Low supply due to slow build up of milk

On Apr 22, 8:21 am, Irrational Number wrote:
wrote:

Sorry my son was born at 5 lbs 12 ozs and lost to 4 lbs 11 ozs in 5
days.

First of all, it takes up to two weeks to regain
to birth weight. I think your son did do that.

to move to complete breast milk in about 2 weeks.

Excellent.

He weighed 9 lbs 3
ozs one week ago.

Wow, so in 2 months, he almost doubled his weight.
He is doing awesome.

Weight gain on the breast is good, only if he is
nursing all the time. I mean all the time with maybe 2 hours off
during day given at 30 minute times and a 6 hour stretch at night.

This is normal. Repeat after me, what your baby
is doing is normal. Infants are supposed to
nurse all the time. Yes, normal. Got that?

Pillbug nursed for 45 minutes per hour, every
hour, during the daytime. He went about 3 hours
at night. Rocky was latched on almost constantly
in the first few weeks, then went to cluster feeding,
where he nursed from 5pm to 9pm straight (well, okay,
I got 5-minute breaks here and there).

Any
other time, we were feeding. I am lucking to work for myself, but
still need time during the day to work.

The reason new mothers need their village is that
nursing takes up so much time initially. I'm sorry
that you have to work so soon after giving birth.

I have just never felt as though there was much milk. Even at times
when most talk about engorgement and leaking, I never seemed to have
any firmness to the breast at all.

That's fine. You don't have to ever feel engorgement.
Consider yourself lucky that you don't have to spend
a fortune on bra pads.

I can feel the milk now but only 4
hours after pumping and sometimes up to 8

Now, it seems to me you have great supply. Baby is
gaining weight well and he is doing this by nursing
exclusively. You do NOT have to pump. Unless you
are building up a freezer stash, stop pumping now.
Give yourself a break.

Since he nursed all day, my breast got used to slowly producing milk.
I need to speed that milk production up.

No, you do not need to "speed ... production up".
You are doing fine.

If I could never get 4 ounces off both (2 oz each) breast with 20
minutes at each breast(double pump), then I would say that maybe I
could not pump.

When women pump in addition to nursing, getting 1 oz.
is average. When pumping instead of nursing (such as
at work), 3 oz. is average. You are pumping in
addition to nursing and getting 4 oz. That is
extremely good supply.

But, I can when the breast get firm. I also can get
close to the same production from a manual pump (it just causes my
arms to hurt).

Stop pumping. You're fine. Stop pumping.

If you want to create a freezer stash, then pump
once a day and freeze that milk. Otherwise, stop
pumping. Don't stress. Give yourself some extra
free time.

Baby is doing great. Stop pumping.

-- Anita --

Thanks Anita for making me feel a little better. The only thing is
since he was feeding so much I thought that he was not getting enough.
I went to bottle feeding but pumping the breastmilk and limited
formula. He is feeding every 2 hours and taking 4 to 5 ounces. I was
trying to pump and get as much as he needed to fill the bottles. After
a week and a half break, last night after posting and xkatx responded,
I put him back on the breast. He took it with no problems and is
actually stronger feeding that he used to be. I guess that is coming
with him getting bigger. I think maybe I was expecting myself to do
much more than what is possible.
I will put him back on the breast when not working. I do need to try
and pump to meet his demands while I work. Every formula I have tried
him on he throws it up after a couple of bottles.

On Apr 22, 1:35 am, "xkatx" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...

On Apr 22, 12:02 am, "xkatx" wrote:
wrote in message

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I am having a problem with supply. My son was born 3 weeks early and
is now 8 weeks old. I have been having problems breastfeeding from the
beginning. Know problems are high palette and weak sucking. The
hospital grade pump is stronger than he is. I have been on Fenegreek
and Blessed Thistle and still no success. I have gotten my supply "up"
some by pumping. My problem is that I can pump every hour and get an
ounce or less off each breast or I can pump every 4 hours and get 2 to
2 1/2 ounces per breast. I have gone to pump and then feed milk with
the bottle until I can get my supply up. I know my breast can carry
more that just a couple of ounces. If I go 8 to 10 hours then I get
engorged and can pull 3 to 4 ounces off each breast. I have tried
pumping every hour and can not get my breast to produce milk quicker.
If I empty the breast, it can take up to six hours before I can "feel"
like I have milk. If I do not "feel" like I have milk it seems that I
can not even get an ounce after 20 minutes of pumping. I was wondering
why it takes so long after being emptied to have enough milk for a
good 4 ounce feeding. Any advice on helping the milk to come on
quicker would me greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Monica

I don't know if I have much as far as advice goes, but I'm sure there's a
lot that will!
I know for me, a pump just doesn't work very well.
I remember with DS2, I could manually express a lot more than I could
pump
out with any type of pump, but I was able to get quite a bit out with a
pump. I remember at almost any given time, I'd have about 10 bottles of
8oz
of milk frozen and stored.
With DD2, I couldn't pump and still can't pump. I also can't really
manually express much either. She seems to be my only "pump" that can
get
much out any time. For some, pumps seem to work great. For others, not
so
great. You just might be one of those that the pump just isn't the thing
for you.
How is your son's weight gain? Weight gain, I do believe, is far better
than trying to figure out how much milk. If weight gain is good, then
chances are, regardless of how much you can pump out, he is getting
enough.
If his weight gain isn't very good, then that's a different story.
With breast feeding, one of the downfalls can be you never know just how
much a baby takes at one time. I've even found, IME, each baby is
different. I remember DS2 would eat FOREVER. He would nurse a good
15-20
minutes on each side before he was done. I also know DD2 now will only
feed
about 5-10 minutes at the most on each side and then she's done. DS1 and
DS2 were right in the middle and seemed to be 'on average' for all of my
kids. DS2 and DD2 seemed to be extreme opposites for nursing, yet they
both
still had excellent weight gain.
I would just watch weight and see how content he is. You don't really
mention much about that.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry my son was born at 5 lbs 12 ozs and lost to 4 lbs 11 ozs in 5
days. I started giving formula to get some weight gain and slowly got
to move to complete breast milk in about 2 weeks. He weighed 9 lbs 3
ozs one week ago. Weight gain on the breast is good, only if he is
nursing all the time. I mean all the time with maybe 2 hours off
during day given at 30 minute times and a 6 hour stretch at night. Any
other time, we were feeding. I am lucking to work for myself, but
still need time during the day to work.

Weight loss in the first little bit is not uncommon. 'They' say that an
average baby will lose weight but be back to birth weight by about 10 days.
I'm not sure who 'they' is, and this is just what seems to be most common,
IME.
I would think that his weight gain so far is pretty good.
Also, it's not uncommon for babies that are fed on demand to seem like
they're constantly eating. I know I had this problem with DD2 recently.
She was always fed on demand and it often felt like she was eating every
hour. I did feed her ALL the time, but I slowly learned to follow her cues.
When she cried and seemed hungry, sometimes she wasn't. There were times at
the beginning that when she'd cry, I'd feed her, yet she really wasn't
hungry. She was tired. She was too warm. Too cold. Bored. Whatever.
Crying doesn't always mean hungry, neither does sucking. Sometimes it seems
they just like to suck for comfort.
6 hours of sleep at night is really good for that age. IIRC, I read
somewhere that 6 hours of sleep through the night is basically considered
sleeping through the night.
With the feeding constantly during the day, I found it really hard on me as
I couldn't just sit down and relax EVER to feed her all the time because I
have older children. I have a toddler to put down for naps, play with, give
attention to. I have a bus to get ready for to send a school aged one off
to school, and also a bus to wait for at lunch time for returning home from
school. Play time, craft time, attention time for everyone else as well.
That's when I really tried hard to take note of what the newborn was trying
to say and found out crying doesn't always mean hunger!

I have just never felt as though there was much milk. Even at times
when most talk about engorgement and leaking, I never seemed to have
any firmness to the breast at all. I can feel the milk now but only 4
hours after pumping and sometimes up to 8 (The knots in my breast).
The lactation consultant said that most of it may be due to the high
palette. He flipped the nipple upward and slowed the flow. He is also
a weak drinker. I chose to go to pumping to help with the all the time
feeding. I was told that my body may be used to the way my son fed.
Since he nursed all day, my breast got used to slowly producing milk.
I need to speed that milk production up.

Engorgement doesn't always happen to every woman. It does happen often
enough, but some don't experience it. Often, IME, it happens right at the
start when milk first comes in in the first couple days. I haven't used
more than about 8 breast pads in a big box of them since DD2 was born, and
she's 6 months old. I normally don't feel full, except on occasion.
It is true that milk does come on demand. You pretty much do set the amount
by how much baby feeds. This could go back to the part about babies crying
does not always mean they're hungry. If possible, maybe some type of
schedule might help, especially if there are other things you must do during
the day and don't have the option or ability to just nurse the baby all day.
If you can hold him off an extra hour between feedings during the day, it
might help with his feeding. If you slowly get him to go longer between
feedings, it just might be easier for you. Right now, it's very possible
he's only getting partial feedings because he is fed so often. He might be
feeding on only a half-empty stomach, so he only takes half of what his
tummy can hold, causing feedings more often and for less at each time.
For speeding up, some women, I've heard, swear on oatmeal every day as well.
Also, I have found that if I'm able to relax and be very comfortable for
feeding DD2, it's just easier. Relaxing can help as well, as stress might
do the opposite.

If I could never get 4 ounces off both (2 oz each) breast with 20
minutes at each breast(double pump), then I would say that maybe I
could not pump. But, I can when the breast get firm. I also can get
close to the same production from a manual pump (it just causes my
arms to hurt). Not hard, just firm. Then when I fully empty it, it
will take 4 to 6 hours to get to that state again to get 4 ounces. Or
I can pump every 2 hours and get 2 ounces from both (1 oz each) breast
and it take 2 to 4 hours before I can pump again.
Sorry for leaving some details out. If you have any more questions,
just ask.....:-)
Thanks for your quick response. I see that each child is different. My
DD1, DS1, and DS2 was all formula fed. My DS3 is the one that I chose
to breastfeed. I enjoy it, but it is more worrysome than formula
feeding. I had tumors in my breast after the birth of the first 3 and
chose not to breastfeed out of fear that something could happen to
them. I wish I would have been more knowledgable then.

For everyone, it does definitely seem to be very different experiences.
As far as way of feeding goes, I really do believe that whatever works best
for mother and baby is the best. I do strongly support breast feeding. I
do strongly believe the saying that 'breast is best' (even have a keychain
saying that on my van keys!) but I would never look down on someone who
formula feeds, just as I would not want someone to look down on me for
breast feeding. Breast feeding isn't something that always comes naturally
for every mother and every baby. For me, nursing my first for the first
time ever was so easy. We had absolutely no problems at all. For some
reason, he latched perfectly since the first time and from that point on, it
went as smooth as possible. It did feel so natural, like we both knew
exactly what we were doing, yet I really didn't know. With DD1 and DD2,
OTOH, we really, really had to work. It came as a shock to me as I did have
this thought in my head that since I had done it many, many times before, it
would be a snap and as easy as could be. Boy, was I ever wrong. With both
girls, we BOTH had to work extremely hard, and it was so far from a walk in
the park.

I would just simply watch his weight. Breasts that don't feel full don't
always mean they're empty and nothing is in there. Melon-boobs (when they
do feel full) often seem to produce more visible results, like with a pump,
but I have found from experience that even if they don't feel full at all,
it doesn't always mean that the baby can't get anything out. After all, the
baby is most often your best 'pump'!

Thank you so much for your advice. I have put him back on the breast.
I also think a schedule is great advice. The doctor and lactation
consultant have stressed the feed on demand. Over the next couple of
days I will work on getting the supply up with him nursing and then
work a schedule out.
Formula supplement is hard on the baby. He throws it up after a couple
of bottles and we have tried several different formulas.
I think you might be right about the pumping though, it might not be
for me unless I am "full".
I am surprised at how much stronger he is nursing than what he was a
week and a half ago. When I went to fully pumping, the pump was
stronger than him at half strength.

milk is supply and demand, it's not a case of how much each breast can
store, milk is produced in the breast during each feed. Most of the time
when there is low supply due to baby having difficulty getting it out,
pumping and feeding bottles does not work, pumps do not stimulate the breast
as well as the baby and the already low supply will likely dwindle further.
The best solution is do nurse the baby on demand, as long as the baby will
stay on the breast, switch breasts as needed, being sure to use both in each
feeding, then after each feed, pump at least 5 minutes on each side and
store the milk, do not feed it to the baby unless absolutely necessary, you
need to send your body signals that extra milk is needed, if you feed the
expressed milk to the baby, they will eat less next time so the signals are
not sent. Of course if supplementation becomes necessary for the health of
the baby, breastmilk is the best supplementation, not formula, but if there
is true low supply expressing after each feed will not likely produce much,
even over a day is unlikely to be sufficient for a supplementary feed.

Ultimately, the more the baby is on the breast the more signals your body
receives to produce milk. A baby with a weak suck is hard to deal with
because each feed takes so much longer, but it is possible and usually after
a week of feeding over half the time, the supply will increase, but as the
weak such continues, it's important to keep making sure enough stimulation
occurs. My son was like this and it was only once he was about 7mths that I
finally didn't feel I had to watch my supply vigilently. The good news is
that it doesn't mean it will be the same next time, each baby is different,
plus 2nd timers do tend to produce more milk, I had a plentiful supply 2nd
time around, though the strong suck of a normal newborn was a bit of a
shock!

Anne

Sorry my son was born at 5 lbs 12 ozs and lost to 4 lbs 11 ozs in 5
days. I started giving formula to get some weight gain and slowly got
to move to complete breast milk in about 2 weeks. He weighed 9 lbs 3
ozs one week ago. Weight gain on the breast is good, only if he is
nursing all the time. I mean all the time with maybe 2 hours off
during day given at 30 minute times and a 6 hour stretch at night.

With this information, I take back all my advice about pumping after each
feed to build up supply, your baby is doing absolutely fine, my son was
similar at birth to yours and was 8lb2oz at 8 weeks, a whole pound less than
yours, even at that stage there was little concern about his weight gain, it
was over the next 4 weeks that the concern rose. It doesn't sound to me like
you have a supply problem. Feeding that frequently is your babies way of
making sure he gets enough, it won't last forever, increasing your supply
won't help the feeds be faster because baby can only swallow at a certain
rate, he's not going to suddenly be able to eat faster if there is more
milk. One of the supplements that encourages let down might be helpful, I
think it's brewer's yeast, but I'm not sure.

Anne

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Apr 22, 1:35 am, "xkatx" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...

On Apr 22, 12:02 am, "xkatx" wrote:
wrote in message

groups.com...

I am having a problem with supply. My son was born 3 weeks early and
is now 8 weeks old. I have been having problems breastfeeding from
the
beginning. Know problems are high palette and weak sucking. The
hospital grade pump is stronger than he is. I have been on Fenegreek
and Blessed Thistle and still no success. I have gotten my supply
"up"
some by pumping. My problem is that I can pump every hour and get an
ounce or less off each breast or I can pump every 4 hours and get 2
to
2 1/2 ounces per breast. I have gone to pump and then feed milk with
the bottle until I can get my supply up. I know my breast can carry
more that just a couple of ounces. If I go 8 to 10 hours then I get
engorged and can pull 3 to 4 ounces off each breast. I have tried
pumping every hour and can not get my breast to produce milk
quicker.
If I empty the breast, it can take up to six hours before I can
"feel"
like I have milk. If I do not "feel" like I have milk it seems that
I
can not even get an ounce after 20 minutes of pumping. I was
wondering
why it takes so long after being emptied to have enough milk for a
good 4 ounce feeding. Any advice on helping the milk to come on
quicker would me greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Monica

I don't know if I have much as far as advice goes, but I'm sure
there's a
lot that will!
I know for me, a pump just doesn't work very well.
I remember with DS2, I could manually express a lot more than I could
pump
out with any type of pump, but I was able to get quite a bit out with
a
pump. I remember at almost any given time, I'd have about 10 bottles
of
8oz
of milk frozen and stored.
With DD2, I couldn't pump and still can't pump. I also can't really
manually express much either. She seems to be my only "pump" that can
get
much out any time. For some, pumps seem to work great. For others,
not
so
great. You just might be one of those that the pump just isn't the
thing
for you.
How is your son's weight gain? Weight gain, I do believe, is far
better
than trying to figure out how much milk. If weight gain is good, then
chances are, regardless of how much you can pump out, he is getting
enough.
If his weight gain isn't very good, then that's a different story.
With breast feeding, one of the downfalls can be you never know just
how
much a baby takes at one time. I've even found, IME, each baby is
different. I remember DS2 would eat FOREVER. He would nurse a good
15-20
minutes on each side before he was done. I also know DD2 now will
only
feed
about 5-10 minutes at the most on each side and then she's done. DS1
and
DS2 were right in the middle and seemed to be 'on average' for all of
my
kids. DS2 and DD2 seemed to be extreme opposites for nursing, yet
they
both
still had excellent weight gain.
I would just watch weight and see how content he is. You don't really
mention much about that.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry my son was born at 5 lbs 12 ozs and lost to 4 lbs 11 ozs in 5
days. I started giving formula to get some weight gain and slowly got
to move to complete breast milk in about 2 weeks. He weighed 9 lbs 3
ozs one week ago. Weight gain on the breast is good, only if he is
nursing all the time. I mean all the time with maybe 2 hours off
during day given at 30 minute times and a 6 hour stretch at night. Any
other time, we were feeding. I am lucking to work for myself, but
still need time during the day to work.

Weight loss in the first little bit is not uncommon. 'They' say that an
average baby will lose weight but be back to birth weight by about 10
days.
I'm not sure who 'they' is, and this is just what seems to be most
common,
IME.
I would think that his weight gain so far is pretty good.
Also, it's not uncommon for babies that are fed on demand to seem like
they're constantly eating. I know I had this problem with DD2 recently.
She was always fed on demand and it often felt like she was eating every
hour. I did feed her ALL the time, but I slowly learned to follow her
cues.
When she cried and seemed hungry, sometimes she wasn't. There were times
at
the beginning that when she'd cry, I'd feed her, yet she really wasn't
hungry. She was tired. She was too warm. Too cold. Bored. Whatever.
Crying doesn't always mean hungry, neither does sucking. Sometimes it
seems
they just like to suck for comfort.
6 hours of sleep at night is really good for that age. IIRC, I read
somewhere that 6 hours of sleep through the night is basically considered
sleeping through the night.
With the feeding constantly during the day, I found it really hard on me
as
I couldn't just sit down and relax EVER to feed her all the time because
I
have older children. I have a toddler to put down for naps, play with,
give
attention to. I have a bus to get ready for to send a school aged one
off
to school, and also a bus to wait for at lunch time for returning home
from
school. Play time, craft time, attention time for everyone else as well.
That's when I really tried hard to take note of what the newborn was
trying
to say and found out crying doesn't always mean hunger!

I have just never felt as though there was much milk. Even at times
when most talk about engorgement and leaking, I never seemed to have
any firmness to the breast at all. I can feel the milk now but only 4
hours after pumping and sometimes up to 8 (The knots in my breast).
The lactation consultant said that most of it may be due to the high
palette. He flipped the nipple upward and slowed the flow. He is also
a weak drinker. I chose to go to pumping to help with the all the time
feeding. I was told that my body may be used to the way my son fed.
Since he nursed all day, my breast got used to slowly producing milk.
I need to speed that milk production up.

Engorgement doesn't always happen to every woman. It does happen often
enough, but some don't experience it. Often, IME, it happens right at
the
start when milk first comes in in the first couple days. I haven't used
more than about 8 breast pads in a big box of them since DD2 was born,
and
she's 6 months old. I normally don't feel full, except on occasion.
It is true that milk does come on demand. You pretty much do set the
amount
by how much baby feeds. This could go back to the part about babies
crying
does not always mean they're hungry. If possible, maybe some type of
schedule might help, especially if there are other things you must do
during
the day and don't have the option or ability to just nurse the baby all
day.
If you can hold him off an extra hour between feedings during the day, it
might help with his feeding. If you slowly get him to go longer between
feedings, it just might be easier for you. Right now, it's very possible
he's only getting partial feedings because he is fed so often. He might
be
feeding on only a half-empty stomach, so he only takes half of what his
tummy can hold, causing feedings more often and for less at each time.
For speeding up, some women, I've heard, swear on oatmeal every day as
well.
Also, I have found that if I'm able to relax and be very comfortable for
feeding DD2, it's just easier. Relaxing can help as well, as stress
might
do the opposite.

If I could never get 4 ounces off both (2 oz each) breast with 20
minutes at each breast(double pump), then I would say that maybe I
could not pump. But, I can when the breast get firm. I also can get
close to the same production from a manual pump (it just causes my
arms to hurt). Not hard, just firm. Then when I fully empty it, it
will take 4 to 6 hours to get to that state again to get 4 ounces. Or
I can pump every 2 hours and get 2 ounces from both (1 oz each) breast
and it take 2 to 4 hours before I can pump again.
Sorry for leaving some details out. If you have any more questions,
just ask.....:-)
Thanks for your quick response. I see that each child is different. My
DD1, DS1, and DS2 was all formula fed. My DS3 is the one that I chose
to breastfeed. I enjoy it, but it is more worrysome than formula
feeding. I had tumors in my breast after the birth of the first 3 and
chose not to breastfeed out of fear that something could happen to
them. I wish I would have been more knowledgable then.

For everyone, it does definitely seem to be very different experiences.
As far as way of feeding goes, I really do believe that whatever works
best
for mother and baby is the best. I do strongly support breast feeding.
I
do strongly believe the saying that 'breast is best' (even have a
keychain
saying that on my van keys!) but I would never look down on someone who
formula feeds, just as I would not want someone to look down on me for
breast feeding. Breast feeding isn't something that always comes
naturally
for every mother and every baby. For me, nursing my first for the first
time ever was so easy. We had absolutely no problems at all. For some
reason, he latched perfectly since the first time and from that point on,
it
went as smooth as possible. It did feel so natural, like we both knew
exactly what we were doing, yet I really didn't know. With DD1 and DD2,
OTOH, we really, really had to work. It came as a shock to me as I did
have
this thought in my head that since I had done it many, many times before,
it
would be a snap and as easy as could be. Boy, was I ever wrong. With
both
girls, we BOTH had to work extremely hard, and it was so far from a walk
in
the park.

I would just simply watch his weight. Breasts that don't feel full don't
always mean they're empty and nothing is in there. Melon-boobs (when
they
do feel full) often seem to produce more visible results, like with a
pump,
but I have found from experience that even if they don't feel full at
all,
it doesn't always mean that the baby can't get anything out. After all,
the
baby is most often your best 'pump'!

Thank you so much for your advice. I have put him back on the breast.
I also think a schedule is great advice. The doctor and lactation
consultant have stressed the feed on demand. Over the next couple of
days I will work on getting the supply up with him nursing and then
work a schedule out.

You can still feed on demand with a flexible schedule. Feeding on demand
doesn't always have to mean you have to feed a baby every second of your
day. In all honesty, if I had to 'feed on demand' almost every moment, I
don't think I would breast feed. It would just be too hard on me!
If you try a flexible schedule, at first it might be a bit of a challenge.
Breast feeding isn't *always* easy. Many times, it does take work. A light
schedule that you try to keep at will also help with feeding on demand.
Your baby will get more used to waiting longer between feedings and feeding
when he's really hungry. Feed on demand, but feed him when he's hungry, and
trust me, it will be easier for you. I put DD2 on a schedule, more or less,
yet she still feeds on demand. I do not monitor how much she's taking - I
take note that she feeds for a little over 5 minutes per side, she's very
content after feeding, has regular wet/dirty diapers (although it's not
unusual if baby doesn't have a dirty diaper for a few days, even, as long as
they're wet) and her weight gain is good.

Formula supplement is hard on the baby. He throws it up after a couple
of bottles and we have tried several different formulas.

Formula is harder on babies, and it seems especially hard for a breast fed
or EBM fed baby. Mother's milk is obviously the best for a baby because
it's made for them. It's not manufactured to "be like" milk, it is milk.
It's easier for them to digest than formula, which is why breast fed babies
often feed more often. Formula seems to fill them up a lot faster and be
harder to digest. IMO, formula is not 'bad' but I wouldn't offer mine
formula unless it was absolutely necessary. I do strongly believe that
breast milk is best for a baby, but I also do understand that in some cases,
formula is fine. A healthy baby is what everyone wants and strives for!

I think you might be right about the pumping though, it might not be
for me unless I am "full".

I can barely get a letdown from a pump lately. Since DD2. I can pump when
I get that extreme full feeling, but I seem to pump off the first bit and
don't really have much of a letdown. If DD2 is feeding, I get letdown like
there's no tomorrow. She's constantly suck-swallowing.

I am surprised at how much stronger he is nursing than what he was a
week and a half ago. When I went to fully pumping, the pump was
stronger than him at half strength.

Well, if he was a bit early and had some issues with his sucking or latch,
but now he's doing better, that's fantastic. Breastfeeding is something
that both a mother AND baby need to learn how to do and work together to be
successful! Of course, for some, it comes as natural as can be, but for
others, it definitely is a learning experience from beginning to the end!

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Apr 22, 8:21 am, Irrational Number wrote:
wrote:

Sorry my son was born at 5 lbs 12 ozs and lost to 4 lbs 11 ozs in 5
days.

First of all, it takes up to two weeks to regain
to birth weight. I think your son did do that.

to move to complete breast milk in about 2 weeks.

Excellent.

He weighed 9 lbs 3
ozs one week ago.

Wow, so in 2 months, he almost doubled his weight.
He is doing awesome.

Weight gain on the breast is good, only if he is
nursing all the time. I mean all the time with maybe 2 hours off
during day given at 30 minute times and a 6 hour stretch at night.

This is normal. Repeat after me, what your baby
is doing is normal. Infants are supposed to
nurse all the time. Yes, normal. Got that?

Pillbug nursed for 45 minutes per hour, every
hour, during the daytime. He went about 3 hours
at night. Rocky was latched on almost constantly
in the first few weeks, then went to cluster feeding,
where he nursed from 5pm to 9pm straight (well, okay,
I got 5-minute breaks here and there).

Any
other time, we were feeding. I am lucking to work for myself, but
still need time during the day to work.

The reason new mothers need their village is that
nursing takes up so much time initially. I'm sorry
that you have to work so soon after giving birth.

I have just never felt as though there was much milk. Even at times
when most talk about engorgement and leaking, I never seemed to have
any firmness to the breast at all.

That's fine. You don't have to ever feel engorgement.
Consider yourself lucky that you don't have to spend
a fortune on bra pads.

I can feel the milk now but only 4
hours after pumping and sometimes up to 8

Now, it seems to me you have great supply. Baby is
gaining weight well and he is doing this by nursing
exclusively. You do NOT have to pump. Unless you
are building up a freezer stash, stop pumping now.
Give yourself a break.

Since he nursed all day, my breast got used to slowly producing milk.
I need to speed that milk production up.

No, you do not need to "speed ... production up".
You are doing fine.

If I could never get 4 ounces off both (2 oz each) breast with 20
minutes at each breast(double pump), then I would say that maybe I
could not pump.

When women pump in addition to nursing, getting 1 oz.
is average. When pumping instead of nursing (such as
at work), 3 oz. is average. You are pumping in
addition to nursing and getting 4 oz. That is
extremely good supply.

But, I can when the breast get firm. I also can get
close to the same production from a manual pump (it just causes my
arms to hurt).

Stop pumping. You're fine. Stop pumping.

If you want to create a freezer stash, then pump
once a day and freeze that milk. Otherwise, stop
pumping. Don't stress. Give yourself some extra
free time.

Baby is doing great. Stop pumping.

-- Anita --

Thanks Anita for making me feel a little better. The only thing is
since he was feeding so much I thought that he was not getting enough.
I went to bottle feeding but pumping the breastmilk and limited
formula. He is feeding every 2 hours and taking 4 to 5 ounces. I was
trying to pump and get as much as he needed to fill the bottles. After
a week and a half break, last night after posting and xkatx responded,
I put him back on the breast. He took it with no problems and is
actually stronger feeding that he used to be. I guess that is coming
with him getting bigger. I think maybe I was expecting myself to do
much more than what is possible.
I will put him back on the breast when not working. I do need to try
and pump to meet his demands while I work. Every formula I have tried
him on he throws it up after a couple of bottles.

My boys were both like that. I had tried a bit of formula to supplement
between feeding. I was young, and I really didn't know what I was doing. I
didn't have much support, other than my ped who is very supportive of
breastfeeding and my mother who breastfed both my brothers and I. Other
than that, it's been ages since my grandmother breastfed, as my mom is the
youngest of her 4 children, and at the time, my mom was in her mid-40s when
my kids came along. It was still about 10 years earlier that my mom was
nursing my youngest brother when my kids were born. Her sisters did not
breast feed, so I really didn't have any support other than my mom. No
friends with children, and if they did, they didn't nurse either.
I gave a bit of formula to supplement or for the times when I was away and
would need bottles. My boys both had big reactions and would throw up and
get very gassy, uncomfortable, cranky. This would only happen if given
bottles of formula. I also had issues with both boys when I tried them on
regular homo cow's milk. I do not remember what age I had first tried them
on, but it would have probably been a little bit after they turned 1. DS2
weaned himself from morning/night feedings at about 18ish months, IIRC, but
did have some cow's milk during the day, along with EBM in a cup. I had
nearly projectile vomiting with the first time or two of cow's milk, and I
rushed to the ped's office in a hurry, not knowing what to do or what was
going on (again, we were both young and neither of us knew what we were
doing!) Ped said try the milk again in about a month, and sure enough, it
was fine. The vomiting with formula, however, didn't stop, so formula was
cut out instead. It just seemed so hard on their stomachs, and obviously it
was.
DD1, OTOH, was nursed as well. She started to rapidly lose weight around 5
or 6 months. Nursing was not going very well at all, and pumping,
medication, fenugreek - you name it - was not helping. I eventually gave in
when her lack of weight gain and fairly rapid weight loss became a major
concern to me, and I tried her on formula. She took the bottle like she
knew exactly what she was doing and had no reaction at all. She took it
fine and didn't seem to be bothered by it. Her weight gain became
fantastic, so it does seem that whatever works for you and baby is obviously
best. Each baby is definitely different, and it definitely does seem to be
that babies that are used to breast milk can sometimes find formula to be
too harsh for what their small tummies are used to!

wrote:
The only thing is
since he was feeding so much I thought that he was not getting enough.

That's the problem with us being about two
generations away from when humans all
breastfed. We don't know what "natural" is
when it comes to breastfeeding. Baby is
supposed to feed a lot in the beginning!

Enjoy your baby. It sounds like you and he
are doing great.

-- Anita --

That's the problem with us being about two
generations away from when humans all
breastfed. We don't know what "natural" is
when it comes to breastfeeding. Baby is
supposed to feed a lot in the beginning!

I'm not sure that's entirely true, both my husband and I come from families
where no generation was formula fed, yet we didn't expect that, at least not
beyond the first couple of weeks. All babies are different, my 2nd did not
feed anywhere near all the time, had she been 1st, I'd have been even more
surprised at my 1st feeding constantly. Many of my friends have sucessfully
breastfed and their babies have not fed all the time.

Anne

Anne Rogers wrote:

That's the problem with us being about two
generations away from when humans all
breastfed. We don't know what "natural" is
when it comes to breastfeeding. Baby is
supposed to feed a lot in the beginning!

I'm not sure that's entirely true, both my husband and I come from families
where no generation was formula fed, yet we didn't expect that, at least not
beyond the first couple of weeks. All babies are different, my 2nd did not
feed anywhere near all the time, had she been 1st, I'd have been even more
surprised at my 1st feeding constantly. Many of my friends have sucessfully
breastfed and their babies have not fed all the time.

I suppose "all the time" is an exaggeration.
However, it is true that all of my friends
(and I) expected that babies would feed
once every 3-4 hours (which is a formula-fed
"schedule"), and I don't find that true of
breastfed babies at all!

-- Anita --

I suppose "all the time" is an exaggeration.
However, it is true that all of my friends
(and I) expected that babies would feed
once every 3-4 hours (which is a formula-fed
"schedule"), and I don't find that true of
breastfed babies at all!

that's true, but that extreme was thankfully not my expectation, I was
certainly aware of the 8-12 feeds in 24hrs, which then had me worried when
my first initially only fed 6 times - he was jaundiced and picked up to 12+
fairly quickly, he genuinely was an all the time feeder. My 2nd I think may
have hit 8 in the first week, but it dwindled fast after that - but she
always had great weight gain, mostly on 5 feeds and sleeping through the
night, she fed to 18mths.

Anne