What has hapenned to this group?

Doan
ISD - Data Network Operations
(213) 821-5238
http://www.usc.edu/isd/services/feedback


On 14 Jan 2006, 0;- wrote:


toto wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:40:44 -0800, Doan wrote:

No, how does it prove that?

Survival of the fittest. Do you know of any non-spanking culture
that thrive?

Social Darwinism is passe, Doan

And "thrive" is such a subjective concept as well.

Personally I like how the Hutterites have thrived as a society, even
across a border between two nations. I understand they have never had a
homicide in all their years of existence.

Nor are they violent with each other. And somewhat egalitarian.

It may be that they have been known to spank a child, but it would be
the rarest of occurances. And certainly not a factor in their capacity
to "thrive."

It's the non-violent gentle nature of their parenting with a fine tuned
application of developmentally approriate teaching.

'Course they don't appear, to the outsider, to even be trying...they
are so laid back about child rearing.

They aren't the only society that has thrived without battering
children and calling it their equivalent of "spanking."

I suppose "thrive" could mean more consumption/production and
environmental degradation.

0:-)


I am taking this from their website:

Courtship
What about dating practices?
Young people are provided means for meeting each other if they are from
different communities (they usually are); for example, they could ask for
permission to go for a visit, or they might be in the area and drop in
for the day.
We strongly encourage purity in relationships, for we want our young
people to be a witness for Christ. If young people think that they have
been led together by God, they are encouraged to remain totally pure in
their relationship. Impurity is dealt with severely. The Schmiedeleut
*******************************
Hutterian Brethren have an "open door" policy for young people who are
courting.

Joining
Can a person become a Hutterite?
Yes. If a person is really sincere about becoming a Hutterite, he or she
could potentially join. Of course, one would first have to live on a
Hutterite Colony for a time to ensure that they really do want to join. A
serious candidate would obviously have to fully agree with the doctrine
of the Hutterian Brethren Church and be willing to give up all personal
ownership. Upon being baptised, he or she would be considered a
full-fledged Hutterite.

As usual, Kane0 is stupid but pretending to know more than others. ;-)
Well, I guess an empty Kane will always make lot of noise. ;-0

Doan

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, beccafromlalaland wrote:


Ron Wrote:

I am far from uneducated, and I support its use. Nor has it been
ineffective, not in more than 20,000+ years of use. History proves
that it is indeed the most effective behavior modification technique
known to over 20,000+ years of
historical data and precedent.

I have read 20,000+ years of corporal punishment more times than I can
count Ronny. But yet you seem to be ignoring cultures who don't strike
their children. Like Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Austria, Cyprus,
Latvia, and Croatia. And yet their children are not unruly,
undiciplined little brats. Nor have you addressed cultures who don't
strike their children, never have because Children are viewed as
precious and thought of as beautiful gifts to be guided into
responsible adults.

And how do Swedish parents discipline their kids?

"Swedish parents now discipline their children; and in doing so, they rely
on a variety of alternatives to physical punishment. The method most
commonly used is _verbal_conflict_resolution_, which invites parents as
well as children to express their anger in words. Parents insist that
discussions involve constant eye contact, even if this means taking firm
hold of young children to engage their attention. Parents and
professionals agree that discussions may escalate into yelling, or that
yelling may be a necessary trigger for discussion. Still, many point out
that while yelling may be humiliating, it is better than ignoring the
problem or containing the anger, and it is usually less humiliating than
physical punishment."

It is better to yell at your kid - just call it "verbal conflict
resolution"! ;-)

Doan

On 14 Jan 2006, 0;- wrote:


toto wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:40:44 -0800, Doan wrote:

No, how does it prove that?

Survival of the fittest. Do you know of any non-spanking culture
that thrive?

Social Darwinism is passe, Doan

And "thrive" is such a subjective concept as well.

Personally I like how the Hutterites have thrived as a society, even
across a border between two nations. I understand they have never had a
homicide in all their years of existence.

Nor are they violent with each other. And somewhat egalitarian.

It may be that they have been known to spank a child, but it would be
the rarest of occurances. And certainly not a factor in their capacity
to "thrive."

It's the non-violent gentle nature of their parenting with a fine tuned
application of developmentally approriate teaching.

'Course they don't appear, to the outsider, to even be trying...they
are so laid back about child rearing.

They aren't the only society that has thrived without battering
children and calling it their equivalent of "spanking."

I suppose "thrive" could mean more consumption/production and
environmental degradation.

0:-)


""Tolerable" physical abuse is hard to contemplate. What would it look
like? Consider the case of the Hutterites described by Claudia Konker
(1992). The Hutterites, a 16th Century German-speaking anabaptist
religious community which emigrated to North America in the 1870's, are
traditional in every sense of the word. Theologically related to the Amish and
Mennonites, the Hutterites practice strict gender segregation and raise
their children according to literal interpretation of the Christian Bible.
This interpretation involves corporal punishment. Children, they believe,
are innately bad and must be made good and kept good until they can make a
free choice in adulthood to live in accordance with the Scriptures. "

Did Kane do his homework on the Hutterites? ;-)

Doan

Doan....I'm really trying hard...so help me out here What does Courtship and Joining the Hutterite faith have ANYTHING whatsoever to do with spanking?

Originally Posted by Doan

Doan
ISD - Data Network Operations
(213) 821-5238
http://www.usc.edu/isd/services/feedback


On 14 Jan 2006, 0;- wrote:


toto wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:40:44 -0800, Doan wrote:

No, how does it prove that?

Survival of the fittest. Do you know of any non-spanking culture
that thrive?

Social Darwinism is passe, Doan

And "thrive" is such a subjective concept as well.

Personally I like how the Hutterites have thrived as a society, even
across a border between two nations. I understand they have never had a
homicide in all their years of existence.

Nor are they violent with each other. And somewhat egalitarian.

It may be that they have been known to spank a child, but it would be
the rarest of occurances. And certainly not a factor in their capacity
to "thrive."

It's the non-violent gentle nature of their parenting with a fine tuned
application of developmentally approriate teaching.

'Course they don't appear, to the outsider, to even be trying...they
are so laid back about child rearing.

They aren't the only society that has thrived without battering
children and calling it their equivalent of "spanking."

I suppose "thrive" could mean more consumption/production and
environmental degradation.

0:-)


I am taking this from their website:

Courtship
What about dating practices?
Young people are provided means for meeting each other if they are from
different communities (they usually are); for example, they could ask for
permission to go for a visit, or they might be in the area and drop in
for the day.
We strongly encourage purity in relationships, for we want our young
people to be a witness for Christ. If young people think that they have
been led together by God, they are encouraged to remain totally pure in
their relationship. Impurity is dealt with severely. The Schmiedeleut
*******************************
Hutterian Brethren have an "open door" policy for young people who are
courting.

Joining
Can a person become a Hutterite?
Yes. If a person is really sincere about becoming a Hutterite, he or she
could potentially join. Of course, one would first have to live on a
Hutterite Colony for a time to ensure that they really do want to join. A
serious candidate would obviously have to fully agree with the doctrine
of the Hutterian Brethren Church and be willing to give up all personal
ownership. Upon being baptised, he or she would be considered a
full-fledged Hutterite.

As usual, Kane0 is stupid but pretending to know more than others. ;-)
Well, I guess an empty Kane will always make lot of noise. ;-0

Doan

"Impurity is dealt with severely"

Doan

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, beccafromlalaland wrote:


Doan....I'm really trying hard...so help me out here What does
Courtship and Joining the Hutterite faith have ANYTHING whatsoever to
do with spanking?

Originally Posted by Doan

And how do Swedish parents discipline their kids?

"Swedish parents now discipline their children; and in doing so, they rely
on a variety of alternatives to physical punishment. The method most
commonly used is _verbal_conflict_resolution_, which invites parents as
well as children to express their anger in words. Parents insist that
discussions involve constant eye contact, even if this means taking firm
hold of young children to engage their attention. Parents and
professionals agree that discussions may escalate into yelling, or that
yelling may be a necessary trigger for discussion. Still, many point out
that while yelling may be humiliating, it is better than ignoring the
problem or containing the anger, and it is usually less humiliating than
physical punishment."

It is better to yell at your kid - just call it "verbal conflict
resolution"! ;-)

Doan

I'm sure spanking families "NEVER" yell at their kids...noooOooo Never ever.

Honestly given the choice between being yelled at and being hit as a Child I would have chosen the yelling everytime.

Michael wrote:
Doan submitted this idea :
On 14 Jan 2006, 0;- wrote:


toto wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:40:44 -0800, Doan wrote:

No, how does it prove that?

Survival of the fittest. Do you know of any non-spanking culture
that thrive?

Social Darwinism is passe, Doan

And "thrive" is such a subjective concept as well.

Personally I like how the Hutterites have thrived as a society, even
across a border between two nations. I understand they have never had a
homicide in all their years of existence.

Nor are they violent with each other. And somewhat egalitarian.

It may be that they have been known to spank a child, but it would be
the rarest of occurances. And certainly not a factor in their capacity
to "thrive."

It's the non-violent gentle nature of their parenting with a fine tuned
application of developmentally approriate teaching.

'Course they don't appear, to the outsider, to even be trying...they
are so laid back about child rearing.

They aren't the only society that has thrived without battering
children and calling it their equivalent of "spanking."

I suppose "thrive" could mean more consumption/production and
environmental degradation.

0:-)


""Tolerable" physical abuse is hard to contemplate. What would it look
like? Consider the case of the Hutterites described by Claudia Konker
(1992). The Hutterites, a 16th Century German-speaking anabaptist
religious community which emigrated to North America in the 1870's, are
traditional in every sense of the word. Theologically related to the Amish
and Mennonites, the Hutterites practice strict gender segregation and raise
their children according to literal interpretation of the Christian Bible.
This interpretation involves corporal punishment. Children, they believe,
are innately bad and must be made good and kept good until they can make a
free choice in adulthood to live in accordance with the Scriptures. "

Did Kane do his homework on the Hutterites? ;-)

Doan

Hell no he/she didn't!

R R R R...apparently far better than you and your monkeyboy companion.

There is more that one "Hutterite" social congregate to consider.

http://www.th-record.com/1997/9-12-97/sujmfede.htm
The confusion may start here. I like confusion. It sifts the bull****
artists that do NOT do adequate research, before they start accusing
other of it. R R R R

Many have confused the one for the other. I just knew I could smoke out
a screaching hysterical dancing monkeyboy, but look at what other
vermin I managed to bring out of the bushes.

It pops its chops off on **** it doesn't understand on a regular basis.
8-o

Odd, I have repeadedly, just as now, nailed you nearly every time...and
especially when you challenge me like this. Aren't you getting tired of
being exposed for the fool you are?

You are aware, because of course you looked up the source the monkeyboy
quoted, that that is an opinion piece, right?

Most likely taken from he http://www.cwu.edu/~chasm/phikphi.htm

.... a blatant anti Child Protection diatribe that may or may not be, in
this instance, a real search and disclosure of Hutterite child rearing
practices OVER ALL...but focusing instead on an historical period that
may or may not reflect contemporary Hutterite practices.

Shall we study further? As you failed to do before jumping in the
sinking ship that the screaching monkeyboy paddles?

http://www.peacefulsocieties.org/News.html (you might find this
useful...as might other posters to this ng)

But, on to the question of the "Hutterites" and corporal punishment of
children.

http://www.peacefulsocieties.org/Society/Hutter.html

Well, it doesn't say they do spank, nor that they don't spank.

My bet...they do.

I have no problem with being corrected.

On the other hand, do you think spanking is how they managed to be a
society that thrives?

Why do you and the monkeyboy so cowardly avoid accepting when you are
wrong?

I suppose the answer is in my admittedly rhetorical question.

You are cowards.

Kane 0:-

On 15 Jan 2006, 0;- wrote:


Michael wrote:
Doan submitted this idea :
On 14 Jan 2006, 0;- wrote:


toto wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:40:44 -0800, Doan wrote:

No, how does it prove that?

Survival of the fittest. Do you know of any non-spanking culture
that thrive?

Social Darwinism is passe, Doan

And "thrive" is such a subjective concept as well.

Personally I like how the Hutterites have thrived as a society, even
across a border between two nations. I understand they have never had a
homicide in all their years of existence.

Nor are they violent with each other. And somewhat egalitarian.

It may be that they have been known to spank a child, but it would be
the rarest of occurances. And certainly not a factor in their capacity
to "thrive."

It's the non-violent gentle nature of their parenting with a fine tuned
application of developmentally approriate teaching.

'Course they don't appear, to the outsider, to even be trying...they
are so laid back about child rearing.

They aren't the only society that has thrived without battering
children and calling it their equivalent of "spanking."

I suppose "thrive" could mean more consumption/production and
environmental degradation.

0:-)


""Tolerable" physical abuse is hard to contemplate. What would it look
like? Consider the case of the Hutterites described by Claudia Konker
(1992). The Hutterites, a 16th Century German-speaking anabaptist
religious community which emigrated to North America in the 1870's, are
traditional in every sense of the word. Theologically related to the Amish
and Mennonites, the Hutterites practice strict gender segregation and raise
their children according to literal interpretation of the Christian Bible.
This interpretation involves corporal punishment. Children, they believe,
are innately bad and must be made good and kept good until they can make a
free choice in adulthood to live in accordance with the Scriptures. "

Did Kane do his homework on the Hutterites? ;-)

Doan

Hell no he/she didn't!

R R R R...apparently far better than you and your monkeyboy companion.

There is more that one "Hutterite" social congregate to consider.

http://www.th-record.com/1997/9-12-97/sujmfede.htm
The confusion may start here. I like confusion. It sifts the bull****
artists that do NOT do adequate research, before they start accusing
other of it. R R R R

Many have confused the one for the other. I just knew I could smoke out
a screaching hysterical dancing monkeyboy, but look at what other
vermin I managed to bring out of the bushes.

It pops its chops off on **** it doesn't understand on a regular basis.
8-o

Odd, I have repeadedly, just as now, nailed you nearly every time...and
especially when you challenge me like this. Aren't you getting tired of
being exposed for the fool you are?

You are aware, because of course you looked up the source the monkeyboy
quoted, that that is an opinion piece, right?

Most likely taken from he http://www.cwu.edu/~chasm/phikphi.htm

... a blatant anti Child Protection diatribe that may or may not be, in
this instance, a real search and disclosure of Hutterite child rearing
practices OVER ALL...but focusing instead on an historical period that
may or may not reflect contemporary Hutterite practices.

Shall we study further? As you failed to do before jumping in the
sinking ship that the screaching monkeyboy paddles?

http://www.peacefulsocieties.org/News.html (you might find this
useful...as might other posters to this ng)

But, on to the question of the "Hutterites" and corporal punishment of
children.

http://www.peacefulsocieties.org/Society/Hutter.html

Well, it doesn't say they do spank, nor that they don't spank.

My bet...they do.

I have no problem with being corrected.

On the other hand, do you think spanking is how they managed to be a
society that thrives?

Why do you and the monkeyboy so cowardly avoid accepting when you are
wrong?

I suppose the answer is in my admittedly rhetorical question.

You are cowards.

Kane 0:-

Don't you just love this "never-spanked" boy? Even when he is caught
red-handed, he is still saying that he is right! His mother must
be proud of the way she raised him. According to Kane, his mother
even approved of his calling other women "smelly-****". What a mom! ;-)

Doan

Doan wrote:
"Impurity is dealt with severely"

Doan

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, beccafromlalaland wrote:


Doan....I'm really trying hard...so help me out here What does
Courtship and Joining the Hutterite faith have ANYTHING whatsoever to
do with spanking?


Well, let me help you explain. The dancing screeching monkeyboy could
not read what I said (which included that Hutterites likely DO
spank...it's just a low priority for them in child rearing...and most
certainly NOT why they "thrive.")

He is so frightened of being found wrong (which of course is his
constant) he frequently claims his opponent says things they did not.
Which of course in this case again, he has done. I did not say the
Hutterites didn't spank.

He was so busy cherry picking, all that he knows how to do in debate,
that he didn't bother to investigate more widely. I have, for instance,
in this case, not only read far more widely than he on this issue, but
I've even posted an e-mail to the Hutterite community asking if they'd
mind filling me in on their practices concerning child discipline.

I'll share their answer if it does not breach confidentiality. But I
certainly won't mangle it or claim they said something they didn't to
try and "win" a debating contest as this silly ass has made a practice
of for many years now.

I don't know how much time you have, but if you have a moment you might
get a kick out of a search on his posting archives through google on
the subjects of (sans quote marks)

"Embry study" (in that one he faked being a Mexican women asking me for
a copy..using the name of a prominate well known person were he
works..which I've more than passing familiar with). He claimed to have
the study himself (which I required for debate, him being a constant
liar and all, interested in the game of debate, rather than the
truth.) but would not provide any proof by answering questions
concerning content related to page and paragraph. He thinks he's
clever, but just another babbling fool exercising his pathology on this
medium.

"The Question" is an entertaining romp through thinking errors
expanded. He tried to answer The Question with every device he could
think of, including the usual attack dodges, subject changing, etc.
when any objective person could see immediately the claim by spankers
they know the limit when it comes to spanking so it will not become
abuse was bs.

It can't be known. Not by law, not even by science. The number of
uncontrolled variables is too great. They would approach near infinite
variations and combinations possiblities.

His major tactic is to attack. Never to answer challenges, with
anything other than attack. It's the oldest debating ploy in the book.
Common to those such as the Holocaust Deniers, Creationists,
Intelligent Designers, etc.

They have an empty claim with no way to defend it factually so they
attack bits and pieces of the opponents position, rather than the whole
of it. Same ol' same ol.

There is little ethic in attacking the pieces removed from the whole.
It's glib and easy. I indulge in it myself, when I tire of them doing
it, rather than sticking to the point under debate. He's in the middle
of such a foray right now.

The Hutterites was a bone I through him, and as usual he bite himself
instead. I was agreeing that some spanking takes place even in peaceful
communities. He was so excited that he missed it.

Interesting, isn't it?

Kane

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, beccafromlalaland wrote:


Doan Wrote:
And how do Swedish parents discipline their kids?

"Swedish parents now discipline their children; and in doing so, they
rely
on a variety of alternatives to physical punishment. The method most
commonly used is _verbal_conflict_resolution_, which invites parents
as
well as children to express their anger in words. Parents insist that
discussions involve constant eye contact, even if this means taking
firm
hold of young children to engage their attention. Parents and
professionals agree that discussions may escalate into yelling, or
that
yelling may be a necessary trigger for discussion. Still, many point
out
that while yelling may be humiliating, it is better than ignoring the
problem or containing the anger, and it is usually less humiliating
than
physical punishment."

It is better to yell at your kid - just call it "verbal conflict
resolution"! ;-)

Doan


I'm sure spanking families "NEVER" yell at their kids...noooOooo Never
ever.

Honestly given the choice between being yelled at and being hit as a
Child I would have chosen the yelling everytime.

I'll bet you do! Sound like you are recommending it replacement for
spanking, just as in Sweden.

Doan