How long can bf'ing go on with a bad latch?

A little background...our DD is 6 weeks, 4 days old today...I have been
bf'ing her exclusively since she was born. I do pump every 2-3 days for
an emergency freezer stash and she takes 2-3 bottles a week with no
problem from dh or one of the grandmas. She was born at 7lbs 11oz and
as of this past Tuesday she weighed 10lbs, 3oz...so she's gaining well.
She has also gained in length from 20 inches to 22.

From the very start we have had a bad latch...only being new at this, I
didn't realize it. Nurses helped me to latch dd on in the hospital, and
now that I think back, not one of them mentioned anything about her
latch or even paid attention to it at all...they just shoved dd on to my
breast and that was it. Because dd was getting milk (after it came in)
and gaining weight, I figured we were doing fine. I had heard several
times from different sources that it should hurt a bit for a moment or
two when a baby first latches on, and then that pain should go
away...that's how you know your latch is good. It wasn't until later
that I realized that her latch was in fact not good.

The best way I can describe her latch is, she sucks the nipple in from
the tip like it's a straw...and then she takes the whole nipple into her
mouth with very little of the areola. She has never really opened her
mouth wide like a yawn...and her lips really aren't "flanged" either.
Sometimes the top lip is, but never the bottom.

So far the only problems I have had as a result of this are very
pinkish-red nipples and some slight soreness. The soreness only occurs
when she first latches...then it disappears. Other than that I've had
no cracking or bleeding, and dd seems to be doing fine...gaining weight
and seems content after feeding.

I have tried to correct this...visted a LC in her home and she was very
nice and helpful...unfortunately dd was not cooperating. She was sleepy
at the time. She was able to show me what a good latch should look like
though, which was a help. The problem is, dd is determined to stick
with her old latch...she just will not open her mouth wide enough, and
if she does and I'm able to give her a good mouthful she lets it slide
back out of her mouth.

My question: Have any of you had a bad latch that never improved, and
if so, how long were you able to bf? Since dd is going on 7 weeks old,
I'm thinking it's too late to get her to change. I'm worried that this
will end our bf relationship way earlier than I want. The only thing
that I'm hanging on to is maybe our latch isn't TOO bad, as it really
doesn't hurt much if any and I've made it this far with no serious
troubles...and dd is gaining well. I'm just worried that as she gets
bigger she won't be able to get enough milk.

Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated. I was hoping to bf
for at least a year...it really disturbs me to think that we might have
to end this sooner...and I HATE the idea of giving her formula.

Thanks everyone,
Kathy

"Kathy" wrote My question: Have any of you had a bad
latch that never improved, and
if so, how long were you able to bf? Since dd is going on 7 weeks old,
I'm thinking it's too late to get her to change. I'm worried that this
will end our bf relationship way earlier than I want. The only thing
that I'm hanging on to is maybe our latch isn't TOO bad, as it really
doesn't hurt much if any and I've made it this far with no serious
troubles...and dd is gaining well. I'm just worried that as she gets
bigger she won't be able to get enough milk.

Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.


As she gets bigger her mouth will get bigger, ,making it easier to get the
areola in there.

To get her mouth open wide enough now, hold her away from the breast and let
her scream one good time, when her mouth is wide open quickly move her onto
the breast, you should be able to get more in that way.

Nina wrote:

As she gets bigger her mouth will get
bigger, ,making it easier to get the areola
in there.
To get her mouth open wide enough now,
hold her away from the breast and let her
scream one good time, when her mouth is
wide open quickly move her onto the
breast, you should be able to get more in
that way.

That's a really good idea...and I should have no problem getting her to
give me a nice big cry, as she gets aggrivated if I waste too much time
getting her to the breast.

A couple of times she actually did yawn just before I latched her on,
and I hurried up and moved her on to the breast...I noticed a difference
right away. Trouble was, I had to hold her head there very firmly the
whole time, or she would either let go or let most of the areola slip
out of her mouth.

It's reassuring to know that as her mouth grows things may improve.
Thanks for your help...
Kathy

"Kathy" wrote in message
...

A little background...our DD is 6 weeks, 4 days old today...I have been
bf'ing her exclusively since she was born. I do pump every 2-3 days for
an emergency freezer stash and she takes 2-3 bottles a week with no
problem from dh or one of the grandmas. She was born at 7lbs 11oz and
as of this past Tuesday she weighed 10lbs, 3oz...so she's gaining well.
She has also gained in length from 20 inches to 22.

From the very start we have had a bad latch...only being new at this, I
didn't realize it. Nurses helped me to latch dd on in the hospital, and
now that I think back, not one of them mentioned anything about her
latch or even paid attention to it at all...they just shoved dd on to my
breast and that was it. Because dd was getting milk (after it came in)
and gaining weight, I figured we were doing fine. I had heard several
times from different sources that it should hurt a bit for a moment or
two when a baby first latches on, and then that pain should go
away...that's how you know your latch is good. It wasn't until later
that I realized that her latch was in fact not good.

The best way I can describe her latch is, she sucks the nipple in from
the tip like it's a straw...and then she takes the whole nipple into her
mouth with very little of the areola. She has never really opened her
mouth wide like a yawn...and her lips really aren't "flanged" either.
Sometimes the top lip is, but never the bottom.

So far the only problems I have had as a result of this are very
pinkish-red nipples and some slight soreness. The soreness only occurs
when she first latches...then it disappears. Other than that I've had
no cracking or bleeding, and dd seems to be doing fine...gaining weight
and seems content after feeding.

I have tried to correct this...visted a LC in her home and she was very
nice and helpful...unfortunately dd was not cooperating. She was sleepy
at the time. She was able to show me what a good latch should look like
though, which was a help. The problem is, dd is determined to stick
with her old latch...she just will not open her mouth wide enough, and
if she does and I'm able to give her a good mouthful she lets it slide
back out of her mouth.

My question: Have any of you had a bad latch that never improved, and
if so, how long were you able to bf? Since dd is going on 7 weeks old,
I'm thinking it's too late to get her to change. I'm worried that this
will end our bf relationship way earlier than I want. The only thing
that I'm hanging on to is maybe our latch isn't TOO bad, as it really
doesn't hurt much if any and I've made it this far with no serious
troubles...and dd is gaining well. I'm just worried that as she gets
bigger she won't be able to get enough milk.

Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated. I was hoping to bf
for at least a year...it really disturbs me to think that we might have
to end this sooner...and I HATE the idea of giving her formula.

Thanks everyone,
Kathy


Interesting. Most ladies that told me about how their baby fed such as yours
does, I'd be very worried, and they'd likely be very sore. A bad latch, for
most, can mean a great deal of pain, very sore and even cracked nipples. I'd
be extremely concerned about the longevity of their BF relationship.

However, you seem to be getting on ok with it. You've not got any of the
hallmarks of a problem here. If your baby weren't gaining and if BF were
very painful that would be one thing, but all seems to be going fine, apart
from her not behaving like textbook and you being a little sore, both of
which I guess it would be nice to correct.

I guess what I'm saying is you don't need to worry too much about whether
you'll be able to continue BF as to me it sounds like you will. Of course
you can try and correct your issues, but as they're not causing you serious
problems, which they would be by 6 weeks if they were a big issue, so it
seems to be you'd be able to carry on this way indefinitely.

It's true that it gets easier the larger the baby gets. It's much easier to
latch a baby on when they have a larger mouth. Having said that I'm sure
there are things you could try for now. But, your baby has had 6 weeks to
get used to how you've both been feeding, I would imagine she's going to
struggle a little to learn a new technique as it were, but if you persevere
she should get the message.

Some mothers find it helpful to press their baby's chin down at the last
moment to really open their mouth wide. I'm not sure if you'll be able to
try this, it often seems to me to require more hands and fingers than most
are endowed with, but may be worth a shot.

Another thing is to have the baby further away from the nipple. Try holding
her more towards your cleavage than the nipple, tickle her nose, cheek or
top lip with the nipple (preferably oozing milk!) to tease her. Perhaps if
she really has to reach for the breast (which is how babies should do it)
she may open her mouth further.

As the other poster suggested you can always wait until she cries and then
try, although many won't latch on when they are crying anyway.

If you're going to tackle this then you'll probably have to break her latch
each time it's not right and insist on her taking it the right way. I don't
think it's too late to change but I think you'd have to be insistent and
absolutely vigilant about things.

good luck
Nikki

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:45:41 -0600 (CST), (Kathy)
wrote:

A couple of times she actually did yawn just before I latched her on,
and I hurried up and moved her on to the breast...I noticed a difference
right away. Trouble was, I had to hold her head there very firmly the
whole time, or she would either let go or let most of the areola slip
out of her mouth.

That sounds familiar, and I've just decided that at the moment holding
the baby's head to keep it in place is worth the effort - certainly it
beats the pain of the bad latch and the wails when Jack slides off the
nipple yet again!

Kathy wrote:

Trouble was, I had to hold her head there
very firmly the whole time, or she would either let go or let most of
the areola slip out of her mouth.

I would work at getting the latch right. If after a week it is still a
hassle, then I'd give up. You'd have to work at it at *each* nursing
session though, not just some. It doesn't hurt now but it might not feel so
hot when the baby is older and has a stronger suck. I was pretty obsessive
about making sure mine kept a correct latch. I would focus on getting the
babies mouth wide open, keeping a good position after latch (don't let
*your* arm fall and therefore the baby slides down too) and getting the lips
falanged. IMO don't fret about how much areola the baby gets. I can't
imagine a baby *ever* getting all that in their mouth.

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

Kathy wrote in message
...
My question: Have any of you had a bad latch that never
improved, and if so, how long were you able to bf? Since
dd is going on 7 weeks old, I'm thinking it's too late to get
her to change. I'm worried that this will end our bf relationship
way earlier than I want. The only thing that I'm hanging on to
is maybe our latch isn't TOO bad, as it really doesn't hurt much
if any and I've made it this far with no serious troubles...and dd
is gaining well. I'm just worried that as she gets bigger she
won't be able to get enough milk.

DS actually latches himself on in a similar manner to your DD,
especially at night when I'm too bleary to help him on at all. It
doesn't hurt me, so I don't care. He's getting plenty of milk. I don't
expect it to have any effect whatsoever on how long he nurses. It
doesn't sound like it's a problem for you either, though I'm sure the
bit of soreness at the start would be nice to get rid of. I think that
as your DD gets bigger, if she does have trouble getting as much milk as
she wants (which I don't think will happen anyway), she will alter her
technique on her own. The positive reinforcement of increased milk flow
when she gets it right should be enough to get her to improve.
--
Cheryl S.
Mom to Julie, 2 yr., 7 mo.
And Jaden, 1 month

Cleaning the house while your children are small is like
shoveling the sidewalk while it's still snowing.

A couple of times she actually did yawn just before I latched her on,
and I hurried up and moved her on to the breast...I noticed a difference
right away. Trouble was, I had to hold her head there very firmly the
whole time, or she would either let go or let most of the areola slip
out of her mouth.

It's definitely not too late to teach her to change her habits, though the
process isn't likely to be much fun.

You DO have to hold her head firmly the whole time, once you get a good latch.
This will continue for at least another 6 weeks or so, until she has better
control over her own head and has learned to maintain a proper latch.

You also will have to get over whatever fears you have about her not getting
enough milk if you don't let her nurse, and INSIST upon a correct latch.
You'll get yourself in trouble if you let her nurse "wrong" just to be sure
that she does nurse. Keep unlatching her and starting over until she gets it
right. (Often you can use your finger to "roll" her lips out to a flanged
position, without unlatching her completely, if that's the only problem.) Yes,
it may take a long time and you may both be miserable, but you've gotta do it,
at EVERY feeding.

You really are fortunate that your nipples aren't a painful oozing mess! And
her weight gain does indicate that you're not having supply problems, at least
not yet. So that's good. Get the latch corrected ASAP and you never will!
:-)

Holly
Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs

(Kathy) wrote:
... I had to hold her head there very firmly the whole time ...

This is worth doing every time, till she learns the new, more proper
latch. I second the chin-pull, also. It made a HUGE difference with my
son's latch (from really sore to great in a few days, iirc), and I still
do it with my 17 month old daughter because it helps with her, too.

--
-- Vicki
Married DH May 21, 1995
Ima shel DS, born 11/16/99; and DD, born 5/19/02.
"Stay-at-home" Ima since October 2002.
An ounce of mother is worth a pound of clergy. -Spanish proverb
I may not currently be pregnant, but I look pregnant, does that count?

"Cheryl S." wrote in message
Kathy wrote in message
My question: Have any of you had a bad latch that never
improved, and if so, how long were you able to bf? Since
dd is going on 7 weeks old, I'm thinking it's too late to get
her to change. I'm worried that this will end our bf relationship
way earlier than I want. The only thing that I'm hanging on to
is maybe our latch isn't TOO bad, as it really doesn't hurt much
if any and I've made it this far with no serious troubles...and dd
is gaining well. I'm just worried that as she gets bigger she
won't be able to get enough milk.

DS actually latches himself on in a similar manner to your DD,
especially at night when I'm too bleary to help him on at all. It
doesn't hurt me, so I don't care. He's getting plenty of milk. I don't
expect it to have any effect whatsoever on how long he nurses. It
doesn't sound like it's a problem for you either, though I'm sure the
bit of soreness at the start would be nice to get rid of. I think that
as your DD gets bigger, if she does have trouble getting as much milk as
she wants (which I don't think will happen anyway), she will alter her
technique on her own. The positive reinforcement of increased milk flow
when she gets it right should be enough to get her to improve.

My DS also latches on somewhat like this initially--"slurps" in the nipple,
as opposed to opening wide. It doesn't hurt, so I haven't stopped him,
though I do sometimes feel like we're doing it "wrong"! I don't hold my
breast to latch him on either--just point the nipple at him and he lunges
forward and slurps it in. At night he kind of bobbles about, until he finds
the nipple and again with the *slurp*. However, he does get almost all of
the areola in as well and his lips *are* flanged out (very rarely I do have
to pull his lower lip down a little bit more, but it is always flanged
outward. He just sometimes "pinches" it up a bit more than I like). So, I
really don't feel like we have a bad latch, overall--just the initial
latch-on moment isn't quite textbook.

--
Em
mama to Lann, 9/21/03