Poor sports - or something worse?

A prize if you can name who wrote this column.
Lenona.



Q. My 8-year-old son is a poor sport. He's been asked to leave several
sports programs because of rudeness to other players and disrespect to
adults, but he doesn't seem to care. I think he's just not as
sports-minded as his dad wants him to be. His teachers report that he
is a bad sport if he can't be first to do whatever the class is doing.
When other children make mistakes in class, he makes fun of them. What
can we do to shape him up before he becomes the most disliked kid
around?

First, you need to pull your heads out of the sand.

It gives me no pleasure to tell you that you are not describing a child
who is simply a "poor sport." As his teachers have told you, his
behavior is a problem whether the context is sports or not.
Furthermore, this is obviously not a simple problem of not being
"sports-minded."

Your son is exhibiting some very pronounced antisocial behaviors that
are likely to worsen over time. Children who are verbal bullies at age
8 are likely to be physical bullies in their early teens. The
antisocial child is nearly always described, by the way, as not caring
what consequences ensue as a result of his or her behavior.

It's often, but not always, the case that children who frequently
engage in antisocial behavior of this sort come from families where
there is a high level of marital discord. If this describes your
situation, then it's vital to your son's emotional and social health
that you and your husband seek marriage and family counseling. Even if
this doesn't apply to you, it would be a good idea for you to seek a
family health evaluation from a qualified and experienced professional.

It is not always the case that antisocial children come from
problematic families. When family health is not the issue, I've had the
best outcomes with an approach I call "Kicking the child out of the
Garden of Eden." The child comes home from school one day to find that
his room has been "sterilized": All of his possessions save furniture
and essential (not to include favorite) clothing have been removed and
transferred to a storage unit that the child has no chance of
accessing. In addition, all electronics -- television, video games,
computer, CD player, even a radio -- are prohibited. At that point, the
child is put on a program that allows him to earn back possessions and
privileges one at a time, beginning with those he values the least.

A comprehensive list of "misfit" behaviors is drawn up and a copy is
given to the child. In this case, the list would include making fun of
or laughing at other children, being rude to other children or adults,
becoming angry if he can't be first, and so on.

Next, after checking with his teacher, you have him write a one-page
letter of apology -- a letter, mind you, not a sentence or paragraph --
to each and every child in his class or on a team that he has ever made
fun of or been rude toward. He must also write a letter to his teacher
and to his previous coaches. In these letters, he must not only
apologize for disrespectful behavior but also tell the person why the
behavior was wrong. Future antisocial outbursts require more letters of
apology.

Every week, you meet with his teacher to get a progress report. On
Friday evening, you have a home conference with your son at which his
progress, or lack of it, is reviewed. He can earn nothing back for two
weeks, after which good reports from his teacher, along with good
behavior at home and elsewhere, results in restoration of either one
possession or one privilege. (Remember, you determine what he gets
back, not him, and possessions/privileges are returned in "reverse
order.")

Given the seriousness of this problem, and regardless of your family
situation, you would do well to contract with a professional who can
help coach you through the inevitable backsliding and relapses that
will occur. At best, this is going to be a relatively long haul, and
the more support you have, the better.

wrote in
ups.com:

A prize if you can name who wrote this column.
Lenona.



Q. My 8-year-old son is a poor sport. He's been asked to
leave several sports programs because of rudeness to other
players and disrespect to adults, but he doesn't seem to
care. I think he's just not as sports-minded as his dad
wants him to be. His teachers report that he is a bad sport
if he can't be first to do whatever the class is doing.
When other children make mistakes in class, he makes fun of
them. What can we do to shape him up before he becomes the
most disliked kid around?

First, you need to pull your heads out of the sand.

It gives me no pleasure to tell you that you are not
describing a child who is simply a "poor sport." As his
teachers have told you, his behavior is a problem whether
the context is sports or not. Furthermore, this is
obviously not a simple problem of not being
"sports-minded."

Your son is exhibiting some very pronounced antisocial
behaviors that are likely to worsen over time. Children who
are verbal bullies at age 8 are likely to be physical
bullies in their early teens. The antisocial child is
nearly always described, by the way, as not caring what
consequences ensue as a result of his or her behavior.

It's often, but not always, the case that children who
frequently engage in antisocial behavior of this sort come
from families where there is a high level of marital
discord. If this describes your situation, then it's vital
to your son's emotional and social health that you and your
husband seek marriage and family counseling. Even if this
doesn't apply to you, it would be a good idea for you to
seek a family health evaluation from a qualified and
experienced professional.

It is not always the case that antisocial children come
from problematic families. When family health is not the
issue, I've had the best outcomes with an approach I call
"Kicking the child out of the Garden of Eden." The child
comes home from school one day to find that his room has
been "sterilized": All of his possessions save furniture
and essential (not to include favorite) clothing have been
removed and transferred to a storage unit that the child
has no chance of accessing. In addition, all electronics --
television, video games, computer, CD player, even a radio
-- are prohibited. At that point, the child is put on a
program that allows him to earn back possessions and
privileges one at a time, beginning with those he values
the least.

A comprehensive list of "misfit" behaviors is drawn up and
a copy is given to the child. In this case, the list would
include making fun of or laughing at other children, being
rude to other children or adults, becoming angry if he
can't be first, and so on.

Next, after checking with his teacher, you have him write a
one-page letter of apology -- a letter, mind you, not a
sentence or paragraph -- to each and every child in his
class or on a team that he has ever made fun of or been
rude toward. He must also write a letter to his teacher and
to his previous coaches. In these letters, he must not only
apologize for disrespectful behavior but also tell the
person why the behavior was wrong. Future antisocial
outbursts require more letters of apology.

Every week, you meet with his teacher to get a progress
report. On Friday evening, you have a home conference with
your son at which his progress, or lack of it, is reviewed.
He can earn nothing back for two weeks, after which good
reports from his teacher, along with good behavior at home
and elsewhere, results in restoration of either one
possession or one privilege. (Remember, you determine what
he gets back, not him, and possessions/privileges are
returned in "reverse order.")

Given the seriousness of this problem, and regardless of
your family situation, you would do well to contract with a
professional who can help coach you through the inevitable
backsliding and relapses that will occur. At best, this is
going to be a relatively long haul, and the more support
you have, the better.

lessons on how to raise a psychopath by James Dobson?
lee
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if
there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of
blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson

enigma wrote:
wrote in
ups.com:


A prize if you can name who wrote this column.
Lenona.

snip


It is not always the case that antisocial children come
from problematic families. When family health is not the
issue, I've had the best outcomes with an approach I call
"Kicking the child out of the Garden of Eden." The child
comes home from school one day to find that his room has
been "sterilized": All of his possessions save furniture
and essential (not to include favorite) clothing have been
removed and transferred to a storage unit that the child
has no chance of accessing. In addition, all electronics --
television, video games, computer, CD player, even a radio
-- are prohibited. At that point, the child is put on a
program that allows him to earn back possessions and
privileges one at a time, beginning with those he values
the least.

snip



lessons on how to raise a psychopath by James Dobson?
lee

Might be Rosemond ...

In article , enigma says...

wrote in
oups.com:

A prize if you can name who wrote this column.
Lenona.



Q. My 8-year-old son is a poor sport. He's been asked to
leave several sports programs because of rudeness to other
players and disrespect to adults, but he doesn't seem to
care. I think he's just not as sports-minded as his dad
wants him to be. His teachers report that he is a bad sport
if he can't be first to do whatever the class is doing.
When other children make mistakes in class, he makes fun of
them. What can we do to shape him up before he becomes the
most disliked kid around?

First, you need to pull your heads out of the sand.

It gives me no pleasure to tell you that you are not
describing a child who is simply a "poor sport." As his
teachers have told you, his behavior is a problem whether
the context is sports or not. Furthermore, this is
obviously not a simple problem of not being
"sports-minded."

Your son is exhibiting some very pronounced antisocial
behaviors that are likely to worsen over time. Children who
are verbal bullies at age 8 are likely to be physical
bullies in their early teens. The antisocial child is
nearly always described, by the way, as not caring what
consequences ensue as a result of his or her behavior.

It's often, but not always, the case that children who
frequently engage in antisocial behavior of this sort come
from families where there is a high level of marital
discord. If this describes your situation, then it's vital
to your son's emotional and social health that you and your
husband seek marriage and family counseling. Even if this
doesn't apply to you, it would be a good idea for you to
seek a family health evaluation from a qualified and
experienced professional.

It is not always the case that antisocial children come
from problematic families. When family health is not the
issue, I've had the best outcomes with an approach I call
"Kicking the child out of the Garden of Eden." The child
comes home from school one day to find that his room has
been "sterilized": All of his possessions save furniture
and essential (not to include favorite) clothing have been
removed and transferred to a storage unit that the child
has no chance of accessing. In addition, all electronics --
television, video games, computer, CD player, even a radio
-- are prohibited. At that point, the child is put on a
program that allows him to earn back possessions and
privileges one at a time, beginning with those he values
the least.

A comprehensive list of "misfit" behaviors is drawn up and
a copy is given to the child. In this case, the list would
include making fun of or laughing at other children, being
rude to other children or adults, becoming angry if he
can't be first, and so on.

Next, after checking with his teacher, you have him write a
one-page letter of apology -- a letter, mind you, not a
sentence or paragraph -- to each and every child in his
class or on a team that he has ever made fun of or been
rude toward. He must also write a letter to his teacher and
to his previous coaches. In these letters, he must not only
apologize for disrespectful behavior but also tell the
person why the behavior was wrong. Future antisocial
outbursts require more letters of apology.

Every week, you meet with his teacher to get a progress
report. On Friday evening, you have a home conference with
your son at which his progress, or lack of it, is reviewed.
He can earn nothing back for two weeks, after which good
reports from his teacher, along with good behavior at home
and elsewhere, results in restoration of either one
possession or one privilege. (Remember, you determine what
he gets back, not him, and possessions/privileges are
returned in "reverse order.")

Given the seriousness of this problem, and regardless of
your family situation, you would do well to contract with a
professional who can help coach you through the inevitable
backsliding and relapses that will occur. At best, this is
going to be a relatively long haul, and the more support
you have, the better.

lessons on how to raise a psychopath by James Dobson?
lee

Actually, yet another quoted diatribe having to do with parenting posted to
either misc.kids or alt.fan.miss-manners by a childfree regular.

Banty

Laura Faussone wrote:
enigma wrote:
wrote in
ups.com:


A prize if you can name who wrote this column.
Lenona.

snip


It is not always the case that antisocial children come
from problematic families. When family health is not the
issue, I've had the best outcomes with an approach I call
"Kicking the child out of the Garden of Eden." The child
comes home from school one day to find that his room has
been "sterilized": All of his possessions save furniture
and essential (not to include favorite) clothing have been
removed and transferred to a storage unit that the child
has no chance of accessing. In addition, all electronics --
television, video games, computer, CD player, even a radio
-- are prohibited. At that point, the child is put on a
program that allows him to earn back possessions and
privileges one at a time, beginning with those he values
the least.

snip



lessons on how to raise a psychopath by James Dobson?
lee

Might be Rosemond ...

I think we have a winner ... at least according to what the Original
Troll posted on childfree. But IMHO Lee also hit it on the head except
for the author's name.

Barbara

Actualy a few years ago Dr. Laura gave simular advice but for a differant
offence.. it was for a girl not doing her homework I believe.

Tori
I think we have a winner ... at least according to what the Original
Troll posted on childfree. But IMHO Lee also hit it on the head except
for the author's name.

Barbara

Tori M wrote:
Actualy a few years ago Dr. Laura gave simular advice but for a differant
offence.. it was for a girl not doing her homework I believe.

Tori
I think we have a winner ... at least according to what the Original
Troll posted on childfree. But IMHO Lee also hit it on the head except
for the author's name.

The author or the source of the post aside, how would a parent deal
with this situation that would be better than the advice? (I'm not
saying I'm on the side of the advice, only that I'm curious what the
best way to handle it really is).

Cathy Weeks

"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
ps.com...

Tori M wrote:
Actualy a few years ago Dr. Laura gave simular advice but for a differant
offence.. it was for a girl not doing her homework I believe.

Tori
I think we have a winner ... at least according to what the Original
Troll posted on childfree. But IMHO Lee also hit it on the head except
for the author's name.

The author or the source of the post aside, how would a parent deal
with this situation that would be better than the advice? (I'm not
saying I'm on the side of the advice, only that I'm curious what the
best way to handle it really is).

I personaly think writing letters of apology to each of the people effected
is a good idea.. I think taking all the stuff away is a bit much for
starting out. He is definatly a bully.

Tori

In article om,
"Cathy Weeks" wrote:

The author or the source of the post aside, how would a parent deal
with this situation that would be better than the advice? (I'm not
saying I'm on the side of the advice, only that I'm curious what the
best way to handle it really is).

(I was going to guess Dr Laura or the Pearls.)

To restate the problem:
An 8-year-old boy is so rude to players and adults in several different
sporting programs that he is expelled from them. He makes fun of other
children who make mistakes in class and gets angry (?) if he isn't first to do
things in class (not sure what things, but i don't think it's finishing the
work!).

Solution?
Well, you'd wonder what the parents were doing while their kid was being rude
in the sporting programs, and why there was no reaction from them about his
behaviour the first time. One wonders what standards they require from him,
and what example they are setting. So I'd be looking at some kind of parental
re-education, like PPP.

Unfortunately, recent events in a family of our acquaintance suggest that
mental illness should always be considered a possibility when children have
poor behaviour over a long period :-(

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Tori M wrote:
"Cathy Weeks" wrote in message
ps.com...

Tori M wrote:
Actualy a few years ago Dr. Laura gave simular advice but for a differant
offence.. it was for a girl not doing her homework I believe.

Tori
I think we have a winner ... at least according to what the Original
Troll posted on childfree. But IMHO Lee also hit it on the head except
for the author's name.

The author or the source of the post aside, how would a parent deal
with this situation that would be better than the advice? (I'm not
saying I'm on the side of the advice, only that I'm curious what the
best way to handle it really is).

I personaly think writing letters of apology to each of the people effected
is a good idea.. I think taking all the stuff away is a bit much for
starting out. He is definatly a bully.

I agree that the child is a bully.

I don't know how I feel about the letter writing. I know that its a
classic 12-step-program approach, but that's for adults. I fear that
it would only serve to humiliate the child, which is not a good
approach IMHO. Imagine letters of this type in the hands of kids ...
oy!

Same thing for removal of *everything* from his room except furniture,
including everything but the most basic clothes (and, the article
suggests, certainly take away his *favorite* clothes -- which basically
amounts to make the kid dress like a geek to humiliate him). No TV, no
video games, no toys, no craft supplies, no favorite books. What's
this kid going to do with his time? What are you doing other than
making a kid who is already clearly angry, and who already clearly
cannot channel that anger in an appropriate manner, still more angry?

The first step is for this family to seek professional help. If this
child is really acting so monstrously and the parents don't even
recognize that a problem exists, they need help, as does the child.
The parents need to talk to the child, try to find out *why* he acts
that way. It cannot make him happy, given that he's basically been
ostracized as a result. They need to explain to him what is expected
of him. They need to help model that behavior, and they need to ensure
that he has opportunities to engage in that behavior.

And sure, you can take away privileges. Right now, One has no
entertainment TV or electronics because he *forgot* that his book
report is due next Monday (he'd claimed it was due the week AFTER
Thanksgiving); he'll get them back when he completes his work to my
satisfaction (and, therefore, has a bit of free time). But I certainly
haven't rented a storage place for the living room television. In
fact, he still gets to watch the evening news, drape his favorite
blanket over his shoulders if he gets chilly, wear his favorite shirt
to school, and sleep with his Bunny at night. Its not *scorched
earth.* I'm trying to direct One's time towards what he needs to do
and away from distractions. These parents need to do the same --
remove some privileges and redirect the child's attention in a positive
way.

Barbara