Intro and solids question

Hi all,

I've posted in various places before so I guess a few of you know me
already but for those that don't, hello :-) We're in Cambridge, UK
and my DS Matthew is a bit over 7 months old now (how time flies).
He's been exclusively bf-ed until he started on solids just before
six months of age.

My question relates to solid food rather than BF, but I still think
you guys are probably among the better-qualified people to answer
it :-)

Some background first... the first solid food he had was baby rice w/
EBM and since then we've added loads of fruits and veggies (apricot,
peach, pear, plum, mango, apple, banana, melon, nectarine, peas,
carrots, swede, potato, sweet potato, butternut squash...) and I
recently added oatmeal, barley and lentils to the menu as well. He's
had some constipation problems since we started the solids and is
currently taking lactulose (sugar syrup, stool softener) to deal with
that, which is helping. He's been on that for four or five days so
far. We have loads of allergies in the faimly so I'm keen not to
expose him to anything too early.

So, my questions a
1. In which order would you introduce meat, dairy, and wheat? (or
is there something else that should come next before any of those?)
2. Would you introduce the first choice now, or wait until the
constipation issues are totally resolved, i.e. he is off the
lactulose, before introducing anything else?

My gut feeling is to start with meat soon but to wait until he can
manage without the lactulose before introducing dairy or wheat. Not
sure what that's based on, though, just an instinct.

Thanks for any advice or suggestions!
Vicky

--
"Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock
phasers on the Heffalump. Piglet, meet me in transporter room
three. Christopher Robin, you have the bridge."

So, my questions a
1. In which order would you introduce meat, dairy, and wheat? (or
is there something else that should come next before any of those?)

Wheat first, mostly just because it's so hard to avoid. Makes sense to delay
it more with the allergy concern, though, if you can. Then meat, starting
somewhere around 8 or 9 months. No milk until at least 12 months, but cheese
and yogurt can be tried around the same time as meats.

I think meat is generally okay from an allergy standpoint as soon as you start
solids (although there is a recommended sequence -- I think it's veal and lamb
first, then poultry and beef, then pork last), and the iron content is good for
babies, but it's such a hassle to prepare for an infant who's eating only
purees/mashed foods that it's not worth doing. So most people wait until the
baby is managing finger foods, at which point things like meatloaf and bits of
stewed meats are okay.

2. Would you introduce the first choice now, or wait until the
constipation issues are totally resolved, i.e. he is off the
lactulose, before introducing anything else?


I've never heard of wheat causing constipation, but in general my question
would be, what's your hurry? :-) It's not as if he *needs* a particularly
balanced diet of solid foods yet. If restricting what he eats helps solve the
constipation problem, it's worth doing. I'd probably back off from some of the
things you've already given him, in fact, and stick to prunes and other foods
with a laxative effect for a while.

Holly
Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs
EDD #2 6/8/04

In article ,
HollyLewis wrote:
[I wrote:]
So, my questions a
1. In which order would you introduce meat, dairy, and wheat?
(or is there something else that should come next before any of
those?)

Wheat first, mostly just because it's so hard to avoid. Makes
sense to delay it more with the allergy concern, though, if you
can.

I'm still on maternity leave and therefore sitting around the house
on my backside all day [as if :-)] so I'm preparing all his food
myself. So wheat really isn't hard to avoid in that sense, because I
have complete control over what he gets.

Then meat, starting somewhere around 8 or 9 months. No
milk until at least 12 months, but cheese and yogurt can be
tried around the same time as meats.

I've read elsewhere that it's OK (in general, don't know about
allergy-ridden families like mine) to use whole cows milk to mix
cereal etc from 6 months, but not as a main milk drink until 12
months. I don't quite understand why milk is different from cheese or
yoghurt, though, surely they contain all of the same proteins etc.?!

I think meat is generally okay from an allergy standpoint as
soon as you start solids (although there is a recommended
sequence -- I think it's veal and lamb first, then poultry and
beef, then pork last), and the iron content is good for babies,
but it's such a hassle to prepare for an infant who's eating
only purees/mashed foods that it's not worth doing. So most
people wait until the baby is managing finger foods, at which
point things like meatloaf and bits of stewed meats are okay.

Again, no big hassle for me to poach some chicken or white fish in
EBM and then puree it, and freeze in ice cube trays along with
everything else, if he's still on mush by the time I want to
introduce meat.

2. Would you introduce the first choice now, or wait until the
constipation issues are totally resolved, i.e. he is off the
lactulose, before introducing anything else?


I've never heard of wheat causing constipation, but in general
my question would be, what's your hurry? :-) It's not as if he
*needs* a particularly balanced diet of solid foods yet. If
restricting what he eats helps solve the constipation problem,
it's worth doing. I'd probably back off from some of the things
you've already given him, in fact, and stick to prunes and other
foods with a laxative effect for a while.

No real hurry other than my own excitement/impatience, but I'm
definitely prepared to let that take a back seat for allergy or
intolerance issues. :-)

The problem with backing off some of the foods he is getting is that
I am VERY unclear as to what is causing the constipation. For the
first two weeks he was on solids he had nothing but rice, banana and
pear and he wasn't constipated at all even though rice and banana are
definitely "binding" foods. Then he started to get constipated but a
food diary for a couple of weeks didn't reveal anything obvious.
Therefore I'm trying to give him as much variety of fruit and veg as
possible in the hope that a) he won't get too much of whatever it is
that constipates him and b) he will also get some other anti-
constipation stuff with it. Before you say it I have tried going back
to just rice, banana and pear but still no dice (although I only
tried it for a day admittedly). Prunes don't seem to have much effect
on him, or at least prune juice doesn't. It doesn't have any effect
on me either, though, so I guess that's just the way of it.

Thanks for the thoughts/advice.

Vicky
--
"Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock
phasers on the Heffalump. Piglet, meet me in transporter room
three. Christopher Robin, you have the bridge."

Hi -

My web site (listed at bottom) has a link to at least one site that
explains how and when to introduce solids to the allergically-at-risk
child. Among it's suggestions are holding off on ALL dairy until ... I
think at least 12 months, and the same for wheat.

If your son is constipated, try more fiber (ie apricots) and less rice.

Don't introduce more solids until you get the constipation under
control. Consider removing existing solids from his diet to get the
constipation under control, and then SLOWLY reintroducing them.

Remember to wait at LEAST three days after introducing one solid before
introducing the next; that will help you figure out the culprit if one
of the solids turns out to cause a problem.

I hope this helps,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

In article , Vicky Larmour wrote:
In article ,
HollyLewis wrote:
Then meat, starting somewhere around 8 or 9 months. No
milk until at least 12 months, but cheese and yogurt can be
tried around the same time as meats.

I've read elsewhere that it's OK (in general, don't know about
allergy-ridden families like mine) to use whole cows milk to mix
cereal etc from 6 months, but not as a main milk drink until 12
months. I don't quite understand why milk is different from cheese or
yoghurt, though, surely they contain all of the same proteins etc.?!

The bacteria in yogurt sort of pre-digest the milk proteins, and the
coagulation process in cheese changes the shape of casein micelles
(sort of interlocked lumps of molecules). So cheese and yogurt and
fresh milk all have slightly different proteins and slightly different
allergenicities. However, most people who are milk allergic appear
to be allergic to all forms, because they react to portions of the
milk protein that aren't modified by cheese or yogurt -making.

I suspect that the prohibition against using cow's milk as a
beverage until 12 months is to prevent excessive consumption
more than to prevent allergies.

Elaine

Vicky Larmour wrote:


Wheat may be harder to control when you start into things that M can
"teeth" or chew on...but he may not have the dexerity for that yet,
anyway. I know the feeling about being at home and thus making your own
food; even when I *was* WOH and DH was home with both, we still managed
to feed them homemade solids. We tried the jarred stuff but it was
harder to feed to them, more expensive, and not as easy for us and just
doing up a whole lot, sticking it in cube trays in the freezer and
defrosting whatever we needed -- and then supplementing with table foods
as the girls got used to things.
Their first table food was probably the heel/crust of a piece of bread,
and then softer bits of bread, which wouldn't work for you if you're
avboiding wheat I suppose!


I've read elsewhere that it's OK (in general, don't know about
allergy-ridden families like mine) to use whole cows milk to mix
cereal etc from 6 months, but not as a main milk drink until 12
months. I don't quite understand why milk is different from cheese or
yoghurt, though, surely they contain all of the same proteins etc.?!

I dont' know either, but there is some difference. IE My girls love love
love cheddar cheese, and haven't ever had a problem with it or yogurt,
but they both break out with little skin blotches if they anything even
made with cow's milk. (WE're still working through the stash of EBM so
we haven't tried straight cow's milk but given the reaction, we're not
interested at this point...).


I think meat is generally okay from an allergy standpoint as
soon as you start solids (although there is a recommended
sequence -- I think it's veal and lamb first, then poultry and

Again, no big hassle for me to poach some chicken or white fish in
EBM and then puree it, and freeze in ice cube trays along with
everything else, if he's still on mush by the time I want to
introduce meat.

Just FYI, our girls didn't like chicken puree at all, but love/d plain
chicken breast. They'll eat chicken thighs or pork if that's all we
have, but they really prefer bits of chicken breast. So, don't give up
hope on meat if M doesn't like the pureed versions.






No real hurry other than my own excitement/impatience, but I'm
definitely prepared to let that take a back seat for allergy or
intolerance issues. :-)

The problem with backing off some of the foods he is getting is that
I am VERY unclear as to what is causing the constipation. For the
first two weeks he was on solids he had nothing but rice, banana and
pear and he wasn't constipated at all even though rice and banana are
definitely "binding" foods. Then he started to get constipated but a
food diary for a couple of weeks didn't reveal anything obvious.
Therefore I'm trying to give him as much variety of fruit and veg as
possible in the hope that a) he won't get too much of whatever it is
that constipates him and b) he will also get some other anti-
constipation stuff with it. Before you say it I have tried going back
to just rice, banana and pear but still no dice (although I only
tried it for a day admittedly).

I'd say from my limited experience, that going back to a rice, banana,
pear diet for just a day may not be enough to test whether it's the
constipation-clear-all. Technically, you could just go back to
breastmilk exclusively for a few days (if you don't mind the extra night
wakings if you think he's eating enough solids for that to be a
consequence), and let the breastmilk do its thing.

FWIW, it doesn't necessarily get better -- my two (now over 12 mos/ over
11 months corrected) are on a nearly all breasmilk diet ATM because
they're both teething and one is riding a low grade fever. They just
don't want to eat solids, just a teeny bit of spinach with milk, cereal
with milk and banana and the rest is Mama. I forsee another long night,
sigh.

Anyway, good luck!

Hi -

Children with an allergic background (any evidence of allergies,
allergies in the family) should strictly avoid non-human milk protein
for at least 10 months, and 12 months is preferable.

For non-allergic children you can introduce cheese and yogurt earlier if
you wish (although it's not necessary) since the odds against triggering
allergies are in your favor. The reason to avoid milk as a fluid is
that you don't want it to replace the far more nutritious breastmilk or
formula that your baby still depends upon.

For allergically-at-risk children, though, you do need to wait on the
milk protein. Milk protein IS very allergenic for infants, and there's
some thought that it might trigger other, long-term, immune disorders if
taken too early.

The other most common allergens should also be delayed a year or longer:
eggs, wheat, shellfish, fish, seeded berries, soy ... peanuts and tree
nuts should be delayed even longer, since the risk of allergy is rising
and the nature of the allergy is quite serious.

(If your child has had formula, check the ingredients. Anything in the
formula is fair game in solids. Ie, if your child is drinking a
milk-based formula, then there's no need to delay milk products.)

If your child is constipated, consider:

-- increasing the high-fiber foods, such as pureed apricots or prunes
-- removing all or most solids from your child's diet for a week or
until the bowel movements get back to normal, then re-introduce the
solids one by one, at 3-5 day intervals, until the bowels become a
problem again.
-- pumping fluids, espeically breastmilk, which is a great laxative.

I hope this helps. My web site is on milk allergy, but has excellent
links to other allergy sites and to sites about the introduction of
solids to the allergic child.

--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

"Vicky Larmour" wrote in message
...
The problem with backing off some of the foods he
is getting is that I am VERY unclear as to what is
causing the constipation. For the first two weeks
he was on solids he had nothing but rice, banana
and pear and he wasn't constipated at all even though
rice and banana are definitely "binding" foods. Then
he started to get constipated but a food diary for a
couple of weeks didn't reveal anything obvious.

Is he drinking any water? Maybe it is not what kind of solids, but just
the quantity of solids that is causing the constipation. When he first
started out on the rice, banana and pear he probably just wasn't eating
a whole lot, so the liquid he got from bf was enough to balance it out.
Now that he's eating more (I'm guessing) you might want to start giving
him a sippy cup of water with meals. I did that with DD at 7 months,
though it took her a few weeks to figure it out and get any amount of
water out of it. When I first started giving it to her I left the valve
out until she got the idea there was something in there to drink.
--
Cheryl S.
Mom to Julie, 2 yr., 8 mo.
And Jaden, 3 months

Cleaning the house while your children are small is like
shoveling the sidewalk while it's still snowing.

In article ,
Beth Kevles wrote:
My web site (listed at bottom) has a link to at least one site
that explains how and when to introduce solids to the
allergically-at-risk child. Among it's suggestions are holding
off on ALL dairy until ... I think at least 12 months, and the
same for wheat.

Thanks for that! I couldn't get the second of the links on your page
to work but the first one had a very interesting table. It's hard to
find that type of information elsewhere so I really appreciate it!

If your son is constipated, try more fiber (ie apricots) and
less rice.

That's the weird thing, though, he gets mainly fruit and veg (and
fibrous ones at that) and barely any rice at all these days. A
typical day would be something like this (portion = 1 ice cube size):
breakfast: 2 oz of EBM mixed with oatmeal, 1 portion nectarine
lunch: 2 portions sweet potato, 1 portion lentil, 1 portion plum
dinner: 1 portion green peas, 1 portion peach, 1 portion apricot

With each meal, and at intervals in between, he gets a sippy cup of
water (I would guess he takes maybe about 0.5 oz with each meal and
another 1 oz in total throughout the day). Plus, of course, BF as
often as he wants, which is often as he's always been a "little and
often" feeder.

Don't introduce more solids until you get the constipation under
control. Consider removing existing solids from his diet to get
the constipation under control, and then SLOWLY reintroducing
them.

This was where I was heading. Thanks for the confirmation.

Vicky
--
"Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock
phasers on the Heffalump. Piglet, meet me in transporter room
three. Christopher Robin, you have the bridge."

In article ,
Cheryl S. wrote:
Is he drinking any water? Maybe it is not what kind of solids,
but just the quantity of solids that is causing the
constipation. When he first started out on the rice, banana and
pear he probably just wasn't eating a whole lot, so the liquid
he got from bf was enough to balance it out. Now that he's
eating more (I'm guessing) you might want to start giving him a
sippy cup of water with meals.

Yep, he gets a sippy cup of water. I was giving him diluted prune
juice or pear juice (both laxatives) but he seems to prefer just
plain water so he drinks more of it plain. Since the juice didn't
seem to be having much effect I went back to plain water.

I did that with DD at 7 months,
though it took her a few weeks to figure it out and get any
amount of water out of it. When I first started giving it to
her I left the valve out until she got the idea there was
something in there to drink.

Yes, I had to do some experimenting to get a system he can drink out
of without it just flowing out down his front! :-)

Thanks for the suggestions!
Vicky
--
"Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock
phasers on the Heffalump. Piglet, meet me in transporter room
three. Christopher Robin, you have the bridge."