OT religion and smacking

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:46:46 -0700, "Nina"
wrote:
knife
pills
alcohol
razor
rope
she could have used anything

I grew up around guns (not even locked up! gasp!), and have had guns
after I got married (locked up though), and when I have been depressed
it never occured to me to use a gun. Certain areas on my drive home
looked like they'd do the job if I were to run the car off the
road.(thankfully I never acted on it) Guns(and owners) just aren't the
boogeymen people seem to think they are.
Marie

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:35:03 +0100, "Tine Andersen"
wrote:
My first fear would be knowing the nabour had a gun and wondering when his
12-yo son would use it, just because he could or because he thought it was
'cool'. That's why I like drivers licenses given out after having received
education. I can drive as cautious I will - if the other guy doesn't, I die
anyhow.

I live in South Carolina and this is my experience:
That just isn't how life is where people are raised with guns. There
is no fear that someone is going to just shoot us. Heck there are even
gun safety classes given in school (or there were years ago when I was
in middle school) If my neighbors have guns (which I'm almost sure
they do, being out in the country) I have no fear whatsoever, and in
fact would be surprised if they did not own guns. People in my area
have guns in their cars, random shootings do not occur. Very rarely is
a child shot in an accident.
The majority of people my age I know had fathers/grandfathers/uncles
who took them out shooting, my own and dh's included, and my dh has
taken my older daughter out to shoot a target a few times. Many people
here hunt.
Guns aren't as horrible and scary as they sound or seem on TV, or the
news. Many people don't even have them "for protection", because as
long as it would take to get them out of the box and get the trigger
lock off and load them you'd be killed already. They are a collector's
item, they are to find food, they are for fun (targets).
Marie

Tine

Please - someone - convince me, that hitting, shooting, killing people (by
death penalty or by having guns in the house) is not the norm amongst
Americans.

I have not seen any recent statistics, but I don't believe our society
in the United States is any more violent than in most countries, and much
less than many, including those that ban weapons. One statistic that I AM
familiar with proves that, in localities where concealed weapons are
permitted, violent crime is ALWAYS reduced, and accidents not necessarily
increased.

marvin

Marvin L. Zinn
Reply to:
Using Virtual Access
Windows 2000 build 2600

Bruce and Jeanne wrote in message ...

My best childhood friend lived with a gun in her house. Locked. Given
safety lessons. Then, at 18, because she wasn't doing well at college,
she unlocked the case because she knew where the key was and shot
herself.

If she was bent on suicide, she would have found a way to end her
life, and she wasn't safe regardless of the presence of firearms.
Vilifying guns doesn't help.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

I'm not going to jump into the fray too much here because I doubt I'll
change anyone's mind. Nonetheless:
-- A gun in the home is 8 times more likely to kill a resident of that
home in suicide than it is to be used against an intruder.
-- It is 6 times more likely to kill a resident of the home in
homicide (either by a family member or an intruder) than it is to be
used against an intruder.
I suspect that the in vast majority of those suicides and homicides,
the gun owner believed that these sorts of things happen to other
families, not his or hers.

I fear guns less in the homes of young children than in the homes of
teenagers, who as part of their developmental process often do stupid
things. If you choose to have a gun in the home, please don't just
keep in mind safety around accidents with young children, but also
keep in mind that kids deliberately do stupid things when they get
older, and adults do stupid things sometimes too. Easy access to a
gun can seriously up the ante when people get crazy ideas. Please be
careful.

Kate
and the Bug, 8.5 months

"Tine Andersen" wrote in message . dk...

Please - someone - convince me, that hitting, shooting, killing people (by
death penalty or by having guns in the house) is not the norm amongst
Americans.

If it makes you feel better, I'm strongly anti-death penalty and
*very* pro-gun control. I come from a city with a major gun violence
problem (over 100 homicides last year, 85% among black men under 25
years of age) and have worked on anti-violence initiatives. There are
those of us who agree with you! On the flip side I went to a shooting
range recently with my father-in-law and rather enjoyed it. I figured
given my opinions (which didn't change) it was all the more important
for me to experience the other side.

Kate
and the Bug, 8.5 months

"Akuvikate" wrote in message
om...
"Tine Andersen" wrote in message
. dk...

Please - someone - convince me, that hitting, shooting, killing people
(by
death penalty or by having guns in the house) is not the norm amongst
Americans.

If it makes you feel better, I'm strongly anti-death penalty and
*very* pro-gun control. I come from a city with a major gun violence
problem (over 100 homicides last year, 85% among black men under 25
years of age) and have worked on anti-violence initiatives. There are
those of us who agree with you! On the flip side I went to a shooting
range recently with my father-in-law and rather enjoyed it. I figured
given my opinions (which didn't change) it was all the more important
for me to experience the other side.

Kate, if I may ask....since 'gun control' means making guns illegal to keep
people from killing each other, of what value are new laws controlling guns,
when it is *already* illegal to kill people (with a gun or anything else)?
I will concede that a firearm makes it easier to kill from a distance; what
it cannot do is prevent killing.

It just seems to me that people who casually break laws will pay no more
attention to 'guns are illegal' than they do to 'killing people is illegal'.
And if you know a way to fix *that*, I'd adore knowing it.

--angela

"Chotii" wrote in message
...

"Akuvikate" wrote in message
om...
"Tine Andersen" wrote in message
. dk...

Please - someone - convince me, that hitting, shooting, killing people
(by
death penalty or by having guns in the house) is not the norm amongst
Americans.

If it makes you feel better, I'm strongly anti-death penalty and
*very* pro-gun control. I come from a city with a major gun violence
problem (over 100 homicides last year, 85% among black men under 25
years of age) and have worked on anti-violence initiatives. There are
those of us who agree with you! On the flip side I went to a shooting
range recently with my father-in-law and rather enjoyed it. I figured
given my opinions (which didn't change) it was all the more important
for me to experience the other side.

Kate, if I may ask....since 'gun control' means making guns illegal to
keep
people from killing each other, of what value are new laws controlling
guns,
when it is *already* illegal to kill people (with a gun or anything else)?
I will concede that a firearm makes it easier to kill from a distance;
what
it cannot do is prevent killing.

Duh.

'what the laws cannot do is prevent killing' (even if there are no guns).

--angela

Nina wrote:
"Nikki" wrote in message
news
Nina wrote:

IMO hitting a child out of frustration isn't discipline, its
"fighting". ie "I'm mad at you, so
I'm going to hit you". Spanking is a carefully measured punishment
not just striking out in
anger.

Sort of. I'm not thinking that I'm hitting because I'm mad. ....
I don't feel that is correct but when I get totally frustrated then
I spank quickly, with out thinking it through.

Thats what I mean, dont hit out of anger or frustration,
In those cases, its best to just leave and take a breather.

Yes I agree. I don't mean to say one should spank out of frustration.
I've swatted a total of 5 times and I've regretted every one. It isn't
something I want to do.

When I was spanked because I had
done something
wrong, I knew it was the consequence of my actions and it wasnt my
mother hitting me because
she was mad.
Its kinda like the differnece between someone being tried and hung and
being lynched by a mob.

Maybe. It is certainly more 'civil' for the person doing the hanging (or
spanking) but the poor guy is dead both ways....I'm not sure he sees a big
difference. The difference in spanking might be fear. I can see a child
being afraid of the spanking out of frustration depending on just how out of
control the person was. I don't think my kids were afraid (I wasn't that
far gone!) but they were certainly astonished and anxious because it is just
no something their mother does. Actually Hunter seemed anxious, Luke not so
much.

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

Tine Andersen wrote:

By the way....I don't think there is anywhere that an American would
be arrested for 1-2 open handed slaps to the butt. Almost anything
else could/would be considered abusive.

Probably not even in Denmark. But technically it is illegal and has
been for 10 years.

I wouldn't want to clog up an already over taxed system by hauling people
into jail/court or over burden child protection for swatting their kids but
I would support a strong message that it was not OK. A strong anti-spanking
campaign sounds good ;-)

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)