Some opinions on hospital policy, please...

Hello, I've been primarily lurking here for the past few years and posted
a couple of times. I'm expecting my first any day now (already 3cm
dilated, but not due until the 7th). I went and did all the classes at my
hospital including breastfeeding, baby care, and prepared childbirth. This
hospital (and the local area) is pretty pro-BF - about 90% of mothers
start BFing in the hospital.

The breastfeeding class was taught by a lactation consultant. The hospital
has a whole team of LCs to help new mothers. She explained the problems
with supplementing and how that could cause supply problems, etc - her
whole lecture pretty much was in sync with what I have learned from
reading this group.

Then, I went to the baby care class. That class was taught by one of the
mother/baby nurses (the ones who care for you after delivery). While she
had BFed her children and was pretty pro-BF, she offered conflicting
information. The one thing that bothered me most was that she said that if
you had a big baby (her definition was over 8 lbs), colostrum would not be
enough to satisify them and they would be wailing from hunger. She said
that in these situations they let them sip an ounce of two of formula from
a cup so that they feel full. Another Mom-to-be must of had a problem with
this as well because she asked if they would do this without permission
from the mother. The nurse made some kind of comment like 'you don't have
to do it - but you'll be the one dealing with the starving baby.'

So, I have a few problems with this. First of all, everything I've seen
says that colostrum is plenty of nourishment for your baby over the first
few days until your milk comes in. I can't imagine why an 8 lb baby would
be any different. Plus, if the baby is crying to be fed, shouldn't you
just put him to your breast? It seems like that's probably what he wants
and don't you need the stimulation to help your milk come in and to
determine the supply?

It appears that I have a good chance of having a large baby (DH and I were
both 9 lbs and this one seems on the large side), so I'm afraid that they
are going to try to push the formula thing on me. They seem to think that
since they aren't using a bottle and nipple, it's not a problem. I'm
worried that I'm just going to be so overwhelmed that I'll just follow
anything they say and that might not be the best thing for baby. I just
want to know if I'm right in thinking that this is unnecessary so that I
feel confident when I tell the nurse that I don't want my baby to have any
formula. If it doesn't seem like a big deal to anyone else then I won't
worry about it.

Thanks,
Manda

On 17 Jul 2003 08:41:10 -0600, wrote:


Then, I went to the baby care class. That class was taught by one of the
mother/baby nurses (the ones who care for you after delivery). While she
had BFed her children and was pretty pro-BF, she offered conflicting
information. The one thing that bothered me most was that she said that if
you had a big baby (her definition was over 8 lbs), colostrum would not be
enough to satisify them and they would be wailing from hunger. She said
that in these situations they let them sip an ounce of two of formula from
a cup so that they feel full. Another Mom-to-be must of had a problem with
this as well because she asked if they would do this without permission
from the mother. The nurse made some kind of comment like 'you don't have
to do it - but you'll be the one dealing with the starving baby.'

WTF?!

I've had three babies - one over nine pounds, one eight pounds, one
seven and a half. My experiences were as follows:

First of all, by the time Victoria was born, I knew enough not to let
her leave the room. Both previous times, although I specified
breastfeeding, teh nurses had given supplements. That's the best way
to insure that your baby gets no supplements.

Second of all, I made a plan with Victoria that I would take the first
few days and lie in bed and breastfeed and drink water. She fed
constantly those first two days. My milk was in by the time I left the
hospital, and my lochia had all but disappeared! I think some people
equate "eating constantly" with "starving" and I just don't think it's
so! The baby eats, the baby quickly gets hungry, the baby eats again.
That's hardly starving, that's what I still do today!

Plan for a lactation consultant to come in the first day for a while,
so that you can get your latch correct right away. I think it's
discouraging with a big baby if you don't, because the baby eats so
often that latch problems are magnified.


It appears that I have a good chance of having a large baby (DH and I were
both 9 lbs and this one seems on the large side), so I'm afraid that they
are going to try to push the formula thing on me. They seem to think that
since they aren't using a bottle and nipple, it's not a problem. I'm
worried that I'm just going to be so overwhelmed that I'll just follow
anything they say and that might not be the best thing for baby. I just
want to know if I'm right in thinking that this is unnecessary so that I
feel confident when I tell the nurse that I don't want my baby to have any
formula. If it doesn't seem like a big deal to anyone else then I won't
worry about it.

You know, I've delivered a nine pound baby and it's not easy.
Delivering any baby isn't really what I'd call easy. And if you have
complications (I had a c-section with Brooke) you might very well feel
overwhelmed and frightened and unsure of everything you thought you
knew. I may be alone in this, but I think that one of the keys to
getting off on the right foot with breastfeeding is successful pain
management during labor. I never got on top of the pain with Brooke,
my labor was a horrifying experience which set me up for breastfeeding
problems, post-partum depression and a complete lack of bonding with
her for several weeks. I'm not saying "Get the epidural now, what are
you waiting for?" But the fewer preconceived notions you have about
how you are and aren't going to manage pain, the better off you're
likely to be. My experience only.

Anne

wrote:
The one thing that bothered me most was that she said that if
you had a big baby (her definition was over 8 lbs), colostrum would not be
enough to satisify them and they would be wailing from hunger. She said
that in these situations they let them sip an ounce of two of formula from
a cup so that they feel full.

Now there's is nice collection of total bull-s**t! I had an 8lb boy, and he
was exclusively BF from birth to 8m and never ever hungry. The stomach contents
of a newborn are so small that the first day they are satisfied with something
like 7ml of colostrum, the next day it is 15ml, then 30ml. Just take a cup and
measure how little this is. And the best part: your body produces exactly those
amounts of colostrum, increasing each day with the need of your baby. Of course,
if you stuff him full with formula right away, the stomach will expand faster
and they will be hungry for more. Which is exactly why you don't want to
supplement *at all* with newborns. Don't pin me down on the exact numbers,
but it's somewhere near...

DS didn't drink 2oz of EBM until he was 4 weeks old!

So, I have a few problems with this. First of all, everything I've seen
says that colostrum is plenty of nourishment for your baby over the first
few days until your milk comes in. I can't imagine why an 8 lb baby would
be any different. Plus, if the baby is crying to be fed, shouldn't you
just put him to your breast? It seems like that's probably what he wants
and don't you need the stimulation to help your milk come in and to
determine the supply?

You are absolutely right! IME following your gut feeling always works best.

I just
want to know if I'm right in thinking that this is unnecessary so that I
feel confident when I tell the nurse that I don't want my baby to have any
formula. If it doesn't seem like a big deal to anyone else then I won't
worry about it.

You should worry about it and make it absolutely clear that you do not want
*anything* supplemented to the baby unless there is a distinct medical reason.
I've been to a hospital with the policy 'if she doesn't see, she doesn't know
and it doesn't do any harm'. Well, they *know* now I could tell

--
-- Ilse
mom to Olaf (07/15/2002)
TTC #2
"What's the use of brains if you are a girl?"
Aletta Jacobs, first Dutch woman to receive a PhD

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:40:56 +0100, (Elana) wrote:
but then again I might just have mucked up the snipping as usual!

Someone a while ago mentioned making a sign to put on the bassinet that
the baby is in that says No Formula, so there's no way they can say they
didn't see it.

My Mum did that when my brother was born. Even back in 1977 it was
honoured! I think hers actually said "no bottles" in order to be even
more specific (including sugar water as well).

She'd had them insist on supplementing when I was born because I had
to have eaten x ounces before release and they were weighing me before
and after feeds and d'uh Mum's milk hadn't come in (and it was a week
before Xmas and they wanted us out!). My paediatrician had suggested
the signs to prevent a repeat of my severe milk intolerance with my
brother.

Megan
--
Seoras David Montgomery, 7 May 2003, 17 hours: sunrise to sunset (homebirth)
Seoras' story: http://seoras.farr-montgomery.com

To e-mail use: megan at farr-montgomery dot com

wrote:

So, I have a few problems with this. First of all, everything I've seen
says that colostrum is plenty of nourishment for your baby over the first
few days until your milk comes in. I can't imagine why an 8 lb baby would
be any different. Plus, if the baby is crying to be fed, shouldn't you
just put him to your breast? It seems like that's probably what he wants
and don't you need the stimulation to help your milk come in and to
determine the supply?

Alot of times, with a big baby, they are worried about the glucose level
of baby. I certainly wouldn't supplement based on being large. Check
with your ped what level of glucose they want to supplement at - might
be different from the hospital. Also, try to nurse before supplementing,
colostrum is packed full of what baby needs and is often sufficient to
bringing up the glucose level. If you must supplement because of
low glucose, do *not* use a bottle (learned this the hard way).

Good Luck!

Mary

Oh, and 8 pounds isn't big! Mom to 10lb 5 Oz Emma.

Astromum wrote:

You should worry about it and make it absolutely clear that you do not want
*anything* supplemented to the baby unless there is a distinct medical reason.
I've been to a hospital with the policy 'if she doesn't see, she doesn't know
and it doesn't do any harm'. Well, they *know* now I could tell

Yeah, well, that's what my hospital said, and I'm pretty sure Patrick
had some formula when I was knocked out in recovery. So make sure you
put that sign in the bassinet!! :-)

E

Mary W. wrote:
Check with your ped what level of glucose they want to supplement at
- might be different from the hospital. Also, try to nurse before
supplementing, colostrum is packed full of what baby needs and is
often sufficient to bringing up the glucose level.

Definitely - DS was born with low blood sugar, undoubtedly because I'd had
to fast all day. They wanted to supplement. I nursed him and it brought it
right up. IF they're concerned about low blood sugar, I'd insist that they
let you nurse him first THEN check his blood sugar.

And furthering the big baby database - DS was 9lbs 10oz and did fine from
birth to past a year on breastmilk alone.

--
iphigenia
www.tristyn.net

three of my four were 8# babies (the other one was early)

they were all perfectly happy with colostrum

they roomed in (mostly... I did send them to the nursery
for short stints), and nursed a lot.

As my mama is fond of saying "Air doesn't refuse to carry
words." Just cuz the nurse says it, doesn't make it so.

Esther

You are so lucky to find this out NOW when you can still gather information and
advice rather than find out as they are putting the formula into him or after
it has been said and done!

Others have offered great advice, such as the sign in the bassinette, rooming
in, and nursing first if they are concerned about blood sugar. The only thing
I have to add is that you might want to bring it to the attention of the charge
nurse that this bad advice is being distributed in the childbirth/childcare
class. Not sure if you're up for that, or if you'd even be taken seriously,
but it may be worth a shot.

Have a great birth and a wonderful nursing relationship!

koa
Still nursing James, 02/06/01
EP'ing for Joey 04/02/03 (BCP)

o, I have a few problems with this. First of all, everything I've seen
says that colostrum is plenty of nourishment for your baby over the first
few days until your milk comes in. I can't imagine why an 8 lb baby would
be any different. Plus, if the baby is crying to be fed, shouldn't you
just put him to your breast? It seems like that's probably what he wants
and don't you need the stimulation to help your milk come in and to
determine the supply?

Yes. Room in with the baby and just nurse it when it asks, and you should be
fine. :-)

My mom had an 8 pound 12 ounce, an 8 pound 5 ounce, and a 10 pound 9 ounce baby
after I was old enough to remember, and I don't remember any of them wailing
from hunger while the milk came in. It sounds like the nurse in question was
thinking of big babies *with scheduled feeds* to me.

--
Caryn
mama to Oscar, 10/20/02