WHEN do fetuses feel pain - what age?

**WHEN** DO FETUSES FEEL PAIN - WHAT AGE?

According to Susan J. Lee, JD et al.:

"Evidence regarding the capacity for fetal pain is limited but
indicates that fetal perception of pain is unlikely before the third
trimester."
--Susan J. Lee, JD et al. JAMA. 2005 Aug 24;294(8):947-54. PubMed
abstract reproduced below.

OBVIOUSLY THEN, FULL-TERM BABIES FEEL PAIN. (In 1987, I exposed
American MDs still using phony "babies can't feel pain" neurology. See
below.)

I'll copy Susan J. Lee, JD via and via


Attention: SUSAN J. LEE, JD and co-authors:

DO YOU SUSPECT CHILD ABUSE?

MD-obstetricians are doing BIZARRE painful things to FULL-TERM babies -
senselessly closing birth canals up to 30% and senselessly KEEPING
birth canals closed when babies get stuck - as they pull with hands,
forceps and vacuums.

Sometimes MD-obstetricians pull so hard they rip spinal nerves out of
tiny spinal cords.

Some babies die - some babies get paralyzed - most "only" suffer
gruesome spinal manipulation.

ALL spinal manipulation is gruesome with the birth canal senselessly
closed the "extra" up to 30%.

MD-obstetrician experts have been LYING to cover-up.

For the Four OB Lies (they are whoppers)...

See Dents in babies' skulls"
http://groups.google.com/group/
misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/08abfc7ff242150e

Alternate URL:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/3897

SUSAN (and co-authors), if you suspect child abuse, please report
immediately as required by law.

Also, please immediately go to the maternity wards at UCSF and tell
MD-obstetricians they should not be keeping birth canals closed the
"extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck - let alone closing birth
canals the "extra" up to 30% in the first place.

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo
Hillsboro, Oregon
USA


PS My thanks to Jason Johnson for his response (see below) which
stimulated me to find the article by Susan J. Lee, JD et al....

I asked:

"Does a fetus feel pain? (also: Ultrasound images are such fun
but...WAAH!)"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....0c3f4f54aa7dc7

Jason Johnson replied, "A better question would be: At what age does a
fetus feel pain?"...

"The best way to answer the question:
Does a fetus feel pain?
is to have a camera crew film several 5 month old babies in a large
hospital as a doctor or nurse gave the babies shots.
If most of those babies cried when the shot was given, that would be
proof
that 5 month old babies felt pain.
A better question would be:
At what age does a fetus feel pain?
It's my guess that the fetus does not feel pain until the second
trimester."
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....2732aa049bc5f0

Here's the full Lee et al. PubMed abstract...

JAMA. 2005 Aug 24;294(8):947-54. PubMed

Comment in:
JAMA. 2006 Jan 11;295(2):159; author reply 160-1.
JAMA. 2006 Jan 11;295(2):159; author reply 160-1.
JAMA. 2006 Jan 11;295(2):160; author reply 160-1.
Fetal pain: a systematic multidisciplinary review of the evidence.
Lee SJ,
Ralston HJ,
Drey EA,
Partridge JC,
Rosen MA.
School of Medicine, Department of Anatomy, University of California,
San Francisco, CA 94143-0648, USA.
CONTEXT: Proposed federal legislation would require physicians to
inform women seeking abortions at 20 or more weeks after fertilization
that the fetus feels pain and to offer anesthesia administered directly
to the fetus. This article examines whether a fetus feels pain and if
so, whether safe and effective techniques exist for providing direct
fetal anesthesia or analgesia in the context of therapeutic procedures
or abortion. EVIDENCE ACQUISITION: Systematic search of PubMed for
English-language articles focusing on human studies related to fetal
pain, anesthesia, and analgesia. Included articles studied fetuses of
less than 30 weeks' gestational age or specifically addressed fetal
pain perception or nociception. Articles were reviewed for additional
references. The search was performed without date limitations and was
current as of June 6, 2005. EVIDENCE SYNTHESIS: Pain perception
requires conscious recognition or awareness of a noxious stimulus.
Neither withdrawal reflexes nor hormonal stress responses to invasive
procedures prove the existence of fetal pain, because they can be
elicited by nonpainful stimuli and occur without conscious cortical
processing. Fetal awareness of noxious stimuli requires functional
thalamocortical connections. Thalamocortical fibers begin appearing
between 23 to 30 weeks' gestational age, while electroencephalography
suggests the capacity for functional pain perception in preterm
neonates probably does not exist before 29 or 30 weeks. For fetal
surgery, women may receive general anesthesia and/or analgesics
intended for placental transfer, and parenteral opioids may be
administered to the fetus under direct or sonographic visualization. In
these circumstances, administration of anesthesia and analgesia serves
purposes unrelated to reduction of fetal pain, including inhibition of
fetal movement, prevention of fetal hormonal stress responses, and
induction of uterine atony. CONCLUSIONS: Evidence regarding the
capacity for fetal pain is limited but indicates that fetal perception
of pain is unlikely before the third trimester. Little or no evidence
addresses the effectiveness of direct fetal anesthetic or analgesic
techniques. Similarly, limited or no data exist on the safety of such
techniques for pregnant women in the context of abortion. Anesthetic
techniques currently used during fetal surgery are not directly
applicable to abortion procedures.

END Lee et al. PubMed abstract

So if we intend to KILL a fetus, the fetus shouldn't feel pain - but if
we intend to - say - rip and slice an infant penis^^^ - the infant can
scream and writhe and bleed - and the Feds don't give a damn?

^^^Ripping and slicing infant penises - for no medical reason -
sometimes killing the infant in the process - is American medicine's
most frequent surgical behavior toward males.

Stopping the infant screams by stopping the MDs not only instantly
saves America an estimated $400 million per year - it PRESERVES the
surgery as a CHOICE American males can make for themselves in
adulthood.

The mass child abuse should have ended BILLIONS of dollars' worth of
infant screams ago - back in 1987 - when I exposed American medicine's
phony "babies can't feel pain" neurology.

INTERESTING FACTOID #1: After I exposed the phony babies can't feel
pain neurology in October 1987, in Nov. 1987 (Nov19), the NEJM
published an article about the phony neurology which it had been
holding back on [KJS Anand, personal communication]. NEJM
simultaneously published an editorial which indicated that BABIES
"incur" the pain when their penises are ripped and sliced.

INTERESTING FACTOID #2: In late 1987, I petitioned Congress for an
exemption from the child abuse laws for the ancient Jewish ritual that
leaves most of the foreskin on the penis. In Jan. 1988, American
pediatricians came out against ALL religious exemptions [Pediatrics,
Jan 1988]; and in Feb. 1988, American pediatricians came out in favor
of anonymity for PERPETRATORS of child abuse [Pediatrics, Feb 1988].
In March 1988, something even more incredible happened....

See again: "Does a fetus feel pain? (also: Ultrasound images are such
fun but...WAAH!)"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....0c3f4f54aa7dc7

AGAIN...

DOES SUSAN J. LEE, JD SUSPECT CHILD ABUSE?

NOTE: In regard to the mass infant penis ripping and slicing by MDs
discussed above, the California Supreme Court decided the mass infant
penis ripping and slicing was legal - but the Court never heard that
MDs had been using phony "babies can't feel pain" neurology to obtain
"informed consent" to perform the American medicine's (still) NO
MEDICAL INDICATIONS most frequent surgical behavior toward males.

See 'The Heckler's veto' (also: Barrett v. Rosenthal: The Court's shaky

factual bkgrnd)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...5edd9405684253

The infant screams should have ended BILLIONS of dollars' worth of
infant screams ago.

Stopping the infant screams now instantly saves America an estimated
$400 million per year and PRESERVES the surgery as a CHOICE that males
can make for themselves in adulthood.

As I told Congress in late 1987, I am in favor of an exemption from the
child abuse statutes for the ancient Jewish ritual that leaves most of
the foreskin on the penis.

I am also in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. As medical students,
MDs are TRAINED to perform obvious felonies.

WHY are we letting MD-obstetricians KEEP birth canals closed the
"extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck?

Why are we letting them close birth canals the "extra" up to 30% in the
first place?

Thanks for reading everyone.

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo
Hillsboro, Oregon
USA


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