Spirited boys in cub scouts revisited

You might remember a few months ago I was asking
what we could/should do about these two rather
spirited boys in our den -- the only two whose
parents never showed.

Well, I listened to the advice at the time, but as I'm
not the den leader, I couldn't do much more than
drop a suggestion here or there. But DH and I ran
the den meetings last month, as they were for the
Tools for Fixing and Building achievement, we felt
it was reasonable to require that every boy bring
a guardian. After all, there would be hammers and
nails and saws and hot glue, and in general, we
did not want to be responsible for the safety of
anyone else's child.

Take one guess as to which two boys didn't show up?
One of them says they are moving, so they've quit
the scouts altogether. But they haven't moved yet,
and I'm betting they would have gone to the meetings
without the parent requirement. The other missed
the first meeting where they learned about the tools
and practiced using them. I think he heard so much
from the other boys about the cool bug barn they
were going to make that he insisted on coming to
that. So his parents brought him and left his 10
year old brother with him as his "adult partner"!
Grr!!!

I was pretty upset. I was helping the boys with
hot-gluing, DH was running the meeting, we had
both of our own kids there, and this brother kept
disappearing -- going off to the gym or the teacher's
lounge or wherever.

I tried not to get upset at the 10YO, as he should
not have been put in this position. I was quite upset
with the den leader though, since he's the one who
said he guessed it would be okay if the brother came
instead of the dad. To top it all off, we had to wait
20 minutes after the meeting ended for the mom to
show up to pick the kids up, and then on top of
that she didn't have the $5 materials fee! (Believe
me, even at $5, we were losing money).

So the den leader told the boy to tell his dad that
if he didn't come to the derby, the boy couldn't
race (the derby is just too crazy for unsupervised
kids running around). What happens on derby
day? The dad dropped him off by himself and
said he'd "be back later".

*sigh* Well, it's not my problem. We won't
have to run a meeting again until next year, and
the $5 isn't enough to make an issue over. I
just get miffed at irresponsible parents.

Bizby

The boy scout charter is to mentor boys, despite unhelpful parents. It's a
club for all boys, even those without the $5 and the parent with time to go
to meetings. The upside is, now your troop or den knows the parents won't
show up at all, so any disciplinary actions taken during meetings probably
won't get back to the parent. The troop leader or parents running the
meeting have free rein to rein him in.

In article ,
"bizby40" wrote:

So his parents brought him and left his 10
year old brother with him as his "adult partner"!
Grr!!!

I was pretty upset. I was helping the boys with
hot-gluing, DH was running the meeting, we had
both of our own kids there, and this brother kept
disappearing -- going off to the gym or the teacher's
lounge or wherever.

I tried not to get upset at the 10YO, as he should
not have been put in this position.

Frankly, I don't know which of the brothers I would feel worse for --
the little one who was left without appropriate parental support for
this activity, or the 10 yo who was put in this totally unacceptable
position! I used to have someone like that at one of the churches I
worked for: he'd bring a child too young for the announced activity,
and leave his older sister saying that she'd take care of him. Nothing
seemed to get through to this guy that what he was doing was unfair to
both of his kids, as well as to the adults managing the activity.

Those boys have parents who have basically abdictaed their parental role.

--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
t...
The boy scout charter is to mentor boys, despite unhelpful parents. It's
a
club for all boys, even those without the $5 and the parent with time to
go
to meetings. The upside is, now your troop or den knows the parents won't
show up at all, so any disciplinary actions taken during meetings probably
won't get back to the parent. The troop leader or parents running the
meeting have free rein to rein him in.

Yes, a friend told me I could apply to the pack for the $5
(and I suppose the $8 they never paid us from last year), but
as I said, it's not a large enough amount for us to make a
stink over. Still, it's annoying that they just stick us with
it.

As for the Boy Scout Charter -- if council is going to send
a baby-sitter for him to each meeting, they are welcome
to. Otherwise, I feel perfectly in the right to require a
parent be present at meetings where safety is an issue.

Bizby

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"bizby40" wrote:

So his parents brought him and left his 10
year old brother with him as his "adult partner"!
Grr!!!

I was pretty upset. I was helping the boys with
hot-gluing, DH was running the meeting, we had
both of our own kids there, and this brother kept
disappearing -- going off to the gym or the teacher's
lounge or wherever.

I tried not to get upset at the 10YO, as he should
not have been put in this position.

Frankly, I don't know which of the brothers I would feel worse for --
the little one who was left without appropriate parental support for
this activity, or the 10 yo who was put in this totally unacceptable
position! I used to have someone like that at one of the churches I
worked for: he'd bring a child too young for the announced activity,
and leave his older sister saying that she'd take care of him. Nothing
seemed to get through to this guy that what he was doing was unfair to
both of his kids, as well as to the adults managing the activity.

Those boys have parents who have basically abdictaed their parental role.

Yeah. You know, I like these boys actually. They aren't
bad kids. They aren't snotty or mean. They aren't bullies.
They're just too full of energy. They don't listen, they don't
follow directions, they don't stay still. It's difficult for someone
who isn't their parent, who hasn't dealt with this kind of child
before, and who hasn't had any kind of training to know how
to get through to them.

DS has a best friend who really wants to do scouting. This
kid is a good kid -- smart, likeable, and as I said, DS's best
friend. But his parents won't sign him up for *any* extra-
curricular activities unless they take place directly after school
and all they have to do is pick him up a bit later. The reason?
Well, he has two older sisters, and since the mom spends all
her time carting them around to classes and clubs and activities,
she's decided that his dad should be the one to do things with
him. And his dad won't. So, no soccer, no baseball, no
Scouts, no nothing. I understand the mom's point of view,
and sure, the dad should help out. But I feel really bad that
the boy is the one who has to pay the consequences.

Bizby

In article , Cathy Kearns
says...

The boy scout charter is to mentor boys, despite unhelpful parents. It's a
club for all boys, even those without the $5 and the parent with time to go
to meetings. The upside is, now your troop or den knows the parents won't
show up at all, so any disciplinary actions taken during meetings probably
won't get back to the parent. The troop leader or parents running the
meeting have free rein to rein him in.



Now, wait, Scouts isn't a charity. There are fees and dues just like for other
activities. And rules.

Some activities do need adult participation, the woodworking projects being a
prime example. And a parent being late to pick up a scout consistently is just
abusive.

In our Cub Scout pack, we some similar problems, and sometimes it took a call
from the Cubmaster, if a stern discussion with the Den Leader didn't help. But
it rarely got to the point. Given the message, parents shaped up or shipped
out. Some just need to be informed that BSA stands for Boy Scouts of America,
not Baby Sitters of America.

Banty

In article ,
"bizby40" wrote:

*sigh* Well, it's not my problem. We won't
have to run a meeting again until next year, and
the $5 isn't enough to make an issue over. I
just get miffed at irresponsible parents.

I'd be a lot more miffed at the den leader, who just doesn't get it.
*Especially* when there's a safety issue. These parents won't take
responsibility unless they absolutely have to, and your den leader is wimping
out.

I feel very, very sorry for the kids. If the parents were normal, the kids
would probably be fine.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"In Melbourne there is plenty of vigour and eagerness, but there is
nothing worth being eager or vigorous about."
Francis Adams, The Australians, 1893.

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"bizby40" wrote:

*sigh* Well, it's not my problem. We won't
have to run a meeting again until next year, and
the $5 isn't enough to make an issue over. I
just get miffed at irresponsible parents.

I'd be a lot more miffed at the den leader, who just doesn't get it.
*Especially* when there's a safety issue. These parents won't take
responsibility unless they absolutely have to, and your den leader is
wimping
out.

Heh, well, that's a whole different can of worms. The
den leader doesn't. He doesn't read or reply to e-mails,
he doesn't show up at half of the pack committee
meetings, he doesn't pass along pack information to
the parents, he doesn't do much of anything.

But he's a nice guy, and he did volunteer to be leader
when no one else did. And he's never said anything
about quitting. So, we're stuck with him unless we
want to make a big issue out of it. And like I said,
he's a nice guy, so we don't want to do that.

Bizby

In article , bizby40 says...


"Chookie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"bizby40" wrote:

*sigh* Well, it's not my problem. We won't
have to run a meeting again until next year, and
the $5 isn't enough to make an issue over. I
just get miffed at irresponsible parents.

I'd be a lot more miffed at the den leader, who just doesn't get it.
*Especially* when there's a safety issue. These parents won't take
responsibility unless they absolutely have to, and your den leader is
wimping
out.

Heh, well, that's a whole different can of worms. The
den leader doesn't. He doesn't read or reply to e-mails,
he doesn't show up at half of the pack committee
meetings, he doesn't pass along pack information to
the parents, he doesn't do much of anything.

But he's a nice guy, and he did volunteer to be leader
when no one else did. And he's never said anything
about quitting. So, we're stuck with him unless we
want to make a big issue out of it. And like I said,
he's a nice guy, so we don't want to do that.


A nice guy also meaning he won't up and say anything negative to these folks,
right?

Have to talked with him about this? In person?

If you have a committee chair yet, you can talk to that person, and you can also
talk to the Cubmaster as to what kind of policy there should be. There may be
some conduit of communication, like announcements or a newsletter, where a
general statement can be placed. Nice guys (as in chicken**** seem to like
to handle these things that way - don't tell the miscreants, just sorta tell
everybody. Works sometimes.

Banty

"bizby40" wrote in message
...

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
Those boys have parents who have basically abdictaed their parental
role.

Yeah. You know, I like these boys actually. They aren't
bad kids. They aren't snotty or mean. They aren't bullies.
They're just too full of energy. They don't listen, they don't
follow directions, they don't stay still. It's difficult for someone
who isn't their parent, who hasn't dealt with this kind of child
before, and who hasn't had any kind of training to know how
to get through to them.

These parents have abdictated their parental role. But they are nice kids,
just too energetic, and not good judges of how to direct that energy. I
look at organizations like scouting and think if there are any clubs that
should reach out to kids like this, it would be scouting. Regardless of how
useless their parents are. Scouting could make a difference in the kids
life, to have a group, including adults that notices them and watches out
for them.