should I put 3 yo son back in diapers? LONG

Hi,

I am new here and have read some of the previous posts, which have
been helpful to an extent. Some background: 3y 1 mo boy is middle
child, 3rd baby just born in May, we moved cross country away from
relatives in July. We struggled a bit with potty over the summer, we
could tell when he had to go, but he didn't want to sit, horrible
screaming and fits. Then, start of August, he all of a sudden starts
going all by himself, pee and poop, no fits, no reminding, no
accidents. Even staying dry most nights. Must tell you also that there
was some bribery involved. After about 2 weeks, we started phasing out
the treats AND his big bro went to school. Suddenly DS makes an
anouncement "No more pooping in the potty". He would still go pee
whenever he needed to, and save his poops for his pullup at naptime.
After a few weeks of this, he lost his binky (seemed to get through
that okay) and I was advised to try putting him in underpants for his
nap (no more pullups). Then he started saving it for his nighttime
diaper and having small occasional poop accidents during the day.
Around this time he started a Mother's day out program (which he
loves) 4 mornings a week. At first, he was staying dry and clean and
using the potty to pee at school (still does). But lately at home we
have to remind him to use the potty even to pee (and he has been
having some pee accidents), he still refuses to poop on it (breaks out
in a cold sweat), and he has been having poop accidents at school. On
Friday the school said that if he won't poop on the potty (they tried
too) he would have to come to school in a pull up--the reverse of many
people's situations, I know, but most of the other kids in a program
are still 2, so he is one of the only ones who has been coming in
underwear. They are prepared to change a pullup or diaper, but not
poopy underpants. I asked him what he wanted, and he said a pullup,
but quickly changed his mind and said underpants, I think he is as
frustrated and conflicted as we are. Not to be gross, but it is
getting to the point where all I smell is poop, it seems like the odor
from rinsing his underwear has seeped into my pores...

We have tried bribery, both immediate rewards and larger toys and
such; taking away tv (he didn't watch for a month); taking away prized
possessions and giving them back for success; having him help clean up
his messes; cool washcloth cleanup, baths, showers; putting him in his
room; yelling and getting mad; being calm and loving; acting like we
don't care; just about everything I 've read about I've tried, except
spanking, which I won't do. With the "bribes", he just says "When I
poop on the potty I will get such and such!", but it won't make him
go. The other day he actually apologized to me for having another
accident. I felt horrible.

Should I put him back in pullups for a while to give us all a break,
or will that just set him back further? Since he will be wearing them
for school, it seems like a good time to try this. My other thought is
(aside from school) to just offer him the choice--pullup or
underpants. I just don't want to undo the little progress he HAS made
in peeing 90% of the time on the potty. If I do offer him pullups, how
long should I offer for? 1 week, 1 month, until he decides otherwise?

Sorry for rambling, if anyone has ANY advice I would so, so, so
appreciate it.

Thanks!

"mia" wrote in message
m...
Hi,

I am new here and have read some of the previous posts, which have
been helpful to an extent. Some background: 3y 1 mo boy is middle
child, 3rd baby just born in May, we moved cross country away from
relatives in July. We struggled a bit with potty over the summer, we
could tell when he had to go, but he didn't want to sit, horrible
screaming and fits. Then, start of August, he all of a sudden starts
going all by himself, pee and poop, no fits, no reminding, no
accidents. Even staying dry most nights. Must tell you also that there
was some bribery involved. After about 2 weeks, we started phasing out
the treats AND his big bro went to school. Suddenly DS makes an
anouncement "No more pooping in the potty". He would still go pee
whenever he needed to, and save his poops for his pullup at naptime.

Rule # 1) He will put his pee and poop where he wants to.

After a few weeks of this, he lost his binky (seemed to get through
that okay) and I was advised to try putting him in underpants for his
nap (no more pullups). Then he started saving it for his nighttime
diaper and having small occasional poop accidents during the day.
Around this time he started a Mother's day out program (which he
loves) 4 mornings a week. At first, he was staying dry and clean and
using the potty to pee at school (still does). But lately at home we
have to remind him to use the potty even to pee (and he has been
having some pee accidents), he still refuses to poop on it (breaks out
in a cold sweat),

If he is breaking out in a cold sweat, he is obviously afraid of the toilet.
Although I do it all the time, it is not as easy as it seems to poop on a
toilet. Our muscles and body design are better designed for pooping in a
squatting position than a sitting position. And if he has had a painful poop
on a potty, he may associate the painful poop with using the potty.

and he has been having poop accidents at school. On
Friday the school said that if he won't poop on the potty (they tried
too) he would have to come to school in a pull up--the reverse of many
people's situations, I know, but most of the other kids in a program
are still 2, so he is one of the only ones who has been coming in
underwear. They are prepared to change a pullup or diaper, but not
poopy underpants. I asked him what he wanted, and he said a pullup,
but quickly changed his mind and said underpants, I think he is as
frustrated and conflicted as we are.

He might also be confused because he is the only one in his school who is
old enough to wear underwear. Sometimes kids feel a loss when they don't
get the same care as other kids. Perhaps if he is around kids his age whom
he can watch while they poop on the potty, that would help.

Not to be gross, but it is
getting to the point where all I smell is poop, it seems like the odor
from rinsing his underwear has seeped into my pores...

We have tried bribery, both immediate rewards and larger toys and
such; taking away tv (he didn't watch for a month); taking away prized
possessions and giving them back for success; having him help clean up
his messes; cool washcloth cleanup, baths, showers; putting him in his
room; yelling and getting mad;

Rule # 2: It is his poop and pee. Parents lose any struggle over it.

being calm and loving; acting like we
don't care; just about everything I 've read about I've tried, except
spanking, which I won't do. With the "bribes", he just says "When I
poop on the potty I will get such and such!", but it won't make him
go. The other day he actually apologized to me for having another
accident. I felt horrible.

I think I would have a talk with him. I would ask him what is bothering him.

The solution that I would come up with is that he gets to wear big-boy
underwear. When he has to poop, he tells us. And then you put a pullup on
him and let him poop.

What you don't want him to do is to hold in his poop. What happens is that
when he holds in his poop, his poop becomes hard and dry, which is not easy
to pass. Then he has pain when he poops. Then he holds his poop in more.
Then it hurts more. Then he has lots of problems with constipation. It is
much better to have him poop in his diapers than to withhold his poop.

I would also give him a reward everytime he poops in a diaper or potty (big
reward here). It is much better for him to poop when he needs to poop than
to hold it in.

As far as his using the potty, make sure he can sit with his feet on the
ground (imagine if you had to poop on a huge toilet and your feet where just
hanging there) and has a comfortable place to sit. And he will use the
toilet when he is psycholgoically ready. Which might not be for a while,
until he has gotton over whatever scared him. (And something did scare him -
remember the cold sweat.)

Should I put him back in pullups for a while to give us all a break,
or will that just set him back further? Since he will be wearing them
for school, it seems like a good time to try this. My other thought is
(aside from school) to just offer him the choice--pullup or
underpants. I just don't want to undo the little progress he HAS made
in peeing 90% of the time on the potty. If I do offer him pullups, how
long should I offer for? 1 week, 1 month, until he decides otherwise?

I wouldn't worry too much about his peeing in pullups. As far as wearing
pullups to school, I would just say to him he has to wear pullups to school
for now. When he learns to poop on the toilet, he can wear underwear again.
And if he wears underwear at home (except when pooping), he won't get
confused.

Sorry for rambling, if anyone has ANY advice I would so, so, so
appreciate it.

Thanks!

Hi -

If your son has been retaining his poop, he MAY have an actual, physical
problem by now. Try putting him on a daily regimen of mineral oil AND
have him TRY to poop every morning and evening. (He can use the potty
OR the pullup, his choice.) After a week or two, the accidents are
likely to resolve and you can go off the regimen. (His colon will have
emptied out and he'll have control over his bowels again.)

Beyond that, ASK him if he'd like to wear underpants or a pullup.
Ground rules should be that underpants MUST be kept clean, and for
pullups he gets a reward if they're kept clean. (Reward for keeping the
pullup dry, since it's tempting to just pee into it. Reward for
notifying when he needs to poo, and make sure he does it in the
bathroom, even if it's into a pullup.)

Explicitly letting your child know he's in control, setting some ground
rules, and offering rewards, should pay off.

Good luck,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

Explicitly letting your child know he's in control...

I have a problem with letting a child "control" any situation, really, although
granted in the case of relief efforts the parents have limited ability.

I wonder if there's an emotional reason behind this. Something up with regard
to his siblings, or his school, or even the toilet. I would do everything
possible to find out and resolve it.

On 21 Oct 2003 03:37:43 GMT, (GI Trekker) wrote:

I have a problem with letting a child "control" any situation, really, although
granted in the case of relief efforts the parents have limited ability.

You are in for a shock.

Kids control their own bodies in terms of eating and eliminating and
sleeping and there is really nothing anyone can do that will change
that fact no matter how hard they try.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

"GI Trekker" wrote in message
...
Explicitly letting your child know he's in control...

I have a problem with letting a child "control" any situation, really,
although
granted in the case of relief efforts the parents have limited ability.

I see a lot of parents like this, but it seems that life in their household
always tends to be more stressful and there is always an underlying power
struggle, even for minor little things. Maybe not in your house, but that's
what I see.

I had a set back with my son when it came to potty training..... he had
been doing really well in pull ups and we had gotten him inot underwear for
the day.....then he started peeing in the underpants....... luckily for us
it was summer...30 degrees...warm as could be....so he's out in the back
yard and he comes to us to say his legs are burning...they hurt.....he peed.
This went on for a few days and then it was no trouble.... he hasn't had
many accidents since.

You can do whatever you think is best...the thing is... he will do what he
wants when he is ready....boys are slower then girls in th toilet training
department....,my son was 4 in August and he was just trained in time to
start Junior Kindergarden. If he is not ready ...you can put on him a
pull up a diaper or underpants.....it won't matter..... and I think from
what you said in your post your best option is to ask him..."pull ups
....diapers or underpants. You are lucky because most playgroups will only
take 3 yrs olds that are trained. I know the preschool in my town was only
going to take him if he could go to the toilet himself,.

Karen
"mia" wrote in message
m...
Hi,

I am new here and have read some of the previous posts, which have
been helpful to an extent. Some background: 3y 1 mo boy is middle
child, 3rd baby just born in May, we moved cross country away from
relatives in July. We struggled a bit with potty over the summer, we
could tell when he had to go, but he didn't want to sit, horrible
screaming and fits. Then, start of August, he all of a sudden starts
going all by himself, pee and poop, no fits, no reminding, no
accidents. Even staying dry most nights. Must tell you also that there
was some bribery involved. After about 2 weeks, we started phasing out
the treats AND his big bro went to school. Suddenly DS makes an
anouncement "No more pooping in the potty". He would still go pee
whenever he needed to, and save his poops for his pullup at naptime.
After a few weeks of this, he lost his binky (seemed to get through
that okay) and I was advised to try putting him in underpants for his
nap (no more pullups). Then he started saving it for his nighttime
diaper and having small occasional poop accidents during the day.
Around this time he started a Mother's day out program (which he
loves) 4 mornings a week. At first, he was staying dry and clean and
using the potty to pee at school (still does). But lately at home we
have to remind him to use the potty even to pee (and he has been
having some pee accidents), he still refuses to poop on it (breaks out
in a cold sweat), and he has been having poop accidents at school. On
Friday the school said that if he won't poop on the potty (they tried
too) he would have to come to school in a pull up--the reverse of many
people's situations, I know, but most of the other kids in a program
are still 2, so he is one of the only ones who has been coming in
underwear. They are prepared to change a pullup or diaper, but not
poopy underpants. I asked him what he wanted, and he said a pullup,
but quickly changed his mind and said underpants, I think he is as
frustrated and conflicted as we are. Not to be gross, but it is
getting to the point where all I smell is poop, it seems like the odor
from rinsing his underwear has seeped into my pores...

We have tried bribery, both immediate rewards and larger toys and
such; taking away tv (he didn't watch for a month); taking away prized
possessions and giving them back for success; having him help clean up
his messes; cool washcloth cleanup, baths, showers; putting him in his
room; yelling and getting mad; being calm and loving; acting like we
don't care; just about everything I 've read about I've tried, except
spanking, which I won't do. With the "bribes", he just says "When I
poop on the potty I will get such and such!", but it won't make him
go. The other day he actually apologized to me for having another
accident. I felt horrible.

Should I put him back in pullups for a while to give us all a break,
or will that just set him back further? Since he will be wearing them
for school, it seems like a good time to try this. My other thought is
(aside from school) to just offer him the choice--pullup or
underpants. I just don't want to undo the little progress he HAS made
in peeing 90% of the time on the potty. If I do offer him pullups, how
long should I offer for? 1 week, 1 month, until he decides otherwise?

Sorry for rambling, if anyone has ANY advice I would so, so, so
appreciate it.

Thanks!

Sounds like things have gotten out of hand; personally, I would put an
end to it by going back to diapers (pullups for school if that helps
them there).
The point of going back to diapers would be to end the stress that
appear to be associated with peeing and pooping now -- to make them a
nonissue for a while. 3 years, 1 mo is not that old to be in diapers
these days. But a side benefit of the diapers may be that your DS
doesn't like going back into them (he may se it as a step back toward
babyhood) and will be more motivated to do well next time he moves
into pants again.

I would not make the return to diapers seem like a punishment. Tell
him that you think he isn't ready for panst yet, what with all the
accidents, so you guys'll try pants later. In a few months, bring it
up again. When you do go back to it, set up a small and finite reward
system. For example, tell him he can have 4 M&Ms (or similar) whenever
he uses the toilet until he seems to have it down. Tell him that at
that point, he will stop geting the M&Ms but you'll buy him X -- some
special toy he really wants.

IMO, there is no big rush. My oldest, a DS, was simply never
interested in getting out of diapers. He didn't care if it was
babyish; the advantage of never having to stop what you were doing to
poop elsewhere was worth it to him. Three few months before he turned
4, I gave him 2 weeks' notice that he'd be giving up diapers. I
reminded him of it periodically throughout the 2-week period. Then,
one Friday after preschool, I put him in pants. He pooped in his pant
twice that same night; I felt sure this was done in angry protest, so
I gave him a load of hell; he never had another accident again. There
was no "toilet training" at that advanced age. I thought it was
perfect.

Watch out for the poop withholding. That can be a really tough nut to
crack. My DD chose to toilet train at 3.5 in order to take a ballet
class she really wanted to take. She immediately started withholding
her poops until bedtime, when we would put her in a diaper for the
night. When we told her to stop doing that, and to stop using the
diapers for poops, she stopped pooping -- at all. This is not good!
She's now 5.5 and over these past 2 years, we've had ups and downs,
the downs being periods when she doesn't go for a while, which results
in lots of little accidents and then painful toilet experiences. So,
make sure poop comes out regularly once he's back on the toilet! If it
doesn't talk to your doctor.

"GI Trekker" wrote in message
...
Explicitly letting your child know he's in control...
I have a problem with letting a child "control" any situation, really,
although granted in the case of relief efforts the parents have limited
ability.

toypup wrote in message
I see a lot of parents like this, but it seems that life in their
household
always tends to be more stressful and there is always an underlying power
struggle, even for minor little things. Maybe not in your house, but
that's
what I see.

Your in for a surprise then, if you don't let children control some aspects
of their lives. Three year olds like to be able to have control over what
they wear, what they eat and if they use the potty or not. Certainly you
can't give them total control, but giving them limited choices and control
over some things will mean that they will grow up secure in their decision
making process. If you micromanage them to death, that imo, has a greater
source of stress in the house because the child is always resistent to
anything the parents want them to do.

And I don't mean that the child should have control over everything.
Certainly, there are things that need to be done that the child needs to
participate in to make a house run smoothly and they also need to listen to
the rules. The houses you see that are in great stress are the ones who
don't disipline the children at all and let them control everything in their
lives.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

Sue wrote in :

Your in for a surprise then, if you don't let children control some
aspects of their lives. Three year olds like to be able to have control
over what they wear, what they eat and if they use the potty or not.
Certainly you can't give them total control, but giving them limited
choices and control over some things will mean that they will grow up
secure in their decision making process. If you micromanage them to death,
that imo, has a greater source of stress in the house because the child is
always resistent to anything the parents want them to do.

I agree. Adults don't control children directly: they only control their
reactions to a child's behaviour, and that may affect the child enough that
they do what the adult wants.

--

Penny Gaines