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Setting one's self up for failure?



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 8th 06, 11:50 AM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
tami
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Posts: 11
Default Setting one's self up for failure?

Breastfeeding hurt for almost the first two weeks. I had to really
clench my teeth whenever my son latched on. One nipple even bled in
the first week when he bit down accidentally when I was trying to
withdraw, and my sister-pediatrician said, keep on breastfeeding
through the pain. When my son had a stomach virus and kept pooing after
each feed, my sister said, keep it up, breastfeeding is his first line
of defense. So I had been conditioned to breastfeed and there was no
alternative. I think that because of that, I continued. Now
breastfeeding is the best part of my day. He has just turned one and I
can't pump enough milk at work to feed him so I am trying formula out
of necessity. But I will still pump and then BF when I get home. I
really enjoy it!

cjra wrote:
I am curious to hear other's perspectives. On another parenting board,
where most of the members are young and first time moms, I read so
often that they will 'try breastfeeding and if it doesn't go well,
stop."

Now, normally I'm all for trying and being realistic. But at least for
me, such an attitude would have doomed us to failure. Thanks to being a
lurker here for years, I was fully prepared for the difficulties. My
attitude was "it WILL work. We WILL work through the difficult parts."
Anything else seemed to be accepting defeat before even trying.

Is that just me? Did you find the 'I will try and see" attitude worked
for you? Especially when it was difficult at first?

Now, I will add this group also h as a lot of people who say they will
bf for 4 weeks then switch to formula. And many who say they tried and
couldn' tbecause they didn't have enough milk, baby wasn't gaining
weight, all-knowing doc/nurse told them to supplement, milk didn't come
in until day 5 so the nurses said they had to supplement with formula
so baby won't starve. etc.


  #22  
Old August 8th 06, 02:50 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
cjra
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Posts: 1,015
Default Setting one's self up for failure?


Sarah Vaughan wrote:


That may well be true for some women, but I think what motivates a lot
of women who say this is that they don't want to feel like a failure,
and they'll feel that way if they've built themselves up to think of
breastfeeding as something important and then can't manage it. So they
guard against that by not thinking about it as too big a deal.



That sounds reasonable. This came up ebcause someone said it was
unrealistic to say you'd BF for X amount of time and that was setting
one's self up for failure. Whereas for me personally, it was the
opposite.


I think what made me wonder more is that there are *so many* women on
that group who say they 'tried and couldn't do it" because they 'didn't
have enough milk' or similar. Then say they tried for 2 days. Or one
couldn't possibly know how much they suffered because their kid was
starving/screaming etc. Those are the same women telling others to not
set goals.

  #23  
Old August 8th 06, 04:30 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
Irene
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Posts: 118
Default Setting one's self up for failure?


cjra wrote:
I am curious to hear other's perspectives. On another parenting board,
where most of the members are young and first time moms, I read so
often that they will 'try breastfeeding and if it doesn't go well,
stop."


Well, I agree with the others that it really so depends on the person
and the experience. Before you have kids, it is sooo hard to have any
idea what it's really going to be like, esp. when you get conflicting
reports all over the place! And of course, it *is* different for each
mom/baby(babies). You can get this idea in your head of what it's
going to be like, and so much of it just flies out the window once you
actually have a baby! I've read so many stories about moms who
expected this instant bond via bf, and were disenchanted when it wasn't
this purely magical experience. Or the moms who were just willing to
give it a try - and when it worked, it was suddenly, well, a magical
experience. And when things don't go smoothly - is it perceived as a
challenge to overcome, or as an insurmountable thing and a good reason
to quit and go to bottles?

Of course, good advice and good support are crucial, as well as
attitude - but it's sometimes hard to know what will motivate someone.
(Confession - one of my motivations was to do better than my SIL who
started combi-feeding very early on through lack of support -
competitive nature strikes again!)

Irene

  #24  
Old August 8th 06, 06:47 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
Cheri Stryker
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Posts: 44
Default Setting one's self up for failure?

cjra wrote:
I am curious to hear other's perspectives. On another parenting board,
where most of the members are young and first time moms, I read so
often that they will 'try breastfeeding and if it doesn't go well,
stop."

Now, normally I'm all for trying and being realistic. But at least for
me, such an attitude would have doomed us to failure. Thanks to being a
lurker here for years, I was fully prepared for the difficulties. My
attitude was "it WILL work. We WILL work through the difficult parts."
Anything else seemed to be accepting defeat before even trying.

Is that just me? Did you find the 'I will try and see" attitude worked
for you? Especially when it was difficult at first?


This actually makes me quite sad. There's a lot of pressure out there
for younger people, in that so many of them have conflicting messages.
They were most likely bottle fed, so they've likely got the parents
giving "good enough for you" messages. But then there's a lot of
pressure out there to breast feed - complete with the overtones of
"you're a failure if you don't", combined with the "crunchy earth
mother" overtones. Honestly, I think that the impression that
breastfeeding is for "hippies", might be doing the most harm.

I really never considered bottle feeding as an option, simply because
it's such a pain - I didn't have a dishwasher when my first was born,
and the thought of trying to get that many bottles clean and sterile
made suffering through any amount of thrush pain much more attractive.

Education is definitely an issue, but I think just seeing it first hand,
and talking about it with a currently breastfeeding mother is the best
kind.

On a somewhat related note, I've been horrified lately, with the recent
heat wave, and our just average 90 degree days, to see just how many
women fix up a bottle and leave it in the stroller with the baby, for
HOURS. I've even seen a few on the bus (a 45 min. trip for me, and they
were already on) who have one bottle in with the baby, and 2 or 3 more
underneath, just sitting there, curdling. BLECH!
--
Cheri Stryker

mom to DS1 - 7 yrs, and DS2 - 5.5 months
  #25  
Old August 8th 06, 07:11 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
cjra
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Posts: 1,015
Default Setting one's self up for failure?


Cheri Stryker wrote:
On a somewhat related note, I've been horrified lately, with the recent
heat wave, and our just average 90 degree days, to see just how many
women fix up a bottle and leave it in the stroller with the baby, for
HOURS. I've even seen a few on the bus (a 45 min. trip for me, and they
were already on) who have one bottle in with the baby, and 2 or 3 more
underneath, just sitting there, curdling. BLECH!


Ah, that reminds me. It's regularly over 100F here, and was a cool 95F
on Saturday, so we took a walk. A looong walk. Had to return the
hospital pump and decided to do some other stuff hanging around
downtown, it was about 5 hrs in the end, though we took some breaks in
cool places. DD did wonderfully. But I was thinking what a major PITA
that would have been if I'd had to bottle feed! Instead I could just
feed her whenever she got hungry, wherever we were. It reminded me of
how much easier BF really is, and made the difficult bits so worth it!

  #26  
Old August 8th 06, 10:07 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
Anne Rogers
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Posts: 1,497
Default Setting one's self up for failure?

. I'd love to see much more emphasis put on the fact that *any* amount of
breastfeeding is beneficial to the baby, and the more the better.
Hopefully, that would persuade more women to be willing to take one day or
one week at a time rather than assuming that if it doesn't work out, then
that's that.


I'd also agree with this, there is so little information out there about
mixed feeding, so people don't know the facts, many doctors, health visitors
etc. will happily suggest 1 bottle of formula, but not providing the
information about how this might affect supply.

I've come across a lot of women who think they have to wean before return to
work, for various reasons, some thinking it is not possible to give formula
during the day time and breastfeed other times, some thinking that it is not
worth giving the baby that bit of breastmilk, others thinking that problems
such as leakage or engorgement are going to be with them the whole time of
breastfeeding.

If there was good information available, then at least people would be able
to make an informed decision.

I was also struck by what a friend said, she had twins born at 34 weeks, she
breastfed them exclusively until 5 weeks then decided she could not go on.
No one suggested to her that she could have mixed fed rather than stopping
completely, or what she later thought might have been better, continuing to
feed the twin who was good at breastfeeding and stopping the one that was
causing so many of the problems, some people might think this was
outrageous, but would have been very workable for her at that time and would
at least have given one the benefit of breastmilk and probably the other too
had she pumped at all.

Anne


  #27  
Old August 11th 06, 03:19 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
Notchalk
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Posts: 116
Default Setting one's self up for failure?

On 2006-08-07 23:29:09 +0800, "cjra" said:

I am curious to hear other's perspectives. On another parenting board,
where most of the members are young and first time moms, I read so
often that they will 'try breastfeeding and if it doesn't go well,
stop."

Now, normally I'm all for trying and being realistic. But at least for
me, such an attitude would have doomed us to failure. Thanks to being a
lurker here for years, I was fully prepared for the difficulties. My
attitude was "it WILL work. We WILL work through the difficult parts."
Anything else seemed to be accepting defeat before even trying.

Is that just me? Did you find the 'I will try and see" attitude worked
for you? Especially when it was difficult at first?

Now, I will add this group also h as a lot of people who say they will
bf for 4 weeks then switch to formula. And many who say they tried and
couldn' tbecause they didn't have enough milk, baby wasn't gaining
weight, all-knowing doc/nurse told them to supplement, milk didn't come
in until day 5 so the nurses said they had to supplement with formula
so baby won't starve. etc.


A simillar topic has been discussed on a Midwifery list I subscribe to.
I have permission to post this from the owner, but I thought it said it
all...

I too wondered why breastfeeding seems so difficult and stressful for
so many women....... especially once I'd worked with indigenous women
and*saw how easy they seemed to find it.* So trying to figure it out, I
noticed a few differences.*
*
Indigenous women have alot of exposure to breastfeeding as they have
extended family groups with large families.**They don't speak of
'trying' to breastfeed, it seems they don't even question their own
ability that they will be able to do it.* In my experience it is rare
to see problems, and they are often associated with separation from
their baby*(ie prems/sick).*Other things I noticed is that*indigenous
women never look at the clock, there is never the comment** "I only fed
5 minutes ago...*" they totally feed on demand and don't put feeds off
until they've eaten lunch, or the visitors have gone or whatever.* They
aren't ashamed of their breasts or even self-conscious.* For the
midwife.........it's blissful!*
*
We encourage women to be instinctive with birthing their baby, maybe we
should do the same with breastfeeding?* (just thinking out loud)

/end quote.

Jo
--
Woman, Wife, Mother, Midwife

  #28  
Old August 11th 06, 03:59 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
[email protected]
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Posts: 77
Default Setting one's self up for failure?


Notchalk wrote:
On 2006-08-07 23:29:09 +0800, "cjra" said:

I am curious to hear other's perspectives. On another parenting board,
where most of the members are young and first time moms, I read so
often that they will 'try breastfeeding and if it doesn't go well,
stop."

Now, normally I'm all for trying and being realistic. But at least for
me, such an attitude would have doomed us to failure. Thanks to being a
lurker here for years, I was fully prepared for the difficulties. My
attitude was "it WILL work. We WILL work through the difficult parts."
Anything else seemed to be accepting defeat before even trying.

Is that just me? Did you find the 'I will try and see" attitude worked
for you? Especially when it was difficult at first?

Now, I will add this group also h as a lot of people who say they will
bf for 4 weeks then switch to formula. And many who say they tried and
couldn' tbecause they didn't have enough milk, baby wasn't gaining
weight, all-knowing doc/nurse told them to supplement, milk didn't come
in until day 5 so the nurses said they had to supplement with formula
so baby won't starve. etc.


A simillar topic has been discussed on a Midwifery list I subscribe to.
I have permission to post this from the owner, but I thought it said it
all...

I too wondered why breastfeeding seems so difficult and stressful for
so many women....... especially once I'd worked with indigenous women
and saw how easy they seemed to find it. So trying to figure it out, I
noticed a few differences.

Indigenous women have alot of exposure to breastfeeding as they have
extended family groups with large families. They don't speak of
'trying' to breastfeed, it seems they don't even question their own
ability that they will be able to do it. In my experience it is rare
to see problems, and they are often associated with separation from
their baby (ie prems/sick). Other things I noticed is that indigenous
women never look at the clock, there is never the comment "I only fed
5 minutes ago... " they totally feed on demand and don't put feeds off
until they've eaten lunch, or the visitors have gone or whatever. They
aren't ashamed of their breasts or even self-conscious. For the
midwife.........it's blissful!

We encourage women to be instinctive with birthing their baby, maybe we
should do the same with breastfeeding? (just thinking out loud)

/end quote.


In there is your problem. The Western world, for want of a better
description, has come so far from 'nature' that the experience of
indigenous women in *all* areas of life is not really comparable to
ours. I agree 100% with the principle that we should get back to bf'ing
being instinctive, but you cannot roll back centuries of 'progress'
just by saying it should be so. Not that I am saying you are suggesting
that, but there are some that see it that black and white that it
becomes counterproductive. How to make that revision back to instinct
gradually is also a point of contest and whilst the world is still
going 'forward' it becomes harder. So far instant Utopia has failed, I
believe we need to take it as slowly as it did to change in the first
place.

Gosh, that's a bit heavy for a Friday afternoon!

Jeni

  #29  
Old August 24th 06, 12:26 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Setting one's self up for failure?

cjra wrote:
I am curious to hear other's perspectives. On another parenting board,
where most of the members are young and first time moms, I read so
often that they will 'try breastfeeding and if it doesn't go well,
stop."

Now, normally I'm all for trying and being realistic. But at least for
me, such an attitude would have doomed us to failure. Thanks to being a
lurker here for years, I was fully prepared for the difficulties. My
attitude was "it WILL work. We WILL work through the difficult parts."
Anything else seemed to be accepting defeat before even trying.

Is that just me? Did you find the 'I will try and see" attitude worked
for you? Especially when it was difficult at first?


Oh, I totally had the, "It WILL work" thing going for both my kids. Had
I wavered at all, neither would have been breastfed--it was too dang
painful the first week the first time, and just flat out HARD the
second time. But I was raised to know that babies have a right to be
nursed, even when it's not fun, and stuck with it because it was the
thing to do. It chaps my nipples to hear people going off on how
extended nursing is for the mom's benefit--it frankly drives me up the
wall almost as much as my toddler's teeth, but my toddler *needs* my
milk to an extreme degree, and so I put up with biting, pinching and
pulling happening at every damn feed because she needs it. Or rather, I
deal with it, I dont' really put up with it, but it keeps happening
anyway. If it were all about what makes me feel good, this child would
not be allowed within 10 feet of my breasts. But it's worth it, because
she's catching up on some of her milestones, her hearing is improving,
she's doing *so* much better than anyone could have predicted, and I
strongly suspect that breastfeeding has a lot to do with it. So we
persist, pinchy grabby bity baby and all.

I enjoyed nursing my older daughter for about 2 years of our 6 year
nursing relationship. I tolerated it gracefully for about 3 1/2 years
of it. And I spent about 6 months at various times feeling like playing
keepaway with the boobie.

With dd2, I enjoyed it for about 4 blissful weeks when she was not
biting and I was not weighing her and she had no teeth and I didn't
have to pump and she seemed to be nursing well most of the time without
choking and gagging. She's 17 months old. I spent 4 1/2 months teaching
her to nurse, 1 month enjoying it, 1 month panicking because she had
learned to latch about as well as I thought we could get and still
wasn't gaining, 2 months being vaguely depressed that she gained better
on supplemental coconut milk than on breastmilk, and then the biting
started. So doing the math, that's 1 month of "rather pleasant" and 16
months of, "Because she needs it"...and counting.

Nothing, NOTHING could have prepared me for this nursing
relationship--but it's *still* better than formula, especially for this
baby. I strongly suspect she'd have been hospitalized multiple times if
she'd been formula-fed, due to aspiration.

  #30  
Old August 24th 06, 01:48 PM posted to misc.kids.breastfeeding
KD
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Posts: 34
Default Setting one's self up for failure?


wrote:
cjra wrote:
I am curious to hear other's perspectives. On another parenting board,
where most of the members are young and first time moms, I read so
often that they will 'try breastfeeding and if it doesn't go well,
stop."

Now, normally I'm all for trying and being realistic. But at least for
me, such an attitude would have doomed us to failure. Thanks to being a
lurker here for years, I was fully prepared for the difficulties. My
attitude was "it WILL work. We WILL work through the difficult parts."
Anything else seemed to be accepting defeat before even trying.

Is that just me? Did you find the 'I will try and see" attitude worked
for you? Especially when it was difficult at first?


Oh, I totally had the, "It WILL work" thing going for both my kids. Had
I wavered at all, neither would have been breastfed--it was too dang
painful the first week the first time, and just flat out HARD the
second time. But I was raised to know that babies have a right to be
nursed, even when it's not fun, and stuck with it because it was the
thing to do. It chaps my nipples to hear people going off on how
extended nursing is for the mom's benefit--it frankly drives me up the
wall almost as much as my toddler's teeth, but my toddler *needs* my
milk to an extreme degree, and so I put up with biting, pinching and
pulling happening at every damn feed because she needs it. Or rather, I
deal with it, I dont' really put up with it, but it keeps happening
anyway. If it were all about what makes me feel good, this child would
not be allowed within 10 feet of my breasts. But it's worth it, because
she's catching up on some of her milestones, her hearing is improving,
she's doing *so* much better than anyone could have predicted, and I
strongly suspect that breastfeeding has a lot to do with it. So we
persist, pinchy grabby bity baby and all.

I enjoyed nursing my older daughter for about 2 years of our 6 year
nursing relationship. I tolerated it gracefully for about 3 1/2 years
of it. And I spent about 6 months at various times feeling like playing
keepaway with the boobie.

With dd2, I enjoyed it for about 4 blissful weeks when she was not
biting and I was not weighing her and she had no teeth and I didn't
have to pump and she seemed to be nursing well most of the time without
choking and gagging. She's 17 months old. I spent 4 1/2 months teaching
her to nurse, 1 month enjoying it, 1 month panicking because she had
learned to latch about as well as I thought we could get and still
wasn't gaining, 2 months being vaguely depressed that she gained better
on supplemental coconut milk than on breastmilk, and then the biting
started. So doing the math, that's 1 month of "rather pleasant" and 16
months of, "Because she needs it"...and counting.

Nothing, NOTHING could have prepared me for this nursing
relationship--but it's *still* better than formula, especially for this
baby. I strongly suspect she'd have been hospitalized multiple times if
she'd been formula-fed, due to aspiration.


You nursed until your child was six? Wow.

For me, if I hadn't been really determined and had lots of support, I
probably wouldn't have continued breastfeeding past the first week or
two. It REALLY hurt, I have an inverted nipple that hurt even more than
the 'good' one, and I was doing the emotional roller coaster thing for
the first three weeks. But my husband was there to encourage me and
help however he could (he was home with us for the first five weeks), I
had access to lactation consultants at a mother/baby clinic at our
maternity hospital, and public health nurses who could visit me at
home.

I have an aversion to asking for help, but my husband pushed me to take
advantage of the help that was available, and that really made a big
difference.

Today, my boy is nearly five months old, about 22 pounds, and
exclusively breastfed. And now it's easy and painless. I never have to
worry if I brought enough food for him. There's no warming, no mixing,
no sterilization required, it's always there, always ready, and it's
FREE.

My only concern now is teeth. He's got three bottom ones, but I can see
the top ones coming. I've heard that when the top ones come in it can
get painful. Anybody have any insight here?

Thanks,

KD & G

 




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