Recording of government workers in performance of duties

LIT Do you still think citizens don't have the right to record
their interactions with government agents?

"The picture doesn't show much, but the audio part of the recording,
posted
on Google Video and YouTube on the Internet, brought more than 300
protestcalls to St. George Police Chief Scott Uhrig. 'I was very
displeased
when I saw the actions on the video,' Uhrig said. 'My officers are
not
trained and taught to act like that.'" Bull****, pal. The only
thing
you're sorry about is the mere fact that one of your badgebullies got
CAUGHT. Just watch, if he's fired the FOP will force his re-
enstatement
with back pay and a few months later he'll get Officer of the Year or
something like that.

Video Shows Missouri Officer Threaten Driver with Made-Up Charges

Updated: September 11th, 2007 03:36 PM PDT
PATRICK M. O'CONNELL
St. Louis Post-Dispatch (Missouri)

ST. GEORGE - A car-mounted video camera - more commonly used by police
than
against them - captured a loud and threatening confrontation in this
tiny
St. Louis County community that left an officer on suspension and the
whole
world able to listen in.

The picture doesn't show much, but the audio part of the recording,
posted
on Google Video and YouTube on the Internet, brought more than 300
protest
calls to St. George Police Chief Scott Uhrig.

"I was very displeased when I saw the actions on the video," Uhrig
said. "My
officers are not trained and taught to act like that."

He put Sgt. James Kuehnlein on unpaid suspension pending further
investigation.

Uhrig said the officer's actions were not justified, and he insisted
the
episode is not representative of his department.

A voice identified as Kuehnlein's can be heard taunting the driver
and
threatening to jail him on fabricated charges.

The tape, made late last week, was from a camera running in the
vehicle
Kuehnlein approached, police said.

Brett Darrow, 20, of St. Louis, said he was the driver who recorded
the
exchange. He posted it online Saturday.

"I wanted everybody to see that this kind of stuff does happen,"
Darrow
said. "I thought if I just go to the chief or whatever, it would just
get
swept under the rug."

Kuehnlein could not be reached for comment Monday night.

St. George, a municipality of about 1,300, sits along Interstate 55
at
Reavis Barracks Road.

In the video, Kuehnlein, a St. George officer for about two years,
approaches a young man who was sitting in a parked car about 2 a.m. in
a
commuter lot near Spokane and Reavis Barracks roads. Kuehnlein asks
for
identification. When Darrow asks whether he did anything wrong, the
officer
orders him out of the car and begins shouting.

"You want to try me? You want to try me tonight? You think you have a
bad
night? I will ruin your night. ... Do you want to try me tonight,
young
boy?"

Darrow says no.

"Do you want to go to jail for some (expletive) reason I come up
with?" the
police officer says. Later, Darrow says, "I don't want any problems,
officer."

"You're about to get it," Kuehnlein is heard saying. "You already
started
your (expletive) problems with your attitude."

After the officer notices the camera, he says, "I don't really care
about
your cameras, 'cause I'm about ready to tow your car, then we can tear
'em
all apart."

After more than 10 minutes of interaction, Darrow is allowed to go.

Darrow said he was not trying to entrap the officer. He said he pulled
into
the commuter lot to meet a friend. When the officer asked him for
identification, Darrow said he didn't immediately present it because
he
believes the officer stopped him without probable cause.

Darrow said he installed the cameras in his Nissan Maxima after past
run-ins
with police. He said he was involved in a physical confrontation in
2005
with an off-duty St. Louis police officer, in a case Darrow said was
later
dismissed.

Darrow said he plans to meet with Uhrig today to discuss the weekend
incident.

Chief Uhrig said Kuehnlein stopped to talk to Darrow because police
have
received reports of thefts from cars in the area. But, Uhrig said,
based on
his viewing of the online video, the officer acted inappropriately
when he
threatened to make up charges, and used a disrespectful tone and
inappropriate language.

"We don't do that," Uhrig said. "Someone either violated the law or
they
didn't. You don't say, I'll lock you up and then come up with why
afterward."





http://www.kmov.com/localnews/storie....c4746fd5.html

Prosecutors may get involved in St. George traffic stop caught on dash
cam

08:17 PM CDT on Tuesday, September 11, 2007

Original Story: Officer on unpaid leave after alleged threats against
driver caught on tape

(KMOV) - News 4 asked more questions about a videotaped confrontation
between a St. George police officer and a local driver.

News 4 has learned the St Louis County Prosecutor may get involved.

It is the videotape seen round the world on the internet, of St.
George Police Sgt. James Kuehnlein's traffic stop last Friday.

Brett Darrow's camcorder was rolling when the officer got angry over
his initial lack of cooperation.

The St. George police chief says there was good reason to put the
officer on leave without pay during an internal investigation.

As far as Sgt. Kuehnlein's employment history, he worked for 6 years
in the Riverview Police Department and the chief says as a patrol
officer, his performance was good, but that he did not work undercover
as he had told St. George. If there were any complaints against him,
they're locked in his personnel file.

However, the videotape has people around the world and back in St.
George, talking.

Sgt. Kuehnlein also worked as a corrections officer in Jennings but
the chief told me he doesn't recall any problems with his
performance.

A decision on whether to discipline or fire Kuehnlein could come by
the middle of next week and then it will be up to prosecutors to
decide whether charges will be filed.

On Sep 13, 12:30 am, Greegor wrote:
LIT Do you still think citizens don't have the right to record
their interactions with government agents?

Yeah, you're a freakin expert, Greg.

Why then isn't Lisa's daughter back with her?

"The picture doesn't show much, but the audio part of the recording,
posted
on Google Video and YouTube on the Internet, brought more than 300
protestcalls to St. George Police Chief Scott Uhrig. 'I was very
displeased
when I saw the actions on the video,' Uhrig said. 'My officers are
not
trained and taught to act like that.'" Bull****, pal. The only
thing
you're sorry about is the mere fact that one of your badgebullies got
CAUGHT. Just watch, if he's fired the FOP will force his re-
enstatement
with back pay and a few months later he'll get Officer of the Year or
something like that.

Video Shows Missouri Officer Threaten Driver with Made-Up Charges

Updated: September 11th, 2007 03:36 PM PDT
PATRICK M. O'CONNELL
St. Louis Post-Dispatch (Missouri)

ST. GEORGE - A car-mounted video camera - more commonly used by police
than
against them - captured a loud and threatening confrontation in this
tiny
St. Louis County community that left an officer on suspension and the
whole
world able to listen in.

The picture doesn't show much, but the audio part of the recording,
posted
on Google Video and YouTube on the Internet, brought more than 300
protest
calls to St. George Police Chief Scott Uhrig.

"I was very displeased when I saw the actions on the video," Uhrig
said. "My
officers are not trained and taught to act like that."

He put Sgt. James Kuehnlein on unpaid suspension pending further
investigation.

Uhrig said the officer's actions were not justified, and he insisted
the
episode is not representative of his department.

A voice identified as Kuehnlein's can be heard taunting the driver
and
threatening to jail him on fabricated charges.

The tape, made late last week, was from a camera running in the
vehicle
Kuehnlein approached, police said.

Brett Darrow, 20, of St. Louis, said he was the driver who recorded
the
exchange. He posted it online Saturday.

"I wanted everybody to see that this kind of stuff does happen,"
Darrow
said. "I thought if I just go to the chief or whatever, it would just
get
swept under the rug."

Kuehnlein could not be reached for comment Monday night.

St. George, a municipality of about 1,300, sits along Interstate 55
at
Reavis Barracks Road.

In the video, Kuehnlein, a St. George officer for about two years,
approaches a young man who was sitting in a parked car about 2 a.m. in
a
commuter lot near Spokane and Reavis Barracks roads. Kuehnlein asks
for
identification. When Darrow asks whether he did anything wrong, the
officer
orders him out of the car and begins shouting.

"You want to try me? You want to try me tonight? You think you have a
bad
night? I will ruin your night. ... Do you want to try me tonight,
young
boy?"

Darrow says no.

"Do you want to go to jail for some (expletive) reason I come up
with?" the
police officer says. Later, Darrow says, "I don't want any problems,
officer."

"You're about to get it," Kuehnlein is heard saying. "You already
started
your (expletive) problems with your attitude."

After the officer notices the camera, he says, "I don't really care
about
your cameras, 'cause I'm about ready to tow your car, then we can tear
'em
all apart."

After more than 10 minutes of interaction, Darrow is allowed to go.

Darrow said he was not trying to entrap the officer. He said he pulled
into
the commuter lot to meet a friend. When the officer asked him for
identification, Darrow said he didn't immediately present it because
he
believes the officer stopped him without probable cause.

Darrow said he installed the cameras in his Nissan Maxima after past
run-ins
with police. He said he was involved in a physical confrontation in
2005
with an off-duty St. Louis police officer, in a case Darrow said was
later
dismissed.

Darrow said he plans to meet with Uhrig today to discuss the weekend
incident.

Chief Uhrig said Kuehnlein stopped to talk to Darrow because police
have
received reports of thefts from cars in the area. But, Uhrig said,
based on
his viewing of the online video, the officer acted inappropriately
when he
threatened to make up charges, and used a disrespectful tone and
inappropriate language.

"We don't do that," Uhrig said. "Someone either violated the law or
they
didn't. You don't say, I'll lock you up and then come up with why
afterward."

http://www.kmov.com/localnews/storie...0911_dashcamfo...

Prosecutors may get involved in St. George traffic stop caught on dash
cam

08:17 PM CDT on Tuesday, September 11, 2007

Original Story: Officer on unpaid leave after alleged threats against
driver caught on tape

(KMOV) - News 4 asked more questions about a videotaped confrontation
between a St. George police officer and a local driver.

News 4 has learned the St Louis County Prosecutor may get involved.

It is the videotape seen round the world on the internet, of St.
George Police Sgt. James Kuehnlein's traffic stop last Friday.

Brett Darrow's camcorder was rolling when the officer got angry over
his initial lack of cooperation.

The St. George police chief says there was good reason to put the
officer on leave without pay during an internal investigation.

As far as Sgt. Kuehnlein's employment history, he worked for 6 years
in the Riverview Police Department and the chief says as a patrol
officer, his performance was good, but that he did not work undercover
as he had told St. George. If there were any complaints against him,
they're locked in his personnel file.

However, the videotape has people around the world and back in St.
George, talking.

Sgt. Kuehnlein also worked as a corrections officer in Jennings but
the chief told me he doesn't recall any problems with his
performance.

A decision on whether to discipline or fire Kuehnlein could come by
the middle of next week and then it will be up to prosecutors to
decide whether charges will be filed.

Government workers have no reasonable expectation of privacy
in their interactions with citizens.

G LIT Do you still think citizens don't have the right to record
G their interactions with government agents?

DS Yeah, you're a freakin expert, Greg.
DS Why then isn't Lisa's daughter back with her?


"The picture doesn't show much, but the audio part of the recording,
posted
on Google Video and YouTube on the Internet, brought more than 300
protestcalls to St. George Police Chief Scott Uhrig. 'I was very
displeased
when I saw the actions on the video,' Uhrig said. 'My officers are
not
trained and taught to act like that.'" Bull****, pal. The only
thing
you're sorry about is the mere fact that one of your badgebullies got
CAUGHT. Just watch, if he's fired the FOP will force his re-
enstatement
with back pay and a few months later he'll get Officer of the Year or
something like that.

Video Shows Missouri Officer Threaten Driver with Made-Up Charges

Updated: September 11th, 2007 03:36 PM PDT
PATRICK M. O'CONNELL
St. Louis Post-Dispatch (Missouri)

ST. GEORGE - A car-mounted video camera - more commonly used by police
than
against them - captured a loud and threatening confrontation in this
tiny
St. Louis County community that left an officer on suspension and the
whole
world able to listen in.

The picture doesn't show much, but the audio part of the recording,
posted
on Google Video and YouTube on the Internet, brought more than 300
protest
calls to St. George Police Chief Scott Uhrig.

"I was very displeased when I saw the actions on the video," Uhrig
said. "My
officers are not trained and taught to act like that."

He put Sgt. James Kuehnlein on unpaid suspension pending further
investigation.

Uhrig said the officer's actions were not justified, and he insisted
the
episode is not representative of his department.

A voice identified as Kuehnlein's can be heard taunting the driver
and
threatening to jail him on fabricated charges.

The tape, made late last week, was from a camera running in the
vehicle
Kuehnlein approached, police said.

Brett Darrow, 20, of St. Louis, said he was the driver who recorded
the
exchange. He posted it online Saturday.

"I wanted everybody to see that this kind of stuff does happen,"
Darrow
said. "I thought if I just go to the chief or whatever, it would just
get
swept under the rug."

Kuehnlein could not be reached for comment Monday night.

St. George, a municipality of about 1,300, sits along Interstate 55
at
Reavis Barracks Road.

In the video, Kuehnlein, a St. George officer for about two years,
approaches a young man who was sitting in a parked car about 2 a.m. in
a
commuter lot near Spokane and Reavis Barracks roads. Kuehnlein asks
for
identification. When Darrow asks whether he did anything wrong, the
officer
orders him out of the car and begins shouting.

"You want to try me? You want to try me tonight? You think you have a
bad
night? I will ruin your night. ... Do you want to try me tonight,
young
boy?"

Darrow says no.

"Do you want to go to jail for some (expletive) reason I come up
with?" the
police officer says. Later, Darrow says, "I don't want any problems,
officer."

"You're about to get it," Kuehnlein is heard saying. "You already
started
your (expletive) problems with your attitude."

After the officer notices the camera, he says, "I don't really care
about
your cameras, 'cause I'm about ready to tow your car, then we can tear
'em
all apart."

After more than 10 minutes of interaction, Darrow is allowed to go.

Darrow said he was not trying to entrap the officer. He said he pulled
into
the commuter lot to meet a friend. When the officer asked him for
identification, Darrow said he didn't immediately present it because
he
believes the officer stopped him without probable cause.

Darrow said he installed the cameras in his Nissan Maxima after past
run-ins
with police. He said he was involved in a physical confrontation in
2005
with an off-duty St. Louis police officer, in a case Darrow said was
later
dismissed.

Darrow said he plans to meet with Uhrig today to discuss the weekend
incident.

Chief Uhrig said Kuehnlein stopped to talk to Darrow because police
have
received reports of thefts from cars in the area. But, Uhrig said,
based on
his viewing of the online video, the officer acted inappropriately
when he
threatened to make up charges, and used a disrespectful tone and
inappropriate language.

"We don't do that," Uhrig said. "Someone either violated the law or
they
didn't. You don't say, I'll lock you up and then come up with why
afterward."

http://www.kmov.com/localnews/storie...0911_dashcamfo...

Prosecutors may get involved in St. George traffic stop caught on dash
cam

08:17 PM CDT on Tuesday, September 11, 2007

Original Story: Officer on unpaid leave after alleged threats against
driver caught on tape

(KMOV) - News 4 asked more questions about a videotaped confrontation
between a St. George police officer and a local driver.

News 4 has learned the St Louis County Prosecutor may get involved.

It is the videotape seen round the world on the internet, of St.
George Police Sgt. James Kuehnlein's traffic stop last Friday.

Brett Darrow's camcorder was rolling when the officer got angry over
his initial lack of cooperation.

The St. George police chief says there was good reason to put the
officer on leave without pay during an internal investigation.

As far as Sgt. Kuehnlein's employment history, he worked for 6 years
in the Riverview Police Department and the chief says as a patrol
officer, his performance was good, but that he did not work undercover
as he had told St. George. If there were any complaints against him,
they're locked in his personnel file.

However, the videotape has people around the world and back in St.
George, talking.

Sgt. Kuehnlein also worked as a corrections officer in Jennings but
the chief told me he doesn't recall any problems with his
performance.

A decision on whether to discipline or fire Kuehnlein could come by
the middle of next week and then it will be up to prosecutors to
decide whether charges will be filed.

On Sep 13, 10:54 am, Greegor wrote:
Government workers have no reasonable expectation of privacy
in their interactions with citizens.

G LIT Do you still think citizens don't have the right to record
G their interactions with government agents?

DS Yeah, you're a freakin expert, Greg.
DS Why then isn't Lisa's daughter back with her?

"The picture doesn't show much, but the audio part of the recording,
posted
on Google Video and YouTube on the Internet, brought more than 300
protestcalls to St. George Police Chief Scott Uhrig. 'I was very
displeased
when I saw the actions on the video,' Uhrig said. 'My officers are
not
trained and taught to act like that.'" Bull****, pal. The only
thing
you're sorry about is the mere fact that one of your badgebullies got
CAUGHT. Just watch, if he's fired the FOP will force his re-
enstatement
with back pay and a few months later he'll get Officer of the Year or
something like that.

Video Shows Missouri Officer Threaten Driver with Made-Up Charges

Updated: September 11th, 2007 03:36 PM PDT
PATRICK M. O'CONNELL
St. Louis Post-Dispatch (Missouri)

ST. GEORGE - A car-mounted video camera - more commonly used by police
than
against them - captured a loud and threatening confrontation in this
tiny
St. Louis County community that left an officer on suspension and the
whole
world able to listen in.

The picture doesn't show much, but the audio part of the recording,
posted
on Google Video and YouTube on the Internet, brought more than 300
protest
calls to St. George Police Chief Scott Uhrig.

"I was very displeased when I saw the actions on the video," Uhrig
said. "My
officers are not trained and taught to act like that."

He put Sgt. James Kuehnlein on unpaid suspension pending further
investigation.

Uhrig said the officer's actions were not justified, and he insisted
the
episode is not representative of his department.

A voice identified as Kuehnlein's can be heard taunting the driver
and
threatening to jail him on fabricated charges.

The tape, made late last week, was from a camera running in the
vehicle
Kuehnlein approached, police said.

Brett Darrow, 20, of St. Louis, said he was the driver who recorded
the
exchange. He posted it online Saturday.

"I wanted everybody to see that this kind of stuff does happen,"
Darrow
said. "I thought if I just go to the chief or whatever, it would just
get
swept under the rug."

Kuehnlein could not be reached for comment Monday night.

St. George, a municipality of about 1,300, sits along Interstate 55
at
Reavis Barracks Road.

In the video, Kuehnlein, a St. George officer for about two years,
approaches a young man who was sitting in a parked car about 2 a.m. in
a
commuter lot near Spokane and Reavis Barracks roads. Kuehnlein asks
for
identification. When Darrow asks whether he did anything wrong, the
officer
orders him out of the car and begins shouting.

"You want to try me? You want to try me tonight? You think you have a
bad
night? I will ruin your night. ... Do you want to try me tonight,
young
boy?"

Darrow says no.

"Do you want to go to jail for some (expletive) reason I come up
with?" the
police officer says. Later, Darrow says, "I don't want any problems,
officer."

"You're about to get it," Kuehnlein is heard saying. "You already
started
your (expletive) problems with your attitude."

After the officer notices the camera, he says, "I don't really care
about
your cameras, 'cause I'm about ready to tow your car, then we can tear
'em
all apart."

After more than 10 minutes of interaction, Darrow is allowed to go.

Darrow said he was not trying to entrap the officer. He said he pulled
into
the commuter lot to meet a friend. When the officer asked him for
identification, Darrow said he didn't immediately present it because
he
believes the officer stopped him without probable cause.

Darrow said he installed the cameras in his Nissan Maxima after past
run-ins
with police. He said he was involved in a physical confrontation in
2005
with an off-duty St. Louis police officer, in a case Darrow said was
later
dismissed.

Darrow said he plans to meet with Uhrig today to discuss the weekend
incident.

Chief Uhrig said Kuehnlein stopped to talk to Darrow because police
have
received reports of thefts from cars in the area. But, Uhrig said,
based on
his viewing of the online video, the officer acted inappropriately
when he
threatened to make up charges, and used a disrespectful tone and
inappropriate language.

"We don't do that," Uhrig said. "Someone either violated the law or
they
didn't. You don't say, I'll lock you up and then come up with why
afterward."

http://www.kmov.com/localnews/storie...0911_dashcamfo...

Prosecutors may get involved in St. George traffic stop caught on dash
cam

08:17 PM CDT on Tuesday, September 11, 2007

Original Story: Officer on unpaid leave after alleged threats against
driver caught on tape

(KMOV) - News 4 asked more questions about a videotaped confrontation
between a St. George police officer and a local driver.

News 4 has learned the St Louis County Prosecutor may get involved.

It is the videotape seen round the world on the internet, of St.
George Police Sgt. James Kuehnlein's traffic stop last Friday.

Brett Darrow's camcorder was rolling when the officer got angry over
his initial lack of cooperation.

The St. George police chief says there was good reason to put the
officer on leave without pay during an internal investigation.

As far as Sgt. Kuehnlein's employment history, he worked for 6 years
in the Riverview Police Department and the chief says as a patrol
officer, his performance was good, but that he did not work undercover
as he had told St. George. If there were any complaints against him,
they're locked in his personnel file.

However, the videotape has people around the world and back in St.
George, talking.

Sgt. Kuehnlein also worked as a corrections officer in Jennings but
the chief told me he doesn't recall any problems with his
performance.

A decision on whether to discipline or fire Kuehnlein could come by
the middle of next week and then it will be up to prosecutors to
decide whether charges will be filed.

And how did this information assist you in beating your founded rap
with CPS ?

FM And how did this information assist you
FM in beating your founded rap with CPS ?

Been looking up records eh?

On Sep 13, 1:06 pm, Greegor wrote:
FM And how did this information assist you
FM in beating your founded rap with CPS ?

Been looking up records eh?


Greg, as you recall, the topic of discussion was taping telephone
calls. I live in a 2 party state. For that recording to be legal,
the person my friend talked to would have had to inform and get
consent to record. She did not. Therefore, that taped phone
recording wasn't legal. If the conversation had taken place in my
home, front yard or whatever, you bet your ass it would have been
recorded. I have notices on all my doors that all activity on the
property is subject to video and audio taping.

FM And how did this information assist you
FM in beating your founded rap with CPS ?

G Been looking up records eh?

Lostintranslation wrote
Greg, as you recall, the topic of discussion was taping telephone
calls. I live in a 2 party state. For that recording to be legal,
the person my friend talked to would have had to inform and get
consent to record. She did not. Therefore, that taped phone
recording wasn't legal. If the conversation had taken place in my
home, front yard or whatever, you bet your ass it would have been
recorded. I have notices on all my doors that all activity on the
property is subject to video and audio taping.

This guy serrupticiously recorded the cop, including audio.

That is illegal in almost every state.

Recording government workers in their interactions
with citizens is a special case outside of the
normal recording rules.

Government workers interacting/interrogating citizens
are NOT merely acting in their capacity as
private citizens.

Government workers have no reasonable expectation
of privacy in those interactions.

Privacy laws are about protecting citizens, not about
protecting government workers FROM citizens who
record them saying and doing bad things.

It's extremely compelling that recordings of
government workers performing badly is a way
to improve the performance of government workers.

To simply cite recording privacy laws is to
misapply them in a disengenius fashion.

Privacy is for citizens, not to be misused to protect
or allow malfeasance by government workers.

On Sep 13, 7:39 pm, Greegor wrote:
FM And how did this information assist you
FM in beating your founded rap with CPS ?

G Been looking up records eh?

Lostintranslation wrote

Greg, as you recall, the topic of discussion was taping telephone
calls. I live in a 2 party state. For that recording to be legal,
the person my friend talked to would have had to inform and get
consent to record. She did not. Therefore, that taped phone
recording wasn't legal. If the conversation had taken place in my
home, front yard or whatever, you bet your ass it would have been
recorded. I have notices on all my doors that all activity on the
property is subject to video and audio taping.

This guy serrupticiously recorded the cop, including audio.

That is illegal in almost every state.

Recording government workers in their interactions
with citizens is a special case outside of the
normal recording rules.

Government workers interacting/interrogating citizens
are NOT merely acting in their capacity as
private citizens.

Government workers have no reasonable expectation
of privacy in those interactions.

Privacy laws are about protecting citizens, not about
protecting government workers FROM citizens who
record them saying and doing bad things.

It's extremely compelling that recordings of
government workers performing badly is a way
to improve the performance of government workers.

To simply cite recording privacy laws is to
misapply them in a disengenius fashion.

Privacy is for citizens, not to be misused to protect
or allow malfeasance by government workers.

But obviously, this recording is holding legal water. A little leak
of confidential information probably wouldn't hold as much legal
water. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure the boat would sink pretty
fast. And actually Greg, and I will *try* to find the article, there
was something here recently where a woman getting pulled over by a cop
videotaped everything that went on. Why did she tape it? Because we
have had a rash of people impersonating LEOs and harming women on
backroads. She taped the incident. She contacted the paper and told
them what happened and that all women should consider doing the same
thing. In response from the officer, he said that he agreed with
citizens recording any type of interaction with the police when they
are pulled over especially women.

I still do not agree with you that I should have submitted my
recording though, Greg. My case was closed and my kids home. If I
had gone to court with that recording in my hot little hands, I would
have been in hot water. Sure, I could say 'Your honor, this illegal
recording was obtained while dealing with a government official
leaking information please don't throw me in jail for it' but I'm just
about 100% positive, the judge wouldn't be all too pleased with me and
not listen to my request for no jail time. Sometimes, it's better to
keep your mouth shut and work on changing the laws without subjecting
yourself to jail time.

On Sep 14, 4:14 am, lostintranslation
wrote:
On Sep 13, 7:39 pm, Greegor wrote:



FM And how did this information assist you
FM in beating your founded rap with CPS ?

G Been looking up records eh?

Lostintranslation wrote

Greg, as you recall, the topic of discussion was taping telephone
calls. I live in a 2 party state. For that recording to be legal,
the person my friend talked to would have had to inform and get
consent to record. She did not. Therefore, that taped phone
recording wasn't legal. If the conversation had taken place in my
home, front yard or whatever, you bet your ass it would have been
recorded. I have notices on all my doors that all activity on the
property is subject to video and audio taping.

This guy serrupticiously recorded the cop, including audio.

That is illegal in almost every state.

Recording government workers in their interactions
with citizens is a special case outside of the
normal recording rules.

Government workers interacting/interrogating citizens
are NOT merely acting in their capacity as
private citizens.

Government workers have no reasonable expectation
of privacy in those interactions.

Privacy laws are about protecting citizens, not about
protecting government workers FROM citizens who
record them saying and doing bad things.

It's extremely compelling that recordings of
government workers performing badly is a way
to improve the performance of government workers.

To simply cite recording privacy laws is to
misapply them in a disengenius fashion.

Privacy is for citizens, not to be misused to protect
or allow malfeasance by government workers.

But obviously, this recording is holding legal water. A little leak
of confidential information probably wouldn't hold as much legal
water. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure the boat would sink pretty
fast. And actually Greg, and I will *try* to find the article, there
was something here recently where a woman getting pulled over by a cop
videotaped everything that went on. Why did she tape it? Because we
have had a rash of people impersonating LEOs and harming women on
backroads. She taped the incident. She contacted the paper and told
them what happened and that all women should consider doing the same
thing. In response from the officer, he said that he agreed with
citizens recording any type of interaction with the police when they
are pulled over especially women.

I still do not agree with you that I should have submitted my
recording though, Greg. My case was closed and my kids home. If I
had gone to court with that recording in my hot little hands, I would
have been in hot water. Sure, I could say 'Your honor, this illegal
recording was obtained while dealing with a government official
leaking information please don't throw me in jail for it' but I'm just
about 100% positive, the judge wouldn't be all too pleased with me and
not listen to my request for no jail time. Sometimes, it's better to
keep your mouth shut and work on changing the laws without subjecting
yourself to jail time.


The thing gregg does not understand is when your children have been
UNJUSTLY taken from you, the first and foremost objective on your
heart is to get them safely back with you. Its not about your ego,
proving anyone wrong,getting rich, etc. There will be time after their
safe return for settling scores if that is the course you choose.

On Sep 14, 11:08 am, firemonkey wrote:
On Sep 14, 4:14 am, lostintranslation
wrote:



On Sep 13, 7:39 pm, Greegor wrote:

FM And how did this information assist you
FM in beating your founded rap with CPS ?

G Been looking up records eh?

Lostintranslation wrote

Greg, as you recall, the topic of discussion was taping telephone
calls. I live in a 2 party state. For that recording to be legal,
the person my friend talked to would have had to inform and get
consent to record. She did not. Therefore, that taped phone
recording wasn't legal. If the conversation had taken place in my
home, front yard or whatever, you bet your ass it would have been
recorded. I have notices on all my doors that all activity on the
property is subject to video and audio taping.

This guy serrupticiously recorded the cop, including audio.

That is illegal in almost every state.

Recording government workers in their interactions
with citizens is a special case outside of the
normal recording rules.

Government workers interacting/interrogating citizens
are NOT merely acting in their capacity as
private citizens.

Government workers have no reasonable expectation
of privacy in those interactions.

Privacy laws are about protecting citizens, not about
protecting government workers FROM citizens who
record them saying and doing bad things.

It's extremely compelling that recordings of
government workers performing badly is a way
to improve the performance of government workers.

To simply cite recording privacy laws is to
misapply them in a disengenius fashion.

Privacy is for citizens, not to be misused to protect
or allow malfeasance by government workers.

But obviously, this recording is holding legal water. A little leak
of confidential information probably wouldn't hold as much legal
water. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure the boat would sink pretty
fast. And actually Greg, and I will *try* to find the article, there
was something here recently where a woman getting pulled over by a cop
videotaped everything that went on. Why did she tape it? Because we
have had a rash of people impersonating LEOs and harming women on
backroads. She taped the incident. She contacted the paper and told
them what happened and that all women should consider doing the same
thing. In response from the officer, he said that he agreed with
citizens recording any type of interaction with the police when they
are pulled over especially women.

I still do not agree with you that I should have submitted my
recording though, Greg. My case was closed and my kids home. If I
had gone to court with that recording in my hot little hands, I would
have been in hot water. Sure, I could say 'Your honor, this illegal
recording was obtained while dealing with a government official
leaking information please don't throw me in jail for it' but I'm just
about 100% positive, the judge wouldn't be all too pleased with me and
not listen to my request for no jail time. Sometimes, it's better to
keep your mouth shut and work on changing the laws without subjecting
yourself to jail time.

The thing gregg does not understand is when your children have been
UNJUSTLY taken from you, the first and foremost objective on your
heart is to get them safely back with you. Its not about your ego,
proving anyone wrong,getting rich, etc. There will be time after their
safe return for settling scores if that is the course you choose.

But Greg figures the longer the child is without her mother the more
money he and Lisa will get.