Sit them in a corner? Or just the simplest thing: Get up
and
lead them through the task step by step until they get the message?

"Carlson LaVonne" wrote in message
...
I didn't "train" my children, I parented them. I didn't expect them to
"listen the first time when asked to do something" because I wanted them to
be independent thinkers.

I never hot-sauced, spanked, grounded, or sat them in a corner. I didn't
believe in punishment, shame, and humiliation. I believed in teaching.

My girls are now 21 and 25, and I look at them, and I look at their lives,
and I am so glad I never resorted to what you suggest in this post.

LaVonne

Good for you. You might be a better parent than I am, I think.

Aaron

P.S. You did train them, though. Classically.

ajpdla wrote:

I would be interested in suggestions from folks on here as to what's worked
for your children in terms of gettnig them to listen the first time when
asked to do something. I am sure my wife and I have "trained" ours (6 1/2
year old son; 4 year old daughter) NOT to listen because of our lack of
follow-through. Needless to say, we both want those days to be gone.

So let's hear those suggestions. Should we: Hotsauce them? Spank them?
Ground them? Sit them in a corner? Or just the simplest thing: Get up and
lead them through the task step by step until they get the message?

TIA

Aaron
---------------------
You have entirely the wrong attitude toward children. Contemplate how
well your adult friends and colleagues would do as you said if you
treated them similarly. Not very well, would they?

Worse, even though you imagine they will be older and by then somehow
quite different, you're actions are now setting the stage for the
battles of adolescence, which you are PREDESTINED to lose, all of you
do. They do not forget your abusiveness!!

They will lie to you, not tell you anything about their lives because
of what you're doing now, and they will lay waste to your life. If
you fancy you will win that one, you're merely a fool who won't.


P.S. We tried the hotsaucing thing once for sassing back about three months
ago. That problem has not presented itself again since, we both are
thankful for, on both sides of the coin considering the outcome of the first
punishment.
--------------------------
When you're infirm and wonder why they never come to visit from where
they then live, which will be a long distance away, remember this day.

I hope your children get the chance to hotsauce your ****ing ass when
they are your "mommy and daddy", and you're peeing your geri-chair
despite being lashed in with restraints.

--
What works when wishing for friendship between you and your children,
or anyone, so that you may trust their good will, concern for you,
and friendship, the ONLY thing that works is treating them as you'd
have to treat your adult friends in order TO HAVE ANY!
Steve

I read this looking for answers to follow through.
Did ya notice that it's sorely lacking?

Whether you spank or not, following through is important.

Hoping for an attention deficit distraction to solve the
problem is just wishful thinking.

Maybe we should look at how SCHOOLS
handle such training of children?

Hand over that video game NOW or we'll taser you.

Or the three boys put in detention in the hallway
where they got HUMILIATED?

If you raise kids that don't understand consequences,
ask yourself what the TEACHERS will do with them
when they act up!

Time outs, Humiliation, ridicule, removal of perks

Some in here are such ultraliberal kooks that
even time outs are viewed as harmful??

If you want kids to emulate the childless
atheist, ultraliberal kooks, Go ahead and
raise your kids to be soft,
undisciplined and unprincipled.

If the world was covered with nerf, like
a giant rubber room, they'd fit right in.

But the world is not a big Romper Room.

What world are you preparing them for?

The one some idealist WISHES it was
or the world as it really is?

Ultraliberalism will not protect your kids
from the "spankings" that law enforcement,
employers, courts and others will impose.

If you lack the guts to teach discipline, the
world will teach it in a harsher way.

On 8 Dec 2004 13:06:17 -0800, "Greegor" wrote:

I read this looking for answers to follow through.
Did ya notice that it's sorely lacking?

What "follow through" do you feel is necessary, control freak?

Whether you spank or not, following through is important.

What "follow through" do you feel is necessary, control freak?

Hoping for an attention deficit distraction to solve the
problem is just wishful thinking.

What do you mean by "attention deficit distraction?"

Maybe we should look at how SCHOOLS
handle such training of children?

Some schools, for sure. Some are very skilled. Like some parents, and
others not, like some parents.

Hand over that video game NOW or we'll taser you.

I don't recall the teacher, the VP, or even the cop making such a
demand with that threat. Please point us to your source.

Or the three boys put in detention in the hallway
where they got HUMILIATED?

I thought it was pointless myself. What kids learn mostly from bigger
more powerful people humiliating them is to take their embarrassment
and shame out on others, over whom they have similar power. Someone
smaller, with less authority.

If you raise kids that don't understand consequences,

That is impossible, unless the child is, at birth, locked 24/7 into a
soundproof box with no interaction with the outside world until they
day die. About two days probably.

ask yourself what the TEACHERS will do with them
when they act up!

Consequence them. Why does it have to be pain based? Or humiliation
based? One very powerful way of consequencing is to simpy stand back
and let them have some natural consequences.

In fact one of the ways to most surely disrupt the learning children
are busy doing..about consequences, is to apply your consequences of
punishment. It's very disorienting, and often fools the child, very
young, into NOT noticing the true consequences from nature.

Like punch a friend and he cries, or hits you back, or isn't your
friend anymore....doesn't want to be with you. If pop steps in and
lambasts the perp kid that kid only knows that pop is a crasy ****in'
control freak of some kind that one day will 'get his' when the kid is
big enough. One way or the other.

Sadly, feelings of vengence also doesn't eleviate the confusion of the
child and especially doesn't allow the sequence of natural events to
unfold.


Time outs, Humiliation, ridicule, removal of perks

Mostly disruptive to the learning process, unless of course you wish to
produce a little soldier ready at your command to do your bidding.

Problem is they grow up, and go looking for someone to give them
commands.

Some in here are such ultraliberal kooks

Can't recall seeing any of those here. Point some out to me. Maybe they
came and went.

that
even time outs are viewed as harmful??

Actually that is very much open to question on a couple of counts. If
it disrupts natural learning, then yes, it's pointless.

Once speaking to a group of relatives attending a per service foster
and adoption parenting class about issues of mental health they asked
me about discipline, with a question just like that claim of yours.

I asked them how many had been timed out one way or another as chidren.
I think there were about 20-22 folks there. Only one didn't raise their
hand.

I asked them first why their mother put them in time out (dad's aren't
much on this one), specifically what their mother said she wanted them
to do in time out...and of course it was, "think about what have done
young lady."

We all, including me, who was put in time outs as a kid, had the same
answer. Then we explored what they actually DID while in time out.
Here's the laundry list, with mine at the very end:

1. Plotted how what I was going to do to my tattle tail little sister;

2. Swore that I'd never be so unfair to my own kid when I was a parent;

3. Thought about how I could keep from getting caught the next time;

4. Learned what is inside overstuffed sofas; (mine)

5. Learned what materials are used in making those old stucco walls
(lath, plaster, and chicken wire) behind the big chair; (mine)

6. How easy it was to hide the result until I could be a good momma's
boy, and offer to vacume the living room for her to make up for my
misdeed....0:- and get rid of the evidence. (do I have to tell you
whose?)

No, greegor, MOST of the disciplines (because most are punishment
based) don't get the results desired.

The folks asked me what would work. It's simple.

I told them to admit to the kid what the bitch really was: "Honey,
mommas tired and worn out and needs a break. How can you keep yourself
busy here near me, and will you please bring me a cold washcloth?"

Or words to that effect. Number ONE, give the child a problem to solve
that's within their capacity. Some kids will come up with, when mom
admits her REAL reason for a time out, some very creative and
thoughtful ways of being helpful.

Learning is about almost always a cooperative effort for children. The
least you can do is shut your fat stupid yap and let them learn under
your quite non-interfering supervision (you can intervene to stop
destruction and injury only), and respond actively when the child ASKS
YOU TO.

You'd be amazed what self directed learning can do. Human's are like
that. In fact most creatures are.

If you want kids to emulate the childless
atheist, ultraliberal kooks, Go ahead and
raise your kids to be soft,
undisciplined and unprincipled.

How many childless atheists do you know? Ar ethe especially vicious and
dangerous, in your mind?

Do you presume only "untraliberal kooks" promote non punitive
parenting? Personally I'm a moderate conservative...and very into fact
based decision making. I've proven conclusively, again and again, even
with children that were ****ed up by the likes of you, that my way
works and yours creates dangerous freaks that aren't fully human, but
look like it..occasionally.

As for "soft, undisciplined, and unprincipled." Well, I know about 500
now, that grew up with just such parenting and are free of crime, some
in the military fighting for your right to sit on your soft butt and
**** and moan, and most are highly principled folks.

They learned that as children, by the example of their parents who
would not attack the weaker, smaller, more vulnerable, and pretend it
was for their own good.

If the world was covered with nerf, like
a giant rubber room, they'd fit right in.

I've got a couple of "kids" myself, that don't live in or need, or want
a nerf world. Very successful at what they do. And it's not careers in
Nerfball.

But the world is not a big Romper Room.

Your wisdom, grasshopper, is one blade short of a limp noodle.

What world are you preparing them for?

The one we live in. And rather than cripple them I let them learn very
much at their own rate....and it never slowed to the kind of crap I see
most kids having to slog through, trying to figure out, or surrender
to, insane parents that are vicious little control freaks like you.

I watched my daughter, at 12, back a 6'2" asshole like you down that
had made a threat against her little brother. I had intended on
intervening myself, but the look on the man's face told me I wasn't
needed.

My son, now there's a case for you. About 6 foot himself, as gentle a
soul as you could imagine, and strong as an ox, works at construction
and takes no **** from anyone, and yet an artist of refined talent of
eye, and a couple of times a year goes out and for fun shoots heavy
automatic firearms. (we are talking fully operational military
firearms, greegor) Now there's my kinda kid.

The one some idealist WISHES it was
or the world as it really is?

Let me see now. I look at my kids and ask that question for you, and
what do I see? Well too people that have never taken a sabbatical.
Worked our farm with me, then went out in the work world and the only
time they didn't work was if they were in school fulltime. Mostly both.


Neither has moved in with someone else on "sabbatical." And as far as I
can remember, neither was the cause of a mother or father losing their
child.

Ultraliberalism will not protect your kids
from the "spankings" that law enforcement,
employers, courts and others will impose.

Funny. I am hard pressed to find among the many kids I knew, now
adults, that had any problem with any of these. Some did once get in
step daughters face, and but her hands on her, and she slapped her down
instantly. Seems the other girl's friends lied about what happened so
my step daughter had to undergo the indignity of a terry pat, but she
didn't fight back against a legal authority, and so she didn't get stun
gunned.

Now how is it our kids aren't having all these troubles you imagine.

If you lack the guts to teach discipline, the
world will teach it in a harsher way.

Funny. My kids are well aware of how the world works, and have very
rarely missed predicting it correctly. No jail time. Good jobs. Never
have stopped educating themselves. I wonder what I did wrong?

Oh, and neither have any addictive or substance abuse habits. Now isn't
that odd. No smoking, drinking, or drugging. What dull people, eh?
People with highly developed consciences.

And in fact, I had considerable success with adolescents that came to
treatment very much like you..full of negativity. They left with self
esteem, pride in beating the **** that had happened to them, refusing
to let it be their excuse, and a newfound hunger for honor. Boys can be
like that if you know how to tap that natural build in "Quest" nature
we males have. The seeking of a higher purpose. We are born with it and
it can cripple us or make us men. When are you going to get off those
crutches of yours. The CPS and "The world is out to get me" crutches?

greegor, your world view is all about negativity. It's your only theme.
You even think the little girl was out to get you...as of course AFTER
you ****ed up her life, she was, righteously.

Tell us, were you raised with this method you promote?

Or do we even have to ask?

Just look at how emotionally and intellectually crippled you are.

Kane

Greegor wrote:

I read this looking for answers to follow through.
Did ya notice that it's sorely lacking?

Whether you spank or not, following through is important.

Hoping for an attention deficit distraction to solve the
problem is just wishful thinking.

Maybe we should look at how SCHOOLS
handle such training of children?

Hand over that video game NOW or we'll taser you.
--------------------
Ain't happening.


Or the three boys put in detention in the hallway
where they got HUMILIATED?

If you raise kids that don't understand consequences,
ask yourself what the TEACHERS will do with them
when they act up!
-------------------
Nothing.


Time outs, Humiliation, ridicule, removal of perks

Some in here are such ultraliberal kooks that
even time outs are viewed as harmful??
-------------------
Time outs are abusive for non-crimes.
Disobedience is not crime.


If you want kids to emulate the childless
atheist, ultraliberal kooks, Go ahead and
raise your kids to be soft,
undisciplined and unprincipled.
--------------------
Nawh, we raise them to shock the **** out of your kids
and kick their asses.


If the world was covered with nerf, like
a giant rubber room, they'd fit right in.

But the world is not a big Romper Room.

What world are you preparing them for?

The one some idealist WISHES it was
or the world as it really is?
--------------------
You have not one ****ing idea what the world REALLY is.
You're religiously deluded.


Ultraliberalism will not protect your kids
from the "spankings" that law enforcement,
employers, courts and others will impose.
---------------------
It's illegal to physically abuse prisoners or convicts.


If you lack the guts to teach discipline, the
world will teach it in a harsher way.
----------------------
You're a moron. The world does no such thing.
Steve

Aaron,

I didn't post this to be a better parent than anyone. I oppose hitting,
hurting, shaming, or demeaning a child in the name of discipline.

And I didn't "train them classically" if you understand classical
conditioning.

LaVonne

ajpdla wrote:

"Carlson LaVonne" wrote in message
...

I didn't "train" my children, I parented them. I didn't expect them to
"listen the first time when asked to do something" because I wanted them to
be independent thinkers.

I never hot-sauced, spanked, grounded, or sat them in a corner. I didn't
believe in punishment, shame, and humiliation. I believed in teaching.

My girls are now 21 and 25, and I look at them, and I look at their lives,
and I am so glad I never resorted to what you suggest in this post.

LaVonne


Good for you. You might be a better parent than I am, I think.

Aaron

P.S. You did train them, though. Classically.