| Teen faces expulsion and felony for loaning girlfriend medicine

"Donna Metler" wrote in message
. ..

"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...
The mother of the girl should sue for medical neglect on the part of
the school, for withholding/delaying inhaler in an asthma attack.

The person who committed medical neglect is the one who neglected to
provide
the girl with her own inhaler to keep on her person. The school is not
required to provide prescription medication.

And refuse to drop the case.

This sort of case shows why Zero Tolerance is unconstitutional.

The two kids inhalers are interchangeable.
But, the prescriptions are not.

Laws are supposed to be for the protection of the people, not for the
legal convenience of the government to dictate terms to people.

To delay an inhaler only because of some stupid robotic
bureaucratic "Zero Tolerance" construct is reprehensible.

Which is why children who need rescue medication are allowed to keep their
own prescription on hand-not use someone else's.
Next they'll let people DIE rather than give them an
emergency tracheotomy. Neater paperwork.

Much easier to check the boxes on a death certificate
than to argue that Zero Tolerance is stupid.

(Hands in air) "Oh Well, her asthma killed her."
If my child has life threatening athsma, you'd better believe that I'm
going
to make sure she has an inhaler on her person, that there's one stored at
the school in the nurse's office, and, if she's in a grade level where
she's
with one teacher most of the time, that there's one in the teacher's desk,
labeled for her.

I'm not going to assume there is a child in the next desk who uses the
same
prescription-nor would I expect the teacher to whip out my daughters
inhaler
and give it to another child.



Hmm.. have you ever lost your car keys? Left you wallet or purse at home?
Can't find your check book?
Oh, of course not... we live in a perfect world, right?

Even the routine asprin is illegal... which, if I understand correctly.. is
good for most everything, yet in school it's an illegal drug. Let's use
some common sense instead of stupid law and apply intent instead of zero
tolerance.

We are considered a stupid people being ruled by those even more so.

bobb

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Joni
Rathbun says...


I wonder if there are any protections provided by Good Sam laws. I
understand the legal issues but a good question has been asked:
What if it had been a life or death situation?



Good Samaritan laws require that you stay within your training.

Banty


It's ironic that the average citizen is immune generally from administering
first aid.. and that's what this girl was doing. Guess these laws don't
apply to kids.

bobb

"Joni Rathbun" wrote in message
...

On 9 Oct 2003, Banty wrote:

In article ,
Joni
Rathbun says...


I wonder if there are any protections provided by Good Sam laws. I
understand the legal issues but a good question has been asked:
What if it had been a life or death situation?



Good Samaritan laws require that you stay within your training.


Hmm. I'm not quite sure how to interpret that. The Good Samaritan
laws I'm familiar with are meant to provide some protection to
those who voluntarily render aid in good faith, including lay
people who may have no particular training. And, I believe,
some states have laws that make it an offense to NOT render
aid.


I was once told to take red cross training in first aid but don't accept
their registration. Doing so would exempt you from the Good Samaritan laws
and become subject to law suits.

You make a good point... I beleive one is not legally oblidged to
volunteer first aid but if called upon to assist there is no right of
refusal.

bobb

bobb

Donna Metler wrote:

"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...
The mother of the girl should sue for medical neglect on the part of
the school, for withholding/delaying inhaler in an asthma attack.

The person who committed medical neglect is the one who neglected to provide
the girl with her own inhaler to keep on her person. The school is not
required to provide prescription medication.

Not only are schools not required to provide prescription medication, schools
cannot legally administer prescription medication without a note from a
physician and the child's medication in original packaging.

(Hands in air) "Oh Well, her asthma killed her."
If my child has life threatening athsma, you'd better believe that I'm going
to make sure she has an inhaler on her person, that there's one stored at
the school in the nurse's office, and, if she's in a grade level where she's
with one teacher most of the time, that there's one in the teacher's desk,
labeled for her.

I would do the same thing!

I'm not going to assume there is a child in the next desk who uses the same
prescription-nor would I expect the teacher to whip out my daughters inhaler
and give it to another child.

How ridiculous this is. Inhaler prescriptions are different. I wonder how
Greg would have responded if the child had died from a reaction to an inhaler
that was not prescribed for the child.

LaVonne

Greg wrote
The mother of the girl should sue for medical neglect
on the part of the school, for withholding/delaying
inhaler in an asthma attack.

Donna Metler wrote
The person who committed medical neglect is the one
who neglected to provide the girl with her own
inhaler to keep on her person. The school is not
required to provide prescription medication.

Greg wrote
And if she forgets she must DIE or choke enough
that she needs an ambulance or emergency tracheotomy?
How is that not medical neglect of a child?

LaVonne wrote
Not only are schools not required to provide
prescription medication, schools cannot legally
administer prescription medication without a note
from a physician and the child's medication
in original packaging.

Greg wrote (Sarcasm about bureaucratic mindset)
(Hands in air) "Oh Well, her asthma killed her."

Donna Metler wrote
If my child has life threatening athsma, you'd better
believe that I'm going to make sure she has an inhaler
on her person, that there's one stored at the school
in the nurse's office, and, if she's in a grade level
where she's with one teacher most of the time, that
there's one in the teacher's desk, labeled for her.

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.
What makes you think it's LEGAL to keep prescription
medication in the teachers desk in a school?

LaVonne wrote
I would do the same thing!

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.
When you get really happy about "letter of the law"
I just love to see you hoisted by your own petard.

It just goes to show that the pitfall traps of
zero-tolerance can even trip up an ""expert"".

Donna Metler wrote
I'm not going to assume there is a child in the
next desk who uses the same prescription-nor would
I expect the teacher to whip out my daughters inhaler
and give it to another child.

Not even when somebody's choking?
Do you know HOW to do an emergency tracheotomy
or CPR or is it much too "icky"?

Both mothers, both kids, nurse and probably the teacher
all knew that their medications were identical.

The facts should always trump "what if"'s.
Thinking should always trump blind obedience to
one-size-fits-all Orwellian application of law.
(Reckless disregard for "the spirit of the law")

LaVonne said
How ridiculous this is. Inhaler prescriptions
are different. I wonder how Greg would have
responded if the child had died from a reaction
to an inhaler that was not prescribed for the child.

That would involve thinking and fact checking.
Try thinking OUTSIDE the bureaucracy, LaVonne.

In regard to the "letter of the law" I again ask you
to read up on Judge Roland Friesler. His history
is all about impeccable legal logic.

Greg wrote
The mother of the girl should sue for medical neglect
on the part of the school, for withholding/delaying
inhaler in an asthma attack.

Donna Metler wrote
The person who committed medical neglect is the one
who neglected to provide the girl with her own
inhaler to keep on her person. The school is not
required to provide prescription medication.

Greg wrote
And if she forgets she must DIE or choke enough
that she needs an ambulance or emergency tracheotomy?
How is that not medical neglect of a child?

LaVonne wrote
Not only are schools not required to provide
prescription medication, schools cannot legally
administer prescription medication without a note
from a physician and the child's medication
in original packaging.

Greg wrote (Sarcasm about bureaucratic mindset)
(Hands in air) "Oh Well, her asthma killed her."

Donna Metler wrote
If my child has life threatening athsma, you'd better
believe that I'm going to make sure she has an inhaler
on her person, that there's one stored at the school
in the nurse's office, and, if she's in a grade level
where she's with one teacher most of the time, that
there's one in the teacher's desk, labeled for her.

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.
What makes you think it's LEGAL to keep prescription
medication in the teachers desk in a school?

LaVonne wrote
I would do the same thing!

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.
When you get really happy about "letter of the law"
I just love to see you hoisted by your own petard.

It just goes to show that the pitfall traps of
zero-tolerance can even trip up an ""expert"".

Donna Metler wrote
I'm not going to assume there is a child in the
next desk who uses the same prescription-nor would
I expect the teacher to whip out my daughters inhaler
and give it to another child.

Not even when somebody's choking?
Do you know HOW to do an emergency tracheotomy
or CPR or is it much too "icky"?

Both mothers, both kids, nurse and probably the teacher
all knew that their medications were identical.

The facts should always trump "what if"'s.
Thinking should always trump blind obedience to
one-size-fits-all Orwellian application of law.
(Reckless disregard for "the spirit of the law")

LaVonne said
How ridiculous this is. Inhaler prescriptions
are different. I wonder how Greg would have
responded if the child had died from a reaction
to an inhaler that was not prescribed for the child.

That would involve thinking and fact checking.
Try thinking OUTSIDE the bureaucracy, LaVonne.

In regard to the "letter of the law" I again ask you
to read up on Judge Roland Friesler. His history
is all about impeccable legal logic.

Greg wrote
The mother of the girl should sue for medical neglect
on the part of the school, for withholding/delaying
inhaler in an asthma attack.

Donna Metler wrote
The person who committed medical neglect is the one
who neglected to provide the girl with her own
inhaler to keep on her person. The school is not
required to provide prescription medication.

Greg wrote
And if she forgets she must DIE or choke enough
that she needs an ambulance or emergency tracheotomy?
How is that not medical neglect of a child?

LaVonne wrote
Not only are schools not required to provide
prescription medication, schools cannot legally
administer prescription medication without a note
from a physician and the child's medication
in original packaging.

Greg wrote (Sarcasm about bureaucratic mindset)
(Hands in air) "Oh Well, her asthma killed her."

Donna Metler wrote
If my child has life threatening athsma, you'd better
believe that I'm going to make sure she has an inhaler
on her person, that there's one stored at the school
in the nurse's office, and, if she's in a grade level
where she's with one teacher most of the time, that
there's one in the teacher's desk, labeled for her.

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.
What makes you think it's LEGAL to keep prescription
medication in the teachers desk in a school?

LaVonne wrote
I would do the same thing!

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.
When you get really happy about "letter of the law"
I just love to see you hoisted by your own petard.

It just goes to show that the pitfall traps of
zero-tolerance can even trip up an ""expert"".

Donna Metler wrote
I'm not going to assume there is a child in the
next desk who uses the same prescription-nor would
I expect the teacher to whip out my daughters inhaler
and give it to another child.

Not even when somebody's choking?
Do you know HOW to do an emergency tracheotomy
or CPR or is it much too "icky"?

Both mothers, both kids, nurse and probably the teacher
all knew that their medications were identical.

The facts should always trump "what if"'s.
Thinking should always trump blind obedience to
one-size-fits-all Orwellian application of law.
(Reckless disregard for "the spirit of the law")

LaVonne said
How ridiculous this is. Inhaler prescriptions
are different. I wonder how Greg would have
responded if the child had died from a reaction
to an inhaler that was not prescribed for the child.

That would involve thinking and fact checking.
Try thinking OUTSIDE the bureaucracy, LaVonne.

In regard to the "letter of the law" I again ask you
to read up on Judge Roland Friesler. His history
is all about impeccable legal logic.

Greg wrote
The mother of the girl should sue for medical neglect
on the part of the school, for withholding/delaying
inhaler in an asthma attack.

Donna Metler wrote
The person who committed medical neglect is the one
who neglected to provide the girl with her own
inhaler to keep on her person. The school is not
required to provide prescription medication.

Greg wrote
And if she forgets she must DIE or choke enough
that she needs an ambulance or emergency tracheotomy?
How is that not medical neglect of a child?

LaVonne wrote
Not only are schools not required to provide
prescription medication, schools cannot legally
administer prescription medication without a note
from a physician and the child's medication
in original packaging.

Greg wrote (Sarcasm about bureaucratic mindset)
(Hands in air) "Oh Well, her asthma killed her."

Donna Metler wrote
If my child has life threatening athsma, you'd better
believe that I'm going to make sure she has an inhaler
on her person, that there's one stored at the school
in the nurse's office, and, if she's in a grade level
where she's with one teacher most of the time, that
there's one in the teacher's desk, labeled for her.

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.
What makes you think it's LEGAL to keep prescription
medication in the teachers desk in a school?

LaVonne wrote
I would do the same thing!

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.
When you get really happy about "letter of the law"
I just love to see you hoisted by your own petard.

It just goes to show that the pitfall traps of
zero-tolerance can even trip up an ""expert"".

Donna Metler wrote
I'm not going to assume there is a child in the
next desk who uses the same prescription-nor would
I expect the teacher to whip out my daughters inhaler
and give it to another child.

Not even when somebody's choking?
Do you know HOW to do an emergency tracheotomy
or CPR or is it much too "icky"?

Both mothers, both kids, nurse and probably the teacher
all knew that their medications were identical.

The facts should always trump "what if"'s.
Thinking should always trump blind obedience to
one-size-fits-all Orwellian application of law.
(Reckless disregard for "the spirit of the law")

LaVonne said
How ridiculous this is. Inhaler prescriptions
are different. I wonder how Greg would have
responded if the child had died from a reaction
to an inhaler that was not prescribed for the child.

That would involve thinking and fact checking.
Try thinking OUTSIDE the bureaucracy, LaVonne.

In regard to the "letter of the law" I again ask you
to read up on Judge Roland Friesler. His history
is all about impeccable legal logic.

On 13 Oct 2003 01:21:54 -0700, (Greg Hanson)
wrote:

Greg wrote
The mother of the girl should sue for medical neglect
on the part of the school, for withholding/delaying
inhaler in an asthma attack.

Donna Metler wrote
The person who committed medical neglect is the one
who neglected to provide the girl with her own
inhaler to keep on her person. The school is not
required to provide prescription medication.

Greg wrote
And if she forgets she must DIE or choke enough
that she needs an ambulance or emergency tracheotomy?
How is that not medical neglect of a child?

It sure isn't if the nurse or others call for an EMT wagon, and
administer any first aid available to choking victims. I'm not going
to list any here for asthma, but nurses know them, or better.

And bottled gaseous O2 if pretty common in such settings.

LaVonne wrote
Not only are schools not required to provide
prescription medication, schools cannot legally
administer prescription medication without a note
from a physician and the child's medication
in original packaging.

Greg wrote (Sarcasm about bureaucratic mindset)
(Hands in air) "Oh Well, her asthma killed her."

Donna Metler wrote
If my child has life threatening athsma, you'd better
believe that I'm going to make sure she has an inhaler
on her person, that there's one stored at the school
in the nurse's office, and, if she's in a grade level
where she's with one teacher most of the time, that
there's one in the teacher's desk, labeled for her.

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.

No it's not.

What makes you think it's LEGAL to keep prescription
medication in the teachers desk in a school?

I can give my prescription medication to anyone to hold for me. It is
illegal from them to use it for ANY PURPOSE other than to adminster to
me. It is illegal for me to let them with my knowledge and permission.

But it's not illegal for the teacher to hold. She has the legal status
as my representative, in loco parentis, do act on my behalf pertaining
to my child.

Teach better lock the drawer though or place it in her locked little
pin money box.... all teacher had that capacity when I was a kid and I
assume still get a lockable desk or container these days.


LaVonne wrote
I would do the same thing!

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.

What an overripe pile of bull****.

When you get really happy about "letter of the law"
I just love to see you hoisted by your own petard.

It is not illegal to assign parental rights over to another for
specific instances such as child safety concerns regarding
medications. Teachers administer them as a matter of course unless
they are of a kind that could have adverse reactions, then the duty
devolves to the school nurse.

It just goes to show that the pitfall traps of
zero-tolerance can even trip up an ""expert"".

Just goes to show you been burning horse**** in the hookah far to much
these days. Time to gather up the can harvest and purchase some "good
****" don't yah think?

Donna Metler wrote
I'm not going to assume there is a child in the
next desk who uses the same prescription-nor would
I expect the teacher to whip out my daughters inhaler
and give it to another child.

Not even when somebody's choking?

No, note even when somebody is in dire distress.

Do you know HOW to do an emergency tracheotomy
or CPR or is it much too "icky"?

Yes, and yes, and no. I've even done mouth to mouth on valuable
livestock and pets. I notice my wife avoided kissing me for a few days
afterward, well, when it wasn't her cat...then she kissed right after
I brought the nasty little critter back from certain death.

Both mothers, both kids, nurse and probably the teacher
all knew that their medications were identical.

Aha, now how would they "know" that? The knew the prescriptions were
the same, they did not know if they had been recently changed, they
did not know if the inhalers were intact during the many days the
children had them, and unfilled with anything else. They did not know
the children had not let them out of their possession.

Tragedies do happen when things are taken on trust instead of proof.
Go ask a nurse how she deals with drug delivery, and what happens to
drugs that get out of her personal direct control for a time....

People, including kid people, do strange things with drugs and
dispensers. I want to know where that girls inhaler was and why.

The facts should always trump "what if"'s.

And you threw in speculation unsupported by the known facts. Inhalers
floating around with kids are not secure devices.

Thinking should always trump blind obedience to
one-size-fits-all Orwellian application of law.
(Reckless disregard for "the spirit of the law")

Then you should try it.


LaVonne said
How ridiculous this is. Inhaler prescriptions
are different. I wonder how Greg would have
responded if the child had died from a reaction
to an inhaler that was not prescribed for the child.

That would involve thinking and fact checking.
Try thinking OUTSIDE the bureaucracy, LaVonne.

You cannot do an analysis on an inhaler content in seconds or even
minutes. Anything could have been in that inhaler. Kids play with such
things, even drop them into unlikely places and in a panic pull them
out and dry them off for fear of catching hell for wasting valuable
meds. Kids have to be careful taugt by their docs and their nurses how
to treat prescription and you can bet they tell them NEVER give our
drugs to another person under any circumstances.

In regard to the "letter of the law" I again ask you
to read up on Judge Roland Friesler. His history
is all about impeccable legal logic.

He wouldn't for a moment argue the point here that someone should have
taken an inhaler from one person and given it to another, not unless
the druggist just handed it over and declared it was an exact
duplicate in compound and doseage to the other persons...and even then
you'd probably have to chance being charged.

I know you have real problem with rules there, towelboy, but rules are
our little friends.

They keep that damn honking monster pickup from smashing our little
Honda Civic at the cross streets...even if there is an emergency...by
the way, that's MY monster truck that just smashed your little beater
into tin foil.

Tah. Kane

"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...
Greg wrote
The mother of the girl should sue for medical neglect
on the part of the school, for withholding/delaying
inhaler in an asthma attack.

Donna Metler wrote
The person who committed medical neglect is the one
who neglected to provide the girl with her own
inhaler to keep on her person. The school is not
required to provide prescription medication.

Greg wrote
And if she forgets she must DIE or choke enough
that she needs an ambulance or emergency tracheotomy?
How is that not medical neglect of a child?

LaVonne wrote
Not only are schools not required to provide
prescription medication, schools cannot legally
administer prescription medication without a note
from a physician and the child's medication
in original packaging.

Greg wrote (Sarcasm about bureaucratic mindset)
(Hands in air) "Oh Well, her asthma killed her."

Donna Metler wrote
If my child has life threatening athsma, you'd better
believe that I'm going to make sure she has an inhaler
on her person, that there's one stored at the school
in the nurse's office, and, if she's in a grade level
where she's with one teacher most of the time, that
there's one in the teacher's desk, labeled for her.

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.
What makes you think it's LEGAL to keep prescription
medication in the teachers desk in a school?

WRONG-see, I teach in a public school.
Rescue medications are allowed to be kept on a child's person, and if the
child is too young to keep up with them, the TEACHER is required to do so. I
have had years where I had a fanny pack which I got from the office every
morning and wore all day, which contained several children's rescue meds,
and I have had to be trained in some cases to administer these meds to young
children.

No law requires that a child be kept away from required medications.

LaVonne wrote
I would do the same thing!

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.
When you get really happy about "letter of the law"
I just love to see you hoisted by your own petard.

It just goes to show that the pitfall traps of
zero-tolerance can even trip up an ""expert"".

Donna Metler wrote
I'm not going to assume there is a child in the
next desk who uses the same prescription-nor would
I expect the teacher to whip out my daughters inhaler
and give it to another child.

Not even when somebody's choking?
Do you know HOW to do an emergency tracheotomy
or CPR or is it much too "icky"?

Both mothers, both kids, nurse and probably the teacher
all knew that their medications were identical.

The facts should always trump "what if"'s.
Thinking should always trump blind obedience to
one-size-fits-all Orwellian application of law.
(Reckless disregard for "the spirit of the law")

LaVonne said
How ridiculous this is. Inhaler prescriptions
are different. I wonder how Greg would have
responded if the child had died from a reaction
to an inhaler that was not prescribed for the child.

That would involve thinking and fact checking.
Try thinking OUTSIDE the bureaucracy, LaVonne.

In regard to the "letter of the law" I again ask you
to read up on Judge Roland Friesler. His history
is all about impeccable legal logic.