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The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)



 
 
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  #371  
Old March 22nd 06, 04:02 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
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Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)

"teachrmama" )accurately points out:
"tonita" whined in message
oups.com...
Well, I wouldn't consider that an ideal start for a newborn to be
schlepped back and forth. All babies need their mommies. Daddies
perform different roles even though most people today disagree.
Everyone wants to change human nature. But yes, both parents should
have equal rights but you can't cut a child in half.


Maybe, Tonita, having to share a newborn with a father who lived in a
different household would wake the woman up and make her realize how
precious that young life is. The woman does not have a "right" to the
infant! Any more than she has a "right" to a percentage of a man's
paycheck. Maybe if both men and women faced inconvenience and lack of time
with the child, both genders would begin to realize that they need to be
more responsible in their choices. Right now, men lose out on both time
with the child (which can never be recovered) and $$ from their paychecks.
Women have the privilege of having their child with them and get $$ from the
father's paycheck. THE CHILD needs BOTH parents. THE CHILD does not need
either one more than the other. If we are truly thinking about the child,
let's make sure the child gets what he really needs--2 parents. And let
each parent pay their own way!


Two words: Damn. Straight.

Apparently, "tonita" doesn't get it wrt equal rights and equal
*responsibilities*...

Men can't gestate, but they CAN feed baby a bottle. 50/50 joint custody
from day 1, with mom expressing milk if she insists on feeding baby only
mother's milk. Otherwise, formula will work just fine. It takes 2 to
create a child--2, then, should have equal rights and responsibilities.


Andre

  #372  
Old March 22nd 06, 04:14 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
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Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)

A. Because it disrupts the flow of inquiry, followed by resonses.
Q. Why is top posting a habit of retards ?

"tonita" ) whines sexistly:
If a man sires a kid he should pay support for the kid. Simple
concept.


" Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility*. "

Simple concept.

I have been responding in the context of the original post
about a guy not wanting to pay financial support for a "surprise" baby.


" Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility*. "

Only sexist morons believe that there is shared responsibility when
ONLY ONE person gets to make ALL the POST-coital decisions...

Of course I believe that both parents should be involved in the
rearing of the kid. I also believe that kids should be raised in a
cohesive, two-parent home, that men and women should behave like adults
and keep their hormones in check,


But, women DON'T, eh ?

Busted again, oh misandrist.

that men and women have different
roles in the family, that feminists today are sad, pathetic creatures.


Well, those two are right.

If a woman posted something similar I would have the same message for
her. If you don't want a child, don't engage in behavior that will
create one.


Non morons understand that that is *precisely the argument against
ALl female only POSTR coital choices...

Intercourse can lead to pregnancy no matter what kind of
birth control you are using outside of abstinence. No one should be
surprised or horrified if there is a pregnancy after sexual
intercourse. It happens. There is no "trickery" involved.


Insane. USING a man's genetic materials in ways he was NOT asked
if he would allow, IS " trickery ", as well as deceit.

teachrmama wrote:
"tonita" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dogs and cats breed without thought. Humans are supposed to have
evolved above that level. No one *has* to give in to that drive.

It's too bad everyone couldn't stay focused on the topic without all
the bitterness taking over. Nothing will ever be solved in such a
scattered way. Everyone wants to have their "Sex In The City" moments
but refuse to consider the consequences after the fact. Hence the
state of our world today. Too many fatherless kids, not enough
personal accountability. Everyone wants theirs and to hell with
everyone else. Someone else is always to blame. No more grit and
backbone. Everyone is weak and must cater to their "feelings" above
all else. Kind of makes for a very weak society in general and it
certainly shows. I feel sad really. Kids are hurthing and the adults
care very little about their psyches. As long as all the men and women
are happily screwing, who cares? The kids will get over it, the kids
will be fine, the kids don't care what the parents do. Go ahead and
believe all that if that's what it takes to get through the day. There
*are* good men and women in the world and I mean *real* men and women,
not these morons who are behaving like juveniles. They're out there
raising good kids, focusing on their families and working together to
keep it together. They're not worried if they're going to feel good
every second, or being happy every second. It's hard work and they're
up for it. They're not into the blame game or the emotional tennis
match, batting the blaming ball back and forth. Real men aren't guided
by their penises and won't risk it all for some woman they hardly know.
They actually care about who becomes the mother of their children.
Real women are discerning and don't let just anyone into their bodies
just for the momentary feelings. Real men and women don't have any
interest in abortion issues or who's responsible for the pregnancy.
They don't have to because they don't indulge in the self serving
behavior that's created this mess in the first place. They don't have
the "me, me, me" mindset. They sacrifice for the sake of their
families. Yes, it's a very sad state and I suppose it will only get
worse given the types of responses to this post. Everyone will just
continue to blame someone else.


There is a *big difference* between blaming someone else, and accepting
equal responsibility. Don't you think that BOTH PARENTS should have equal
rights and responsibilities in the raising of their children? Or do you
really believe that the woman should raise the child and the man should
pay for it?


Clearly, man hating sexist sows like "tonita" just " don't get it ".

Equal responsibility, that is...

Andre



  #373  
Old March 22nd 06, 04:20 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce,alt.child-support
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Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)

"Dusty" ) writes:
"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

Toni's starting to sound an awful lot like Moonie.... Never answers a
straight question with a straight answer. It's always the "I know you
are, but what am I?" type of response.


Indeed. Its the mark of the man hating entitlement queens.

Men make at least as good parents as do women. Its pure misandrous
sexism to claim or imply otherwise.

Thus, ANY system that defines motherhood as having the child in
one's care, but defines fatherhood as " sending more and more $$$
to the mommy " IS specifically misandrous.

And, those who defend misandrous systems are clearly man hating
sexist retards.

Andre

  #374  
Old March 22nd 06, 04:23 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce,alt.child-support
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Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)

"Bob Whiteside" ) points out with devastating
factual accuracy:
"tonita" whined sexistly in message
oups.com...
Well, I wouldn't consider that an ideal start for a newborn to be
schlepped back and forth. All babies need their mommies. Daddies
perform different roles even though most people today disagree.
Everyone wants to change human nature. But yes, both parents should
have equal rights but you can't cut a child in half.


I will never understand the female logic that it's okay for a newborn child
to be "schlepped back and forth" from daycare 10 times per week, but it is
not okay for a newborn child to be "schlepped back and forth" from their
father a couple of times a week.


Bingo !

Why aren't the trips to and from daycare worse than far fewer trips to be
with the father?


Because mommy *controls* the day care...

Why is it a mother would entrust a child to a daycare worker before they
would entrust a child to the baby's father?


Because such a mommy is a man hating sexist slag-ho, pimping her
bay-bee.

Andre



  #375  
Old March 23rd 06, 03:49 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
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Posts: n/a
Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)

"Andre Lieven" wrote in message
...
"teachrmama" )accurately points out:
"tonita" whined in message
oups.com...
Well, I wouldn't consider that an ideal start for a newborn to be
schlepped back and forth. All babies need their mommies. Daddies
perform different roles even though most people today disagree.
Everyone wants to change human nature. But yes, both parents should
have equal rights but you can't cut a child in half.


Maybe, Tonita, having to share a newborn with a father who lived in a
different household would wake the woman up and make her realize how
precious that young life is. The woman does not have a "right" to the
infant! Any more than she has a "right" to a percentage of a man's
paycheck. Maybe if both men and women faced inconvenience and lack of
time
with the child, both genders would begin to realize that they need to be
more responsible in their choices. Right now, men lose out on both time
with the child (which can never be recovered) and $$ from their
paychecks.
Women have the privilege of having their child with them and get $$ from
the
father's paycheck. THE CHILD needs BOTH parents. THE CHILD does not
need
either one more than the other. If we are truly thinking about the
child,
let's make sure the child gets what he really needs--2 parents. And let
each parent pay their own way!


Two words: Damn. Straight.

Apparently, "tonita" doesn't get it wrt equal rights and equal
*responsibilities*...


Oh come now, Andre. Of course Tonita gets the idea of equal rights and
responsibilities - so long as Mommy gets the rights and Daddy gets all the
responsibility, that's equal.


  #376  
Old March 23rd 06, 04:39 AM posted to alt.mens-rights,alt.child-support,alt.support.divorce
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)

"Dusty" ) writes:
"Andre Lieven" wrote in message
...
"teachrmama" )accurately points out:
"tonita" whined in message
oups.com...
Well, I wouldn't consider that an ideal start for a newborn to be
schlepped back and forth. All babies need their mommies. Daddies
perform different roles even though most people today disagree.
Everyone wants to change human nature. But yes, both parents should
have equal rights but you can't cut a child in half.

Maybe, Tonita, having to share a newborn with a father who lived in a
different household would wake the woman up and make her realize how
precious that young life is. The woman does not have a "right" to the
infant! Any more than she has a "right" to a percentage of a man's
paycheck. Maybe if both men and women faced inconvenience and lack of
time
with the child, both genders would begin to realize that they need to be
more responsible in their choices. Right now, men lose out on both time
with the child (which can never be recovered) and $$ from their
paychecks.
Women have the privilege of having their child with them and get $$ from
the father's paycheck. THE CHILD needs BOTH parents. THE CHILD does
not need either one more than the other. If we are truly thinking about
the child, let's make sure the child gets what he really needs--2
parents. And let each parent pay their own way!


Two words: Damn. Straight.

Apparently, "tonita" doesn't get it wrt equal rights and equal
*responsibilities*...


Oh come now, Andre. Of course Tonita gets the idea of equal rights and
responsibilities - so long as Mommy gets the rights and Daddy gets all the
responsibility, that's equal.


Exactly. That is proof of her sexism and misandry. Not to mention her
INability to face the fact that both are busted.

" Men are people, too ? " gasped the surprised and irritated
WomenFirster bigot.

Andre



  #377  
Old March 24th 06, 01:46 AM posted to alt.child-support
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Posts: n/a
Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)

"Dusty" wrote in message
...
"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Dusty" wrote in message
...
"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Dusty" wrote in message
...
"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
news:_NZSf.1086$5F1.18@fed1read08...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Dusty" wrote in message
...
"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

[snip]

For all of Gini's babble about how the woman is only fertile at
one
point in her cycle, what she overlooks is
that sperm may live in the female reproductive tract for up to 7
days
and fertilization may occur even days after
intercourse.

Which is something you contradict yourself on in several previous
posts
(no, I ain't gonna spoon feed ya either - go
look it up). You yourself have stated that MEN must be the
primary
party responsible for all births

Um, no, I haven't. Haven't said anything even remotely along those
lines.
I have said that men need to be taking
responsibility for their own birth control though.

Last I checked, men don't control birth.

When they control their own fertility, they sure do. No conception,
no birth. That's how it works.

Please explain how men control their own fertility? This I gotta
hear...

By using whatever birth control methods are available - rhythm method,
condoms, abstinence, only having sex with someone they KNOW is not
fertile (as in sterile) and sterility are currently the available
choices. If and when a male pill becomes available, that will be
another option.

Not, that's not it. I want you to tell us how a man is in control of
his fertility, not a list of birth control options. How does one do
that Moonie? How do you control something that you have no control
over??

Birth control is one thing, controlling one's own fertility is quite
another.


Ah.... "I didn't ask about the brakes, I want to know how you stop your
car."

You control your fertility by managing and being responsible for it.

By using whatever birth control methods are available.

If you can't understand that, then you probably shouldn't be having sex.


No Moon. Like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target.

It's not a question about preventing insemination, it's about fertility.
You said men could control it. And I want you to tell me how that can be
done. Is there an some sort of hidden "Off" switch that men have, yet no
one ever told us about? Is there some sort of password that needs to be
spoken to gain access to this hidden ability?

And how is it you, of all people, lay claim that you know about this
secret when no one else on the planet has ever heard about it? Four
million years of evolution and you somehow have vital information about
the biology of the human species that no other person has ever discovered.
Wow.


OK, so no reply from Moonie for 5 days on how she has this previously
unknown information about the biology of humans that no one else has yet to
discover.

So, Moonie, no (timely) response equals you've been caught lying - again.
Next time, try not talking out your ass.


  #378  
Old March 24th 06, 03:16 AM posted to alt.child-support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)


"Dusty" wrote in message ...
"Dusty" wrote in message ...
"Moon Shyne" wrote in message ...

"Dusty" wrote in message ...
"Moon Shyne" wrote in message ...

"Dusty" wrote in message ...
"Moon Shyne" wrote in message ...

"Chris" wrote in message news:_NZSf.1086$5F1.18@fed1read08...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Dusty" wrote in message
...
"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

[snip]

For all of Gini's babble about how the woman is only fertile at one
point in her cycle, what she overlooks is
that sperm may live in the female reproductive tract for up to 7 days
and fertilization may occur even days after
intercourse.

Which is something you contradict yourself on in several previous posts
(no, I ain't gonna spoon feed ya either - go
look it up). You yourself have stated that MEN must be the primary
party responsible for all births

Um, no, I haven't. Haven't said anything even remotely along those lines.
I have said that men need to be taking
responsibility for their own birth control though.

Last I checked, men don't control birth.

When they control their own fertility, they sure do. No conception, no birth. That's how it works.

Please explain how men control their own fertility? This I gotta hear...

By using whatever birth control methods are available - rhythm method, condoms, abstinence, only having sex with
someone they KNOW is not fertile (as in sterile) and sterility are currently the available choices. If and when a
male pill becomes available, that will be another option.

Not, that's not it. I want you to tell us how a man is in control of his fertility, not a list of birth control
options. How does one do that Moonie? How do you control something that you have no control over??

Birth control is one thing, controlling one's own fertility is quite another.

Ah.... "I didn't ask about the brakes, I want to know how you stop your car."

You control your fertility by managing and being responsible for it.

By using whatever birth control methods are available.

If you can't understand that, then you probably shouldn't be having sex.


No Moon. Like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target.

It's not a question about preventing insemination, it's about fertility. You said men could control it. And I want
you to tell me how that can be done. Is there an some sort of hidden "Off" switch that men have, yet no one ever
told us about? Is there some sort of password that needs to be spoken to gain access to this hidden ability?

And how is it you, of all people, lay claim that you know about this secret when no one else on the planet has ever
heard about it? Four million years of evolution and you somehow have vital information about the biology of the
human species that no other person has ever discovered. Wow.


OK, so no reply from Moonie for 5 days on how she has this previously unknown information about the biology of humans
that no one else has yet to discover.

So, Moonie, no (timely) response equals you've been caught lying - again. Next time, try not talking out your ass.


No response means I was all done with your idiocy.

Next time, try engaging your brain first.






  #379  
Old March 24th 06, 03:29 AM posted to alt.child-support,alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)

Gini wrote:
"Ken Chaddock" wrote

Gini wrote:

"Ken Chaddock"wrote


In most jurisdictions in the US, an unmarried mother can put her child up
for adoption without the consent of the father and, if the father wants
to retain custody of the child, he must assume all legal and financial
responsibility by "adopting" his own child, thereby absolving the mother
of all legal and financial responsibility,

===
Where on earth did you get this?? In what jurisdictions must the father
adopt his own child? In what jurisdictions
can the child be put up for adoption without the father's consent (save
abandonment, which has strict criteria)?


There's a saying Gini; "the devil is in the details" and while the laws
are generally written in a non-gender biased language, the regulations and
enforcement are anything but with the effect that, as a father, you have
to "adopt" your child to get it from a mother who wants to put him/her up
for adoption...
The usual way this happens is that the mother decides to put the child up
for adoption, the father objects, there is a custody battle, the mother is
awarded full custody and then puts the child up for adoption (as she
wanted to all along) and the only way the father has any chance (and it's
not even that good a chance at that) of gaining custody is to adopt,
thereby relieving the mother of any obligations or responsibilities...


And this happened where? When? To whom?


It happens fairly regularly to many men...you either haven't you been
paying attention or are willfully blind...

....Ken
  #380  
Old March 24th 06, 04:59 AM posted to alt.child-support,alt.mens-rights,alt.support.divorce
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default The right to abandon your child (aka - Roe v. Wade for Men)


"Ken Chaddock" wrote in message
news:tQIUf.6068$%H.4714@clgrps13...
Gini wrote:
"Ken Chaddock" wrote

Gini wrote:

"Ken Chaddock"wrote


In most jurisdictions in the US, an unmarried mother can put her child
up for adoption without the consent of the father and, if the father
wants to retain custody of the child, he must assume all legal and
financial responsibility by "adopting" his own child, thereby absolving
the mother of all legal and financial responsibility,

===
Where on earth did you get this?? In what jurisdictions must the father
adopt his own child? In what jurisdictions
can the child be put up for adoption without the father's consent (save
abandonment, which has strict criteria)?

There's a saying Gini; "the devil is in the details" and while the laws
are generally written in a non-gender biased language, the regulations
and enforcement are anything but with the effect that, as a father, you
have to "adopt" your child to get it from a mother who wants to put
him/her up for adoption...
The usual way this happens is that the mother decides to put the child up
for adoption, the father objects, there is a custody battle, the mother
is awarded full custody and then puts the child up for adoption (as she
wanted to all along) and the only way the father has any chance (and it's
not even that good a chance at that) of gaining custody is to adopt,
thereby relieving the mother of any obligations or responsibilities...


And this happened where? When? To whom?


It happens fairly regularly to many men...you either haven't you been
paying attention or are willfully blind...

==
When? Where? Whom? Sweeping generalities are useless here. Perhaps, if you
cannot provide facts,
you can tell us where you acquired your experience in adoption law? Many men
come here looking
for help in family law matters. As much as we debate here, we do have an
interest in not giving out bad
information to cash-poor dads fighting the battles of their lives. So, until
you can come of with some real
world evidence that " in most jurisdictions in the US, an unmarried mother
can put her child up
for adoption without the consent of the father and, if the father wants
to retain custody of the child, he must assume all legal and financial
responsibility by "adopting" his own child, thereby absolving the mother
of all legal and financial responsibility," your assertion is best left in
the realm of conjecture.
==


 




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