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What has hapenned to this group?



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 28th 05, 11:53 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
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Default What has hapenned to this group?

Doan

Thanks for replying. I was hoping to get at least one articulate response.
I noticed that both Kane and LaVonne posted replies even though I made a
point of stating in my original post that I no longer read anything by
either of them, so I hope they didn't invest their time with the expectation
of me reading or even caring what they had to say. I have been a father for
over 8 years now, I spank all three of my children and have spanked other
children as well and the plain simple truth that neither of them can seem to
handle is that spanking is an effective form of discpline. I was spanked as
a child also, I didn't turn to a life of crime, I don't use drugs, my self
esteem is fine, I know my father spanked me because he loved me...blah.
blah, blah and all that other babble that the anti-spanking nazis claim we
are doing to our children. I have said this before but I will state it
again. I have no issues with another parent choosing not to spank his or
her child, that is every parent's individual choice. What I do have an
issue with is people who don't even know me trying to judge me and tell me
how to raise my children. And despite the anti-spanking nazis claims that
spanking is dying out, it is alive and well, and in fact is even regaining
in popularity.

Jeremy

"Doan" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:

Jeremy,

I joined this ng in 1995, shortly after it was created. The ng was
created for the discussion of corporal punishment and alternative
parenting practices.

The ng has definitely changed. There was a time when individuals posted
with the intent of honest debate.

And then Doan started pointing out the HOLES in the anti-spanking zealotS
argument. He started asking me if there are any study where the non-cp
alternatives are any better. I can't answer him, especially when he
pointed to the fact that even researcher like Gershoff can't find such
a study. So I, Lying LaVonne, has to resort to lying and my little pooch,
Kane9 -9 = Kane0, hurling insults and vulgarities at anybody who dare to
opposed us. You see, I want to the the emperor and tell other parents
what to do. However, Doan pointed out that not only that I have no
clothe on, but I don't even have a penis! ;-)

Doan



  #12  
Old December 28th 05, 06:13 PM
beccafromlalaland beccafromlalaland is offline
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity by ParentingBanter: Dec 2005
Posts: 108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy James

I have been a father for
over 8 years now, I spank all three of my children and have spanked other
children as well and the plain simple truth that neither of them can seem to
handle is that spanking is an effective form of discpline.
Sure it's effective...but does it have the effect you want in the long run? Are your children well behaved because they WANT to be, because they know it's the right thing to do. Or are they well behaved because they Fear being spanked? And under what athority have you spanked other children? NO ONE Should EVER strike a child that is not thier offspring (blood or legal) under ANY circumstances.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy James
I was spanked as a child also, I didn't turn to a life of crime, I don't use drugs, my self esteem is fine, I know my father spanked me because he loved me...
I'm intrigued by this "I know my father spanked me because he loved me" if he loved you why did he hit you? Couldn't he have found a better more appropriate/effective way of discipline? Striking a child does not sound like an act of love to me...it sounds like an act of anger. As for the rest...perhaps you were fortunate enough to have other things in your life to validate you, make you feel important/valued in your family. Maybe you were really good in sports or an A+ student so you didn't have to look inward for your self worth. Perhaps you were in a stable loving houshold. So you had no need to commit crimes, or use drugs and your self esteem was fine.

What about kids who come from broken homes, who wonder if they will eat breakfast in the morning, who don't have anything good going for them, would you agree that being spanked would only add to their feelings of self loathing and possibly push them into crime/drugs/etc etc?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy James
anti-spanking nazis claim we are doing to our children.
First let me just say the flippant use of the word nazi is offensive and detrimental to the memory of what the REAL Nazis did.

And how do you know you aren't hurting your childs psyche? Can you see into the future to know what kind of person your child will grow up to be? Can you predict that they will have great self esteem, won't do drugs, won't commit a crime? Can you know that when they grow up they will believe that you spanked them out of love? Or is that just a lie you tell yourself so you can feel justified in striking a defensless child?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy James
And despite the anti-spanking nazis claims that
spanking is dying out, it is alive and well, and in fact is even regaining
in popularity.

Jeremy
Again with the nazi statement. Spanking is dying out whether you want to believe it or not. Are you aware that the American Academy of Pediatrics no longer condones corporal punishment? Are you aware that spanking is no longer a part of Parenting classes?
__________________
Becca

Momma to two boys

Big Guy 3/02
and

Wuvy-Buv 8/05
  #13  
Old December 28th 05, 07:22 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What has hapenned to this group?


Jeremy James wrote:
Doan

Thanks for replying. I was hoping to get at least one articulate response.


You read the screeching monkey and think it was articulate?

I noticed that both Kane and LaVonne posted replies even though I made a
point of stating in my original post that I no longer read anything by
either of them, so I hope they didn't invest their time with the expectation
of me reading or even caring what they had to say.


No. You just provide "food for thought," so we have some idea where the
"spanking compulsives" are coming from.

Not speaking for LaVonne, but I'd be hard pressed to come up with the
weirdness you folks reveal all on my own.

I have been a father for
over 8 years now, I spank all three of my children and have spanked other
children as well and the plain simple truth that neither of them can seem to
handle is that spanking is an effective form of discpline.


No, we "handle" it quite well. It's short term compliance with long
term effects you are not going to like. Some children survive it pretty
well (thank goodness for the sturdy and adaptable nature of human
beings) so that you never have to see what results you created. They
just live silently with it, some of them going on to be like you.

Others, however, don't fair so well. You see them in our prisons and
accessing mental health resources, or simply living lives less rich
than they could have been.

I was spanked as
a child also, I didn't turn to a life of crime, I don't use drugs, my self
esteem is fine, I know my father spanked me because he loved me...blah.
blah, blah and all that other babble that the anti-spanking nazis claim we
are doing to our children.


Interesting you'd phrase is just that way. I'll bet you use drugs. Just
not illegal ones.

I have said this before but I will state it
again. I have no issues with another parent choosing not to spank his or
her child, that is every parent's individual choice.


Sure you do or you wouldn't be here.

What I do have an
issue with is people who don't even know me trying to judge me and tell me
how to raise my children.


There is not the slightest difference, other than your cowardice,
between you and us. You are judging when you say you don't about other
parent's choices. That is a choice to judge not to judge.

And despite the anti-spanking nazis


yawn

claims that
spanking is dying out, it is alive and well, and in fact is even regaining
in popularity.


Please list for us all the countries of the world that have decided to
bring spanking back as legal and desireable. Then try doing the same of
the state's school systems.

Not also that the last place you'd expect to see a growing movement
against spanking would be from Christians.

You are aware that we just had a visit from someone that declares she's
a Christian EX-spanker, right? She had the courage to work toward a
better way of parenting and seems apparently to hanging in there and
can see explain the issues from a "spankers" perspective.

There are more and more folks like this.

Have you checked out Sue Lawrences page and her campaign to fight the
commercial interests that make a buck off spanking?

I've also watched the longest lived more active group of anti spanking
advocates grow and grow across the country. They appear at school board
meetings, country commissions meetings, wherever they think they will
have an impact...and it is working. Some recent legislation and rulings
are directly tracable to their efforts.

http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/

And see also the petition against spanking

http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/petition.html 457 names so far.

As for you claim of spanking making a comeback, please.

You are just avoiding the truth by not reviewing the available
material.

A few sad souls that are lost in the compulsions that spanking creates
and perpetuates are trying to get it back in schools, but, you'll
notice, they are not succeeding, while getting it stoped IS succeeding.


And the sentiments of people all over the country are that it should be
stopped.

I used to work, in fact for years, even professionally, to try and
raise the consciousness of people and urging them to make personal
moral choices to stop. I was successful to a considerable degree.

However, I knew that there would be those that could't hear. Those
whose capacity for empathy (the foundation of self determined
conscience) was destroyed, or made disfuntional by their childhood
experience of parental betrayal of them by spanking.

And sadly, the past year I had to move, in good conscience, to the camp
of those that advocate for legal sanctions against spanking.

You will be marked for what you are one day, Jeremy, a criminal that
assaults children. It's happened in other countries and is overdue
here. It's coming now, and it won't be long.

http://www.stophitting.com/disathome...2005v1Iss9.pdf

Jeremy


Doan's comments below are the usual pack of lies he's foisted here for
years.

He does, in fact, the very thing he accuses others of. But then that's
the usual for those poor souls that could not and cannot get over
having been spanked and betrayed by their own parents.

Others, did get over it and move on. Some have even worked toward
reducing the chance other children well be battered and assaulted with
legal protection of the perp....so far.

But that's all changing.

http://www.stophitting.com/disathome...2005v1Iss9.pdf

Kane



"Doan" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:

Jeremy,

I joined this ng in 1995, shortly after it was created. The ng was
created for the discussion of corporal punishment and alternative
parenting practices.

The ng has definitely changed. There was a time when individuals posted
with the intent of honest debate.

And then Doan started pointing out the HOLES in the anti-spanking zealotS
argument. He started asking me if there are any study where the non-cp
alternatives are any better. I can't answer him, especially when he
pointed to the fact that even researcher like Gershoff can't find such
a study. So I, Lying LaVonne, has to resort to lying and my little pooch,
Kane9 -9 = Kane0, hurling insults and vulgarities at anybody who dare to
opposed us. You see, I want to the the emperor and tell other parents
what to do. However, Doan pointed out that not only that I have no
clothe on, but I don't even have a penis! ;-)

Doan


  #14  
Old December 28th 05, 11:59 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Jeremy's Behavior May Be Traced to Spanking!!! was What has hapennedto this group?



Jeremy James wrote:

Doan

Thanks for replying. I was hoping to get at least one articulate response.
I noticed that both Kane and LaVonne posted replies even though I made a
point of stating in my original post that I no longer read anything by
either of them, so I hope they didn't invest their time with the expectation
of me reading or even caring what they had to say.


As other readers who have a better grasp on the dynamics of a ng might
realize, one does not simply respond to a poster for his/her benefit.
Posts and responses are read by anyone who chooses to either actively
participate in the ng or simply read posts and responses. Whether or
not Jeremy reads my posts is simply irrelevant!

I have been a father for
over 8 years now, I spank all three of my children and have spanked other
children as well and the plain simple truth that neither of them can seem to
handle is that spanking is an effective form of discpline.


How proud Jeremy must be. He not only hits his own children in the name
of discipline, but other people's children as well. I had to chuckle
when I read that neither Kane nor I can seem to handle that spanking is
an effective form of discipline. What we have both handled successfully
is parenting that doesn't resort to hitting and hurting a child. I'd
say we have both handled the issue quite well.

I was spanked as
a child also, I didn't turn to a life of crime, I don't use drugs, my self
esteem is fine, I know my father spanked me because he loved me...blah.
blah, blah and all that other babble that the anti-spanking nazis claim we
are doing to our children. I have said this before but I will state it
again. I have no issues with another parent choosing not to spank his or
her child, that is every parent's individual choice. What I do have an
issue with is people who don't even know me trying to judge me and tell me
how to raise my children. And despite the anti-spanking nazis claims that
spanking is dying out, it is alive and well, and in fact is even regaining
in popularity.


I certainly would question Jeremy's self-esteem. Most individuals with
a healthy sense of self have little need to resort to name calling and
disrespectful behavior. Children who were not parented with respect
tend to become adults who lack respectful behavior. Jeremy appears to
be a classic case of a hurt child who has become an adult that hurts
children and disrespects adults who disagree with him.

I'd like to thank Jeremy for making an excellent case for not spanking
children.

LaVonne

Jeremy

"Doan" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 26 Dec 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:


Jeremy,

I joined this ng in 1995, shortly after it was created. The ng was
created for the discussion of corporal punishment and alternative
parenting practices.

The ng has definitely changed. There was a time when individuals posted
with the intent of honest debate.


And then Doan started pointing out the HOLES in the anti-spanking zealotS
argument. He started asking me if there are any study where the non-cp
alternatives are any better. I can't answer him, especially when he
pointed to the fact that even researcher like Gershoff can't find such
a study. So I, Lying LaVonne, has to resort to lying and my little pooch,
Kane9 -9 = Kane0, hurling insults and vulgarities at anybody who dare to
opposed us. You see, I want to the the emperor and tell other parents
what to do. However, Doan pointed out that not only that I have no
clothe on, but I don't even have a penis! ;-)

Doan





  #15  
Old December 29th 05, 12:04 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Thanks you, Becca! was What has hapenned to this group?



beccafromlalaland wrote:

Jeremy James Wrote:


I have been a father for
over 8 years now, I spank all three of my children and have spanked
other
children as well and the plain simple truth that neither of them can
seem to
handle is that spanking is an effective form of discpline.



Sure it's effective...but does it have the effect you want in the long
run? Are your children well behaved because they WANT to be, because
they know it's the right thing to do. Or are they well behaved
because they Fear being spanked? And under what athority have you
spanked other children? NO ONE Should EVER strike a child that is not
thier offspring (blood or legal) under ANY circumstances.


It's always effective in the short turn. Children aren't stupid. When
they are being hit by someone two, three, or four times their size, they
will comply in the presence of the hitter. So the disciplinary hitter,
in his/her short term view of guidance and discipline, thinks the
hitting "worked." In the mind of this individual, spanking worked!

No one should have the authority to strike children under any
circumstances. Children deserve the right to live without fear of
physical assault, just as adults have the right to live without fear of
physical assault.

Thanks for your posts.

LaVonne


Jeremy James Wrote:

I was spanked as a child also, I didn't turn to a life of crime, I don't
use drugs, my self esteem is fine, I know my father spanked me because
he loved me...



I'm intrigued by this "I know my father spanked me because he loved me"
if he loved you why did he hit you? Couldn't he have found a better
more appropriate/effective way of discipline? Striking a child does
not sound like an act of love to me...it sounds like an act of anger.
As for the rest...perhaps you were fortunate enough to have other
things in your life to validate you, make you feel important/valued in
your family. Maybe you were really good in sports or an A+ student so
you didn't have to look inward for your self worth. Perhaps you were
in a stable loving houshold. So you had no need to commit crimes, or
use drugs and your self esteem was fine.

What about kids who come from broken homes, who wonder if they will eat
breakfast in the morning, who don't have anything good going for them,
would you agree that being spanked would only add to their feelings of
self loathing and possibly push them into crime/drugs/etc etc?


Jeremy James Wrote:

anti-spanking nazis claim we are doing to our children.



First let me just say the flippant use of the word nazi is offensive
and detrimental to the memory of what the REAL Nazis did.

And how do you know you aren't hurting your childs psyche? Can you see
into the future to know what kind of person your child will grow up to
be? Can you predict that they will have great self esteem, won't do
drugs, won't commit a crime? Can you know that when they grow up they
will believe that you spanked them out of love? Or is that just a lie
you tell yourself so you can feel justified in striking a defensless
child?


Jeremy James Wrote:

And despite the anti-spanking nazis claims that
spanking is dying out, it is alive and well, and in fact is even
regaining
in popularity.

Jeremy




Again with the nazi statement. Spanking is dying out whether you want
to believe it or not. Are you aware that the American Academy of
Pediatrics no longer condones corporal punishment? Are you aware that
spanking is no longer a part of Parenting classes?



  #16  
Old December 29th 05, 03:06 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Thanks you, Becca! was What has hapenned to this group?

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:

No one should have the authority to strike children under any
circumstances. Children deserve the right to live without fear of
physical assault, just as adults have the right to live without fear of
physical assault.


And yes, the police can strike you with a baton and it would not be
considered physical assault according to the anti-spanking zealotS.
Or the police can jolt children as young as SIX-YEAR OLDs and
anti-spanking zealotS would defend it as SAFE! Logic and the
anti-spanking zealotS... are they mutually exclusive? ;-)

Doan


  #17  
Old December 29th 05, 04:09 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wanna see a hysterical screeching monkeyboy dance?

Check out the tinyurl link and watch the lying screeching and dancing
now at your favorite computer monitor. R R R R R R


Doan wrote:

And yes, the police can strike you with a baton and it would not be
considered physical assault according to the anti-spanking zealotS.
Or the police can jolt children as young as SIX-YEAR OLDs and
anti-spanking zealotS would defend it as SAFE! Logic and the
anti-spanking zealotS... are they mutually exclusive? ;-)

Doan


http://tinyurl.com/7ea8s

  #19  
Old December 29th 05, 07:50 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wanna see a hysterical screeching monkeyboy dance?

http://umanitoba.ca/faculties/human_...n%20Sweden.pdf

  #20  
Old January 2nd 06, 10:50 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What has hapenned to this group?

Deep inside, older no-spanks are usually very wrath-filled people.
Often they were mistreated as children and never got over it. Anytime
they are confronted with a parent who does not agree with their
extremist point of view, painful memories emerge from their childhood.
The angry child within lashes out at the new proxy parent in their
life. Much like antisocial children, no-spanks take great delight in
antagonizing parents who do not cater to their whim. Whether in person
or in a newsgroup, trying to communicate to a no-spank is much like
trying to talk to a grizzly that feels cornered.

Jeremy James wrote:
Fellow parents:

What has happenned to this newsgroup? It used to consist primarily of
parenets like myself, parents that know that when spanking is used as a
loving discliplinary tool, it is very effective. Parents that wanted to be
able to discuss this with other parents that felt the same way. Recently
however it seems to consist more of people that simply want to argue with
each other. I.E. people like Kane and LaVonne. These two people have
somehow managed to convince themselves that they are enlightened in some
way, or that they are intellectually superior to the other members here, or
some other thing. They are neither of course. When I first joined this
group I tried to debate with them, however they do not debate, they dictate.
Debating means that you are willing to listen to ther other person's
opinion, however they are totally obtuse. They are so convinced that their
own opinion is right that your opinion must be wrong. If you disagree with
them you must be a horrible person and you are abusive toward your children.
When they run out of logical arguments, they resort to insults. In their
world if you spank your children it means that you are an ingorant redneck,
and probably a pedophile with latent homesexual tendencies as well. Kane
has even implied that I spank my children because I get sexually aroused
when I do so. I have an 8year old and a 5 year old daughter and a 2 year
old son. I use spanking for all three of them because it works. And this
drives them crazy because I refuse to convert over to their narrow point of
view. From their viewpoint, if I am spanking my children I must have some
alterior motive, they cannot accept the fact that there are times when
spanking is the best way to handle the situation. And that I spank my
children because I love them and because IT WORKS!

I have stopped reading anything by either of them and I refuse to reply to
anything they say. I am sure they will have something to say about this
post but I will not read or respond to it. Not because I am admitting that
they must be right or because I can't think of anything to say, I simply
refuse to discuss anything with either of them because they refuse to
listen. I encourage others to follow suit.

Jeremy J


 




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