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What has hapenned to this group?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 23rd 05, 12:55 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
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Default What has hapenned to this group?

Fellow parents:

What has happenned to this newsgroup? It used to consist primarily of
parenets like myself, parents that know that when spanking is used as a
loving discliplinary tool, it is very effective. Parents that wanted to be
able to discuss this with other parents that felt the same way. Recently
however it seems to consist more of people that simply want to argue with
each other. I.E. people like Kane and LaVonne. These two people have
somehow managed to convince themselves that they are enlightened in some
way, or that they are intellectually superior to the other members here, or
some other thing. They are neither of course. When I first joined this
group I tried to debate with them, however they do not debate, they dictate.
Debating means that you are willing to listen to ther other person's
opinion, however they are totally obtuse. They are so convinced that their
own opinion is right that your opinion must be wrong. If you disagree with
them you must be a horrible person and you are abusive toward your children.
When they run out of logical arguments, they resort to insults. In their
world if you spank your children it means that you are an ingorant redneck,
and probably a pedophile with latent homesexual tendencies as well. Kane
has even implied that I spank my children because I get sexually aroused
when I do so. I have an 8year old and a 5 year old daughter and a 2 year
old son. I use spanking for all three of them because it works. And this
drives them crazy because I refuse to convert over to their narrow point of
view. From their viewpoint, if I am spanking my children I must have some
alterior motive, they cannot accept the fact that there are times when
spanking is the best way to handle the situation. And that I spank my
children because I love them and because IT WORKS!

I have stopped reading anything by either of them and I refuse to reply to
anything they say. I am sure they will have something to say about this
post but I will not read or respond to it. Not because I am admitting that
they must be right or because I can't think of anything to say, I simply
refuse to discuss anything with either of them because they refuse to
listen. I encourage others to follow suit.

Jeremy J



  #2  
Old December 23rd 05, 09:48 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
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Posts: n/a
Default What has hapenned to this group?


Jeremy James wrote:
Fellow parents:

What has happenned to this newsgroup? It used to consist primarily of
parenets like myself, parents that know that when spanking is used as a
loving discliplinary tool, it is very effective.


Those you refer to were only part of the group. Nor were they primary
except in number. They lacked primacy in argument. Unable to support
their view sufficiently to feel they were in like company and
comfortable they chose to leave.

Parents that wanted to be
able to discuss this with other parents that felt the same way.


The World Wide Web is world wide. There are many places within it to
find those who make you feel comfortable with your choice. If you wish
not to be challenged, then I would suggest another place than this. It
was not established for you alone.

Recently
however it seems to consist more of people that simply want to argue with
each other. I.E. people like Kane and LaVonne.


LaVonne and I argue with each other? Novel Idea. Yes, I can think of a
couple of areas worth arging about with LaVonne. Let me see....maybe a
discussion of how much damage to humanity the use of corporal
punishment has caused. I'd be happy to take the "less" side and offer
her the "more" side. But, whichever, it's worth discussing.

These two people have
somehow managed to convince themselves that they are enlightened in some
way,


No, we simply read, experience, think. It's not hard, honest.

Then we come to conclusions which we modify over time based on new
evidence.

Again, thinking. It's not hard, honest. Not for those that practice it
regularly. It is apparently very hard for those that have a single view
on spanking though and need to adhere to it and seek out only like
minded folks to discuss it wiht. Notice that LaVonne and I are not
hanging out in a 'anti spanking' environment?

or that they are intellectually superior to the other members here, or
some other thing.


Well let me see. First let me remove your attempt to ghettoize LaVonne
and I into a small group of our own. I am Kane, she is LaVonne, and
likely if we explored spanking issues enough we'd find things to debate
from different perspectives.

She comes from education (among other experiences) and I from mental
health, professionall.

They are neither of course.


Of course. Intellectual ability isn't a prerequisite for thinking. One
can do a very workmanlike job of taking you folks apart and exposing
your yellow bellies without a lot of intellectual strain. Those that
think have that unfair advantage over those that babble jingoistic
myth.

When I first joined this
group I tried to debate with them, however they do not debate, they dictate.


No you didn't. You are projecting like mad. The folks in this ng that
do not advocate spanking have made it a practice to debate, rather than
babble slogans. We are the one's that most go to academia, and share
out own experience, two ends of an argument, both valid.

The spankers hide.

I, personally, and I'll bet LaVonne as well, practiced our nonspanking
publically, with never a complaint or a call to CPS by anyone. Fancy
that.

Debating means that you are willing to listen to ther other person's
opinion, however they are totally obtuse.


Please give some examples where either of us...no, let's keep this
between you and I for the moment, as LV can handle her own debate, give
ME some examples where I failed to listen.

If it did so, I'd be happy to extend that courtesy to you now, if you'd
care to take advantage of it.

What I actually saw most often was that the spanker compulsives, upon
facing solid evidence, clear and unadulterated logic, simply ran.
Babbling as they went out the door, of course.

They are so convinced that their
own opinion is right that your opinion must be wrong.


Well, that is one possible outcome in debate. And in spanking, since
it's hard to call it spanking if it's not, and there are no real
gradiations in the term (though there can be in the act...somewhat) one
is right, or one is wrong.

If you disagree with
them you must be a horrible person and you are abusive toward your children.


No, that is a lie. We have considered and even posted data that deals
with spanking that is deemed by the author as non-abusive. We'd hardly
use that if we believed all spanking to be "abusive."

I certainly have said often enough that there is a line between the two
lacking. One cannot tell when one is being abusive and one is
not.....and I'd hardly make such a distinction if I believed all and
every "spank" was in fact abuse.

The issue is unresolved. I suspect it will never be otherwise, since
humans are so disparate in the experience of a similar event. What is a
tap to one child is horrendous injury to another, and given our
capacity for self protection, the latter is more likely to be covered
up by the vulnerable child than the former.

When they run out of logical arguments, they resort to insults.


Asshole!

Oh, excuse me, was that a "logical argument" on your part, or an
"insult?" I mistakenly took if for the latter, possibly, and responded
in kind...the only way I deliberately insult, unless I detect a
deliberate lie.

You just deliberately lied, sir! It's a habit among the spanked and the
spanking compulsive advocates.

In their
world if you spank your children it means that you are an ingorant redneck,


I have never claimed all spankers are ignorant rednecks. Some are
intelligent rednecks. Some are ignorant and not rednecks, and some are
damaged beyond their own noting compulsives.

and probably a pedophile with latent homesexual tendencies as well.


Nearly everyone (some researchers claim all) has some "latent
homesexual[sic] tendencies. So of course your claim could be correct
about me, had I made that connection. I did not.

As coming from a mental health background I tend not to make those
distinctions in child abuse or spanking.

Don't assume that because some pedophiles use causing pain as part of
their arrousal that I would suggest that you all do, and are thus all
pedophiles.

Examples are to make a point, not to accuse everyone.

The point with masochists is that a great many of them were indeed
spanked as children and they themselves identify it with their adult
perversion.

Kane
has even implied that I spank my children because I get sexually aroused
when I do so.


Please refer us to the thread where you think I implied that. Let's see
on what I would base such an implication and if you might have deserved
it. Or did I ask you questions about it?

I have an 8year old and a 5 year old daughter and a 2 year
old son. I use spanking for all three of them because it works.


"Works" is an highly subjective term in the subject of child rearing.
Lots of things seem to be something they are not, including successful.


I can usually get a horse to jump a ditch by beating him...once. The
next time we approach the ditch what do you think the horse might do?

Now humans are more complex. and we are soooo much bigger than little
children, but they will find a way to "throw" us, now or later, often
later.

And this
drives them crazy


Being concerned about the safety and possible injury of children
indicates mental illness?

Please provide some examples, and a logical explanation of your claim.
I've not heard of the "don't hit the children" syndrome before.

because I refuse to convert over to their narrow point of
view.


Odd.

How is it that spanking compulsives continually assume that
"non-spanking" is the only thing an advocate for child rearing in more
painless ways is advocating for? In fact, I think I've even posted here
about a much broader repertoire being considered.

In fact, and I'm sorry you missed the post apparently, I've posted
active links to sources for replacing even the need to spank.

From their viewpoint, if I am spanking my children I must have some
alterior motive, they cannot accept the fact that there are times when
spanking is the best way to handle the situation.


That's because in the course of thinking about this issue, and child
rearing in general, we have discovered that you are wrong. There is
never a time when "spanking is the best way to handle a situation."
It's just he way you chose over others that you might either not know
about, or have not learn how to do.

And that I spank my
children because I love them and because IT WORKS!


As the word "works" is subjective, "love" is ten times moreso.

There is love that is full of concern. Love that is attachment and can
be anything from tender to murderous. People use the term "love" rather
a lot to mean many things that are quite dissimilar.

I presume by your use you wish the best for your children, and regard
them highly, and have a tender heart when you think of them.

How is it you then hit them?

You know somewhere in you, probably going back to that baby you once
were that had not been spanked yet, that a hit from a parent can change
a child's perception of herself and the universe in ways so profound it
amounts to the single flap of a butterfly's wing at the equator that
results in tornados in Kansas.

Look at our world.

There has been a pretty universal use of pain to raise children for a
very long time now over a widespread area.

Would you say we live in a universally peaceful and prosperous world?

Children raised with peace will practice peace. Peace does not, in my
version, include hitting or being hit.

So I avoid it every chance I get.

Especially with children.

And I extend it to my words. They too much be kindly, supportive, and
gentle or I might cross that very line I caution spanking compulsives
about...the one they cannot define, and neither can I, between
"discipline" and "abuse."

I have stopped reading anything by either of them and I refuse to reply to
anything they say.


Yes, of course.

There are a lot of people on my side of this issue that don't bother
coming here anymore either. They recognize the paucity of logic, fact,
and honesty from you folks.

It seems pointless for them to come here, just as it is pointless for
the spankers to come here, because the debate is over.

Are you unaware of that?

Look at the pro-spankers and what they post. Just attacks.

Just this silly nonense, which is an attack barely disguised, and on
rare occasion already more than adequately refuted and rebutted
supports for spanking.

Still posting the sad poorly disguised propaganda of Larzerele, that
because it's presented in faux academic language is believed by the
unwary and uninformed, they have given up on the obvious thugs like
Dodson.

I am sure they will have something to say about this
post but I will not read or respond to it.


How ethical. In fact, do you know that you border on slander?

Not because I am admitting that
they must be right or because I can't think of anything to say, I simply
refuse to discuss anything with either of them because they refuse to
listen. I encourage others to follow suit.


To whom are you addressing yourself? Outside of two loonies beating
upon the hollow heads of each other and themselves, there's no one
attempting to post cogent argument here. Or is my newsreader filter
working overtime against twits?

Jeremy J


Jeremy J, whatever makes you feel better. At least it will lower the
chances by a hair or two, you getting in a funk and taking it out on
your kids.

Give them my hearty, Q{} } ho ho ho ho

And tell them to run run run as fast as they can from the nutcases that
were made by folks like you that did it to you, that did it to them,
who did it to them.

Tell them to break the cycle. We're pullin' for 'em.

You could break the cycle before it's too late, Jeremy J. Want to give
it a try?

Take a couple of classes, or even one training on non punitive
parenting. It will amaze the hell out of you when you find out how
mistaken most adults are about their own children and why they do what
they do that prompts the parent to spank them.

Yer damaged, Jeremy J, and of course you cannot admit your parents did
that to you, but you can heal, and keep your kids from becoming
abusers. I've never met a child abuser that was not spanked as a child,
and it recognized by many of them as the cause of their adult choices.
Some even brag about it. Weird, eh. Just ... like ... you.

Kane

  #3  
Old December 23rd 05, 11:10 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
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Default What has hapenned to this group?


That is the nature of the anti-spankig zealotS. They will lie and, when
that doesn't work, they will resort to insults. They said their mothers
approve of it. ;-)

Doan


On Fri, 23 Dec 2005, Jeremy James wrote:

Fellow parents:

What has happenned to this newsgroup? It used to consist primarily of
parenets like myself, parents that know that when spanking is used as a
loving discliplinary tool, it is very effective. Parents that wanted to be
able to discuss this with other parents that felt the same way. Recently
however it seems to consist more of people that simply want to argue with
each other. I.E. people like Kane and LaVonne. These two people have
somehow managed to convince themselves that they are enlightened in some
way, or that they are intellectually superior to the other members here, or
some other thing. They are neither of course. When I first joined this
group I tried to debate with them, however they do not debate, they dictate.
Debating means that you are willing to listen to ther other person's
opinion, however they are totally obtuse. They are so convinced that their
own opinion is right that your opinion must be wrong. If you disagree with
them you must be a horrible person and you are abusive toward your children.
When they run out of logical arguments, they resort to insults. In their
world if you spank your children it means that you are an ingorant redneck,
and probably a pedophile with latent homesexual tendencies as well. Kane
has even implied that I spank my children because I get sexually aroused
when I do so. I have an 8year old and a 5 year old daughter and a 2 year
old son. I use spanking for all three of them because it works. And this
drives them crazy because I refuse to convert over to their narrow point of
view. From their viewpoint, if I am spanking my children I must have some
alterior motive, they cannot accept the fact that there are times when
spanking is the best way to handle the situation. And that I spank my
children because I love them and because IT WORKS!

I have stopped reading anything by either of them and I refuse to reply to
anything they say. I am sure they will have something to say about this
post but I will not read or respond to it. Not because I am admitting that
they must be right or because I can't think of anything to say, I simply
refuse to discuss anything with either of them because they refuse to
listen. I encourage others to follow suit.

Jeremy J





  #4  
Old December 24th 05, 06:50 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
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Posts: n/a
Default What has hapenned to this group?

On 23 Dec 2005 wrote:

When they run out of logical arguments, they resort to insults.


Asshole!


Another example of a fine response from the "never-spanked" boy. His mom
also approve! ;-)

Doan


  #5  
Old December 24th 05, 07:16 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
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Default What has hapenned to this group?

Dance monkeyboy, dance.

  #6  
Old December 24th 05, 07:50 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What has hapenned to this group?


The "never-spanked" boy got caught lying again; just like his master, the
LYING LaVonne. ;-)

Doan

On 23 Dec 2005 wrote:

Dance monkeyboy, dance.



  #7  
Old December 24th 05, 08:10 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
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Default What has hapenned to this group?

Jeremy is such a hapless cowardly twit that he has to get an hysterical
screeching dancing lying monkeyboy to come to his rescue:

http://groups.google.com/groups?enc_...coring=d&hl=en

If you don't think he is an hysterical screeching dancing lying
monkeyboy take a look at his long record of just such postings.

Sort by relevance Sorted by date
What has hapenned to this group?
The "never-spanked" boy got caught lying again; just like his master,
the LYING LaVonne. ;-) Doan Dance monkeyboy, dance.
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 23, 10:50 pm by Doan - 6 messages - 3
authors

Opinion's Lies are a giggle and a hoot! was Is punishment ...
Ha! Ha! Ha! The little Kane0 found the study??? Let's see What Chris
forgets
to tell you is that this same study also looks at non ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 23, 9:48 pm by Doan - 15 messages - 5
authors

The question no-spanks fear.
While many no-spanks are childless, some have children. Although given
to bragging about never spanking their kid, they are much ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 23, 2:32 pm by Doan - 4 messages - 4
authors

Fear and Loathing in the newsgroup alt.parenting.spanking
Are you talking about your master, the LYING LaVonne? ;-) Doan What is
it that the spanking compulsives fear in this ng? Could it ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 23, 2:01 pm by Doan - 2 messages - 2
authors

Cisco 2505 configuration questions
Have you tried "erase startup-config" and reboot? Doan JW, Thank you
for
your lead. Could you tell me how to wipe out the whole ...
alt.certification.cisco - Dec 20, 3:03 pm by Doan - 11 messages - 8
authors

Need advice
Still carping your child hatred nitwittery, ****ant? Let's hope you
worked
your own children over well enough they will remain cowed ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 18, 9:04 pm by Doan - 10 messages - 6
authors

1602 not reading startup-config....
Check the config register. Doan Got a problem I haven't had, but
hopefully
it's an easy one. Client has a Cisco 1602 router. The ...
comp.dcom.sys.cisco - Dec 16, 9:54 am by Doan - 3 messages - 2 authors

Problems byond the paddle
The question is what are the alternative? When you can't control the
kids
anymore, it will lead to situation like this: http://cbs2 ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 15, 8:08 pm by Doan - 4 messages - 4
authors

Paddle by proxy
The bright ones know how children best learn, grow, and develop. They
are
able to choose guidance and discipline strategies that ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 1, 7:08 pm by Doan - 6 messages - 4
authors

But it's da law!
" But it's da law!" Not in the US, yet, everywhere. But it's
happening in the
schools, and Minnesota, and our neighbors, and our compatriots in other
lands. ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 1, 4:13 pm by Doan - 5 messages - 3
authors

And on and on and on for year after year, frustrated at every turn,
blatantly lying as to what others and even he has said, that is the
strategy of the monkeyboy, including lying about others by claiming
they are lying.

Go climb back up in your tree, monkeyboy. You'll be safer there to hurl
your silly insults and lies.

Dance, monkeyboy, dance.

  #8  
Old December 25th 05, 08:19 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What has hapenned to this group?


So where are those studies? Can't fetch them for your
master, LYING Lavonne? ;-)

Doan


On 24 Dec 2005 wrote:

Jeremy is such a hapless cowardly twit that he has to get an hysterical
screeching dancing lying monkeyboy to come to his rescue:

http://groups.google.com/groups?enc_...coring=d&hl=en

If you don't think he is an hysterical screeching dancing lying
monkeyboy take a look at his long record of just such postings.

Sort by relevance Sorted by date
What has hapenned to this group?
The "never-spanked" boy got caught lying again; just like his master,
the LYING LaVonne. ;-) Doan Dance monkeyboy, dance.
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 23, 10:50 pm by Doan - 6 messages - 3
authors

Opinion's Lies are a giggle and a hoot! was Is punishment ...
Ha! Ha! Ha! The little Kane0 found the study??? Let's see What Chris
forgets
to tell you is that this same study also looks at non ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 23, 9:48 pm by Doan - 15 messages - 5
authors

The question no-spanks fear.
While many no-spanks are childless, some have children. Although given
to bragging about never spanking their kid, they are much ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 23, 2:32 pm by Doan - 4 messages - 4
authors

Fear and Loathing in the newsgroup alt.parenting.spanking
Are you talking about your master, the LYING LaVonne? ;-) Doan What is
it that the spanking compulsives fear in this ng? Could it ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 23, 2:01 pm by Doan - 2 messages - 2
authors

Cisco 2505 configuration questions
Have you tried "erase startup-config" and reboot? Doan JW, Thank you
for
your lead. Could you tell me how to wipe out the whole ...
alt.certification.cisco - Dec 20, 3:03 pm by Doan - 11 messages - 8
authors

Need advice
Still carping your child hatred nitwittery, ****ant? Let's hope you
worked
your own children over well enough they will remain cowed ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 18, 9:04 pm by Doan - 10 messages - 6
authors

1602 not reading startup-config....
Check the config register. Doan Got a problem I haven't had, but
hopefully
it's an easy one. Client has a Cisco 1602 router. The ...
comp.dcom.sys.cisco - Dec 16, 9:54 am by Doan - 3 messages - 2 authors

Problems byond the paddle
The question is what are the alternative? When you can't control the
kids
anymore, it will lead to situation like this: http://cbs2 ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 15, 8:08 pm by Doan - 4 messages - 4
authors

Paddle by proxy
The bright ones know how children best learn, grow, and develop. They
are
able to choose guidance and discipline strategies that ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 1, 7:08 pm by Doan - 6 messages - 4
authors

But it's da law!
" But it's da law!" Not in the US, yet, everywhere. But it's
happening in the
schools, and Minnesota, and our neighbors, and our compatriots in other
lands. ...
alt.parenting.spanking - Dec 1, 4:13 pm by Doan - 5 messages - 3
authors

And on and on and on for year after year, frustrated at every turn,
blatantly lying as to what others and even he has said, that is the
strategy of the monkeyboy, including lying about others by claiming
they are lying.

Go climb back up in your tree, monkeyboy. You'll be safer there to hurl
your silly insults and lies.

Dance, monkeyboy, dance.



  #9  
Old December 26th 05, 10:45 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What has hapenned to this group?

Jeremy,

I joined this ng in 1995, shortly after it was created. The ng was
created for the discussion of corporal punishment and alternative
parenting practices.

The ng has definitely changed. There was a time when individuals posted
with the intent of honest debate.

As for Kane and I arguing, this is bunk. We disagree, but this is the
point of debate. As far as I can tell, both Kane and I abhor the
practice of hitting children in the name of discipline.

And if the only way you can discipline an 8 year old daughter and a 3
year old daughter is by hitting their tiny bodies, you need to learn
something about child development and parenting.

LaVonne

Jeremy James wrote:
Fellow parents:

What has happenned to this newsgroup? It used to consist primarily of
parenets like myself, parents that know that when spanking is used as a
loving discliplinary tool, it is very effective. Parents that wanted to be
able to discuss this with other parents that felt the same way. Recently
however it seems to consist more of people that simply want to argue with
each other. I.E. people like Kane and LaVonne. These two people have
somehow managed to convince themselves that they are enlightened in some
way, or that they are intellectually superior to the other members here, or
some other thing. They are neither of course. When I first joined this
group I tried to debate with them, however they do not debate, they dictate.
Debating means that you are willing to listen to ther other person's
opinion, however they are totally obtuse. They are so convinced that their
own opinion is right that your opinion must be wrong. If you disagree with
them you must be a horrible person and you are abusive toward your children.
When they run out of logical arguments, they resort to insults. In their
world if you spank your children it means that you are an ingorant redneck,
and probably a pedophile with latent homesexual tendencies as well. Kane
has even implied that I spank my children because I get sexually aroused
when I do so. I have an 8year old and a 5 year old daughter and a 2 year
old son. I use spanking for all three of them because it works. And this
drives them crazy because I refuse to convert over to their narrow point of
view. From their viewpoint, if I am spanking my children I must have some
alterior motive, they cannot accept the fact that there are times when
spanking is the best way to handle the situation. And that I spank my
children because I love them and because IT WORKS!

I have stopped reading anything by either of them and I refuse to reply to
anything they say. I am sure they will have something to say about this
post but I will not read or respond to it. Not because I am admitting that
they must be right or because I can't think of anything to say, I simply
refuse to discuss anything with either of them because they refuse to
listen. I encourage others to follow suit.

Jeremy J




  #10  
Old December 27th 05, 08:35 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What has hapenned to this group?

On Mon, 26 Dec 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:

Jeremy,

I joined this ng in 1995, shortly after it was created. The ng was
created for the discussion of corporal punishment and alternative
parenting practices.

The ng has definitely changed. There was a time when individuals posted
with the intent of honest debate.

And then Doan started pointing out the HOLES in the anti-spanking zealotS
argument. He started asking me if there are any study where the non-cp
alternatives are any better. I can't answer him, especially when he
pointed to the fact that even researcher like Gershoff can't find such
a study. So I, Lying LaVonne, has to resort to lying and my little pooch,
Kane9 -9 = Kane0, hurling insults and vulgarities at anybody who dare to
opposed us. You see, I want to the the emperor and tell other parents
what to do. However, Doan pointed out that not only that I have no
clothe on, but I don't even have a penis! ;-)

Doan

 




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