false flag operation

"0:-" wrote in message
...
Greegor wrote:
freedom wrote:
Maybe because two of those three aren't my
addresses, and I've never posted as them?

And everybody's supposed to believe that because you SAID so??
If you ARE, wouldn't you deny it?
The "shadow of doubt" in this case works against you.

There is NO WAY for you to prove that it is NOT you.

An no way for the other person to prove it's not him, stupid.


Sure there is. The forgeries intensified at one point when I was in Cuba
with NO internet access. That's proof.

"0:-" wrote in message
oups.com...

Please answer especially the double standard question. The one about
branding those that are paid for their work as questionable, dishonest
liars because it would be in their best interests to lie to improve or
keep their income, and how this would NOT apply in this case when we
have a paid consulting and someone named Dave in conflict...and YOU
wish to believe the one that appears to have NO fiduciary interest in
the issue at all.


Okay let ME answer. Yes I have such an interest. Kane - use your head
for a change, would there be ANY logic - ANY AT ALL for me to create such a
stir knowing it would discredit me and hurt my business?????? WHO would
have the greater interest to attack me and make me look like the bad guy?
ME, or somebody opposed to me like Moore and people beholding to the CPS
SYSTEM?

freedom wrote:

Of course not, because you can't prove a negative. I can, however, show
numerous instances where Ken falsely accused me of being the owner of
other
IDs, even claiming to have "proof", and the IDs turned out to belong to
someone else. And I can also show proof that Ken, himself, has a
documented history of creating ficticious identities.

Which ID's turned out to be somebody else? Documentation please Davey.
Your claims that I use MANY MANY MAN Y MANY different ID's is based and
supported ONLY by your claims. ALL of the ID's I have used have been
derivatives of my names, ie in the present case initials. My AOL mast
account was and . Similarly at one time I
had a compuserve account again using my name but NEVER posting to Usenet
from it. And I had an Earthlink account and Atlantic account both using my
own name. I have my A-Team account that has NO usenet access.

Now Moore - let's look at you. You post ONLY through Anonymous
remailers. Why? Because you have NO choice. NONE! No regular ISP would
tolerate your behavior for long. In fact many didn't. But that is only part
of the story. The rest of the story is that you have been so badly
discredited on the men's forums you never post anything other than your
constant drivel about me. 100% of your posts for the past 8 years have been
about me. Not ONE post on topic for any of the newsgroups in question.

You do a good job of bull****ting. You found willing dupes in the
Atheism group and a couple here who NEED to believe you. They will ignore
that I am only ONE of your "marks." You don't say much of your harasdsment
of Judith McLinn, Karen Anderson, Stacy Rupp-Anderson, Joe O'connor, John
Reinhagen just to name a few of the other people you harass. Of course you
don't say that you are presently pulling the same **** on your ex-wife that
you are on me. Yes, Davey, I hear about it. NOT from her, at least not
directly. I wonder IF Ron and Kane REALLY new about you how they'd feel
knowing of your previous involvement with Aryan groups while you were
stationed in North Carolina? I can only wonder what they would think if they
could read your threats to women on the net with graphic sexual violence?

Yeah Ron and Kane THAT is who you are supporting. Hope you like a racist
biggot and want to CLOLSELY identify yourself with him.

Now let me tell YOU TWO morons in on something. Moore is the real author
of that Anti-Semitic FILTH. Where do I sit? One of my life long best
friends is a Jewish Attorney in Milwaukee. My high school sweetheart was
Jewish and we'd have married if her mother hadn't stopped it. He dad was all
for it. I spent lots of time with that family. And IF you wanted to do some
research back to 1997 you'd see that the fight between Moore and I started
when he forged an Anti-Semitic rant (Jews and ovens) to a friend Joe
O'Connor. Joe is also not a racist. I was very angry at his vile
Anti-Semitism. My high school sweetheart's family lost many members in the
holocaust including her paternal grandparents. Oh and - I seriously
considered converting to Judaism if her mother would have accepted me as he
daughter's husband. They were conservative Jews. Not Orthodox but strictly
observant. A 100% Kosher home except for me.

IF you knew anything about me you might know that as a young man I
supported many civil rights causes. Marched on occasion. Look up civil
rights in Milwaukee and search for Father Jim Groppi. No you'll likely NOT
find my name anywhere, I was just a participant not a leader. But I do have
my name on a plaque in Montgomery, Alabama. David Moore does NOT!

My wife is hispanic. (Cuban) you might want to read some of Moore racist
ranting about my wife.

If the false flag operator was Ken, How could that be?

Ken has been proven to have been the author of at least some of the
forgeries in the past.

NOPE. I have only been ACCUSED by David Moore and accepeted by mindless
dupes.

However, there is that one post referenced in the URL
above, and still available in Google, which I could NOT have forged
unless
I had time travel capabilities.

You seem to be conveniently overlooking that.

What YOU are overlooking Davey, as I did, and as you hope everyone will
is that when you post a forgery, you almost never do just ONE copy. You send
out a slug of them, typically 4 or more. They appear at different times. If
you look CLOSELY at my post you see it QUOTES a specific message (and it
contains the date and time stamp) in your EXAMPLE you reference MY post and
its ITS date and time stamp, then you use the date and time stamp from a
different posting that came much later. You HOPE that nobody knows that
multiple posts from remailers are often delayed in posting to Usenet. And
you hope people miss seeing that you almost always post several of your
signature forgeries. What you count on Moore is IDIOTS who can't read
header information or understand it/

freedom wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, " krp" wrote:
freedom wrote:

Of course not, because you can't prove a negative. I can, however, show
numerous instances where Ken falsely accused me of being the owner of
other
IDs, even claiming to have "proof", and the IDs turned out to belong to
someone else. And I can also show proof that Ken, himself, has a
documented history of creating ficticious identities.

Which ID's turned out to be somebody else? Documentation please Davey.

Sure, as always I'm happy to nail your fat ass with documentation of your
lies:

http://tinyurl.com/ylunlk

This is just one example...you falsely alleged that this person was me,
when he clearly was not. This was proven when he even took your side later
in the discussion.

You've accused many people of being me, including Rob Gautier, tip@cotse,
Will Rainey, etc.


Your claims that I use MANY MANY MAN Y MANY different ID's is based and
supported ONLY by your claims. ALL of the ID's I have used have been
derivatives of my names, ie in the present case initials.

Except for , , . All
of which are proved to be you at http://www.aboutkenpangborn.com. Sorry,
Ken, but you slipped up too many times, posting AS Ken Pangborn from those
accounts. Not to mention the time you screwed up and forgot to take your
"computername" out of the headers of your Judgedredd posts Remember
when Terri nailed your fat ass on that one in front of everyone? That was
one of the stupidest things you've ever done....other than sending out that
alt.atheism forgery and forgetting what name you were sending it under!

My AOL mast
account was and .

And , which was another pretend alias...which disappeared
the same day that AOL terminated your account for abuse.
(Which you also lie about to this day.)

Similarly at one time I
had a compuserve account again using my name but NEVER posting to Usenet
from it. And I had an Earthlink account and Atlantic account both using my
own name. I have my A-Team account that has NO usenet access.

Now Moore - let's look at you. You post ONLY through Anonymous
remailers. Why? Because you have NO choice. NONE! No regular ISP would
tolerate your behavior for long.

In other words, you would frequently complain about my postings in an
effort to deny my right to free speech. Says a lot about you....


http://www.aboutkenpangborn.com


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Please remove this discussion from the asCPS ng.

" krp" wrote in message
news:Kq8ph.6840$%Q4.2408@trnddc06...
(snip)
Please excuse me while I fall out of my chair. Gregg actually provided a
link to something relevant!

I have never engaged in such an operation gregg, I've never had the urge.
I am about as up front a person as you will ever (given the opportunity)
meet. And in the games I enjoy, its not an option. One is either on one
side or the other, and its pretty clear who is who.

Up font?? That means you are gullible as hell, at least guilty as hell
of wishful thinking with regard to Moore's website.

Up front ken, me, honest, no guile. Get it?

That does not mean that I believe others are like myself. I know the depths
to which mankind can sink. Both from my experience as a Law Enforcement
Officer and as a Foster Parent. Which of course leads me to the conclusion
that you are not up front, not honest, and full of guile. IOW ken, you are
a liar. YOU have proven that here in this news group, not mr moore. YOU
ken. All mr moore has done, IMO, is provide historical information on you
that may or may not be true. But given what he has provided on his web site
and your actions in this news group, I am FAR more apt to take what he says
as truthful than any claims you have or may make.

(snip)

Tell me Ron and the GENIUS of Usenet how do you explain that your
HERO - DAVID MOORE in ANY of his ID's "Freedom" Tip@cotse or as Percy
have NEVER posted ON TOPIC on ANY newsgroup? If you look at any of them,
soc.men, ascps, soc.culture.cuba, adru etc not even ONE POST in the past
years ON TOPIC! How do you explain that 100% of the posts are attacks on
me and NEVER on topic????? Oh I await the rationalization on that one with
baited breath.

I wouldn't know ken, I don't see his posts unless I go through google
groups. While his posts may not have been on topic, as you claim, his web
site has been quite accurate about you. Your posts on the other hand, while
on topic at times, have been filled with misdirection and un-truths, just as
his web site claims is your style. I have seen this for myself, long before
I ever visited his web site. So, its not rationalization in any way ken,
its observed fact. I know that its hard for you to deal with someone who
verifies the facts as I have, but life is made up of these little
disappointments.

The two of you have been hacking at each other for years now. Stalking,
both on and off the internet, and you have gotten absolutely no where.
Given that alone, as I said in another thread, its now kind of difficult to
tell where one idiot starts and the other ends.

I don't see why the two of you don't meet somewhere at dawn, with pistols
drawn, and just shoot it out. Neither of you is EVER going to see the
others side of things, and the ongoing infantile ****ing contest I'm sure is
getting a bit old. I know it is for the rest of the internet community.

Ron

freedom wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Of course not, because you can't prove a negative. I can, however,
show
numerous instances where Ken falsely accused me of being the owner of
other
IDs, even claiming to have "proof", and the IDs turned out to belong
to
someone else. And I can also show proof that Ken, himself, has a
documented history of creating ficticious identities.

Which ID's turned out to be somebody else? Documentation please
Davey.

Sure, as always I'm happy to nail your fat ass with documentation of your
lies:

http://tinyurl.com/ylunlk

And you claim it was proved it was not you, WHERE????

This is just one example...you falsely alleged that this person was me,
when he clearly was not. This was proven when he even took your side
later
in the discussion.

You've accused many people of being me, including Rob Gautier, tip@cotse,
Will Rainey, etc.

But you have been. WIll Rainey is a name you made up named after WILLIAM
RAINEY HARPER COLLEGE that was in your area.
Your claims that I use MANY MANY MAN Y MANY different ID's is based and
supported ONLY by your claims. ALL of the ID's I have used have been
derivatives of my names, ie in the present case initials.

Except for , , . All
of which are proved to be you at http://www.aboutkenpangborn.com. Sorry,
Ken, but you slipped up too many times, posting AS Ken Pangborn from
those
accounts. Not to mention the time you screwed up and forgot to take your
"computername" out of the headers of your Judgedredd posts Remember
when Terri nailed your fat ass on that one in front of everyone? That
was
one of the stupidest things you've ever done....other than sending out
that
alt.atheism forgery and forgetting what name you were sending it under!

None of which are "PROVED" to be me only allegations on YOUR website
with evidence created by you! NONE of which were me.

My AOL masteraccount was and .

And , which was another pretend alias...which
disappeared
the same day that AOL terminated your account for abuse.
(Which you also lie about to this day.)

Amazing I kept those right up to a couple years ago at AOL. Sebring was
NOT mine.


Similarly at one time Ihad a compuserve account again using my name but
NEVER posting to Usenet
from it. And I had an Earthlink account and Atlantic account both using
my
own name. I have my A-Team account that has NO usenet access.

Now Moore - let's look at you. You post ONLY through Anonymous
remailers. Why? Because you have NO choice. NONE! No regular ISP would
tolerate your behavior for long.

In other words, you would frequently complain about my postings in an
effort to deny my right to free speech. Says a lot about you....

No Davey that isn't the reason. What's funny is that you complained
constantly to MY ISP.... And still do. The REAL reason you don't post as
yourself any more and NEVER on topic in a newsgroup is because you have shot
yourself so badly you know you have no credibility. Your ONE use of the
internet today is to STALK ME... You CANNOT post normally or ON TOPIC any
more. I can post as myself and do, while you CANNOT! You must have
deniability, I don't need it.

freedom wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, " krp" wrote:
"0:-" wrote in message
...
Greegor wrote:
freedom wrote:
Maybe because two of those three aren't my
addresses, and I've never posted as them?
And everybody's supposed to believe that because you SAID so??
If you ARE, wouldn't you deny it?
The "shadow of doubt" in this case works against you.

There is NO WAY for you to prove that it is NOT you.
An no way for the other person to prove it's not him, stupid.

Sure there is. The forgeries intensified at one point when I was in Cuba
with NO internet access. That's proof.

Never happened. During the time frame when you claimed to have gone to
Cuba to purchase your wife, your postings continued unabated, both from
your regular account and your now-defunct Internet Junction account.

You also at one time tried to claim that you had made a trip to Cuba, and
as "evidence" you posted a Photoshopped boarding pass. You then
crossposted into the Photoshop newsgroup to ask for an "expert" opinion on
this, and the regulars there nailed your fat ass on this as well.

Are you and Ken able to read and respond to each other's posts on other
more appropriate newsgroups?

Please drop ascps from you address block.

Thank you for your consideration.

Kane



http://www.aboutkenpangborn.com


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"Ron" wrote in message
...
(snip no surprises)

Please excuse me while I fall out of my chair. Gregg actually provided
a link to something relevant!

I have never engaged in such an operation gregg, I've never had the
urge. I am about as up front a person as you will ever (given the
opportunity) meet. And in the games I enjoy, its not an option. One is
either on one side or the other, and its pretty clear who is who.

Up font?? That means you are gullible as hell, at least guilty as hell
of wishful thinking with regard to Moore's website.

Up front ken, me, honest, no guile. Get it?

HA! You have a vested interest here, cut the ****.

That does not mean that I believe others are like myself. I know the
depths to which mankind can sink. Both from my experience as a Law
Enforcement Officer and as a Foster Parent. Which of course leads me to
the conclusion that you are not up front, not honest, and full of guile.
IOW ken, you are a liar. YOU have proven that here in this news group,
not mr moore. YOU ken. All mr moore has done, IMO, is provide historical
information on you that may or may not be true. But given what he has
provided on his web site and your actions in this news group, I am FAR
more apt to take what he says as truthful than any claims you have or may
make.

Your problem Ron is that you are a hard liner. What we call a "WITCH
HUNTER." Backing off your claims that Moore's stuff is 100% accurate about
me?
Feeling just a little shakey about it Ron? Np you NEED to believe he is
right about me or come face to face with the terrifying thought that your
emporer has NO clothing at all! Ron it takes somebody either fundamentally
stupid or fundamentally dishonest to hold up Moore's BULL**** as the truth.
He WHINES to you with claims that I "stalk" him - yet HE has photos of MY
house on his website. HE has a photo of ME on his website. HE has frantic
information trying to reach MY wife on his website, while claiming I am
doing that to him. Now Ron, baby, most "NORMAL" people would look at his
allegations about what I supposedly have done to HIM, and thenlook at the
things he has about ME on his website and conclude that he does EVERYTHING
he accuses me of doing. Most "normal" people also can see that he NEVER
posts anything ON TOPIC in ANY newsgroup he posts in. Not here in ASCPS, not
in ADRU, not in soc.men, not in the Cuba newsgroup NOWHERE! Ask him WHY he
posts in the Cuba newsgroup. What is HIS connection to Cuba. My wife is
from Cuba. I have been to Cuba, his ONLY interest in it is to stalk and
harass me. BUT see what answer you get.

(snip)

Tell me Ron and the GENIUS of Usenet how do you explain that your
HERO - DAVID MOORE in ANY of his ID's "Freedom" Tip@cotse or as Percy
have NEVER posted ON TOPIC on ANY newsgroup? If you look at any of them,
soc.men, ascps, soc.culture.cuba, adru etc not even ONE POST in the past
years ON TOPIC! How do you explain that 100% of the posts are attacks
on me and NEVER on topic????? Oh I await the rationalization on that one
with baited breath.

I wouldn't know ken, I don't see his posts unless I go through google
groups. While his posts may not have been on topic, as you claim, his web
site has been quite accurate about you. Your posts on the other hand,
while on topic at times, have been filled with misdirection and un-truths,
just as his web site claims is your style. I have seen this for myself,
long before I ever visited his web site. So, its not rationalization in
any way ken, its observed fact. I know that its hard for you to deal with
someone who verifies the facts as I have, but life is made up of these
little disappointments.

His website is BULLHIT! Ron I could say (and HAVE said) that YOUIR posts
have been fileld with untruths, such as the discussion on Nebraska's hiring
policies on CASEWORKERS... The first post cited the section on counsellors,
you had to click on a link at the bottom of the page to get to caseworkers,
you could have done that and provided that link as you later did. THEN when
confronted that the section you quoted supported what *I* originally said
and NOT what you said, you quoted a different section, the one related to
SUPERVISIORS and TRIED to claim THAT proved I was wrong. My original claim
was about case workers NOT supervisors. Then getting your ass kicked on that
you came back with TRAINING provisions that are NOT routinely followed. When
I asked you to show us that they DO actually do the training you abruptly
refused to continue. So NO - Ron it is YOU with the integrity problem, and
suppoerting Moore and his website just cooks your goose even worse. I have
already shown the FALSE names on his site. Go head TRY to track down that
Baltimore lawyer. I have you the links on William Rainey.

The two of you have been hacking at each other for years now. Stalking,
both on and off the internet, and you have gotten absolutely no where.
Given that alone, as I said in another thread, its now kind of difficult
to tell where one idiot starts and the other ends.

I have NEVER "stalked" the asshole on OR off the net. HE follows me, NOT
the reverse!


I don't see why the two of you don't meet somewhere at dawn, with pistols
drawn, and just shoot it out.


Because Mr. Moore the ANONYMOUS is a "COWARD!" Let me give you an example
to prove that statement. Some years ago I was scheduled to make a
presentation at a conference in Chicago. Moore announced that he was going
to make me eat my "lunch through a straw." He had believed that his
blackmail and threats would scare me off from speaking. When he learned I
actually CAME to speak, he began a series of FRANTIC (hysterical) phone
calls to the Police in the city where he lived (Bolingbrook) demanding 24
hour police protection crying like a baby that I was going to "get him." He
really had the whole department in stitches. The really FUNNY part is that
while he was complaining about me being near his house, I was meeting with a
detective about him at the hotel.

Or we can talk about the forgeries to a newsgroup that Davey claims
PROVE that I was doing the forgeries, at a time I was IN Cuba. His answer to
that? He claims the travel documents were "PHOTOSHOPPED." You can see they
were NOT!

freedom wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Greegor wrote:
freedom wrote:
Maybe because two of those three aren't my
addresses, and I've never posted as them?
And everybody's supposed to believe that because you SAID so??
If you ARE, wouldn't you deny it?
The "shadow of doubt" in this case works against you.

There is NO WAY for you to prove that it is NOT you.
An no way for the other person to prove it's not him, stupid.

Sure there is. The forgeries intensified at one point when I was in Cuba
with NO internet access. That's proof.

Never happened. During the time frame when you claimed to have gone to
Cuba to purchase your wife, your postings continued unabated, both from
your regular account and your now-defunct Internet Junction account.

The posts continued from the Internet Junction accpount because THAT WAS
NOT ME. My regular accoun was silent and only your FORGERIES to it
appeared. Just like ALL of the posts to usenet from my business account are
YOUR FORGERIES because it has NO Usenet access!

You also at one time tried to claim that you had made a trip to Cuba, and
as "evidence" you posted a Photoshopped boarding pass. You then
crossposted into the Photoshop newsgroup to ask for an "expert" opinion
on
this, and the regulars there nailed your fat ass on this as well.

That "regular" claimed as his ONLY basis for saying it was faked was
because he knew an "executive" with American Airlines who he claims told him
they have NEVER flown to Cuba. He never found ANY specific law in the
documents which are still up on my website. In answer to his bull**** that
American Airlines doesn't fly to Cuba - let's start at:
http://www.abc-charters.com/pages/aboutus.htm And then proceed to:
http://www.abc-charters.com/pages/aboutus.htm

where you will see that INDEED the flights are on AMERICAN AIRLINES..


Are you and Ken able to read and respond to each other's posts on other
more appropriate newsgroups?

For some reason I am not seeing any of his posts.

freedom wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 11 Jan 2007, "Dan Sullivan" wrote:
freedom wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, " krp" wrote:
freedom wrote:
Of course not, because you can't prove a negative. I can, however, show
numerous instances where Ken falsely accused me of being the owner of
other
IDs, even claiming to have "proof", and the IDs turned out to belong to
someone else. And I can also show proof that Ken, himself, has a
documented history of creating ficticious identities.
Which ID's turned out to be somebody else? Documentation please Davey.
Sure, as always I'm happy to nail your fat ass with documentation of your
lies:

http://tinyurl.com/ylunlk

This is just one example...you falsely alleged that this person was me,
when he clearly was not. This was proven when he even took your side later
in the discussion.

You've accused many people of being me, including Rob Gautier, tip@cotse,
Will Rainey, etc.


Your claims that I use MANY MANY MAN Y MANY different ID's is based and
supported ONLY by your claims. ALL of the ID's I have used have been
derivatives of my names, ie in the present case initials.
Except for , , . All
of which are proved to be you at http://www.aboutkenpangborn.com. Sorry,
Ken, but you slipped up too many times, posting AS Ken Pangborn from those
accounts. Not to mention the time you screwed up and forgot to take your
"computername" out of the headers of your Judgedredd posts Remember
when Terri nailed your fat ass on that one in front of everyone? That was
one of the stupidest things you've ever done....other than sending out that
alt.atheism forgery and forgetting what name you were sending it under!

My AOL mast
account was and .
And , which was another pretend alias...which disappeared
the same day that AOL terminated your account for abuse.
(Which you also lie about to this day.)

Similarly at one time I
had a compuserve account again using my name but NEVER posting to Usenet
from it. And I had an Earthlink account and Atlantic account both using my
own name. I have my A-Team account that has NO usenet access.

Now Moore - let's look at you. You post ONLY through Anonymous
remailers. Why? Because you have NO choice. NONE! No regular ISP would
tolerate your behavior for long.
In other words, you would frequently complain about my postings in an
effort to deny my right to free speech. Says a lot about you....


http://www.aboutkenpangborn.com


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Please remove this discussion from the asCPS ng.

And by the way...I note several posts by you which consist only of the text
"zzzzzzzzzzz", and which don't even indicate which posts or threads you're
responding to. How are those relevant to asCPS?

They indicate irrelevance. Surely you are smart enough to get the point.

And you have a newsreader that has a feature that displays a sort by
thread output?

My postings serve to warn people about a consultant who claims to assist
people against CPS claims, but who has phony credentials, a laundry list of
dissatisfied clients and a track record of lying. Arguably, that's
relevant to a discussion group regarding CPS.

We are adequately warned, Dave. You are not in a group of neophytes to
Usenet, or child and family issues here. We've known Ken for a very long
time. Usually we ignore him.

Greg, out of desperation and despite Ken's lie, did everything he could
to engage Ken HERE, so as to throw **** up to block people from seeing
his lies, deceit, and dangerous attacks on parents.

You are, and I apologize in advance if I'm being offensive, lending
yourself to Greg's effort to clutter up this newsgroup with diversions
and misdirection.

How is "zzzzzzzzz" relevant and my posts aren't? What gives you authority
to dictate this?

Dave, your posts are relevant.

They become irrelevant when you have repeated yourself say for the third
or forth time TO THE SAME PEOPLE.

See any new posters here?

Do you suppose we haven't gotten your message?

Trust me, we have. Now if you have something to contribute that is about
the child protection system, either it's failings or usefulness, or
about how to help families engaged with child protection, feel free to
join right in, speak right up, and rock our world.

But Ken is old news just about everywhere that matters.

Thank you for your contribution to this point.

We get your point. None of us are about to engage Ken for anything, not
even the ****ants that called him here.

Even they know better.

May I bid you a kind farewell now?

0:-



http://www.aboutkenpangborn.com


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