flapping hands

Beliavsky wrote in

ps.com:

At his school, a preschool teacher who observed him
flapping his hands suggested to his kindergarten teacher
that she tell his mother to get him tested for Asperger's,
based on that one symptom. That sure ruined his mother's
day. Partly we want to reassure ourselves. We also don't
want teachers to think he's autistic if he is not.

i would gently suggest to the teacher that one 'symptom' does
not a diagnosis make & that playing psychologist is a bad
habit for teachers, especially for one not working directly
with the child. (IOW, she should mind her own business).
many small children do the hand flapping when excited. they
also seem to do it when they have to go to the bathroom...
most of those kids will outgrow it before grade school.
unless you have other reasons to suspect Asperger's, i'd
ignore it & wait for him to outgrow it.

lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

On Apr 7, 5:15*pm, Beliavsky wrote:

Although flapping hands is a symptom of autism, we don't
think he is autistic, since he does not exhibit other
symptoms.

And conversely, my son has Asperger's and doesn't flap at all.

At his school, a preschool teacher who observed him flapping his hands
suggested to his kindergarten teacher that she tell his mother to get
him tested for Asperger's, based on that one symptom.

If that was the only reason she said it, then better to put her down
as an idiot. Honestly, you can't change your son to please every
foolish adult he might encounter!

Partly we want to reassure ourselves.

If you have to teach him not to do it then it isn't truly reassuring
because you'd never know for sure that you weren't just covering up a
problem.

We also don't want teachers to think he's autistic if he is not.

Sensible teachers will not think such a thing on such flimsy evidence.
Really I wouldn't worry.

Maybe this is a cheeky thing to say but.... I get the impression that
you don't place a high priority on your son's social development
compared to his intellectual development. Thing is, a child who lacks
social development has one of the Big Three for autism/Aspergers
(though the other two signs, which are rigid thinking and
communication problems, would also have to be present). So if the
possibility of autism or Asperger's does become a concern for you or
for your son's teachers (and I don't mean this teacher's silly
remark!), then promoting your son's social development would be a more
productive place to focus your energy than trying to get him to stop
flapping.

All the best,

Cailleach

On Apr 7, 12:04*pm, enigma wrote:

Beliavsky wrote
oups.com:

My 4yr9mo son often flaps his hands when he is excited.
Although flapping hands is a symptom of autism, we don't
think he is autistic, since he does not exhibit other
symptoms. We would like the reduce the frequency of his
hand flapping over time. Any suggestions?

why do you want him to stop? does it embarrass you?
*in a NT child, hand flapping will disappear on it's own, as
long as you don't call attention to it.
*be happy yours just flaps his hands. mine spins & runs in
circles.
lee

At his school, a preschool teacher who observed him flapping his hands
suggested to his kindergarten teacher that she tell his mother to get
him tested for Asperger's, based on that one symptom. That sure ruined
his mother's day. Partly we want to reassure ourselves. We also don't
want teachers to think he's autistic if he is not.

On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:34:01 +0000 (UTC), enigma
wrote:

many small children do the hand flapping when excited. they
also seem to do it when they have to go to the bathroom...

The operative word is *small.* Actually, while many toddlers do this,
I haven't seen any NT 4 year olds doing the classical autistic hand
flap in any of the schools I have worked in.





--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 11:34:15 -0700 (PDT), Cailleach
wrote:

We also don't want teachers to think he's autistic if he is not.

Sensible teachers will not think such a thing on such flimsy evidence.
Really I wouldn't worry.

I agree. However, I would wonder what else they might have observed.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 12:13:44 -0400, "Stephanie" wrote:

Beliavsky wrote:
My 4yr9mo son often flaps his hands when he is excited. Although
flapping hands is a symptom of autism, we don't think he is autistic,
since he does not exhibit other symptoms. We would like the reduce the
frequency of his hand flapping over time. Any suggestions?


Let him flap his hands! Why do you want him not to flap his hands? I flap,
my daughter flap, my neice flaps, my other neice flaps. None of us are
autistic. What is the worry?

Interesting. I don't know what kind of hand flapping you do, but in
general, the kind of hand flapping I have seen in autistic children
looks very weird when adults do it.

That's not to say that it shouldn't be accepted, but it's not
something seen in NT children after they are around 3 or so.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

http://www.stephanietolan.com/dabrowskis.htm
for a summary.

Hmm, according to this site, DD3 is a gifted child. Not so sure about that,
but it is weird that they list the things she does.

It didn't say that if they exhibit these sensitivities, then they are
gifted, more that if your child is gifted, don't be surprised if they
do exhibit them. It's curious that they mention taking a long time to
grow out of things such as the tooth fairy and santa as other sources
suggest early disbelief of such things as a sign of giftedness.

But don't dismiss that your DD may be gifted, I've noticed in the past
you've had a notion of gifted simply being advanced and fairly
balanced in that advancement, I think you once said that if a child
was academically able to cope with grade acceleration, but not
socially, then they weren't gifted - but whilst there are very many
different definitions of gifted, that doesn't seem to be inline with
any widely accepted definition.

Gifted children don't always get good grades in school, so you don't
necessarily get a nice clear flag that academically they are
performing near the top, hence are gifted. There are a whole host of
reasons why that happens and sometimes we get stuck in the loop that
if the thoughts and ideas are there, but they aren't performing on
paper that it's laziness, carelessness etc and this can become a self
fufilling prophecy.

What can end up happening is with all the conflict and imbalance,
that's in part created by their giftedness and in part caused by
adults not dealing with it well, is that you get a student who's
performing averagely, having behavioural and relationship issues and
is generally unhappy and possibly lots of focus on sorting out
behaviour, making them feel even more frustrated and misunderstood.
There is no magic solution, but recognising the problem is a big step,
simply sorting out academics isn't going to undo the effect of years
of misunderstanding, but it can at least give them the chance to start
believing they are good at something and they can acheive, improving
self esteem and giving much more favourable circumstances for working
on other issues.

Cheers
Anne

toto wrote:

On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:34:01 +0000 (UTC), enigma
wrote:

many small children do the hand flapping when excited. they
also seem to do it when they have to go to the bathroom...

The operative word is *small.* Actually, while many toddlers do this,
I haven't seen any NT 4 year olds doing the classical autistic hand
flap in any of the schools I have worked in.

NT flapping is different from autistic flapping.
If the OP's child is not perseverating on his
flapping, or it's not continual flapping, or it's
not flapping that has big movements or slapping
movements associated with it, it's likely typical.
I don't have scientific data, but from what I have
observed, many NT 4yos do flap.

-- Anita --

Donna Metler wrote:

"Beliavsky" wrote in message
...

My 4yr9mo son often flaps his hands when he is excited. Although
flapping hands is a symptom of autism, we don't think he is autistic,
since he does not exhibit other symptoms. We would like the reduce the
frequency of his hand flapping over time. Any suggestions?

As bright as you've said he is, my guess is that he's just demonstrating
some of the "Overexcitabilities" common in highly gifted individuals.

Or he's just flapping because he's a typical,
normal 4yo.

-- Anita --

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
It didn't say that if they exhibit these sensitivities, then they are
gifted, more that if your child is gifted, don't be surprised if they
do exhibit them. It's curious that they mention taking a long time to
grow out of things such as the tooth fairy and santa as other sources
suggest early disbelief of such things as a sign of giftedness.

Oh I know. I worded it wrong. It was very interesting to me that in the
gifted set of kids, that they exhibit some of those tendencies and DD3 has
just about all of those tendencies.

But don't dismiss that your DD may be gifted, I've noticed in the past
you've had a notion of gifted simply being advanced and fairly
balanced in that advancement, I think you once said that if a child
was academically able to cope with grade acceleration, but not
socially, then they weren't gifted - but whilst there are very many
different definitions of gifted, that doesn't seem to be inline with
any widely accepted definition.

I understand. I suspect DD3 has some giftedness tendencies, as we do have
some really smart, even genius people on my husband's side. I don't know if
that kind of stuff is inherited or not. DD3 just doesn't apply herself and
hates school, so she does poorly even though she could do it if she tried.

Gifted children don't always get good grades in school, so you don't
necessarily get a nice clear flag that academically they are
performing near the top, hence are gifted. There are a whole host of
reasons why that happens and sometimes we get stuck in the loop that
if the thoughts and ideas are there, but they aren't performing on
paper that it's laziness, carelessness etc and this can become a self
fufilling prophecy.

That would definitely be DD3.

What can end up happening is with all the conflict and imbalance,
that's in part created by their giftedness and in part caused by
adults not dealing with it well, is that you get a student who's
performing averagely, having behavioural and relationship issues and
is generally unhappy and possibly lots of focus on sorting out
behaviour, making them feel even more frustrated and misunderstood.
There is no magic solution, but recognising the problem is a big step,
simply sorting out academics isn't going to undo the effect of years
of misunderstanding, but it can at least give them the chance to start
believing they are good at something and they can acheive, improving
self esteem and giving much more favourable circumstances for working
on other issues.

Good thoughts and definitely something to look at. I am not sure where to
start with DD3, but things have been going relatively good with our new way
of dealing with things here. We have had some set backs, but I expect that.
As far as school goes, she definitely does not try and seems to get average
to bad grades.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

Irrational Number wrote:
toto wrote:

On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:34:01 +0000 (UTC), enigma
wrote:

many small children do the hand flapping when excited. they also seem
to do it when they have to go to the bathroom...

The operative word is *small.* Actually, while many toddlers do this,
I haven't seen any NT 4 year olds doing the classical autistic hand
flap in any of the schools I have worked in.

NT flapping is different from autistic flapping.
If the OP's child is not perseverating on his
flapping, or it's not continual flapping, or it's
not flapping that has big movements or slapping
movements associated with it, it's likely typical.
I don't have scientific data, but from what I have
observed, many NT 4yos do flap.

-- Anita --

I'd have said that, too. I don't know that I've ever seen an autistic
child hand-flapping, so I'm not sure what that looks like. The kind of
hand-flapping that looks ordinary to me is the kind where the kid is
extra-excited, or frustrated, or 6th-grade-girl-silly (like a couple of
my daughter's classmates) - things like that.

Clisby