GM bonuses cut because of child support

"T.J." wrote in message
...


The average support payment today is around 4500 a year. Thats like 375
per
child. Food, clothing, educational expenses, daycare, etc are basic needs
and unless you are living in another world I dont think that would pay for
such luxury items as you proposed.

Assuming your numbers are correct, let's look at what that means for the NCP
father and the child. The father has to earn over $8,100 in gross pay to be
able to pay a net $4,500 per year in CS. And the $375 per month is, on
average, 60% of the total CS order. When the CP mother's 40% portion is
added to the father's contribution each child gets $625 per month.

Oh I see.. so im just automatically lumped in because you "think" I support
something..good reasoning, NOT.

"Dave" Dave@freedoms-door wrote in message
...

"T.J." wrote in message
...

"Dave" Dave@freedoms-door wrote in message
...


Men have no rights. My child only has a part time father now because
of
assholes like TJ that take advantage and support this ****.

So you just clump all CP's into this huge group of people like your ex??
Sorry I dont do those types of things and I dont keep my ex from seeing
his
children. He chooses to do so. Stop thinking that all CP's are like
your
ex, because they arent.


I did not lump all CPs in the category. I people like you in that
category
since you defend the atrocities of the system.

Well I support my children more than 50%, but I guess that doesnt matter.
Furthermore it takes two to make a child.. not one.

"Dave" Dave@freedoms-door wrote in message
...
Men and women are equal, right? If these women cannot afford to support
the
kids 50/50 then they should turn over custody to the man. As far as
keeping
it in his pants it works both ways. They should have kept their legs
closed
if they cannot afford to support a child 50%.

"T.J." wrote in message
...

" TJ, it is WRONG for a man to be charged a ruinous amount of child
support.

Its wrong to assume that all men have been charged a ruinous amount of
child
support. Example. My good friend has two children. Doesnt live with
any
boyfriends, works full time. The child support amount is set at 500 per
month for two children. Ex pays child support and can easily support
himself. Ex goes out and gets remarried, at first pays support. Then
cries
he cant support his new wife and her previous child because the support
amount is now too much. Ex then goes out and has another child. Cries
again that he cant support his new wife, her previuos child an now his
new
child. Ex gets a divorce and now has to pay support for the other
child.
Now has TWO support orders totalling 700 a month, for three children.
Ex
cries he cant afford to pay support and live. Ex gets married to a
THIRD
wife and is expecting another child. Ex cries he cant support his frist
two
children, his third child, and now cant support his wife and his new
child.

Now where in this long saga did the ex deserve to get his child support
reduced to any of the children? Why should any of these children get
less
financial support becuase the ex cant keep his dick in his pants?

Who's
fault is it that he cant support himself any longer? Is it wrong that
this
man has to have two jobs to support his children and himself? I dont
think
so.


It is WRONG to force a man to live in poverty just so he can afford
those
child support payments. The children should have their NEEDS met, but
the
father should not have to live in a one bedroom hovel just so the
children
can have sports, dance lessons, summer camp, and other luxury items.

It must be nice to have a child support amount that can provide all
that!!!
I sure dont know anyone that gets that much child support to pay for all
those things. However I suppose if a child would have had those things
if
the two were married then they should have them if the parents arent
married
.

If mom
and dad were still married, and dad's financial situation took a
downturn,
the children would do without the luxury items, and no judge in the
country
would step in and say "You owe your children the lifestyle they had
when
you
were making more money!" Yet it happens to divorced dads every day.

Unfortuneatly you should be going after deadbeats who abuse the system,
not
all CP's. The reason the system has certain rules in place is because
of
people who have in the past abused the system. The reason judges dont
make
changes to the NCP's amount when they hit a downturn is because so many
deadbeats change to lower paying jobs to get thier support lowered then
go
out immediately following and get higher paying jobs.

Yes,
the children's needs should be a priority--but the fathers NEEDS
should
come
before the children's luxuries.

The average support payment today is around 4500 a year. Thats like 375
per
child. Food, clothing, educational expenses, daycare, etc are basic
needs
and unless you are living in another world I dont think that would pay
for
such luxury items as you proposed.

NCPs should not be forced to live in
poverty.

Hmm.. and the children should? I believe a HUGE portion of single
parents
do live in poverty and most of those dont receive any types of child
support. I guess its ok if those families are in poverty but not the
NCP's???

I don't think Angel is asking her husband to put her needs before
the children's needs. I think she is complaining that the children
are
being supported far more than adequately

by someone else, not the childrens father

, and there is not enough left after
child support to adequately meet his needs,

His needs being what exactly??

andyet the mother wants more,
more, more.

She does? Or does she just want him to pay what he should pay by law?

I actually looked it up based on 1999 figures from the US Census Bureau
(most current that I could find)

Average Child support Due (this includes all support orders,not per child):
$4755
Average Child support Received: $2791

Average cost of raising ONE child born this year for a single parent family
making less than 38,000 living in the midwest is: 189,810 over an 18 year
period. Breaks down to about 878.00 a month, or 10,545 per year.(see where
statistics came from below) So now tell me again what that means for the
NCP???

So lets just look at this in an example based on the statistics above, One
child in the home.
NCP is ordered to pay 4755 per year of child support. Thats $396 per month.
NCP pays (based on the average figures) 232.58 per month or 2791 per year.
CP has to come up with on the average, 878.00 per month to pay for ONE
child. That means that EVEN if the NCP paid his total amount of child
support due for the eyar the CP would be responsible for 482.00 per month
(more than the NCP) and if the NCP pays on average 232.58 per month, then
the CP has to come up with 645.42 per month to raise the child.
So tell me .. how it is that you NCP's have such a hard time and bad deal???
Now I understand that these figures are the average and there are going to
be cases that fall to extreme left and right of this, but this is the
GENERAL picture of what is happening.

(These figures are averages drawn from the U.S. Department of Agriculture's
2000 Annual Report Expenditures on Children by Families. Here's what's
included in each expense category:
Housing: Includes the extra amount you'll spend annually on shelter
(mortgage interest, property taxes, or rent; maintenance and repairs;
insurance), utilities (gas, electricity, fuel, telephone, and water), and
home furnishings and equipment (furniture, floor coverings, major
appliances, and small appliances) if you have a child. Mortgage principal
payments are considered savings and are not included.
Food: Includes the extra amount you'll spend annually on food and
nonalcoholic beverages purchased at grocery, convenience, and specialty
stores; dining at restaurants; and school meals if you have a child.
Transportation: Includes the extra amount you'll spend annually to buy new
and used vehicles, vehicle finance charges, gasoline and motor oil,
maintenance and repairs, insurance, and public transportation if you have a
child.
Clothing: Includes the average amount you'll spend annually on your child's
apparel such as diapers, shirts, pants, dresses, and suits; footwear; and
clothing services such as dry cleaning, alterations and repair, and storage.
Healthca Includes the average amount you'll spend annually on your
child's medical and dental expenses not covered by insurance, prescription
drugs and medical supplies not covered by insurance, and health insurance
premiums not paid by your employer or other organizations.
Childcare and education: Includes the average amount you'll spend annually
on your child's day care tuition and supplies; babysitting; and elementary
and high school tuition, books, and supplies.
Miscellaneous: Includes the average amount you'll spend annually on your
child's personal care items, entertainment, and reading materials

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
nk.net...

Assuming your numbers are correct, let's look at what that means for the
NCP
father and the child. The father has to earn over $8,100 in gross pay to
be
able to pay a net $4,500 per year in CS. And the $375 per month is, on
average, 60% of the total CS order. When the CP mother's 40% portion is
added to the father's contribution each child gets $625 per month.

"gini52" wrote in message
...

"T.J." wrote in message
...
"Dave" Dave@freedoms-door wrote in message
...
Listen dick head, it that makes no sense to punish 97% of all fathers
for
the actions of the dead beat 3%, who mind you if they want to be dead
beats
and evade no matter what laws are on the books these guys will find
away
out
it.

Um actually there are WAY more than 97% of fathers who are deadbeats,
lol.
==
Statistics?
==
==


See previous post.

"Dave" Dave@freedoms-door wrote in message
...

"T.J." wrote in message
...

"Dave" Dave@freedoms-door wrote in message
...

Due to the 1986 Bradley amendment a Judge cannot eliminate those
arreages
even if the man is disabled or dieing. T.J is one sick **** for
supporting
crimes like this.

Hey you owe the money you should pay it. There are however statute of
limiations on how long a person can collect the arrearages in each
state.
SOme have no limiations and others do. So on your theory, if a person
is
dying or disabled they should have their past debts erased? SO if you
have
a mortgage on a house and get sick or are dying a judge should eliminate
that debt? Credit cards? Utilities? Food?


They should be able to have enough money to pay for their life saving
prescription medications and medical care, food and roof over their head
before they have to pay lifestyle, no accountability child support to a
mother that is making a decent living.



Divorced families should be treated no different than single or intact
families. When someone is ill or falls on hard times they make
exceptions.

Yes, and as ive said before thats fine. However, the system has rules due
to deadbeats who abuse the system.

If both Mom and Dad are making 60k a year and they are both willing to
spend
equal time with the child, then why is it fair that the father pays in
excess of $800 a month. Clearly that figure is lifestyle child support
for
which the mother is not held accountable that this money is used for their
childs, clothes, future, etc.

So your children should not be allowed to share in the same lifestyle as if
you two were together?? Furthermore, the money goes to her because someone
has to be able to pay for those things. Where do the children physically
live, who takes them shopping, buys most of their meals, etc. Or are you
going to go shopping with your ex for everything, go to the school and pay
50% of the bill, or does she just pay all those things automatically??


The father is then left with little or no money after taxes to support the
child or put away money for the child future. Then if the father loses
his
job how is it fair that he should have to pay arrearages on a lifestyle
child support reward?

If the father legitimately loses a job and makes an attempt to find
something in the same field but it pays less than that amount should be
adjusted. Like ive said before there are NCP's that take lower paying jobs
to get support lowered then go out an get higher paying jobs. They abuse
the system. You should take a stand against those who do such things
because they make your life a living hell.

The current support calculations are based on the before tax incomes of EACH
parent. So you are saying the NCP should get a break and the CP shouldnt??
Is that correct or that both parents incomes should be inputted after taxes
are taken out??



"Dave" Dave@freedoms-door wrote in message
...

It should be based on after taxes and you should not be taxed on it (CSA
should not take their cut)..

"T.J." wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...


The unfairness, TJ is that the dad pays all the taxes on the money, but
gets
absolutely no tax benefits from paying the taxes on the money that he
supplies for child support. Unless otherwise ordered, the CP gets every
penny of tax advantage. Think about doing your taxes every April.
There
is
a whole lot of benefit to being able to claim your children on your
taxes.
Even though the NCP meets his financial obligations, he receives none of
those tax benefits.

The reason those taxes credits were designed (EITC) was to help families
meet needs that have children in the home. Not for a NCP that sees the
kids
once a week or even at all to take those credits and use them for their
own
benefits.

So let's see. My husband pays 85% of his daughter's living expenses--per
court order. Lifestyle support, mind you. Not bare bones existence. Her
mother does not work, but has minimum wage imputed to her for CS accounting
purposes. She pays $0 dollars per month toward her child's upkeep. And SHE
deserves the tax benefits? Why?

T.J. wrote:


"gini52" wrote in message
...

"T.J." wrote in message
...
"Dave" Dave@freedoms-door wrote in message
...
Listen dick head, it that makes no sense to punish 97% of all
fathers
for
the actions of the dead beat 3%, who mind you if they want to
be dead
beats
and evade no matter what laws are on the books these guys will
find
away
out
it.

Um actually there are WAY more than 97% of fathers who are
deadbeats,
lol.
==
Statistics?
==
==


See previous post.

What's the source of those statistics?

What's the source of those statistics?

As stated: 1999 US Census Report
and the US Department of Agriculture's 2000 Annual Report Expenditures