OT religion and smacking

"Nina" wrote in message
...

For example,based on what you say about Denmark, a great many people I
know would think it
insane that the norm is for kids to be raised in daycares.

Oh yes. Oh my yes. They would bristle at the very idea that it is
*abnormal* or *undesirable* for a parent to have full-time care of the
child. But I suppose if it works for your society, then it works. It sure
wouldn't work around here.

Now....I've been frustrated with the number of people I've run into who seem
to simply assume that a) children must and will go into daycare or preschool
in order to make them ready for school, even if the mother is home all day;
that b) kids must go to kindergarten and c) that kids who do not, who are
(as we are) homeschooled, will somehow fail to be socialised properly.

I guess all those farm kids who grew up in rural areas for hundreds of years
didn't turn out to be good members of society, if these things are
necessary. I guess all those brilliant people in the past (like Abraham
Lincoln and Benjamin Franklin) who either never received any formal
schooling, or received only a few years' worth, and thereafter educated
themselves.....didn't turn out to be good members of society either.
Pththth.

As we keep saying, societies differ. And even within a society, opinions can
differ.

--angela

"Chotii" skrev i en meddelelse
...

"Clisby" wrote in message
...

We have a gun. It is kept locked away in a gun safe.

What about your nabour who doesn't? And who doesn't act responsible with
regards to his kids?

Tine, Denmark

Nina wrote:

IMO hitting a child out of frustration isn't discipline, its
"fighting". ie "I'm mad at you, so
I'm going to hit you". Spanking is a carefully measured punishment not
just striking out in
anger.

Sort of. I'm not thinking that I'm hitting because I'm mad. My thought is
that I need to show them that what they are doing is NOT OK. I get
frustrated that I haven't gotten my point across in other ways yet. If I
went with my first instince I'd spank, probably because that is how I was
raised. I don't feel that is correct but when I get totally frustrated then
I spank quickly, with out thinking it through.

I think all kids see spanking as hitting, or a bigger person physically over
powering me because they can, regardless of how we feel about it (done out
of frustration or if it is just one of our discipline tactics.) I certainly
remember being spanked (it never actually hurt) and it was always done to us
when we had pushed my mother way to far. I've never been spanked by a calm
person just meeting out a consequence/punishment. I have a hard time even
imagining it.

Just as spanking doesn't work for some kids, time-outs, removing of
privileges etc doesn't work
for some kids. Trial and error.

That is certainly true.
--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

"Tine Andersen" wrote in message
k...
"Chotii" skrev i en meddelelse
...

"Clisby" wrote in message
...

We have a gun. It is kept locked away in a gun safe.

What about your nabour who doesn't? And who doesn't act responsible with
regards to his kids?

Please, be more specific with your question? I have already explained that I
have gun-safed my children. If my children saw *his* children with a gun,
they would go screaming to an adult. They would not participate in play. In
this way, in fact, my children would make his children safer. If my
neighbor runs this risk with his children in the absence of my children,
well....this will sound cold and calloused to you, but I can't control that.
I can't control whether he buckles them into appropriate child-restraint
devices in the car, either. Or whether he drives sober. It's not that I
don't care, it's just that my responsibility does end somewhere. I see no
point in making more laws, which will merely restrict those people who are
inclined to respect laws anyway.

But, to explore this: would I knowingly send my children into a house where
I knew the children were not gun-safed, and that the parents left the guns
lying about somewhere accessible? Hell no. I would say that parent was a
funeral waiting to happen. But the fact is, I don't know those things about
*anybody* but myself. So I do what I can.

--angela

Tine Andersen wrote:
It
keeps going in my head:: what can you expect from citizens of a
country that still considers guns in private homes normal and
approves of death penalty. We considered this in-human 60 years ago
(or more).

I'm with you on the death penalty but I don't think it is going anywhere.
:-( I don't know what to do about the guns. They are everywhere. I
personally can't get to worked up about it. Possible because I live in a
place where it is very very common yet there is very little gun violence.

Hitting
children at all by anyone was forbidden 10 years ago (should have
been earlier) in the acknowledgement of hitting being humiliating and
teaching some not so wanted behavior.

You know I agree. I'm one of the people that responded in that I have
spanked my children a hand full of times. Regretted it each time.

I have never felt it necessary to hit. I have children who rage at
me, but they recognize my superiority never the less.

I absolutely do not fee it is necessary to hit or spank. I have the urge to
spank though :-( I wonder why that is. Because I've seen it? I was raised
that way? I'm not sure. If one never sees it or lives it perhaps it
doesn't ever seem like an option?

Where does hitting
of any kind fit with AP'ing?

It doesn't but not everyone here (this group) claims to be AP and there are
a lot of Americans that don't even believe in it.

Please - someone - convince me, that hitting, shooting, killing
people (by death penalty or by having guns in the house) is not the
norm amongst Americans.

Well of course not!

By the way....I don't think there is anywhere that an American would be
arrested for 1-2 open handed slaps to the butt. Almost anything else
could/would be considered abusive.

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

"Chotii" skrev i en meddelelse
...

"Tine Andersen" wrote in message
k...
"Chotii" skrev i en meddelelse
...

"Clisby" wrote in message
...

We have a gun. It is kept locked away in a gun safe.

What about your nabour who doesn't? And who doesn't act responsible with
regards to his kids?

Please, be more specific with your question?

My first fear would be knowing the nabour had a gun and wondering when his
12-yo son would use it, just because he could or because he thought it was
'cool'. That's why I like drivers licenses given out after having received
education. I can drive as cautious I will - if the other guy doesn't, I die
anyhow.

Tine, Denmark

"Tine Andersen" wrote in message
k...
"Chotii" skrev i en meddelelse
...

"Tine Andersen" wrote in message
k...
"Chotii" skrev i en meddelelse
...

"Clisby" wrote in message
...

We have a gun. It is kept locked away in a gun safe.

What about your nabour who doesn't? And who doesn't act responsible
with
regards to his kids?

Please, be more specific with your question?

My first fear would be knowing the nabour had a gun and wondering when his
12-yo son would use it, just because he could or because he thought it was
'cool'. That's why I like drivers licenses given out after having received
education. I can drive as cautious I will - if the other guy doesn't, I
die
anyhow.

This is true and sensible.

However, a license doesn't make a 16 year old wise. Lots of 16 year old
drivers kill themselves and/or their friends. As do older people. A license
is a good thing but it doesn't stop a certain number of deaths.

Did I mention I would require my children to take a gun-safety course
(either from us, or the gun range) and have supervision at all times when
handling firearms? How does this differ from the education required to
handle a 3000-lb motor vehicle?

--angela

"Nikki" wrote in message
news
Nina wrote:

IMO hitting a child out of frustration isn't discipline, its
"fighting". ie "I'm mad at you, so
I'm going to hit you". Spanking is a carefully measured punishment
not
just striking out in
anger.

Sort of. I'm not thinking that I'm hitting because I'm mad. ....
I don't feel that is correct but when I get totally frustrated then
I spank quickly, with out thinking it through.

Thats what I mean, dont hit out of anger or frustration,
In those cases, its best to just leave and take a breather.



I think all kids see spanking as hitting, or a bigger person
physically over
powering me because they can, regardless of how we feel about it
(done out
of frustration or if it is just one of our discipline tactics.) I
certainly
remember being spanked (it never actually hurt) and it was always
done to us
when we had pushed my mother way to far. I've never been spanked by
a calm
person just meeting out a consequence/punishment. I have a hard
time even
imagining it.

I have and could tell the difference. When I was spanked because I had
done something
wrong, I knew it was the consequence of my actions and it wasnt my
mother hitting me because
she was mad.
Its kinda like the differnece between someone being tried and hung and
being lynched by a mob. Or
being tried and given the death penalty as opposed to being chased
down and beaten to death.
One is clearly done out of anger and maybe as retaliation, one is a
carefully determined punishment.
EVEN if you dont agree with it being done after a person is tried and
judgedm its not difficult
to see it is administered differently.

"Chotii" wrote in message
...

"Nina" wrote in message
...

For example,based on what you say about Denmark, a great many
people I
know would think it
insane that the norm is for kids to be raised in daycares.

Oh yes. Oh my yes. They would bristle at the very idea that it is
*abnormal* or *undesirable* for a parent to have full-time care of
the
child. But I suppose if it works for your society, then it works.
It sure
wouldn't work around here.

Now....I've been frustrated with the number of people I've run into
who seem
to simply assume that a) children must and will go into daycare or
preschool
in order to make them ready for school, even if the mother is home
all day;
that b) kids must go to kindergarten and c) that kids who do not,
who are
(as we are) homeschooled, will somehow fail to be socialised
properly.

I have a friend who was upset because she couldnt afford preschool for
her 3
year old. I said, think: you have a college education, you love the
kid, you have
all day to be with him. If you were a nanny or a daycare provider
people would thinkj
this kid had the ideal caregiver, why as a mother feel like you are
depriving him? I couldnt afford
for my kid to have a nanny with my qualifications.

"Chotii" skrev i en meddelelse
...

"Tine Andersen" wrote in message
k...
My first fear would be knowing the nabour had a gun and wondering when
his
12-yo son would use it, just because he could or because he thought it
was
'cool'. That's why I like drivers licenses given out after having
received
education. I can drive as cautious I will - if the other guy doesn't, I
die
anyhow.

This is true and sensible.

However, a license doesn't make a 16 year old wise. Lots of 16 year old
drivers kill themselves and/or their friends. As do older people. A
license
is a good thing but it doesn't stop a certain number of deaths.

Did I mention I would require my children to take a gun-safety course
(either from us, or the gun range) and have supervision at all times when
handling firearms? How does this differ from the education required to
handle a 3000-lb motor vehicle?

I'm not the least afraid of your children - I'm sure they'll be sensible.

First: I forgot you could get a drivers license when you are 16 in USA - you
have to be 18 in Denmark. And you can't drive without an authorized teacher
before you have your drivers license. 18 is a bit better, but not much. A
lot of accidents happen with youngsters involved in Denmark as well.

I guess that to me the difference between a gun and a car is that in my
world/mind set you don't need a gun, but some people need a car.

Tine, Denmark