How can I prosecute Child Stealing / Custodial Interference (CALPC 278.5)

"Beverly" wrote in message
...
I am always willing to stand corrected... better yet if the correcting
party is right. I'm not so certain you are right, however. Further
discussion in line:

snip
3. Many crimes are not a crime which causes active investigation.
The police may have had what is called a "bench warrant" issued and,
basically, in order to be arrested, the criminal must be caught doing
something else.

Typical for civil actions, not criminal

I don't think civil actions have any kind of warrant at all.

There is a bench warrant in my city for someone whom threated my life
once. I suppose it wouldn't have been a bench warrant if he actually
tried (sure hope not). Fact is... I understood why the police would
do only that. A threat, while illegal, was not enough to extradite
and the man fled the state. Doesn't matter to me. I only wanted it
on record in case something happened to me.
--------------------------
Maybe it was best for him to 'have it on record'.

It's hard for the police to be aware of every law on the books. Sometimes
you have to be prepared to quote and/or show them the law in order to get
them to act. For example, some years ago the newspaper sent reporters out
to various police stations and asked for their daily arrest records,(or
something like that), which any person has the right to see, a few handed
them over no questions asked. But most, because they had never been asked
before had no idea that they were required by law to show them. The rest
finally allowed the reporter to view them but only after they contacted a
lawyer to learn that they had to.
-------------------------------

This can be as simple as a traffic stop, but
nonetheless is going to require another event for action. Just so you
know, this "other event" could be the criminal turning him/herself in,
so you may want to see if a bench warrant has been issued and, if so,
inform your ex that "they are looking for her." A semi-responsible
person with a child will turn themselves in if only to avoid the
necessity of bail/a night in jail so as they can make sure the state
never gets their child.

See above.

4. Beware. Taking the child out of state temporarily, causing one
missed visitation, may likely be laughed out of court, criminally and
civilly.
--------------------------
And this is a sad comment on how women get away with too much. A woman who,
without good reason, causes a missed visitation should be required to answer
for it. A woman who has a pattern of denying visitation should lose custody
of the kids because it's obvious she has no regard for the courts, or the
best interest of the kids.

~AZ~



At least in Mich, moving a child across state lines and violating a
custody/visitation order is a FELONY, punishable by over one year in
jail.
Felonies are NOT laughed out of court.

I never said a felony would be laughed out of court. I don't recall
if the California statute was a felony. And the mother did not MOVE a
child across state lines in the sense the courts may mean it.


It depends on the third parties involved. You may build a
better case tape recording your ex telling you how frivolously she
discounts your child's need for you. Documenting missed vistations
carefully, to include the reason given. The civil courts may view an
arrest of an ex-spouse as a feeble-hearted attempt to change custody
without them (the civil court) and will be angered in the process.

You obviously are not an attorney because the advise you give is so ****
poor.

I never said I was an attorney. You are welcome to your opinion.



On Tue, 25 May 2004 03:29:26 GMT, JR wrote:

Hi Barry,

I've actually got the same "fixed schedule" order that you have (1-3-5
weekends). That's why I'm asking about criminal prosecution under Cal
PC 728.5. There's really no way our order can be mis-interpreted.
The
date, time, place, of our custody transfers are clearly stated in the
order (it took a LONG time to get the order to that point). Despite
this, mom repeatedly thumbs her nose at me and the court to the
detriment of an innocent little girl (and me, her father).

Yes, I filed the OSC Contempt papers this morning and they should be
served on Mom by Tuesday or Wednesday. The arraignment is set for
July
6th. But like I said, Civil Contempt was unsuccessful before, so I'm
looking for a way to convince law enforcement to, er, enforce the
law!!

When I discovered Cal Penal Code 278.5 via the post I pasted below, I
thought, "THIS IS IT! THERE IS A LAW SHE IS BREAKING!" But now that
I've filed the report, I'm kind of stalled.

Trouble is I know that my police report was taken not because the
police
intended to do a real investigation, but only to get me out of the
substation; to go away. I want to know how to get the police to
follow
up, verify that the orders are valid, locate and question the
criminal,
and arrest her upon verifying that statute 278.5 was violated.

I was hoping this "two-pronged" approach (civil contempt + criminal
case) might yield better results. I'm hopeful about the contempt, but
I
want to keep the criminal side moving.

There was another guy in the substation reporting a stolen car while I
was trying to get my stolen child report filed. The officer seemed so
much more willing to take the stolen car report, I guess because he
understood the crime. But what if the guy who had his car stolen on
Friday found out that the thief had returned the car, slightly
damaged,
on Monday? Wouldn't it still be a crime? My daughter will never get
this weekend with her dad back. The message sent to her by her mom,
that it's ok to ignore dad and take the law into your own hands, is
emotionally and psychologically damaging to her! Ok, enough of my
tortured kid=car metaphor, but a kid is more important than a car, yet
I
can't get the police to act on this!

Anyway, thanks a lot for responding Barry. The initial lack of
responses was beginning to make me doubt myself. But I'm beginning to
see that I'm in uncharted territory here.

Jay R.

wrote:
In alt.child-support JR wrote:
: Hello,

: How do I prosecute my ex-girlfriend for Custodial Interference in
: California? I've taken some steps and have a criminal case number
: assigned, but what are the next steps I need to take to get her
charged?
: I believe that if she left the state (and I believe she did),
this
is
: a felony.

I've been through this situation a lot.

The problem is the lack of clarity with the custody order regarding
when parenting time will occur. I told our custody mediator my
problems
with Custodial Interference. He wrote the custody order using
"fixed
schedule parenting time.". It's clearly stated that I'll have him
on
the first, third, and fifth (if there is a fifth) weekend of the
month
plus Thursday afternoons (between defined hours at a minimum) on
even
weeks. This is better than "every other weekend" because one can
always
look at a calendar and see if it's the first, third or fifth weekend
vs. quibbling over "what was an every other week". Additionally,
the
order states that **any deviation of the schedule has to be mutually
agreed upon in writing***. Also, if the child is "ill", a doctor's
note
is required to delay parenting time (she played that game also).

You need to pursue a contempt citation. However, the result would
probably
be the same for you as last time (not clear as a result of swapping
days,
etc.).

I would advise you to file a motion to revise your custody order.
Make
it
clear which days of the week you'll be with your child and what
times.
Make it clear that any deviation HAS to be in writing and signed by
both
of you or an email must be sent and a reply given by you defining
the
change in parenting time. If you can afford it, get legal help from
an
attorney to draft the Custody Order modification. Also, I'll note
that
I've used the "dial a lawyer" attorneys available from www.nolo.com
and
have been pleased with their service and the low cost.

Good luck. Get a clear custody order and stick to it. No
deviations
that
are outside of the order. If you do, that demonstrates you are
"flexible"
and you can now see that your situation can be taken advantage of by
the ex.

barry

"Beverly" wrote in message
...
I am always willing to stand corrected... better yet if the correcting
party is right. I'm not so certain you are right, however. Further
discussion in line:

snip
3. Many crimes are not a crime which causes active investigation.
The police may have had what is called a "bench warrant" issued and,
basically, in order to be arrested, the criminal must be caught doing
something else.

Typical for civil actions, not criminal

I don't think civil actions have any kind of warrant at all.

There is a bench warrant in my city for someone whom threated my life
once. I suppose it wouldn't have been a bench warrant if he actually
tried (sure hope not). Fact is... I understood why the police would
do only that. A threat, while illegal, was not enough to extradite
and the man fled the state. Doesn't matter to me. I only wanted it
on record in case something happened to me.
--------------------------
Maybe it was best for him to 'have it on record'.

It's hard for the police to be aware of every law on the books. Sometimes
you have to be prepared to quote and/or show them the law in order to get
them to act. For example, some years ago the newspaper sent reporters out
to various police stations and asked for their daily arrest records,(or
something like that), which any person has the right to see, a few handed
them over no questions asked. But most, because they had never been asked
before had no idea that they were required by law to show them. The rest
finally allowed the reporter to view them but only after they contacted a
lawyer to learn that they had to.
-------------------------------

This can be as simple as a traffic stop, but
nonetheless is going to require another event for action. Just so you
know, this "other event" could be the criminal turning him/herself in,
so you may want to see if a bench warrant has been issued and, if so,
inform your ex that "they are looking for her." A semi-responsible
person with a child will turn themselves in if only to avoid the
necessity of bail/a night in jail so as they can make sure the state
never gets their child.

See above.

4. Beware. Taking the child out of state temporarily, causing one
missed visitation, may likely be laughed out of court, criminally and
civilly.
--------------------------
And this is a sad comment on how women get away with too much. A woman who,
without good reason, causes a missed visitation should be required to answer
for it. A woman who has a pattern of denying visitation should lose custody
of the kids because it's obvious she has no regard for the courts, or the
best interest of the kids.

~AZ~



At least in Mich, moving a child across state lines and violating a
custody/visitation order is a FELONY, punishable by over one year in
jail.
Felonies are NOT laughed out of court.

I never said a felony would be laughed out of court. I don't recall
if the California statute was a felony. And the mother did not MOVE a
child across state lines in the sense the courts may mean it.


It depends on the third parties involved. You may build a
better case tape recording your ex telling you how frivolously she
discounts your child's need for you. Documenting missed vistations
carefully, to include the reason given. The civil courts may view an
arrest of an ex-spouse as a feeble-hearted attempt to change custody
without them (the civil court) and will be angered in the process.

You obviously are not an attorney because the advise you give is so ****
poor.

I never said I was an attorney. You are welcome to your opinion.



On Tue, 25 May 2004 03:29:26 GMT, JR wrote:

Hi Barry,

I've actually got the same "fixed schedule" order that you have (1-3-5
weekends). That's why I'm asking about criminal prosecution under Cal
PC 728.5. There's really no way our order can be mis-interpreted.
The
date, time, place, of our custody transfers are clearly stated in the
order (it took a LONG time to get the order to that point). Despite
this, mom repeatedly thumbs her nose at me and the court to the
detriment of an innocent little girl (and me, her father).

Yes, I filed the OSC Contempt papers this morning and they should be
served on Mom by Tuesday or Wednesday. The arraignment is set for
July
6th. But like I said, Civil Contempt was unsuccessful before, so I'm
looking for a way to convince law enforcement to, er, enforce the
law!!

When I discovered Cal Penal Code 278.5 via the post I pasted below, I
thought, "THIS IS IT! THERE IS A LAW SHE IS BREAKING!" But now that
I've filed the report, I'm kind of stalled.

Trouble is I know that my police report was taken not because the
police
intended to do a real investigation, but only to get me out of the
substation; to go away. I want to know how to get the police to
follow
up, verify that the orders are valid, locate and question the
criminal,
and arrest her upon verifying that statute 278.5 was violated.

I was hoping this "two-pronged" approach (civil contempt + criminal
case) might yield better results. I'm hopeful about the contempt, but
I
want to keep the criminal side moving.

There was another guy in the substation reporting a stolen car while I
was trying to get my stolen child report filed. The officer seemed so
much more willing to take the stolen car report, I guess because he
understood the crime. But what if the guy who had his car stolen on
Friday found out that the thief had returned the car, slightly
damaged,
on Monday? Wouldn't it still be a crime? My daughter will never get
this weekend with her dad back. The message sent to her by her mom,
that it's ok to ignore dad and take the law into your own hands, is
emotionally and psychologically damaging to her! Ok, enough of my
tortured kid=car metaphor, but a kid is more important than a car, yet
I
can't get the police to act on this!

Anyway, thanks a lot for responding Barry. The initial lack of
responses was beginning to make me doubt myself. But I'm beginning to
see that I'm in uncharted territory here.

Jay R.

wrote:
In alt.child-support JR wrote:
: Hello,

: How do I prosecute my ex-girlfriend for Custodial Interference in
: California? I've taken some steps and have a criminal case number
: assigned, but what are the next steps I need to take to get her
charged?
: I believe that if she left the state (and I believe she did),
this
is
: a felony.

I've been through this situation a lot.

The problem is the lack of clarity with the custody order regarding
when parenting time will occur. I told our custody mediator my
problems
with Custodial Interference. He wrote the custody order using
"fixed
schedule parenting time.". It's clearly stated that I'll have him
on
the first, third, and fifth (if there is a fifth) weekend of the
month
plus Thursday afternoons (between defined hours at a minimum) on
even
weeks. This is better than "every other weekend" because one can
always
look at a calendar and see if it's the first, third or fifth weekend
vs. quibbling over "what was an every other week". Additionally,
the
order states that **any deviation of the schedule has to be mutually
agreed upon in writing***. Also, if the child is "ill", a doctor's
note
is required to delay parenting time (she played that game also).

You need to pursue a contempt citation. However, the result would
probably
be the same for you as last time (not clear as a result of swapping
days,
etc.).

I would advise you to file a motion to revise your custody order.
Make
it
clear which days of the week you'll be with your child and what
times.
Make it clear that any deviation HAS to be in writing and signed by
both
of you or an email must be sent and a reply given by you defining
the
change in parenting time. If you can afford it, get legal help from
an
attorney to draft the Custody Order modification. Also, I'll note
that
I've used the "dial a lawyer" attorneys available from www.nolo.com
and
have been pleased with their service and the low cost.

Good luck. Get a clear custody order and stick to it. No
deviations
that
are outside of the order. If you do, that demonstrates you are
"flexible"
and you can now see that your situation can be taken advantage of by
the ex.

barry

"Beverly" wrote in message
...
I am always willing to stand corrected... better yet if the correcting
party is right. I'm not so certain you are right, however. Further
discussion in line:

On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:54:23 -0400, "P.Fritz"
wrote:


"Beverly" wrote in message
.. .
A few things come to mind as I follow this thread.

1. There are many laws on the books in every state that are never
prosecuted. Some are antiquated (i.e. having to do with horse and
buggy days) and some have alternative methods that have come about in
later law for resolution. Yours sounds like the latter. Police
seldom move on things that can be handled without police
intervention.

2. Even though you and your ex do not share a domicile, the case is
domestic.

Not if she violated a criminal law.

I believe that things such as "domestic violence" is a situation in
which a criminal law is violated; yet, it is still domestic. I don't
believe the two are mutually exclusive.

Domestic violence is still a criminal law and is prosecuted in a criminal
court not a civil/family court.


Many officers are loathe to get involved in domestic
disputes, and don't as a policy unless a life is in danger, as they
can be more hairy than other crimes.

Officers may be loathe to do a lot of things, but are required to
process a
criminal complaint.

"Process" means what, exactly? Sounds like the officer "processed"
the paperwork even if he didn't want to. Once the paperwork was done,
I'll even bet it was "processed" again... perhaps into a bench
warrant... maybe into the "circular file." To what extent do you
believe all reported crimes are processed?

As in passed to the prosecuting attorney. The prosecutor or "DA" will
not have to do anything unless the criminal complaint has be filed with the
police. A warrant will not be issues unless the prosecutor presents the
complaint to a judge. Each step MUST be taken by the complaintant or no
misconduct complaint can be taken against any of the above parties.



3. Many crimes are not a crime which causes active investigation.
The police may have had what is called a "bench warrant" issued and,
basically, in order to be arrested, the criminal must be caught doing
something else.

Typical for civil actions, not criminal

I don't think civil actions have any kind of warrant at all.

Cripes, what do you think a warrant for not paying CS is.


There is a bench warrant in my city for someone whom threated my life
once. I suppose it wouldn't have been a bench warrant if he actually
tried (sure hope not). Fact is... I understood why the police would
do only that. A threat, while illegal, was not enough to extradite
and the man fled the state. Doesn't matter to me. I only wanted it
on record in case something happened to me.

This can be as simple as a traffic stop, but
nonetheless is going to require another event for action. Just so
you
know, this "other event" could be the criminal turning him/herself
in,
so you may want to see if a bench warrant has been issued and, if so,
inform your ex that "they are looking for her." A semi-responsible
person with a child will turn themselves in if only to avoid the
necessity of bail/a night in jail so as they can make sure the state
never gets their child.

See above.

4. Beware. Taking the child out of state temporarily, causing one
missed visitation, may likely be laughed out of court, criminally and
civilly.

At least in Mich, moving a child across state lines and violating a
custody/visitation order is a FELONY, punishable by over one year in
jail.
Felonies are NOT laughed out of court.

I never said a felony would be laughed out of court. I don't recall
if the California statute was a felony. And the mother did not MOVE a
child across state lines in the sense the courts may mean it.

Courts don't 'mean' anything. It is a matter of how the law is written in
the legislature. Taking (moving) a child across state lines while denying a
specified parenting time......it has nothing to do with establishing
residence. Geesh.



It depends on the third parties involved. You may build a
better case tape recording your ex telling you how frivolously she
discounts your child's need for you. Documenting missed vistations
carefully, to include the reason given. The civil courts may view an
arrest of an ex-spouse as a feeble-hearted attempt to change custody
without them (the civil court) and will be angered in the process.

You obviously are not an attorney because the advise you give is so
****
poor.

I never said I was an attorney. You are welcome to your opinion.

Telling someone to tape phone calls without nowing the state laws is
outrright negligent.




On Tue, 25 May 2004 03:29:26 GMT, JR wrote:

Hi Barry,

I've actually got the same "fixed schedule" order that you have
(1-3-5
weekends). That's why I'm asking about criminal prosecution under
Cal
PC 728.5. There's really no way our order can be mis-interpreted.
The
date, time, place, of our custody transfers are clearly stated in
the
order (it took a LONG time to get the order to that point). Despite
this, mom repeatedly thumbs her nose at me and the court to the
detriment of an innocent little girl (and me, her father).

Yes, I filed the OSC Contempt papers this morning and they should be
served on Mom by Tuesday or Wednesday. The arraignment is set for
July
6th. But like I said, Civil Contempt was unsuccessful before, so
I'm
looking for a way to convince law enforcement to, er, enforce the
law!!

When I discovered Cal Penal Code 278.5 via the post I pasted below,
I
thought, "THIS IS IT! THERE IS A LAW SHE IS BREAKING!" But now that
I've filed the report, I'm kind of stalled.

Trouble is I know that my police report was taken not because the
police
intended to do a real investigation, but only to get me out of the
substation; to go away. I want to know how to get the police to
follow
up, verify that the orders are valid, locate and question the
criminal,
and arrest her upon verifying that statute 278.5 was violated.

I was hoping this "two-pronged" approach (civil contempt + criminal
case) might yield better results. I'm hopeful about the contempt,
but I
want to keep the criminal side moving.

There was another guy in the substation reporting a stolen car while
I
was trying to get my stolen child report filed. The officer seemed
so
much more willing to take the stolen car report, I guess because he
understood the crime. But what if the guy who had his car stolen on
Friday found out that the thief had returned the car, slightly
damaged,
on Monday? Wouldn't it still be a crime? My daughter will never
get
this weekend with her dad back. The message sent to her by her mom,
that it's ok to ignore dad and take the law into your own hands, is
emotionally and psychologically damaging to her! Ok, enough of my
tortured kid=car metaphor, but a kid is more important than a car,
yet I
can't get the police to act on this!

Anyway, thanks a lot for responding Barry. The initial lack of
responses was beginning to make me doubt myself. But I'm beginning
to
see that I'm in uncharted territory here.

Jay R.

wrote:
In alt.child-support JR wrote:
: Hello,

: How do I prosecute my ex-girlfriend for Custodial Interference
in
: California? I've taken some steps and have a criminal case
number
: assigned, but what are the next steps I need to take to get her
charged?
: I believe that if she left the state (and I believe she did),
this
is
: a felony.

I've been through this situation a lot.

The problem is the lack of clarity with the custody order
regarding
when parenting time will occur. I told our custody mediator my
problems
with Custodial Interference. He wrote the custody order using
"fixed
schedule parenting time.". It's clearly stated that I'll have him
on
the first, third, and fifth (if there is a fifth) weekend of the
month
plus Thursday afternoons (between defined hours at a minimum) on
even
weeks. This is better than "every other weekend" because one can
always
look at a calendar and see if it's the first, third or fifth
weekend
vs. quibbling over "what was an every other week". Additionally,
the
order states that **any deviation of the schedule has to be
mutually
agreed upon in writing***. Also, if the child is "ill", a
doctor's
note
is required to delay parenting time (she played that game also).

You need to pursue a contempt citation. However, the result would
probably
be the same for you as last time (not clear as a result of
swapping
days,
etc.).

I would advise you to file a motion to revise your custody order.
Make
it
clear which days of the week you'll be with your child and what
times.
Make it clear that any deviation HAS to be in writing and signed
by
both
of you or an email must be sent and a reply given by you defining
the
change in parenting time. If you can afford it, get legal help
from an
attorney to draft the Custody Order modification. Also, I'll note
that
I've used the "dial a lawyer" attorneys available from
www.nolo.com and
have been pleased with their service and the low cost.

Good luck. Get a clear custody order and stick to it. No
deviations
that
are outside of the order. If you do, that demonstrates you are
"flexible"
and you can now see that your situation can be taken advantage of
by
the ex.

barry

"Beverly" wrote in message
...
I am always willing to stand corrected... better yet if the correcting
party is right. I'm not so certain you are right, however. Further
discussion in line:

On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:54:23 -0400, "P.Fritz"
wrote:


"Beverly" wrote in message
.. .
A few things come to mind as I follow this thread.

1. There are many laws on the books in every state that are never
prosecuted. Some are antiquated (i.e. having to do with horse and
buggy days) and some have alternative methods that have come about in
later law for resolution. Yours sounds like the latter. Police
seldom move on things that can be handled without police
intervention.

2. Even though you and your ex do not share a domicile, the case is
domestic.

Not if she violated a criminal law.

I believe that things such as "domestic violence" is a situation in
which a criminal law is violated; yet, it is still domestic. I don't
believe the two are mutually exclusive.

Domestic violence is still a criminal law and is prosecuted in a criminal
court not a civil/family court.


Many officers are loathe to get involved in domestic
disputes, and don't as a policy unless a life is in danger, as they
can be more hairy than other crimes.

Officers may be loathe to do a lot of things, but are required to
process a
criminal complaint.

"Process" means what, exactly? Sounds like the officer "processed"
the paperwork even if he didn't want to. Once the paperwork was done,
I'll even bet it was "processed" again... perhaps into a bench
warrant... maybe into the "circular file." To what extent do you
believe all reported crimes are processed?

As in passed to the prosecuting attorney. The prosecutor or "DA" will
not have to do anything unless the criminal complaint has be filed with the
police. A warrant will not be issues unless the prosecutor presents the
complaint to a judge. Each step MUST be taken by the complaintant or no
misconduct complaint can be taken against any of the above parties.



3. Many crimes are not a crime which causes active investigation.
The police may have had what is called a "bench warrant" issued and,
basically, in order to be arrested, the criminal must be caught doing
something else.

Typical for civil actions, not criminal

I don't think civil actions have any kind of warrant at all.

Cripes, what do you think a warrant for not paying CS is.


There is a bench warrant in my city for someone whom threated my life
once. I suppose it wouldn't have been a bench warrant if he actually
tried (sure hope not). Fact is... I understood why the police would
do only that. A threat, while illegal, was not enough to extradite
and the man fled the state. Doesn't matter to me. I only wanted it
on record in case something happened to me.

This can be as simple as a traffic stop, but
nonetheless is going to require another event for action. Just so
you
know, this "other event" could be the criminal turning him/herself
in,
so you may want to see if a bench warrant has been issued and, if so,
inform your ex that "they are looking for her." A semi-responsible
person with a child will turn themselves in if only to avoid the
necessity of bail/a night in jail so as they can make sure the state
never gets their child.

See above.

4. Beware. Taking the child out of state temporarily, causing one
missed visitation, may likely be laughed out of court, criminally and
civilly.

At least in Mich, moving a child across state lines and violating a
custody/visitation order is a FELONY, punishable by over one year in
jail.
Felonies are NOT laughed out of court.

I never said a felony would be laughed out of court. I don't recall
if the California statute was a felony. And the mother did not MOVE a
child across state lines in the sense the courts may mean it.

Courts don't 'mean' anything. It is a matter of how the law is written in
the legislature. Taking (moving) a child across state lines while denying a
specified parenting time......it has nothing to do with establishing
residence. Geesh.



It depends on the third parties involved. You may build a
better case tape recording your ex telling you how frivolously she
discounts your child's need for you. Documenting missed vistations
carefully, to include the reason given. The civil courts may view an
arrest of an ex-spouse as a feeble-hearted attempt to change custody
without them (the civil court) and will be angered in the process.

You obviously are not an attorney because the advise you give is so
****
poor.

I never said I was an attorney. You are welcome to your opinion.

Telling someone to tape phone calls without nowing the state laws is
outrright negligent.




On Tue, 25 May 2004 03:29:26 GMT, JR wrote:

Hi Barry,

I've actually got the same "fixed schedule" order that you have
(1-3-5
weekends). That's why I'm asking about criminal prosecution under
Cal
PC 728.5. There's really no way our order can be mis-interpreted.
The
date, time, place, of our custody transfers are clearly stated in
the
order (it took a LONG time to get the order to that point). Despite
this, mom repeatedly thumbs her nose at me and the court to the
detriment of an innocent little girl (and me, her father).

Yes, I filed the OSC Contempt papers this morning and they should be
served on Mom by Tuesday or Wednesday. The arraignment is set for
July
6th. But like I said, Civil Contempt was unsuccessful before, so
I'm
looking for a way to convince law enforcement to, er, enforce the
law!!

When I discovered Cal Penal Code 278.5 via the post I pasted below,
I
thought, "THIS IS IT! THERE IS A LAW SHE IS BREAKING!" But now that
I've filed the report, I'm kind of stalled.

Trouble is I know that my police report was taken not because the
police
intended to do a real investigation, but only to get me out of the
substation; to go away. I want to know how to get the police to
follow
up, verify that the orders are valid, locate and question the
criminal,
and arrest her upon verifying that statute 278.5 was violated.

I was hoping this "two-pronged" approach (civil contempt + criminal
case) might yield better results. I'm hopeful about the contempt,
but I
want to keep the criminal side moving.

There was another guy in the substation reporting a stolen car while
I
was trying to get my stolen child report filed. The officer seemed
so
much more willing to take the stolen car report, I guess because he
understood the crime. But what if the guy who had his car stolen on
Friday found out that the thief had returned the car, slightly
damaged,
on Monday? Wouldn't it still be a crime? My daughter will never
get
this weekend with her dad back. The message sent to her by her mom,
that it's ok to ignore dad and take the law into your own hands, is
emotionally and psychologically damaging to her! Ok, enough of my
tortured kid=car metaphor, but a kid is more important than a car,
yet I
can't get the police to act on this!

Anyway, thanks a lot for responding Barry. The initial lack of
responses was beginning to make me doubt myself. But I'm beginning
to
see that I'm in uncharted territory here.

Jay R.

wrote:
In alt.child-support JR wrote:
: Hello,

: How do I prosecute my ex-girlfriend for Custodial Interference
in
: California? I've taken some steps and have a criminal case
number
: assigned, but what are the next steps I need to take to get her
charged?
: I believe that if she left the state (and I believe she did),
this
is
: a felony.

I've been through this situation a lot.

The problem is the lack of clarity with the custody order
regarding
when parenting time will occur. I told our custody mediator my
problems
with Custodial Interference. He wrote the custody order using
"fixed
schedule parenting time.". It's clearly stated that I'll have him
on
the first, third, and fifth (if there is a fifth) weekend of the
month
plus Thursday afternoons (between defined hours at a minimum) on
even
weeks. This is better than "every other weekend" because one can
always
look at a calendar and see if it's the first, third or fifth
weekend
vs. quibbling over "what was an every other week". Additionally,
the
order states that **any deviation of the schedule has to be
mutually
agreed upon in writing***. Also, if the child is "ill", a
doctor's
note
is required to delay parenting time (she played that game also).

You need to pursue a contempt citation. However, the result would
probably
be the same for you as last time (not clear as a result of
swapping
days,
etc.).

I would advise you to file a motion to revise your custody order.
Make
it
clear which days of the week you'll be with your child and what
times.
Make it clear that any deviation HAS to be in writing and signed
by
both
of you or an email must be sent and a reply given by you defining
the
change in parenting time. If you can afford it, get legal help
from an
attorney to draft the Custody Order modification. Also, I'll note
that
I've used the "dial a lawyer" attorneys available from
www.nolo.com and
have been pleased with their service and the low cost.

Good luck. Get a clear custody order and stick to it. No
deviations
that
are outside of the order. If you do, that demonstrates you are
"flexible"
and you can now see that your situation can be taken advantage of
by
the ex.

barry

"Beverly" wrote in message
...
I am always willing to stand corrected... better yet if the correcting
party is right. I'm not so certain you are right, however. Further
discussion in line:

On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:54:23 -0400, "P.Fritz"
wrote:


"Beverly" wrote in message
.. .
A few things come to mind as I follow this thread.

1. There are many laws on the books in every state that are never
prosecuted. Some are antiquated (i.e. having to do with horse and
buggy days) and some have alternative methods that have come about in
later law for resolution. Yours sounds like the latter. Police
seldom move on things that can be handled without police
intervention.

2. Even though you and your ex do not share a domicile, the case is
domestic.

Not if she violated a criminal law.

I believe that things such as "domestic violence" is a situation in
which a criminal law is violated; yet, it is still domestic. I don't
believe the two are mutually exclusive.

Domestic violence is still a criminal law and is prosecuted in a criminal
court not a civil/family court.


Many officers are loathe to get involved in domestic
disputes, and don't as a policy unless a life is in danger, as they
can be more hairy than other crimes.

Officers may be loathe to do a lot of things, but are required to
process a
criminal complaint.

"Process" means what, exactly? Sounds like the officer "processed"
the paperwork even if he didn't want to. Once the paperwork was done,
I'll even bet it was "processed" again... perhaps into a bench
warrant... maybe into the "circular file." To what extent do you
believe all reported crimes are processed?

As in passed to the prosecuting attorney. The prosecutor or "DA" will
not have to do anything unless the criminal complaint has be filed with the
police. A warrant will not be issues unless the prosecutor presents the
complaint to a judge. Each step MUST be taken by the complaintant or no
misconduct complaint can be taken against any of the above parties.



3. Many crimes are not a crime which causes active investigation.
The police may have had what is called a "bench warrant" issued and,
basically, in order to be arrested, the criminal must be caught doing
something else.

Typical for civil actions, not criminal

I don't think civil actions have any kind of warrant at all.

Cripes, what do you think a warrant for not paying CS is.


There is a bench warrant in my city for someone whom threated my life
once. I suppose it wouldn't have been a bench warrant if he actually
tried (sure hope not). Fact is... I understood why the police would
do only that. A threat, while illegal, was not enough to extradite
and the man fled the state. Doesn't matter to me. I only wanted it
on record in case something happened to me.

This can be as simple as a traffic stop, but
nonetheless is going to require another event for action. Just so
you
know, this "other event" could be the criminal turning him/herself
in,
so you may want to see if a bench warrant has been issued and, if so,
inform your ex that "they are looking for her." A semi-responsible
person with a child will turn themselves in if only to avoid the
necessity of bail/a night in jail so as they can make sure the state
never gets their child.

See above.

4. Beware. Taking the child out of state temporarily, causing one
missed visitation, may likely be laughed out of court, criminally and
civilly.

At least in Mich, moving a child across state lines and violating a
custody/visitation order is a FELONY, punishable by over one year in
jail.
Felonies are NOT laughed out of court.

I never said a felony would be laughed out of court. I don't recall
if the California statute was a felony. And the mother did not MOVE a
child across state lines in the sense the courts may mean it.

Courts don't 'mean' anything. It is a matter of how the law is written in
the legislature. Taking (moving) a child across state lines while denying a
specified parenting time......it has nothing to do with establishing
residence. Geesh.



It depends on the third parties involved. You may build a
better case tape recording your ex telling you how frivolously she
discounts your child's need for you. Documenting missed vistations
carefully, to include the reason given. The civil courts may view an
arrest of an ex-spouse as a feeble-hearted attempt to change custody
without them (the civil court) and will be angered in the process.

You obviously are not an attorney because the advise you give is so
****
poor.

I never said I was an attorney. You are welcome to your opinion.

Telling someone to tape phone calls without nowing the state laws is
outrright negligent.




On Tue, 25 May 2004 03:29:26 GMT, JR wrote:

Hi Barry,

I've actually got the same "fixed schedule" order that you have
(1-3-5
weekends). That's why I'm asking about criminal prosecution under
Cal
PC 728.5. There's really no way our order can be mis-interpreted.
The
date, time, place, of our custody transfers are clearly stated in
the
order (it took a LONG time to get the order to that point). Despite
this, mom repeatedly thumbs her nose at me and the court to the
detriment of an innocent little girl (and me, her father).

Yes, I filed the OSC Contempt papers this morning and they should be
served on Mom by Tuesday or Wednesday. The arraignment is set for
July
6th. But like I said, Civil Contempt was unsuccessful before, so
I'm
looking for a way to convince law enforcement to, er, enforce the
law!!

When I discovered Cal Penal Code 278.5 via the post I pasted below,
I
thought, "THIS IS IT! THERE IS A LAW SHE IS BREAKING!" But now that
I've filed the report, I'm kind of stalled.

Trouble is I know that my police report was taken not because the
police
intended to do a real investigation, but only to get me out of the
substation; to go away. I want to know how to get the police to
follow
up, verify that the orders are valid, locate and question the
criminal,
and arrest her upon verifying that statute 278.5 was violated.

I was hoping this "two-pronged" approach (civil contempt + criminal
case) might yield better results. I'm hopeful about the contempt,
but I
want to keep the criminal side moving.

There was another guy in the substation reporting a stolen car while
I
was trying to get my stolen child report filed. The officer seemed
so
much more willing to take the stolen car report, I guess because he
understood the crime. But what if the guy who had his car stolen on
Friday found out that the thief had returned the car, slightly
damaged,
on Monday? Wouldn't it still be a crime? My daughter will never
get
this weekend with her dad back. The message sent to her by her mom,
that it's ok to ignore dad and take the law into your own hands, is
emotionally and psychologically damaging to her! Ok, enough of my
tortured kid=car metaphor, but a kid is more important than a car,
yet I
can't get the police to act on this!

Anyway, thanks a lot for responding Barry. The initial lack of
responses was beginning to make me doubt myself. But I'm beginning
to
see that I'm in uncharted territory here.

Jay R.

wrote:
In alt.child-support JR wrote:
: Hello,

: How do I prosecute my ex-girlfriend for Custodial Interference
in
: California? I've taken some steps and have a criminal case
number
: assigned, but what are the next steps I need to take to get her
charged?
: I believe that if she left the state (and I believe she did),
this
is
: a felony.

I've been through this situation a lot.

The problem is the lack of clarity with the custody order
regarding
when parenting time will occur. I told our custody mediator my
problems
with Custodial Interference. He wrote the custody order using
"fixed
schedule parenting time.". It's clearly stated that I'll have him
on
the first, third, and fifth (if there is a fifth) weekend of the
month
plus Thursday afternoons (between defined hours at a minimum) on
even
weeks. This is better than "every other weekend" because one can
always
look at a calendar and see if it's the first, third or fifth
weekend
vs. quibbling over "what was an every other week". Additionally,
the
order states that **any deviation of the schedule has to be
mutually
agreed upon in writing***. Also, if the child is "ill", a
doctor's
note
is required to delay parenting time (she played that game also).

You need to pursue a contempt citation. However, the result would
probably
be the same for you as last time (not clear as a result of
swapping
days,
etc.).

I would advise you to file a motion to revise your custody order.
Make
it
clear which days of the week you'll be with your child and what
times.
Make it clear that any deviation HAS to be in writing and signed
by
both
of you or an email must be sent and a reply given by you defining
the
change in parenting time. If you can afford it, get legal help
from an
attorney to draft the Custody Order modification. Also, I'll note
that
I've used the "dial a lawyer" attorneys available from
www.nolo.com and
have been pleased with their service and the low cost.

Good luck. Get a clear custody order and stick to it. No
deviations
that
are outside of the order. If you do, that demonstrates you are
"flexible"
and you can now see that your situation can be taken advantage of
by
the ex.

barry

"JayR" wrote in message
om...

Not many will see it that way, if any. If they do, too bad! The legal
remedies are there for a reason.

Right, that's my thinking. What's bizarre is that these laws are on
the books, you'd think for a reason, but it's proving nearly
impossible to get them enforced or violations of them investigated.

You just have to know how, or have a lawyer who knows how and is willing
to rock the boat.

Yes, she's wrong in what she's doing - however, you need to make sure
you don't
put yourself in the position of being 'more' wrong - it won't help
your
case.

How does availing yourself of the only legal remedies available make
one
not just wrong, but "MORE WRONG?"

Agreed, it shouldn't. But Beverly offers a practical view. As my
attorney has pointed out to me, family court is a big PR contest. It
helps to be "right", but you need to present your case in such a way
that the judge wants you to be right.

I will say this, with almost 30 years experience with the system. Judges
generally do NOT resent well placed arguments. What they DO resent is
bull****ters who WASTE THEIR TIME....... The issue is respect and
competence. The judge will respect a well reasoned and strong argument. The
judge will NOT respect a bull**** meandering argument that is well off on
the law. Which is why this pro-se stuff is such a BAD idea. It costs to hunt
up a really good strong lawyer, there are hundreds of thousands of **** poor
lawyers.

Back in the 70's the then Chief Justice of the Supreme Court gave an
address to the American Bar Association convention and erupted a fire storm
when he said that 95% of the lawyers who appeared in front of the Supreme
Court (the crem d' la crem of the legal profession) were "TOTALLY
INCOMPETENT!" you begin to see the problem.

The FACT is that you have to look at your situation. If your lawyer is
an idiot, get out the Vaseline. (That applies to women as well as men.) The
wisest try to have as little involvement of lawyers as possible. It is
hilarious to me, sitting on the sidelines, watching a woman get a nasty
lawyer to fight over $20,000 equity in a house and wind up with a $40,000
legal bill. The lawyers get the house and you get bills on top of it. Oh
yeah those fights are good for business. MEDIATE!
Work it out between yourselves.

"JayR" wrote in message
om...

Not many will see it that way, if any. If they do, too bad! The legal
remedies are there for a reason.

Right, that's my thinking. What's bizarre is that these laws are on
the books, you'd think for a reason, but it's proving nearly
impossible to get them enforced or violations of them investigated.

You just have to know how, or have a lawyer who knows how and is willing
to rock the boat.

Yes, she's wrong in what she's doing - however, you need to make sure
you don't
put yourself in the position of being 'more' wrong - it won't help
your
case.

How does availing yourself of the only legal remedies available make
one
not just wrong, but "MORE WRONG?"

Agreed, it shouldn't. But Beverly offers a practical view. As my
attorney has pointed out to me, family court is a big PR contest. It
helps to be "right", but you need to present your case in such a way
that the judge wants you to be right.

I will say this, with almost 30 years experience with the system. Judges
generally do NOT resent well placed arguments. What they DO resent is
bull****ters who WASTE THEIR TIME....... The issue is respect and
competence. The judge will respect a well reasoned and strong argument. The
judge will NOT respect a bull**** meandering argument that is well off on
the law. Which is why this pro-se stuff is such a BAD idea. It costs to hunt
up a really good strong lawyer, there are hundreds of thousands of **** poor
lawyers.

Back in the 70's the then Chief Justice of the Supreme Court gave an
address to the American Bar Association convention and erupted a fire storm
when he said that 95% of the lawyers who appeared in front of the Supreme
Court (the crem d' la crem of the legal profession) were "TOTALLY
INCOMPETENT!" you begin to see the problem.

The FACT is that you have to look at your situation. If your lawyer is
an idiot, get out the Vaseline. (That applies to women as well as men.) The
wisest try to have as little involvement of lawyers as possible. It is
hilarious to me, sitting on the sidelines, watching a woman get a nasty
lawyer to fight over $20,000 equity in a house and wind up with a $40,000
legal bill. The lawyers get the house and you get bills on top of it. Oh
yeah those fights are good for business. MEDIATE!
Work it out between yourselves.

"JayR" wrote in message
om...

Not many will see it that way, if any. If they do, too bad! The legal
remedies are there for a reason.

Right, that's my thinking. What's bizarre is that these laws are on
the books, you'd think for a reason, but it's proving nearly
impossible to get them enforced or violations of them investigated.

You just have to know how, or have a lawyer who knows how and is willing
to rock the boat.

Yes, she's wrong in what she's doing - however, you need to make sure
you don't
put yourself in the position of being 'more' wrong - it won't help
your
case.

How does availing yourself of the only legal remedies available make
one
not just wrong, but "MORE WRONG?"

Agreed, it shouldn't. But Beverly offers a practical view. As my
attorney has pointed out to me, family court is a big PR contest. It
helps to be "right", but you need to present your case in such a way
that the judge wants you to be right.

I will say this, with almost 30 years experience with the system. Judges
generally do NOT resent well placed arguments. What they DO resent is
bull****ters who WASTE THEIR TIME....... The issue is respect and
competence. The judge will respect a well reasoned and strong argument. The
judge will NOT respect a bull**** meandering argument that is well off on
the law. Which is why this pro-se stuff is such a BAD idea. It costs to hunt
up a really good strong lawyer, there are hundreds of thousands of **** poor
lawyers.

Back in the 70's the then Chief Justice of the Supreme Court gave an
address to the American Bar Association convention and erupted a fire storm
when he said that 95% of the lawyers who appeared in front of the Supreme
Court (the crem d' la crem of the legal profession) were "TOTALLY
INCOMPETENT!" you begin to see the problem.

The FACT is that you have to look at your situation. If your lawyer is
an idiot, get out the Vaseline. (That applies to women as well as men.) The
wisest try to have as little involvement of lawyers as possible. It is
hilarious to me, sitting on the sidelines, watching a woman get a nasty
lawyer to fight over $20,000 equity in a house and wind up with a $40,000
legal bill. The lawyers get the house and you get bills on top of it. Oh
yeah those fights are good for business. MEDIATE!
Work it out between yourselves.

"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
I found this post very interesting. But I would like to make a few
comments:

1. Most police do not to get involved in this type of problem because
child custody is a matter handled by a civil court. And intent in
creating a police agency is to deal with criminal matters. If
parents can not get along and follow the parenting agreement...it is a
civil matter that eventually gets sent back in front of the Family
Court.

Violating a custody order and moving a child across state lines is a
FELONY
in Mich.

And that's supposed to mean something in a practical manner?

I would be surprised if it were not a criminal staute in Ca. as
well.


2. Even if you can find an officer that will write up a rpt under
section 278.5...it will not go any where unless the D.A.'s office will
"issue" on it. Now we're in the realm of "Can I win this case, (Hell,
"Can I even get this in front of a judge") and is it worth my time to
try"? Most D.A.'s case loads are so full they only want to issue on a
case if they feel they have a chance of winning...else it is all just
a waste of time.

3. I believe the intent of 278.5 PC was to prosecute "Parental Child
Abduction". It was not intended to deal with a parent that plays the
"Johnny does not feel well enough to go with you today!" crap. It
was/is for the parent the takes the child (usually out of
county/state/country and permentantly tries to keep the child away.

Most such laws have a time period specified......over 24 hr, 48 hrs etc.


Before you think about asking a police officer to take a rpt for
"visitation interference" call your D.A.'s office and see if they
would issue on that type of case. If they won't, you are just wasting
your time talking with the officer. Remember it is not the officers
fault...if the DA's office will not "issue", the rpt is just wasted
paper. And believe me....with the divorce rate so high in the law
enforcement field, there are many police officers in the same boat.
They really can feel your pain...they just can't do anything about it.

You must have the officer file, because no complaint can be issued against
a
DA for refusing to prosecute. One of the tricks to successfully pursuing
such action is to have all the i's dotted and the t's crossed.



On Tue, 25 May 2004 07:22:55 -0500, Beverly
wrote:

A few things come to mind as I follow this thread.

1. There are many laws on the books in every state that are never
prosecuted. Some are antiquated (i.e. having to do with horse and
buggy days) and some have alternative methods that have come about in
later law for resolution. Yours sounds like the latter. Police
seldom move on things that can be handled without police intervention.

2. Even though you and your ex do not share a domicile, the case is
domestic. Many officers are loathe to get involved in domestic
disputes, and don't as a policy unless a life is in danger, as they
can be more hairy than other crimes.

3. Many crimes are not a crime which causes active investigation.
The police may have had what is called a "bench warrant" issued and,
basically, in order to be arrested, the criminal must be caught doing
something else. This can be as simple as a traffic stop, but
nonetheless is going to require another event for action. Just so you
know, this "other event" could be the criminal turning him/herself in,
so you may want to see if a bench warrant has been issued and, if so,
inform your ex that "they are looking for her." A semi-responsible
person with a child will turn themselves in if only to avoid the
necessity of bail/a night in jail so as they can make sure the state
never gets their child.

4. Beware. Taking the child out of state temporarily, causing one
missed visitation, may likely be laughed out of court, criminally and
civilly. It depends on the third parties involved. You may build a
better case tape recording your ex telling you how frivolously she
discounts your child's need for you. Documenting missed vistations
carefully, to include the reason given. The civil courts may view an
arrest of an ex-spouse as a feeble-hearted attempt to change custody
without them (the civil court) and will be angered in the process.

On Tue, 25 May 2004 03:29:26 GMT, JR wrote:

Hi Barry,

I've actually got the same "fixed schedule" order that you have (1-3-5
weekends). That's why I'm asking about criminal prosecution under Cal
PC 728.5. There's really no way our order can be mis-interpreted.
The
date, time, place, of our custody transfers are clearly stated in the
order (it took a LONG time to get the order to that point). Despite
this, mom repeatedly thumbs her nose at me and the court to the
detriment of an innocent little girl (and me, her father).

Yes, I filed the OSC Contempt papers this morning and they should be
served on Mom by Tuesday or Wednesday. The arraignment is set for
July
6th. But like I said, Civil Contempt was unsuccessful before, so I'm
looking for a way to convince law enforcement to, er, enforce the
law!!

When I discovered Cal Penal Code 278.5 via the post I pasted below, I
thought, "THIS IS IT! THERE IS A LAW SHE IS BREAKING!" But now that
I've filed the report, I'm kind of stalled.

Trouble is I know that my police report was taken not because the
police
intended to do a real investigation, but only to get me out of the
substation; to go away. I want to know how to get the police to
follow
up, verify that the orders are valid, locate and question the
criminal,
and arrest her upon verifying that statute 278.5 was violated.

I was hoping this "two-pronged" approach (civil contempt + criminal
case) might yield better results. I'm hopeful about the contempt, but
I
want to keep the criminal side moving.

There was another guy in the substation reporting a stolen car while I
was trying to get my stolen child report filed. The officer seemed so
much more willing to take the stolen car report, I guess because he
understood the crime. But what if the guy who had his car stolen on
Friday found out that the thief had returned the car, slightly
damaged,
on Monday? Wouldn't it still be a crime? My daughter will never get
this weekend with her dad back. The message sent to her by her mom,
that it's ok to ignore dad and take the law into your own hands, is
emotionally and psychologically damaging to her! Ok, enough of my
tortured kid=car metaphor, but a kid is more important than a car, yet
I
can't get the police to act on this!

Anyway, thanks a lot for responding Barry. The initial lack of
responses was beginning to make me doubt myself. But I'm beginning to
see that I'm in uncharted territory here.

Jay R.

wrote:
In alt.child-support JR wrote:
: Hello,

: How do I prosecute my ex-girlfriend for Custodial Interference in
: California? I've taken some steps and have a criminal case number
: assigned, but what are the next steps I need to take to get her
charged?
: I believe that if she left the state (and I believe she did),
this
is
: a felony.

I've been through this situation a lot.

The problem is the lack of clarity with the custody order regarding
when parenting time will occur. I told our custody mediator my
problems
with Custodial Interference. He wrote the custody order using
"fixed
schedule parenting time.". It's clearly stated that I'll have him
on
the first, third, and fifth (if there is a fifth) weekend of the
month
plus Thursday afternoons (between defined hours at a minimum) on
even
weeks. This is better than "every other weekend" because one can
always
look at a calendar and see if it's the first, third or fifth weekend
vs. quibbling over "what was an every other week". Additionally,
the
order states that **any deviation of the schedule has to be mutually
agreed upon in writing***. Also, if the child is "ill", a doctor's
note
is required to delay parenting time (she played that game also).

You need to pursue a contempt citation. However, the result would
probably
be the same for you as last time (not clear as a result of swapping
days,
etc.).

I would advise you to file a motion to revise your custody order.
Make it
clear which days of the week you'll be with your child and what
times.
Make it clear that any deviation HAS to be in writing and signed by
both
of you or an email must be sent and a reply given by you defining
the
change in parenting time. If you can afford it, get legal help from
an
attorney to draft the Custody Order modification. Also, I'll note
that
I've used the "dial a lawyer" attorneys available from www.nolo.com
and
have been pleased with their service and the low cost.

Good luck. Get a clear custody order and stick to it. No
deviations
that
are outside of the order. If you do, that demonstrates you are
"flexible"
and you can now see that your situation can be taken advantage of by
the ex.

barry

"P.Fritz" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
I found this post very interesting. But I would like to make a few
comments:

1. Most police do not to get involved in this type of problem because
child custody is a matter handled by a civil court. And intent in
creating a police agency is to deal with criminal matters. If
parents can not get along and follow the parenting agreement...it is a
civil matter that eventually gets sent back in front of the Family
Court.

Violating a custody order and moving a child across state lines is a
FELONY
in Mich.

And that's supposed to mean something in a practical manner?

I would be surprised if it were not a criminal staute in Ca. as
well.


2. Even if you can find an officer that will write up a rpt under
section 278.5...it will not go any where unless the D.A.'s office will
"issue" on it. Now we're in the realm of "Can I win this case, (Hell,
"Can I even get this in front of a judge") and is it worth my time to
try"? Most D.A.'s case loads are so full they only want to issue on a
case if they feel they have a chance of winning...else it is all just
a waste of time.

3. I believe the intent of 278.5 PC was to prosecute "Parental Child
Abduction". It was not intended to deal with a parent that plays the
"Johnny does not feel well enough to go with you today!" crap. It
was/is for the parent the takes the child (usually out of
county/state/country and permentantly tries to keep the child away.

Most such laws have a time period specified......over 24 hr, 48 hrs etc.


Before you think about asking a police officer to take a rpt for
"visitation interference" call your D.A.'s office and see if they
would issue on that type of case. If they won't, you are just wasting
your time talking with the officer. Remember it is not the officers
fault...if the DA's office will not "issue", the rpt is just wasted
paper. And believe me....with the divorce rate so high in the law
enforcement field, there are many police officers in the same boat.
They really can feel your pain...they just can't do anything about it.

You must have the officer file, because no complaint can be issued against
a
DA for refusing to prosecute. One of the tricks to successfully pursuing
such action is to have all the i's dotted and the t's crossed.



On Tue, 25 May 2004 07:22:55 -0500, Beverly
wrote:

A few things come to mind as I follow this thread.

1. There are many laws on the books in every state that are never
prosecuted. Some are antiquated (i.e. having to do with horse and
buggy days) and some have alternative methods that have come about in
later law for resolution. Yours sounds like the latter. Police
seldom move on things that can be handled without police intervention.

2. Even though you and your ex do not share a domicile, the case is
domestic. Many officers are loathe to get involved in domestic
disputes, and don't as a policy unless a life is in danger, as they
can be more hairy than other crimes.

3. Many crimes are not a crime which causes active investigation.
The police may have had what is called a "bench warrant" issued and,
basically, in order to be arrested, the criminal must be caught doing
something else. This can be as simple as a traffic stop, but
nonetheless is going to require another event for action. Just so you
know, this "other event" could be the criminal turning him/herself in,
so you may want to see if a bench warrant has been issued and, if so,
inform your ex that "they are looking for her." A semi-responsible
person with a child will turn themselves in if only to avoid the
necessity of bail/a night in jail so as they can make sure the state
never gets their child.

4. Beware. Taking the child out of state temporarily, causing one
missed visitation, may likely be laughed out of court, criminally and
civilly. It depends on the third parties involved. You may build a
better case tape recording your ex telling you how frivolously she
discounts your child's need for you. Documenting missed vistations
carefully, to include the reason given. The civil courts may view an
arrest of an ex-spouse as a feeble-hearted attempt to change custody
without them (the civil court) and will be angered in the process.

On Tue, 25 May 2004 03:29:26 GMT, JR wrote:

Hi Barry,

I've actually got the same "fixed schedule" order that you have (1-3-5
weekends). That's why I'm asking about criminal prosecution under Cal
PC 728.5. There's really no way our order can be mis-interpreted.
The
date, time, place, of our custody transfers are clearly stated in the
order (it took a LONG time to get the order to that point). Despite
this, mom repeatedly thumbs her nose at me and the court to the
detriment of an innocent little girl (and me, her father).

Yes, I filed the OSC Contempt papers this morning and they should be
served on Mom by Tuesday or Wednesday. The arraignment is set for
July
6th. But like I said, Civil Contempt was unsuccessful before, so I'm
looking for a way to convince law enforcement to, er, enforce the
law!!

When I discovered Cal Penal Code 278.5 via the post I pasted below, I
thought, "THIS IS IT! THERE IS A LAW SHE IS BREAKING!" But now that
I've filed the report, I'm kind of stalled.

Trouble is I know that my police report was taken not because the
police
intended to do a real investigation, but only to get me out of the
substation; to go away. I want to know how to get the police to
follow
up, verify that the orders are valid, locate and question the
criminal,
and arrest her upon verifying that statute 278.5 was violated.

I was hoping this "two-pronged" approach (civil contempt + criminal
case) might yield better results. I'm hopeful about the contempt, but
I
want to keep the criminal side moving.

There was another guy in the substation reporting a stolen car while I
was trying to get my stolen child report filed. The officer seemed so
much more willing to take the stolen car report, I guess because he
understood the crime. But what if the guy who had his car stolen on
Friday found out that the thief had returned the car, slightly
damaged,
on Monday? Wouldn't it still be a crime? My daughter will never get
this weekend with her dad back. The message sent to her by her mom,
that it's ok to ignore dad and take the law into your own hands, is
emotionally and psychologically damaging to her! Ok, enough of my
tortured kid=car metaphor, but a kid is more important than a car, yet
I
can't get the police to act on this!

Anyway, thanks a lot for responding Barry. The initial lack of
responses was beginning to make me doubt myself. But I'm beginning to
see that I'm in uncharted territory here.

Jay R.

wrote:
In alt.child-support JR wrote:
: Hello,

: How do I prosecute my ex-girlfriend for Custodial Interference in
: California? I've taken some steps and have a criminal case number
: assigned, but what are the next steps I need to take to get her
charged?
: I believe that if she left the state (and I believe she did),
this
is
: a felony.

I've been through this situation a lot.

The problem is the lack of clarity with the custody order regarding
when parenting time will occur. I told our custody mediator my
problems
with Custodial Interference. He wrote the custody order using
"fixed
schedule parenting time.". It's clearly stated that I'll have him
on
the first, third, and fifth (if there is a fifth) weekend of the
month
plus Thursday afternoons (between defined hours at a minimum) on
even
weeks. This is better than "every other weekend" because one can
always
look at a calendar and see if it's the first, third or fifth weekend
vs. quibbling over "what was an every other week". Additionally,
the
order states that **any deviation of the schedule has to be mutually
agreed upon in writing***. Also, if the child is "ill", a doctor's
note
is required to delay parenting time (she played that game also).

You need to pursue a contempt citation. However, the result would
probably
be the same for you as last time (not clear as a result of swapping
days,
etc.).

I would advise you to file a motion to revise your custody order.
Make it
clear which days of the week you'll be with your child and what
times.
Make it clear that any deviation HAS to be in writing and signed by
both
of you or an email must be sent and a reply given by you defining
the
change in parenting time. If you can afford it, get legal help from
an
attorney to draft the Custody Order modification. Also, I'll note
that
I've used the "dial a lawyer" attorneys available from www.nolo.com
and
have been pleased with their service and the low cost.

Good luck. Get a clear custody order and stick to it. No
deviations
that
are outside of the order. If you do, that demonstrates you are
"flexible"
and you can now see that your situation can be taken advantage of by
the ex.

barry