| U.N. rules Canada should ban spanking

"Julie Pascal" wrote
Shall we talk about Nuclear Submarines?
I don't know anything about Nuclear Submarines.

Remember the Underdog cartoons about Commander McBragg?
Give Kane time and I'm sure he'll come up with
Nuclear Submarine credentials.
He served in the Boar War also.

I'm told it's a very good opportunity to get
advanced degrees through correspondence.

Between alerts perhaps the ultimate quiet place to read? g

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, LaVonne Carlson wrote:

Actually, Dennis, the proof is not upon you.
What is your evidence that spanking has been
used for centuries with the adverse effects
psychologists claim it has upon children?
Empirical evidence please, Dennis -- not your
opinion. You state this as fact, base your
claim with data supporting your factual statement.

So, you're requiring him to post his "cites"?

And a multitude of studies spanning several
decades exist showing that spanking is linked
to long and short term risk factors and no
studies that show spanking to be preferrable
to alternative forms of discipline that do not
involve hitting, hurting, shaming, or
demeaning a child.

If you have studies that support your position, I'd love to read them.
Please post your sources.

Of course, if you have studies that support
your position, I'd love to read them. Please
post your sources.

Hey, for all I know, you've posted your sources before, but this little
crossposted thread is all I've ever seen of you, and you've posted no such
sources that I've seen.

Jon Houts wrote:

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, LaVonne Carlson wrote:

And a multitude of studies spanning several
decades exist showing that spanking is linked
to long and short term risk factors and no
studies that show spanking to be preferrable
to alternative forms of discipline that do not
involve hitting, hurting, shaming, or
demeaning a child.

If you have studies that support your position, I'd love to read them.
Please post your sources.

I have posted these sources, and updated them since 1996. You can find them
in the archives.

Find them, read them, and lets discuss them.

LaVonne

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, LaVonne Carlson wrote:



Jon Houts wrote:

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, LaVonne Carlson wrote:

And a multitude of studies spanning several
decades exist showing that spanking is linked
to long and short term risk factors and no
studies that show spanking to be preferrable
to alternative forms of discipline that do not
involve hitting, hurting, shaming, or
demeaning a child.

If you have studies that support your position, I'd love to read them.
Please post your sources.

I have posted these sources, and updated them since 1996. You can find them
in the archives.

Find them, read them, and lets discuss them.

LaVonne

LOL! Is this the same LaVonne that has been running away
from debating me for over 16 WEEKS! ;-)

Doan

Kane AKA AKA Frank Andrews
AKA Commander McBrag said he worked at SAC under LeMay.

There was a Frank M Andrews who worked with LeMay and
did great things for what would become the Air Force.
But he died in 1943.
Andrews Air Force Base was named after him.

And our Frank says that he worked under
LeMay in the 1950's?

Was Kane a Frank Junior, working for his deceased
father's old boss? At an air base named for
Frank's Dad?

And yes, is him because he posted
in some homeschooling newsgroups with his personal
fears about Christian Reconstructionism. It's him.

This is what tipped his hand:

From: )
Subject: Not sufficiently spanked........
Newsgroups: alt.parenting.spanking
Date: 2003-10-06 17:32:47 PST

Football Players In Sodomy Case May Be Tried As Adults
Team's Season Canceled

http://www.wftv.com/news/2534849/detail.html

POSTED: 1:14 p.m. EDT October 6, 2003
UPDATED: 2:08 p.m. EDT October 6, 2003

HONESDALE, Pa. -- A prosecutor says he will seek to have three high
school football players from Long Island, N.Y., tried as adults on
charges that they sodomized and hazed younger teammates at a preseason
training camp in northeast Pennsylvania.

Wayne County District Attorney Mark Zimmer held a news conference
Monday, describing the crimes as "horrific."

Three N.Y. high school football players who are accused of sodomizing
younger teammates at a training camp may be tried as adults. They
allegedly sodomized a 13-year-old and two 14-year-olds with a
broomstick, pine cones and golf balls.

Two of the players who are accused are 16 and one is 17. They
allegedly sodomized a 13-year-old and two 14-year-old boys with a
broomstick, pine cones and golf balls.

snip.......click the URL above for the complete story...........

The alleged perps must have come from the 10% or so minority of
children that are "never spanked."

It's obvious that these boys weren't sufficiently spanked by their
parents or they'd have developed consciences and been unable to do
such foul things to others.

Right, Spankers?

Kane

Julie: When you were in a homeschool newsgroup,
did you supect that Frank Andrews
was being such a charmer under the name Kane?

Think of his SAC and LeMay claims and you might
find it interesting that a Frank M Andrews did
serve with LeMay, died in 1943 and Andrews AFB
was named after him.

Is Kane a Frank Jr. claiming to BE their father?
Or some other variety of psycho?
The TEXT BELOW is easily recognizable to readers
of alt.support.child-protective-services as Kane.

wrote in message . com...
Newsgroups: misc.education.home-school.misc, ott.education.homeschooling
Date: 2003-10-20 19:44:30 PST

snip
Exactly!

That's so in tune with our experience. We are long removed from direct
homeschooling - our 4 children are aged 22 to 43 - but the same
principles still apply.

We often got the feeling we so often had to just jump back and give
them room with an occasional foray into doing some rigorous learning
ourselves right along with them. I didn't learn calculus until my
children did.

We are still active in homeschooling politically though, and I try to
read each new book that comes out.

I recently came across a treasure in a book by Ann Larson-Fischer,
Fundamentals of Homeschooling. The title made me think it was going to
be a bore, but she told the truth from my view point...she wrote this
book that can make it possible for anyone looking for a system of
homeschooling to find what they and their family can best apply to
their situation.

This is a gem and going to be one of the great classics of
homeschooling writing. Though it's been out since January I think the
title has kept it from being discovered.

But the libraries are starting to stock more copies of it and renewing
interest in her last book, Homeschooling In Oregon: The Handbook...and
that book had some of the same qualities and it wasn't really all the
limited to Oregon homeschooing issues.

I'm going out and buying some copies for my children for Christmas
presents.

I did a google on the title and author and came up with:

http://nettlepatch.net/homeschool/

The reviews cannot adequately describe the quality of writing and easy
to read style that I found. I wish we'd had this when we started
homeschooling in the 60's.

Frank

(Greg Hanson) wrote in message
. com...
Julie: When you were in a homeschool newsgroup,
did you supect that Frank Andrews
was being such a charmer under the name Kane?

Think of his SAC and LeMay claims and you might
find it interesting that a Frank M Andrews did
serve with LeMay, died in 1943 and Andrews AFB
was named after him.

Is Kane a Frank Jr. claiming to BE their father?
Or some other variety of psycho?
The TEXT BELOW is easily recognizable to readers
of alt.support.child-protective-services as Kane.

Really? What is the "tipoff?"

"Frank" has tried to fake me but not done much of a job of it. In one post he
simply hijacked a post of mine and cancelled out the original in USENET and
google.

wrote in message
. com...
Newsgroups: misc.education.home-school.misc, ott.education.homeschooling
Date: 2003-10-20 19:44:30 PST

snip
Exactly!

That's so in tune with our experience. We are long removed from direct
homeschooling - our 4 children are aged 22 to 43 - but the same
principles still apply.

We often got the feeling we so often had to just jump back and give
them room with an occasional foray into doing some rigorous learning
ourselves right along with them. I didn't learn calculus until my
children did.

We are still active in homeschooling politically though, and I try to
read each new book that comes out.

I recently came across a treasure in a book by Ann Larson-Fischer,
Fundamentals of Homeschooling. The title made me think it was going to
be a bore, but she told the truth from my view point...she wrote this
book that can make it possible for anyone looking for a system of
homeschooling to find what they and their family can best apply to
their situation.

This is a gem and going to be one of the great classics of
homeschooling writing. Though it's been out since January I think the
title has kept it from being discovered.

But the libraries are starting to stock more copies of it and renewing
interest in her last book, Homeschooling In Oregon: The Handbook...and
that book had some of the same qualities and it wasn't really all the
limited to Oregon homeschooing issues.

I'm going out and buying some copies for my children for Christmas
presents.

I did a google on the title and author and came up with:

http://nettlepatch.net/homeschool/

The reviews cannot adequately describe the quality of writing and easy
to read style that I found. I wish we'd had this when we started
homeschooling in the 60's.

Frank

I'm looking for signs of "Kane" in "Frank"'s post and am unable to find any.
Point them out to me.

Kane

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, LaVonne Carlson wrote:

Ray Drouillard wrote:

Pro 23:13 Don't withhold correction
from a child. If you punish him with
the rod, he will not die.

If you advocate everything in the Old
Testament, you advocate capital punishment
for rebellious children, for adulterers,
for women who are not virgins when they
marry. Jesus' disciples tried this
thinking when they desired to stone the
woman at the well. Jesus intervened.
Funny about that, isn't it.

I didn't realize that "Why do You speak with her?" meant "Let's kill her!"
Or, are you somewhere other than John 4?

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, LaVonne Carlson wrote:

Ray Drouillard wrote:

Proverbs is not a book of law, but a book of wise counsel. We are free
to disregard it -- at our own risk, of course. God's wisdom does not
pass away. He may change the rules as the situation merits, but the
wise advice in Proverbs still stands.

So why did Jesus so openly defy the Old Testament? I see nothing in His
words that recommend hitting children with rods as a parenting strategy.
In fact, he recommends a millstone around the neck and being cast into the
depths of the sea for anyone who offends a child.

Most translations say "causes to sin" or "causes to stumble" rather than
"offend."

And when his disciplines
want to stone a woman for wanton behavior )as the OT recommends), he stops
them, forgives the woman, and tells her to "go and sin no more."

That was the scribes and Pharisees, not His disciplines(sic), and they
weren't exactly following the OT law were they, bringing only the woman
like that?

On 12 Oct 2003, Kane wrote:

"Ray Drouillard" wrote

"LaVonne Carlson" wrote

I see nothing in His words that recommend
hitting children with rods as a parenting
strategy.

Correct. Unlike the laws for divorce, he
did not change the counsel regarding child rearing.

Odd, he spoke directely to them and you have have disregarded the
meaning below.

No, Ray's rightly disregarding your (and LaVonne's) misinterpretation of
the passage in question.

In fact, he recommends a millstone around
the neck and being cast into the depths of
the sea for anyone who offends a child.

This would be another great opportunity for Brandon or Kanga to explain to
us how the archaic (Webster's lists the meaning of "offend" above as being
"obsolete") language of the KJV isn't misleading to a modern reader.