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#421
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Don't Spawn 'Em If You're Gonna Pawn 'Em
* US * wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:18:19 -0800, "garbageteachr" wrote: Good--now let's go one step further. Do you believe that both men and women are responsible to provide for their children FINANCIALLY? There's a concept called opportunity cost. Of course you're too stupid to know what it means, but it entails the fact that the person providing caregiving is providing for the child financially. Where does the mother who is doing the caretaking get the money to provide financially? Does the mother earn money at a job? Or do you believe that the mother should be paid by the father for handling the responsibilities she took on when she chose to create a child? |
#422
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Don't Spawn 'Em If You're Gonna Pawn 'Em
* US * wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:31:42 -0800, "garbageteachr" wrote: ...believe that all women who go out to work abandon their babies alone ... You must be really stupid to believe that, too. Actually, I don't believe that. YOU are the one that mentioned that a mother going out to work was abandoning her baby alone. |
#423
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Don't Spawn 'Em If You're Gonna Pawn 'Em
* US * wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:33:34 -0800, "garbageteachr" wrote: ... a part of child rearing ... Somebody has to take care of the kid. Your temporary lay doesn't want to do it. He doesn't want to pay enough for daycare, either. The "child" is coming up on 17 years old. She was almost 13 when we found out about her. I'm pretty sure child care is not an issue. Any other readons her mother shouldn't earn money to provide for the children she produced? |
#424
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Don't Spawn 'Em If You're Gonna Pawn 'Em
* US * wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:36:20 -0800, "garbageteachr" wrote: TM said: ...Are healthy adult women responsible to earn money to support the children that they bring into the world? US replied: Why do you believe that rearing the children isn't support? TM said: Do you believe that you can rear children without any money? Do you believe that financial responsibilty isn't a part of child rearing? US replied: ....believe that you can rear children without any money ... You must be really stupid to believe that, too. Once again, US seems incapable of answering a question, but cuts words out of context and sneers at them. It also can't be done without someone willing to spend the time and effort on the child. True, US. BOTH are needed. And the parents share the responsibility for both equally. Not one parent pays for being a parent and the other gets paid to be a parent. |
#425
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Don't Spawn 'Em If You're Gonna Pawn 'Em
* US * wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:28:44 -0800, "garbageteachr" wrote: So you are saying that alcoholic women do not need to be held responsible for their choices If your temporary lay ****ed a drunk woman who was passed out, what choice did she make? Since that is not what happened, your question is just another avoidance of the questions being asked. As for the choices women have, they can practice abstinence have their tubes tied take birth control pills or use another method of birth control have an abortion leave the child at a drop-off center give the child up for adoption let the father raise the child share custody 50/50 with dad Lots of choices. |
#426
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Police: Man faked death to avoid child support
test
"Beverly" wrote in message ... On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 04:44:30 GMT, WhyNotMe wrote: teachrmama wrote: "WhyNotMe" wrote in message news:FGWAf.718595$x96.379007@attbi_s72... teachrmama wrote: "WhyNotMe" wrote in message news:6qSAf.508245$084.209812@attbi_s22... DB wrote: "WhyNotMe" wrote in A decent man wants his child's life to improve as his own situation improves. Please note, I said a decent man. There are plenty that prefer to spend that raise on a new car, new honey, new boat, etc... Yes, and a decent society would allow him to show this on his own instead of being strong armed by the state. Seems the American way is to mandate the State's will by force! There are hundreds and thousands of child support cases that are handled without any state involvement. It is a fact, however, that the vast, vast majority of non-custodial parents do not pay on time and in full & the assistance of the government is needed in collecting even the generally modest amounts that are ordered by courts. The federal CSE program essntially started in 1975 & was in response to a glaring need that was not being met by the courts and private attorneys. Prior to that there was a long, long, long period of time in which the willingness of (mainly) male non-custodial parents to do the decent thing was demonstrated pretty conclusively. The taxpayers, by the way, were left to foot the bill in most instances. Can you please post a cite for your statements above? Where we live, ALL court ordered child support is done by wage garnishment. ALL! In my husband's case (he did not even know about the child until she was almost 13, btw) his wages are garnished on the 1st of each month, as ordered by the court. However, CSE counts him as delinquent each and every month, even though the money is paid exactly according to court order. He has NEVER missed a payment--but statistics count him among the deadbeats. You know what they say: There are lies, d*mn lies, and statistics. There are not nearly as many deadbeats out there as you have been led to believe. You are wrong. Virtually every really high dollar divorce case involving significant dollar amounts are handled by private attorneys and the state CSE apparatus has nothing to do with any of the intrusiveness complained about in the prior posts. I sincerely doubt that in your husband's case, if the facts are as you stated, that he is "counted as delinquent" (whatever that means - how would you know how they count him?) On the contrary, I know exactly how he is counted. He was assigned 2 years of arrearages from the moment paternity was proved--even though he did not know the child existed. Every monthly payment is counted as late because it is garnished on the 1st AND due on the first. Our house has a lien on it, even though he has not missed a single payment in over 4 years, and the arrearage is almost paid off. Our income tax refund this year will nearly wipe it out. The CS arreearage is on his credit report--even though he has never missed a payment. And guess what else. Although our income tax refund was grabbed every year for last 4 years, they never counted it. Never took it off the arrearage. We had to file several demands before they even looked into it. They were fixing on assigning an additional amount of money garnished from his wages to GET THE MONEY THEY HAD ALREADY TAKEN!! Such a kind, sweet agency you are defending! As for lies, damned lies and statistics, you left out one category - facts. Ah, yes. Facts. Like the ones I stated above. Like the fact that we were told by the court that our 2 daughters are irrelevant. That's right--irrelevant. This agency that supposedly looks out for the best interests of the children really only looks out for certain children and does not give a rat's tookus if other children are forced into poverty by their methods. Facts, yes. There are, in fact, many more deadbeats than most people know. Nationwide, on average, only 59% of the currently monthly child support ordered by the courts is paid. Really? And the payments garnished from my husband's wages are NOT COUNTED as paid on time. It's just a matter of how the payments are recorded. Last spring, the social worked who deals with the mother of his child called and asked when the current month's child support would be paid. He told her it has been garnished from his wages as always. But it hadn't arrived. It got there 2 months late! AND it is recorded as 2 months late on his CSE account. Even though it was garnished and sent in the same as every other month! In addition, only 60% of the cases that had developed an arrearage receive any sort of payment in any given year. Check out the following link: http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cse/...minary_report/ #box_scores These numbers, while shocking, have been improving steadily over the last ten to 15 years. Bush and the Repugs, however, just slashed federal funding of the CSE programs to the States as apart of their "budget discipline" exercise just before Christmas (I mean the Holidays.) So, these facts will only worsen. Although I suppose that all depends on your point of view. Why don't you explain what you think this link is saying. I'd be very curious to hear your interpretation. Well, that's a lot to respond to & I'll probably anger you with my views, but here goes: If the Court or whoever entered an order that said your husband was responsible for payment of two years of past due support, then, yes, that amount is overdue and payment toward the amount is delinquent even if every payment since the order was entered has been made on time. There was a prior period of time that the child was in need of support and did not have it from him & now he is repaying. What you are saying is like if I said I am making the required minimum payments to VISA on a $5,000.00 balance each month. Yes, I am doing what I am required to do, and I can be considered to be making timely payments but I am still behind and delinquent to the tune of $5,000.00 In the financial world, the terms "delinquency" and "debt" are not equivalent. While every delinquency is a debt by its very nature (there must be a debt before a delinquency can occur), not every debt is a delinquency. Your credit card scenario leaves you with a debt with no delinquency. BOTH can have negative impacts on your credit score; however, a delinquency is always viewed negatively. For your information, not all debt is bad. In the particular case being discussed, it is more akin to opening a credit card while in college, closing the card a year after your last known transaction, and finding a collections agency on your credit report 10 years later because a merchant had neglected to submit the charges in a timely fashion. Yes, there was irresponsibility on the part of the card holder, but the merchant ALSO had a responsibility it neglected. The main difference between a credit card charge and child support is that it is more likely the merchant would be held accountable for its own neglect than a single mother would be. I support mandatory notification of potential paternity for cases just like the one being discussed. Further, since the past due amount has been ordered due why shouldn't every effort be made to pay it off as quickly as possible via tax refund intercepts and other means. After all, you are repaying money that should have been paid in support of the child during a previous time. And why shouldn't the child support debt information be available to creditors? It is a bill that he owes like any other and if he is paying on it then those payments will be reflected to his credit as a bill being paid on time. A lien on a house only affects you if you are selling the house. If you are selling, why shouldn't the custodial parent have that tool to be sure that she gets her past due payment? It all makes a great deal of sense to me. But what DOESN'Tmake sense is having a court order to pay $X toward current child support and $Y toward a debt established on the day of the order, paying $X and $Y religiously in the ordered amounts, and having all payments applied only to Y. "Paying as agreed" is applicable, not "delinquent." Furthermore, how does harming a man's credit thereby decreasing his cash flow improve his ability to pay off his debt? Fact of the matter is... child support enforcement tactics do more to inhibit the ability to pay than they do to encourage payment when the ability to pay is borderline... and inability to pay is a major cause of delinquencies. Yes, there are real deadbeats out there; however, "deadbeat" and "delinquent" are similarly unequal to "debt" and "delinquent." One must be delinquent to be a deadbeat by its very nature, but certainly does not need to be a deadbeat to be delinquent. I need to ask you a question concerning X and Y to see what your response is. Let's say you live in a very rural area where all utilities are collected by the same company. If you are have two utility bills due, say telephone and water, and do not have enough to cover your utility bills in their entirety and make payment arrangements for the telephone bill; would it be proper for the company to apply all payments first to telephone (since T comes before W) and the remainder toward water causing your water to be shut off for non-payment? If there are payments that you say have not been properly credited, why not supply the agency with proof and clear the matter up. How did four years of supposed tax payments not get credited? I certainly would know whether money taken from me was properly accounted for & would never let four years go by without some answers if I wasn't properly credited. I think we each have a responsibility to diligently attend to our own affairs, so I am sorry I don't have much sympathy if he's let it go so long without getting it corrected. Do you live in the United States? If so, I am sincerely happy you have not had to experience clearing up a governmental mistake. If you have experienced it, you'd have never have said what you said. As for your two daughters, I understand that your husband having to be responsible for his first child or children is going to be tough on the subsequent children. The person you should really be angry at, however, is your husband. He had no business producing more children if he was not supporting his first ones. What you are really saying is that you children's standard of living should not be reduced so that the first child may have its needs supported by his or her father. I'll assume that your husband did not know of the first child when the second children were born. Your husband knew he was screwing around at some point without protection and that he might have had this child. In my opinion the answer is not to deprive the first child so that he may better support the second two. They should all share. Maybe that means that he should work an additional job so that he can afford his debts to all his children. After several years went by, he had a reasonable expectation that having children with the woman he married would be his first (and only) children. Furthermore, I wonder what makes you assume he used no protection? I was on birth control pills when my eldest was conceived and birth control pills have a higher success rate in preventing conception than does anything readily available to a man (and I'm talking birth control methods commonly used here, not abstinence or surgery). The point at hand, however, is that the government affords the younger children NOTHING when deciding how much the older child should get. And, given our system, even age is not the determining factor in deciding which child gets preference. Preference is determined by date of court order. Is there any reason why a married woman should have a child support order in place to receive payments from her husband? These children don't even exist in the eyes of child support enforcement. So much for thinking that child support enforcement has children's (as a class) best interests at heart. By the way, an infant can have preference over a teenager should the court order for the infant be established first. If you truly believe the children should share, then our current child support system does not support your beliefs. Finally, the link was provided in response to your assertion that there were not nearly as many deadbeats out there as I have been led to believe. The link is to the fed's yearly report on child support collections & includes nationwide and state by state figures. Nationwide less than 60% of the current support that is supposed to be paid is, in fact, paid. Further, for all the cases in which payments fall behind and a delinquency develops, only about 60% of those cases ever receive even one payment toward that arrearage in a years time. There are many, many, many more deadbeats out there than people realize and that report was cited, at your request, to support my assertion. And thanks to bush and the repugs funding has been slashed to the program and those numbers may be expected to worsen. As I pointed out, of course, "worsen" is kind of a relative term. There are many, no doubt, who will see less vigorous enforcement of child support obligations as a good thing. My parents, fortunately, raised me better than that, If it is the government that is misapplying payments (as well as consistently behind in applications), how much should we trust their figures? Beverly |
#427
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Don't Spawn 'Em If You're Gonna Pawn 'Em
"teachrmama" wrote in message ... * US * wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:18:19 -0800, "garbageteachr" wrote: Good--now let's go one step further. Do you believe that both men and women are responsible to provide for their children FINANCIALLY? There's a concept called opportunity cost. Of course you're too stupid to know what it means, but it entails the fact that the person providing caregiving is providing for the child financially. Where does the mother who is doing the caretaking get the money to provide financially? Does the mother earn money at a job? Or do you believe that the mother should be paid by the father for handling the responsibilities she took on when she chose to create a child? I don't know who cracks me up mo the bizarre replies from the other poster or you dancing with this fool. It's a hoot, to say the least. |
#428
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Police: Man faked death to avoid child support
test
"Beverly" wrote in message news This news story makes so little sense, IMO. I can't imagine anything of a legal nature taking only a report of a death as fact and not requiring a death certificate as proof. There has to be more to this story. If I was told that my children's father had died as a cause for discontinued child support, I'd apply for survivor's benefits through Social Security for my children. How is it that Social Security would have never caught this? If these benefits were not applied for, I'd have to ask why not and wonder if the mother made a deal with the father that she would call and report his death and not pursue matters further if he would just walk away (which some mothers would prefer). If that were the case, the current court would be remiss in letting her have her cake and eat it too. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:50:04 GMT, "Winston Smith, American Patriot" wrote: laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE wrote in : Good idea. Child support is actually wife support. Wife support? Don't you mean "that ****ing bitch" support? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10924038/ Police: Man faked death to avoid child support 'Ultimate deadbeat dad' now owes more than $30,000 for two kids Updated: 10:48 a.m. ET Jan. 19, 2006 COLUMBIA, S.C. - Police arrested a man accused of faking his death more than 25 years ago to avoid paying child support. Johnny Sterling Martin, 58, had a relative call Family Court in 1979 and report that he died during a bar fight in Alabama, authorities said. That call came a few months after he escaped from a work detail while serving a one-year jail term for failing to pay $4,120 in support for two children. He was captured Tuesday and jailed, and now owes more than $30,000 in child support and faces an escape charge, authorities said. "Johnny Martin is the ultimate deadbeat dad, faking his own death to avoid paying money to support his young children who were living in Lexington County," Sheriff James Metts said. Martin has been living in Myrtle Beach, about 150 miles away, and had been using his real name for about 20 years, investigators. He has been married four times - twice since his disappearance - and has a third child, sheriff's Maj. John Allard said. The investigation was reopened last week when police got a tip from one of Martin's ex-wives that he was alive and living in Myrtle Beach. A fingerprint analysis confirmed Martin's identity, investigators said. They are working to identify the caller who told family court Martin was dead. Beverly |
#429
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Don't Spawn 'Em If You're Gonna Pawn 'Em
"Chris" wrote in message news:2BjDf.15721$sA3.3058@fed1read02... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... * US * wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:18:19 -0800, "garbageteachr" wrote: Good--now let's go one step further. Do you believe that both men and women are responsible to provide for their children FINANCIALLY? There's a concept called opportunity cost. Of course you're too stupid to know what it means, but it entails the fact that the person providing caregiving is providing for the child financially. Where does the mother who is doing the caretaking get the money to provide financially? Does the mother earn money at a job? Or do you believe that the mother should be paid by the father for handling the responsibilities she took on when she chose to create a child? I don't know who cracks me up mo the bizarre replies from the other poster or you dancing with this fool. It's a hoot, to say the least. I've been finding the responses quite interesting. The idea that a woman is "providing financially" for a child simply by refusing to go out and get a job and staying home all day is a bizarre one. |
#430
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Don't Spawn 'Em If You're Gonna Pawn 'Em
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:04:44 -0800, "Chris" wrote:
... concept foreign ... You're not good with concepts. Otherwise, you'd know that any man who does not want to have children can avoid doing so. On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:17:11 -0800, "Chris" wrote: ... a drug habit ... That explains your incapacity to process information or to ascribe responsibility to men. On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:07:26 -0800, "Chris" wrote: ...a quote I have attributed all quotes correctly. Learn to locate attributions if you can. Then learn not to lie about irrelevancies, and perhaps you'll earn respect someday. On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:30:13 -0800, "Chris" wrote: You are attributing words to me that are not even mine. You are mistaken. On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:53:00 -0800, "Chris" wrote: Translation: lack of funds = stupidity. Apparently you aren't proficient with language. Those who don't have enough money to support kids don't need to have any. Those who can't figure out what it costs shouldn't. On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:08:26 GMT, "Gini Dimwit" wrote: ... the best you could do ... I'm not the one having kids I can't afford to raise. ...She has a choice. He does not... You are clueless. Any man who doesn't want to deal with paternity can get fixed, use contraception, or keep it in his pants. Nobody else owes any man management of paternity. On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 20:42:51 GMT, "Gini Dimwit" wrote: ...I assumed ... You thus make an ass of yourself. No one forces a man to undertake fatherhood. When he does so, he becomes responsible for it. On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:27:56 GMT, "Gini" wrote: Umm...It was the mother (with assistance of the state) whose methods caused She raped a man and forbade his use of birth control? Oh, do tell. On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:40:44 -0500, "P. Fritz" paulfritz ATvoyager DOTnet wrote: Yawn So you're an idiot due to oxygen deprivation. Thanks for the confirmation. If only women were held to that standard. So you hate women and want to try to blame them for not managing _paternities_. You're not merely misogynist, but stupid. On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:49:20 -0500, "P. Fritz" paulfritz ATvoyager DOTnet wrote: Yet another clueless boob. You must be, if you can't even understand that responsible adults don't have kids they can't afford to raise. On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 19:14:35 -0800, "teachrmama" wrote: ... does not give a rat's tookus if other children are forced into poverty by their methods ... Yes, you don't care that your 'methods' cause your own children to suffer. You can't control yourself. ... the payments garnished from my husband's wages are NOT COUNTED as paid on time ... If you weren't really stupid, you could've solved that 'problem' a long time ago, with but one extra properly-timed payment. Those as unintelligent as you and your temporary partner shouldn't be permitted to procreate, actually. |
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