time outs?

x-no-archive:yes
toto wrote:

But the consequence in this case was inappropriate. She was not
helping to clean up or to repair the item. Also, punishment for

I don' t think that it is necessarily appropriate for a child to clean
up accidental breakage. There's too much chance of being cut in many
cases. Actually even adults should be careful cleaning up something
that is broken. And repair may be out of the skill range of the
child. So really - if something is broken, IMHO the thing to do is to
go to whatever adult is present and report. And then take direction
from the adult as to what to do next.

Standing away from the area of damage would be the next best thing.

Do you (the OP) KNOW that the child put her self in a time out - maybe
she was just hiding her face in shame or attempting to disassociate
herself from the accident and you have interpreted as a TO.

accidental breakage is totally unproductive even if you believe in
punishment.

I think the most important thing here is that the children should not
attempt to cover up the accident or assign blame elsewhere. I don't
have the original post anymore, but while as below you might want to
release the child from a self-imposed TO, I don't think you should
indicate that you thought she was wrong to put herself into it or that
her parents were bad for using it.

As far as that goes, btw, she was in the OP's home and she is
certainly able to understand that her friend's parents do things
differently than her parent's do.

I agree that it is perfectly possible for children older than toddlers
to understand that one's friends parents may do things differently
than her parents.

For example, my parents always required me to address their friends as
Mr. X or Mrs. Y. I wasn't allowed to say M'am or Sir either as my mom
thought that indicated subservience. Some of my friends were
instructed to call my mom M'am or allowed to call the parents of their
friends by their first name, which my mom thought was inappropriate.

So should Mr. X tell me that I can call him Frank? If he does, what
do I, the child, do? Comply with Mr. X's request or do as my mom told
me?

Should my mom tell Frank's son not to call her M'am or by her first
name - that he should call her Mrs. A?


grandma Rosalie

x-no-archive:yes
I agree that it is perfectly possible for children older than toddlers
to understand that one's friends parents may do things differently
than her parents.

For example, my parents always required me to address their friends as
Mr. X or Mrs. Y. I wasn't allowed to say M'am or Sir either as my mom
thought that indicated subservience. Some of my friends were
instructed to call my mom M'am or allowed to call the parents of their
friends by their first name, which my mom thought was inappropriate.

So should Mr. X tell me that I can call him Frank? If he does, what
do I, the child, do? Comply with Mr. X's request or do as my mom told
me?

Should my mom tell Frank's son not to call her M'am or by her first
name - that he should call her Mrs. A?

That's an ettiquette question and the answer is (from watching some clip of
a manners teacher on the What a Girl Wants DVD) that children are to use Mr
or Mrs until told by that adult to call them something informal.

Laurel

"M.E. Mitchell" wrote:
"GI Trekker" wrote in message
...
I don't agree. My best friend in kindergarten was raised by
spankers.
If
she were to misbehave at our house, were my parents suposed to get the
switch or the belt out?

No, that would not have been appropriate. Look at the situation here.
The
CHILD
went into her OWN "time out". If she was willing to face the discipline
she had
been raised with, which she could carry out HERSELF, she should have
been
left
to do so.

I would have felt very weird allowing another child to stand in the
corner of my house while my child didn't have to. I would have done
exactly as the OP. Let the other child know that other families handle
things differently.

I wouldn't. I would address my child with something like: "It's okay,
Honey, you know we don't play rough in the house." Then let the kids take
it from there. It's their deal. There comes a point when you have to start
listening to the children, and also putting some responsibility in their
hands. They will thank you for it later. This (imo) is where parental
wisdom is supposed to enter. To impose our values specifically on another
family's child is wrong. Or is it ok with you?


I'm not saying that time out is abuse but what if a child is abused?

That is really streching it, don't you think? The op mentioned nothing
about black-eyes or pop knots. Only childish behavior. I think you read to
much in this. Like: what if pigs could fly?

Wouldn't it be helpful to let that child realize that it doesn't go on in
other homes? That there are other options. Kids rationalize that what
goes on in their homes goes on in everyone else's home because they don't
have any other frame of reference.

What if they are visiting another's?


Who knows, maybe this will get the other parents thinking.

You got that right. ( :

Mary E.

--
Dennis

"Rosalie B." wrote:

Do you (the OP) KNOW that the child put her self in a time out - maybe
she was just hiding her face in shame or attempting to disassociate
herself from the accident and you have interpreted as a TO.

The OP wrote: "She said that she was taking her "time out"
because she had done a "bad thing".

No interpretation needed.


P. Tierney

"P. Tierney" wrote:
"Rosalie B." wrote:

Do you (the OP) KNOW that the child put her self in a time out - maybe
she was just hiding her face in shame or attempting to disassociate
herself from the accident and you have interpreted as a TO.

The OP wrote: "She said that she was taking her "time out"
because she had done a "bad thing".

No interpretation needed.

Right, but that is a big deal. Kid's play games under different
circumstances, enviroments and situations, (remember?) there is no real
way to know. She may have been role playing. No one can say for sure, can
we? To make an issue out of it, through their eyes, might be hilarious.
And possibly more harmful than if we, as adults, just let it be.Really a
-minor- issue. jmho.


P.
Tierney

--
Dennis

Bull****, you've always been an abusive piece of crap because you
were abused like that and now crave doing that to kids, but no one
will have any with you.

Hey, I finally got chewed out by perennial troll R. Steve Walz! I almost feel
honored.

well, it is, really. what if the child had dropped her pants & bent over for
a belting?!

Apart from resisting the urge to make "full moon" jokes here, I think that's a
LITTLE ludicrous, and more to the point, is NOT what happened in this instance.

"P. Tierney" wrote:
wrote in message
...
"P. Tierney" wrote:
"Rosalie B." wrote:

Do you (the OP) KNOW that the child put her self in a time out -
maybe she was just hiding her face in shame or attempting to
disassociate herself from the accident and you have interpreted as
a TO.

The OP wrote: "She said that she was taking her "time out"
because she had done a "bad thing".

No interpretation needed.

Right, but that is a big deal. Kid's play games under different
circumstances, enviroments and situations, (remember?) there is no
real way to know. She may have been role playing. No one can say for
sure,
can
we?

Yes, it's possible that instead of putting herself in time out, she
acting out the role of a child who is being put in time out. But
I'll put my money on the former.

Lol, you got more grit than me then. Imo, a risky bet, how would you know?
( :


P.
Tierney

--
Dennis

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:24:04 GMT, "M.E. Mitchell"
wrote:

I don't like "time outs" but if my kids are fighting and
just driving each other and me nuts, I will tell them to
take a break from each other. I tell them to go to their
seperate rooms for awhile. They need the time to
cool off and get out of the crazy/fighting cycle. What
usually happens is they then get mad at me and while
I'm downstairs they apologize to each other and become
friends again.

So, as I don't like the standard "time out", it really doesn't
do any good if it's conditioned and there is no learning
experience (as the OP used the accident as a learning
tool) I do think sometimes kids need a break from
each other and that's when I use it.

The only real use for time-outs is to allow a child to get
control of his temper so that s/he can talk and you can
understand. I think it is fine in this situation for the
children to have a break from each other as long as
they control the timing of returning to playing with each
other. Adults who are angry can do this as well. It's
important to model ways to handle anger that allow them
to get their needs met and to express their anger
appropriately.

The standard time-out doesn't work well to help the child
learn what was unacceptable anyway.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

toto wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:24:04 GMT, "M.E. Mitchell"
wrote:

I don't like "time outs" but if my kids are fighting and
just driving each other and me nuts, I will tell them to
take a break from each other. I tell them to go to their
seperate rooms for awhile. They need the time to
cool off and get out of the crazy/fighting cycle. What
usually happens is they then get mad at me and while
I'm downstairs they apologize to each other and become
friends again.

So, as I don't like the standard "time out", it really doesn't
do any good if it's conditioned and there is no learning
experience (as the OP used the accident as a learning
tool) I do think sometimes kids need a break from
each other and that's when I use it.

The only real use for time-outs is to allow a child to get
control of his temper so that s/he can talk and you can
understand.
I think it is fine in this situation for the
children to have a break from each other as long as
they control the timing of returning to playing with each
other. Adults who are angry can do this as well. It's
important to model ways to handle anger that allow them
to get their needs met and to express their anger
appropriately.

The standard time-out doesn't work well to help the child
learn what was unacceptable anyway.

Well said. And if one takes the precautionay measures to begin with, then
"time-outs" themselves tend to become as those unused tubes of zinc oxcide
tubes. Not the case in every situation and scenario, however.

--
Dennis