school supplies!

toypup wrote:


"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
toypup wrote:


"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
Budgets often don't work that way, especially in
a bigger school system. It's unlikely that they'd be able
to transfer monies between payroll and much of anything
else. Plus, if they don't have the money to maintain the
instruments, they won't be useful for long.

When I was a kid (and we were quite poor, the school was gang
infested, etc.) we either borrowed the instruments from school or
bought our own, if we could afford it. Unless the instruments broke
down,

But the point is that the instruments *do* break
down, and need regular maintenance. It's not all just
the little things like the everyday supplies. And there
are the instruments that aren't assigned to an individual
child (like most of the percussion instruments).

Yes, they do break, but it's a mighty poorly made instrument that would
break its first year of use,

Methinks you have not dealt with instruments in use by
schoolchildren in this sort of setting ;-) They won't all require
repair work int the first year, but enough will that there will be
costs associated, and there's regular maintenance that's needed
even when there aren't repairs to be made, especially with
woodwinds.

so you get at least an entire year's worth
of a class out of it. Most all of them last much longer than that. I
had my secondhand violin for many years without maintenance of any sort
besides strings.

Then you were lucky. Also, different instruments have
different profiles in terms of what sort of maintenance is
needed when.

It finally disintegrated in my closet when I checked
it last, but a secondhand cheapo violin would have held those students
right on through college without replacing anything more than rosin and
strings.

I understand that some things cost more to have than not, but if the
school had a music program or wanted a music program to begin with, then
instruments are a necessity, whether they are donated or bought by the
school. Wouldn't the school prefer them donated? If they already had
some, they could use the donated ones as backup for when the other ones
break down.

Again, there is no difference between not having an instrument
and having an instrument not in playable condition, in practical terms
anyway.

Best wishes,
Ericka

In article , Michelle J. Haines says...

Banty wrote:

And how does she think they're copping attitudes "BECAUSE" they're
ex-homeschoolers, if she hadn't been making it clear to all and sundry that
they're ex-homeschoolers. Kids transfer in from all kinds of places and
situations. Why does she think that is at the top of their minds?

Well, first, in the kids first school, in Chugwater, it's a school of 76
kids from kindergarten to 12th grade. Of course they knew where we came
from, they knew us all beforehand.

As for Southeast, several of the teachers knew Katrina beforehand,
because when she would visit my MIL, my MIL would take her to school
with her. (My MIL was the school councillor there.) Most of this
county was either taught by my MIL or related to my FIL or both.

And, tbh, I'm not saying it's specifically BECAUSE we're homeschoolers,
but more because as a result of that, we don't have a big awe of
teachers in general. (Probably being related to a bunch of teachers
helps, too.) The first grade teacher we often had clashes with...You
might remember the "Give out everyone's information with no permission"
argument, Banty?...Even my mother-in-law said she's an extremely
abrasive woman who thinks she could always get her way...it's just with
most parents, she usually gets her way. Thank god she retired.

Issues we have had with Southeast since we've gotten he (I mentioned
the issue with the music teacher earlier)

A teachers aide was was witnessed calling a child stupid for not taking
his coat off fast enough, told our son to stop acting like a baby, and
continually incorrectly corrects children in reading groups...yet when
children or parents comment, are told "Well, you just have to understand
that's how she is."

This whole "parent/school contract" like its the school's business how
we choose to parent the children or that it actually changes their legal
responsibilities. Basically it's a piece of paper that's a platitude to
make someone feel warm fuzzies about themselves that they're Doing
Something (tm).

A library issue, which was actually easily correct: Katrina was bored
in the library, and frustrated with being told she could only read
certain books. My husband went into the school, asked the librarian
what the deal was, and was told that some parents fussed at her because
children brought home "inappropriate" books. He told her that Katrina
was to have free access to the library and if she ever brought home
something inappropriate, we'd deal with it at home. She said, "Well,
that's refreshing." and that worked out just fine.

In a school and state known for it's funding of and handling of special
education issues, it took..um...8 months from our request for an
evaluation to them getting it done. And apparently, even though there's
a 50+ plus gap between our son's highest and lowest IQ scores, and a 4
grade drop from his highest achievement levels to his lowest, because
the lowest were JUST at grade level, well...that's not a problem they
see as a concern or can do anything about.

As for why we switched from homeschooling to public schooling despite my
"attitude". Well, partly it was because my oldest daughter and I were
having a lot of struggling over some things, because she often just
didn't want to do things. Now she comes to me and says stuff like, "I
hated it when you made me do Saxon math, but wow, compared to Everyday
math that we have to do in school, I liked Saxon math so much better!"
Part of it was because half the time when she and I would get really
settled into lessons, my pager would go off and there went three hours
of the day. And part of it is because I started school, and if you can
take a paramedic class, an A&P class, and algebra class, and do clinical
hours in five different towns, the closest of which is an hour drive
away (so's the school, btw) and still have time to homeschool...you are
a better woman than I am.

See, I don't think teachers are perfect, or schools are perfect, or that parents
have complaints, it's necessarily that they're complainers. But sometimes I
make a judgement based on how many such issues people have and how they describe
them What would you have me think after having read the below - -


However, my husband did ask me to start homeschooling our youngest again
asap, because he wants her to know how to read before she turns five,
because he plans to have a tussle with the principal about the fact that
the principal will want to redshirt her (cross thread alert again) and
my husband is saying "no way that's gonna work, so if he insists on it,
then we'll just homeschol her until he lets her in and he can put her in
the second grade" Ha.

I mean, come on, this kind of thing about showing up the school and actually
planning to have a tussle, anticipating (why?) that the principal would want to
redshirt your girl who isn't even at school yet. If this ain't a chip on the
shoulder, I don't know what is.

I dont' think either teachers *or* parents are perfect and there is the good and
bad on both sides, and areas where the best intentions and most ardent efforts
won't always please because there are somewhat different interests and
viewpoints. But nothing will come to much good if you're looking for trouble.

Banty

"Donna Metler" wrote in message
...
If you want to avoid major repairs down the line, you need to do
maintenance regularly, just like on your car.

If the instruments are free and you don't have the money to do maintenance,
you can at least have that many free years of use of a free instrument
before it breaks down.

And yes, that adds up. A person who only
uses an instrument for 2-3 years might not notice, but instruments in a
school setting usually have to last 10 years or more. You're saying "no
repairs but strings" on a violin. Having a violin restrung and set up to
MENC standards for a beginning student, which is what is needed if you
want an instrument which will be playable by a beginner who can't do their
own minor adjustments (and no, a band director who has nearly 100 students
in a beginning instrumental class can't do those adjustments either,
because that band director already HAS a full-time job teaching music to
everyone else in the school!) is about $75 a year.

Well, our strings class was never 100 students. Orchestra was never all
that popular compared to band. We all had to adjust our own strings.

And no, a secondhand, cheapo violin would
not get a child through high school and college on only rosin and strings.
Number 1, the quality of the instrument wouldn't be such to allow it.

I only mean that it wouldn't break down for many years.

College students, and even serious high school players, need an
intermediate or professional level instrument.

Who cares? This is for beginning students.

Bow hairs on violins should also be replaced yearly.

Mine wasn't and it's still all there 30 years later. All of my music
teachers have always commented on it year after year that is was a beautiful
bow.

In this case, the school did not have a band program. It had a general
music program, parents who wanted a band program because of all the
research indicating that this was a good idea, and a teacher hired for
general music who was qualified to teach band as well. The opportunity
came up for several schools to get new instrumental music programs-and
they had to be NEW programs, not existing ones. Unfortunately, while the
district and the companies involved got a ton of good press from making
this big donation to several low income schools, they'd neglected to
provide anything else.

Would the band program have ever existed without instruments? Would it have
been better to not get the instruments then you wouldn't have to worry about
everything else?

I see what you are saying on some level, but the instruments were not
completely useless and unwanted. The instruments were donated -- wanted and
needed by the parents and school. Great! Now, even for poor parents and
schools, everything in life cannot be free. So, you've got the instruments
you wanted, now find a way to make up the rest. High school students can
work for it. It may need another fundraiser or solicitations for donations.
Parents can chip in. At any rate, I did go to schools where everyone was
short of money and we managed.

"toypup" wrote in message
...


"Donna Metler" wrote in message
...
If you want to avoid major repairs down the line, you need to do
maintenance regularly, just like on your car.

If the instruments are free and you don't have the money to do
maintenance, you can at least have that many free years of use of a free
instrument before it breaks down.

And yes, that adds up. A person who only
uses an instrument for 2-3 years might not notice, but instruments in a
school setting usually have to last 10 years or more. You're saying "no
repairs but strings" on a violin. Having a violin restrung and set up to
MENC standards for a beginning student, which is what is needed if you
want an instrument which will be playable by a beginner who can't do
their own minor adjustments (and no, a band director who has nearly 100
students in a beginning instrumental class can't do those adjustments
either, because that band director already HAS a full-time job teaching
music to everyone else in the school!) is about $75 a year.

Well, our strings class was never 100 students. Orchestra was never all
that popular compared to band. We all had to adjust our own strings.

And no, a secondhand, cheapo violin would
not get a child through high school and college on only rosin and
strings. Number 1, the quality of the instrument wouldn't be such to
allow it.

Well my "cheepo" (cost £20 in 1987) at least third hand violin lasted me
nearly 10 years on just rosin, strings and one bridge replacement. It used
to amuse my music teacher because it didn't lose it's tuning much, I
remember being away for a month and not playing it in this time and she said
"this time you really will need to tune it," and I picked it up and one
string needed more than a tweak. My brothers violin otoh was middle
expensive and it lost tuning over the course of him playing it. (not that he
noticed-he was tone deaf-I'll leave it to your imagination!)
If I'd been really going somewhere with playing it then probably I'd have
needed a better quality, but that's always going to be the case unless you
start with one too good for a beginner to be worth investing in.
My Grandad had been a very good violin player in his time and he used to
check my violin from time to time, he'd have loved to find something he
could alter on it, but he only did when the bridge needed replacing.
Debbie.

Anne Rogers wrote:

That's probably another reason to specify brand. If a lot of parents buy
off-brands for something where it matters like Crayons, then once the
kids
discover the difference the good ones will be in demand and
dissappear. If
everyone has Crayola, everyone can use the Crayolas.

but at least a box of crayola isn't 18 euros, a euro is worth more than
a dollar now, but I don't know exactly how much more, but it makes that
box around 25 dollars, I think I payed 3 something dollars for crayola
last night, which is quite a difference and the problem is, once to
start along the line of must have a particular type, it can go the wrong
way, either specify a cheap type to include everyone or an expensive
type to give the kids the best.

So maybe the best thing would be for the teacher to mention on the
supply list that the supplies are going to be pooled and that you won't
necessarily get the same ones back, and then let parents decide for
themselves what they want to spend on something their child might or
might not get to use.


All the best,

Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 10:18:08 -0600, "Michelle J. Haines"
wrote:

However, my husband did ask me to start homeschooling our youngest again
asap, because he wants her to know how to read before she turns five,
because he plans to have a tussle with the principal about the fact that
the principal will want to redshirt her (cross thread alert again) and
my husband is saying "no way that's gonna work, so if he insists on it,
then we'll just homeschol her until he lets her in and he can put her in
the second grade" Ha.

Why the rush to get a child reading *before* she is 5? Reading is
great, but even very bright kids may not be ready to read early.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

I like the idea of buying before you need the items...I shopping a days or a weeks before things was needed...to avoid cramming and I can choose better because I have lots of time for it...