Let's see if the anti-vacs oppose this...

In article ,
(Mark) wrote:

Orac wrote

I wouldn't be hanging out in this newsgroup if I
weren't genuinely interested in alternative therapy. I'm particularly
interested in finding out which ones may actually work.

[Snip]


No you're not! You're just a Lackey of Barrett / member of Evil
Organized Medicine / greedy doctor...on a Quixotic quest to dissuade
people from using lifesaving alternative health remedies because
you've been paid off by Big Pharma.

Me, I'm still waiting for my check.

Well, the alties keep telling me I'm well paid for spreading anti-alt
disinformation here. I could use the dough. I still have medical school
debt to pay off....;-)

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

In article ,
"Dave" wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message
m...
Orac wrote

I wouldn't be hanging out in this newsgroup if I
weren't genuinely interested in alternative therapy. I'm particularly
interested in finding out which ones may actually work.

If you were genuinely interested in evaluating alternative therapies, you
would have been interested enough in Bing Han Refined Ginseng Powder
to at least check to see why it is different. You don't have to eat it,
endorse
it or support it, but you have no right to disparage something you know
nothing about. That is ignorant and mean-spirited.

Bull****. In the course of my exchanges with you, I looked up more
actual scientific studies on the proposed benefits of Ginseng than YOU
ever have. (Not difficult given that you clearly haven't looked up a
single one.) You're just lazy and unwilling to evaluate evidence
objectively, particularly if it might interfere with your MLM sales of
Ginseng.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

wrote in message
...

Rich,

You want evidence and proof of an alternative theory I simply
mentioned to you. Discussing it is one thing, but demanding evidence
on every line of convesation requires major research and
justification.

I didn't state it as a reason to stop you from taking vaccines and I'm
not out to prove or disprove this theory. I don't have the time or
research effort to do that, but if someone has, I'm interested. It's
an alternative thought that relates to vaccine operation. If this
interests you, look it up. If you don't find much, I wouldn't be
surprised, because the first time that was mentioned to me was by a
great healer I was having lunch with in 1986. We began watching that
theory in relationship to his method. It appears to have merit.
That's it.

There are other reasons for believing vaccines are not the way to go
in creating health. It doesn't mean those reasons are sufficient for
the masses to stop using vaccines, especially in third world
countries, but the theories behind them may lead to a new way of
creating true health.

Discard them all just because they don't fit your current concepts and
you stifle medical advancements outside the box.

Somewhere along the line if you want more from alternatives than you
are getting, you will need to stop the intense demand for examined,
classical proof and have the courage to look into the claims yourself
with an objective eye.

Here is what my objective eye sees:

The vitral force conjecture has no objective evidence to back it up. And
plenty of evidence to suggest that vaccines save lives by preventing polio,
smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella, hepatitis, mengititis, etc. illness.

Please tell me what objective evidence I have missed about vaccine or the
vital force conjecture that should make me take this conjecture seriously.

Because someone can make a conjecture does not mean that the conjecture has
the same validity of scientifically proven concepts or that the conjecture
should be taken seriously. In philosophy, maybe. In science, no.

Jeff

I won't anticipate objections to that
statement. It would be great if you could look hard enough at that to
understand all that I am saying.

Aloha no ka oi,
Mike

"JG" wrote in message
. ..
"Jeff" wrote in message
...

"Rich" ,@. wrote in message
...

[...]

If the anti-vacs have an "alternative" to vaccination then this is
the
group to discuss it in. They must of course provide some kind of
evidence to support that their recommendation will be effective.

They don't have an alternative that they can support with evidence.

Quarantine. *Plenty* of evidence of its effectiveness. Anyone who
denies that surveillance and containment measures played a pivotal role
in eliminating smallpox should do some research. Ditto typhoid
("Typhoid Mary" ring a bell?). And, more recently (and further evincing
your dearth of memory cells), SARS. An interesting article can be found
at http://www.msnbc.com/news/911613.asp.

...As amp used to say, "Play again?"

You have a valid point. Buy, what would quarantine have done what against
polio, chicken pox, hepatitis and measles? Quarantine helps in certain
situations, but it does not compare to vaccination in preventing illness or
death from vaccine-preventable illnesses.

As Amp used ot say, "Play again?"

Jeff

"JG" wrote in message ...
"Jeff" wrote in message
...

"Rich" ,@. wrote in message
...

[...]

If the anti-vacs have an "alternative" to vaccination then this is
the
group to discuss it in. They must of course provide some kind of
evidence to support that their recommendation will be effective.

They don't have an alternative that they can support with evidence.

Quarantine. *Plenty* of evidence of its effectiveness.

As a containment approach to limit second order infection, not as an
approach to avoid primary infection. And then again, infectivity and
diagnosis are not necessarily properly ordered making quarantine less
than effective without presumption based on exposure - and by that
time, it's already in the next level. If you quarantined the whole
population.....

Anyone who
denies that surveillance and containment measures played a pivotal role
in eliminating smallpox should do some research.

But then again, smallpox immunization doesn't require that some get
the disease first. Looking at the current proposals, it appears that
quarantine with ring vaccination has the best likelihood of
containmnet with the minimal number of downsides - under the
assumption of terrorism.

Ditto typhoid
("Typhoid Mary" ring a bell?). And, more recently (and further evincing
your dearth of memory cells), SARS. An interesting article can be found
at http://www.msnbc.com/news/911613.asp.

No vaccine for SARS - if there had been one the whole mess could have
been dealt with much differently.

Typhoid mary preceeded typhoid vaccine by about 90 years.

...As amp used to say, "Play again?"

OK - I played, - can you?

js

One reason why vaccines _could_ be dangerous - somatids.
Anth

wrote in message
...

Rich,

You want evidence and proof of an alternative theory I simply
mentioned to you. Discussing it is one thing, but demanding evidence
on every line of convesation requires major research and
justification.

I didn't state it as a reason to stop you from taking vaccines and I'm
not out to prove or disprove this theory. I don't have the time or
research effort to do that, but if someone has, I'm interested. It's
an alternative thought that relates to vaccine operation. If this
interests you, look it up. If you don't find much, I wouldn't be
surprised, because the first time that was mentioned to me was by a
great healer I was having lunch with in 1986. We began watching that
theory in relationship to his method. It appears to have merit.
That's it.

There are other reasons for believing vaccines are not the way to go
in creating health. It doesn't mean those reasons are sufficient for
the masses to stop using vaccines, especially in third world
countries, but the theories behind them may lead to a new way of
creating true health.

Discard them all just because they don't fit your current concepts and
you stifle medical advancements outside the box.

Somewhere along the line if you want more from alternatives than you
are getting, you will need to stop the intense demand for examined,
classical proof and have the courage to look into the claims yourself
with an objective eye. I won't anticipate objections to that
statement. It would be great if you could look hard enough at that to
understand all that I am saying.

Aloha no ka oi,
Mike

(Alun Harford) wrote in message . com...
"Markositiu Probertositiu" wrote in message .net...
UN calls for ceasefire in Uganda to immunize children
Thu Oct 9, 2:44 PM ET Add Health - AFP to My Yahoo!



KAMPALA (AFP) - Two UN agencies urged the Ugandan government and Lord's
Resistance Army (LRA) rebels to observe an eight-day ceasefire to allow
anti-measles immunizations of more than 12 million children in the country.

"UN Children's Fund (UNICEF (news - web sites)) and World Health
Organisation (WHO) calls on belligerents in Uganda to cease all hostilities
between October 14 to 21 so that children can be immunized against measles,"
they said in a joint statement released here.


The statement said the two agencies were making the appeal for days of calm
to allow more than 50,000 vaccinators and community mobilisers to immunize
every one of the estimated 12.7 million children in Uganda.


Army spokesman Major Shaban Bantariza, said the UN agencies were preaching
to the converted, because the government army already supports the campaign.

WHAT???
Now THAT'S just silly.
The Ugandan army consistantly breaks ceasefires. Whether breaking the
creasefires is the right thing to do is harder to call.

I hate being right.

The Ugandan govt. just declared that it won't observe the ceasefire.

Alun Harford