time outs?

x-no-archive:yes toto wrote:

On 21 Aug 2003 22:51:25 GMT, (GI Trekker) wrote:

As you should be. It was not your place to alter the child's form of
discipline. She was obviously prepared to accept the consequences of her
actions as she had been taught to, and IMO you should've left well enough
alone.

But the consequence in this case was inappropriate. She was not
helping to clean up or to repair the item. Also, punishment for
accidental breakage is totally unproductive even if you believe in
punishment.

I must say I still think she should have been allowed to put herself
in a time out if she thought it was appropriate, and I would NOT have
interfered with it.

As far as that goes, btw, she was in the OP's home and she is
certainly able to understand that her friend's parents do things
differently than her parent's do.

Yes, but that's not the point. Even if she had done something that I
would have given my own child a time out (or whatever) for, I wouldn't
put a *neighbor* child in one too unless I knew the parents well and
had discussed it with them. Anymore than I would spank them if I
spanked my own (note I said IF - my mom did spank me, but I found it
was counter productive, so rarely did that.) The most I might do is
send her home.



grandma Rosalie

On 21 Aug 2003 22:51:25 GMT, (GI Trekker) wrote:

As I left the room she said to my daughter, "I wish I had your
parents." While I consider that a fine compliment, I also am concerned
as I have obviously introduced into the neighbors family a concept
that they obviously don't share.

As you should be. It was not your place to alter the child's form of
discipline. She was obviously prepared to accept the consequences of her
actions as she had been taught to, and IMO you should've left well enough
alone.

So, if the discipline she was used to was corporal punnishment, I
should have instituted it?

Also IMO there are times when children should be punished for their actions, if
what they are doing is knowingly against established rules.

I thought I made it clear that this was an accident. You don't (well I
don't, you may) punnish a child for an accident. You work with them to
help them understand the consequences of the actions that they took,
what point in the chain of events they could have taken different
actions, what the outcomes would have been if they had done so. Yeah,
this takes a bit more time, but that's called parenting.

GI Trekker wrote:

As I left the room she said to my daughter, "I wish I had your
parents." While I consider that a fine compliment, I also am concerned
as I have obviously introduced into the neighbors family a concept
that they obviously don't share.

As you should be. It was not your place to alter the child's form of
discipline.
-------------
Bull****, you've always been an abusive piece of crap because you
were abused like that and now crave doing that to kids, but no one
will have any with you.

Time-outs are abuse. If you don't try to do that to your friends,
then don't your children deserve even better treatment? Anything
high-handed is abuse, ANYTHING! Kids need training in being effective,
they don't wish to break things unless you abused them and they are
expressing their hatred of you for it!

Time-outs are as bad as hitting or hateful labeling.
Steve

"GI Trekker" wrote in message
...
But the consequence in this case was inappropriate.

By whose definition? Clearly the child had been taught a certain form of
discipline by HER PARENTS, and it was not up to anyone else to go against
that.
It's not as though she was asking someone to spank her or something.

I thought I made it clear that this was an accident. You don't (well I
don't, you may) punnish a child for an accident.

What CAUSED the accident? Rough play in an inappropriate environment?
Sure,
they didn't mean to break the lamp, but if they were playing roughly in an
area
where they should have known better -- that's no accident, that's
carelessness,
and it needs to be disciplined.

You work with them to
help them understand the consequences of the actions that they took,
what point in the chain of events they could have taken different
actions, what the outcomes would have been if they had done so. Yeah,
this takes a bit more time, but that's called parenting.

You do this when they reach an age where they can understand such
concepts. And
yes, I believe the children here were at such an age. HOWEVER -- while
it's
called parenting, the child in question here WAS NOT THE OFFSPRING OF THE
ADULT
IN QUESTION. Therefore, it was NOT the place of the adult to contradict
what
the child had been taught as proper discipline for a certain situation!

well, it is, really. what if the child had dropped her pants & bent over for
a belting?! if the adult in charge would rather handle it his/her way, by
talking through the incident (which *s/he* decided was an accident) instead
of giving the children a punishment, that's his/her decision.

it doesn't go the other way, though. there's not too many punishments it
would be suitable to inflict on someone else's child. i daresay if it was a
major incident, the o.p. would have taken the child home, explained the situ
ation & left her in her parent's hands. that's what i'd do if there was a
major incident of any kind. i would *not* let the child decide whether & how
to be "punished" by me any more than i'd let them decide what other rules to
follow or not follow in my house. (!) as the adult, those things are *my*
responsibility, not theirs.
kylie
--
www.rdj.com.au

wrote:

"SuperEeyore" wrote:
GI Trekker wrote:
As you should be. It was not your place to alter the child's form of
discipline. She was obviously prepared to accept the consequences of
her actions as she had been taught to, and IMO you should've left
well enough alone.

I don't agree. My best friend in kindergarten was raised by spankers.
If she were to misbehave at our house, were my parents suposed to get the
switch or the belt out?

Imo, a faulty analogy at the least. I would have to agree with the advice:
"Leave well enough alone." It wouldn't be your parents place to disipline
one way or the other. Just let it be.
------------
You have the opportunity to teach a child a better way, one they
don't get at home. Jesus will hate you if you don't!
Steve

Rosalie B. wrote:

x-no-archive:yes toto wrote:

On 21 Aug 2003 22:51:25 GMT, (GI Trekker) wrote:

As you should be. It was not your place to alter the child's form of
discipline. She was obviously prepared to accept the consequences of her
actions as she had been taught to, and IMO you should've left well enough
alone.

But the consequence in this case was inappropriate. She was not
helping to clean up or to repair the item. Also, punishment for
accidental breakage is totally unproductive even if you believe in
punishment.

I must say I still think she should have been allowed to put herself
in a time out if she thought it was appropriate, and I would NOT have
interfered with it.

As far as that goes, btw, she was in the OP's home and she is
certainly able to understand that her friend's parents do things
differently than her parent's do.

Yes, but that's not the point. Even if she had done something that I
would have given my own child a time out (or whatever) for, I wouldn't
put a *neighbor* child in one too unless I knew the parents well and
had discussed it with them. Anymore than I would spank them if I
spanked my own (note I said IF - my mom did spank me, but I found it
was counter productive, so rarely did that.) The most I might do is
send her home.

grandma Rosalie
---------------
Hey, old bitch, don't you get it yet?
Time-outs are ABUSIVE, and WRONG!
Steve

Ali's Daddie wrote:

"ivler" wrote in message
...
| Recently my daughter had a friend over and together they both had an
| accident and while playing broke something. Hey accidents happen. What
| happened next bothered me. I came running into the room and saw the
| item broken and looked at the two girls (mine 8,the other 6). Mine was
| there cleaning up, but the other had moved to a corner of the room and
| was facing the wall.

This action on the younger girls part makes me think of domination and fear,
not punishment. She knew it was an accident, but also knew that at home, she
would be given a time out regardless of the "excuse". I too went through
something similar (as the child). I was at my uncles house. I broke a glass
and instantly went to his room, got his belt and pulled my pants down and
waited... He was quite upset that i was "trained" like that...

Just an example (extreme I'm sure) of what I am trying to get across by fear
and domination. Not saying the neighbors are bad parents btw. :-)
------------
And why the **** not???


x | Now, it's not my place to raise my neighbors kids, but this isn't
| somethiong I have ever done to a child (and now I can see that I was
| right). Rather than taking the time to explain the object lesson, so
| the incident won't be repeated, the child was punnished with "time
| out".

Our niece gets time outs still. I don't know if I will do the same to Alegra
or not as it breaks my heart to do it.
-------------
Can't you listen to the God who speaks in your Heart?


But that is all she has known (My
mother raised her for a couple years) and it is really all she responds to.
---------------
She would change what "she responds to" if it were stopped.


Thankfully when Kris was born, I did a heavy campagne to abolish spankings
and go on to time outs.
---------------
Time outs are as abusive as hitting. Both are abusive.

Kids need information, training, strategies for living, not
punishment.

If your kids ever wanted to harm you, you'd ****ing deserve it!!
God says so!
Steve

"GI Trekker" wrote in message
...
I don't agree. My best friend in kindergarten was raised by spankers.
If
she were to misbehave at our house, were my parents suposed to get the
switch or the belt out?

No, that would not have been appropriate. Look at the situation here. The
CHILD
went into her OWN "time out". If she was willing to face the discipline
she had
been raised with, which she could carry out HERSELF, she should have been
left
to do so.

I would have felt very weird allowing another child to stand in the corner
of my house while my child didn't have to. I would have done exactly as the
OP. Let the other child know that other families handle things differently.

I'm not saying that time out is abuse but what if a child is abused?
Wouldn't it be helpful to let that child realize that it doesn't go on in
other homes? That there are other options. Kids rationalize that what goes
on in their homes goes on in everyone else's home because they don't have
any other frame of reference.

Who knows, maybe this will get the other parents thinking.

Mary E.

I don't like "time outs" but if my kids are fighting and just driving each
other and me nuts, I will tell them to take a break from each other. I
tell them to go to their seperate rooms for awhile. They need the time to
cool off and get out of the crazy/fighting cycle. What usually happens is
they then get mad at me and while I'm downstairs they apologize to each
other and become friends again.

So, as I don't like the standard "time out", it really doesn't do any good
if it's conditioned and there is no learning experience (as the OP used the
accident as a learning tool) I do think sometimes kids need a break from
each other and that's when I use it.

Mary E.
"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
Ali's Daddie wrote:

"ivler" wrote in message
...
| Recently my daughter had a friend over and together they both had an
| accident and while playing broke something. Hey accidents happen. What
| happened next bothered me. I came running into the room and saw the
| item broken and looked at the two girls (mine 8,the other 6). Mine was
| there cleaning up, but the other had moved to a corner of the room and
| was facing the wall.

This action on the younger girls part makes me think of domination and
fear,
not punishment. She knew it was an accident, but also knew that at home,
she
would be given a time out regardless of the "excuse". I too went through
something similar (as the child). I was at my uncles house. I broke a
glass
and instantly went to his room, got his belt and pulled my pants down
and
waited... He was quite upset that i was "trained" like that...

Just an example (extreme I'm sure) of what I am trying to get across by
fear
and domination. Not saying the neighbors are bad parents btw. :-)
------------
And why the **** not???


x | Now, it's not my place to raise my neighbors kids, but this isn't
| somethiong I have ever done to a child (and now I can see that I was
| right). Rather than taking the time to explain the object lesson, so
| the incident won't be repeated, the child was punnished with "time
| out".

Our niece gets time outs still. I don't know if I will do the same to
Alegra
or not as it breaks my heart to do it.
-------------
Can't you listen to the God who speaks in your Heart?


But that is all she has known (My
mother raised her for a couple years) and it is really all she
responds to.
---------------
She would change what "she responds to" if it were stopped.


Thankfully when Kris was born, I did a heavy campagne to abolish
spankings
and go on to time outs.
---------------
Time outs are as abusive as hitting. Both are abusive.

Kids need information, training, strategies for living, not
punishment.

If your kids ever wanted to harm you, you'd ****ing deserve it!!
God says so!
Steve

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message
...
P. Tierney wrote:

"ivler" wrote:

Here I was at a loss. How do you explain that punnishment won't repair
the item, and that the goal is not to punnish, but to make sure that
the lesson is learned on making better choices and not repeating the
incident or a similar one?

I would say that such a thing is a good question and is something
that her parents would explain to her. By doing it as it was done,
you end up with....

As I left the room she said to my daughter, "I wish I had your
parents."

Which can't lead anywhere positive.
Tierney
-----------
Bull****, that *IS* positive, NOW she has a CHOICE as to how she'll
raise HER kids, and she is now FREED from mind-control and can come
to regard her parents as SHE wishes to regard them, as people with
sick flaws, and NOT just as "sick gods" to be obeyed!

I think the kid was six years old, so I don't think she needs to
come to conclusions on how she'll raise her kids just yet. If
all of the above is true regarding her parents, then it something
that she was going to figure out at some point anyway. As nearly
everyone does.


P. Tierney