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Please Look for this Little Girl and Pass on This Post (translate and cross post if Possible too)



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 24th 07, 11:57 PM posted to misc.kids
deja.blues[_3_]
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Default Please Look for this Little Girl and Pass on This Post (translate and cross post if Possible too)


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...

Leaving children in a locked room is not the same as hanging a sign on
the kids neck saying "Take Me".

While it may be true that baby sitting services might have been
available, that isn't necessarily a cure-all unless you also assume
that

a) the baby sitter herself or a cohort wouldn't be the abductor and/or
wouldn't have done something harmful to the child (after all - the
parents wouldn't have the ability to check her out) and

b) that even if they had a sitter, that the sitter would have been
able to prevent the abduction.

My sister and I were traveling with my niece and we did go to dinner
in the hotel after asking for someone to sit with the baby (about a
year old at the time). The person sat outside the room in the hall.
If someone had come through the window, she wouldn't have known.

It's really easy to second guess what people do.


The parents are ultimately responsible for what happens to the kids.
These kids were unattended, in a resort, in a foreign country.
Who knows if someone had eyeballed them before, liked the girl, and grabbed
her when she was unattended?
Unattended children = accident waiting to happen. Just because you did it
before and nothing happened doesn't make it right.


  #22  
Old May 25th 07, 01:18 AM posted to misc.kids
Rosalie B.
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Default Please Look for this Little Girl and Pass on This Post (translate and cross post if Possible too)

toypup wrote:

On Thu, 24 May 2007 22:03:09 GMT, Rosalie B. wrote:

toypup wrote:


While it may be true that baby sitting services might have been
available, that isn't necessarily a cure-all unless you also assume
that

a) the baby sitter herself or a cohort wouldn't be the abductor and/or
wouldn't have done something harmful to the child (after all - the
parents wouldn't have the ability to check her out) and


They didn't need to use the sitter at all. They could have had one of the
adults in their group watch the child.


People keep saying this, but I don't think it is much of an option at
all. It wouldn't be much of a vacation for that designated adult. I
wouldn't want to ask someone else to do it and I wouldn't want to do
it myself and certainly not for someone else's child.

I have not read about this incident anywhere except in this ng. I
don't even know what country the resort was in, but I think the resort
bears some responsibility here. Why were the windows so accessible.
Were they on the first floor?


b) that even if they had a sitter, that the sitter would have been
able to prevent the abduction.


An abductor would more likely take an unattended child, if one was
available. If you were a purse snactcher, would you take one you see left
unguarded on a bench or one that is sitting next to its owner? If you were
a purse snatcher but you weren't hunting for a purse and you happened to
see one laying there unattended, wouldn't you take it just because it was
there? There are lots of criminals who do crime just because the
opportunity is there.

I do not think this is a valid analogy. No one snatches a child just
because they see one unattended. (I'm thinking of the O' Henry story
"The Ransom of Red Chief"

http://fiction.eserver.org/short/ran...red_chief.html

They are either after ransom, or they have some deranged idea in mind.

Would you leave your wallet on the bench unattended because the crook could
pick-pocket you if you had it in your purse anyway? Don't you think the
chances of you losing your wallet is a lot greater when you leave it
unattended as opposed to taking it with you? If you take it with you, does
it mean you will never lose it to a thief? Of course not. It does lessen
your chances of losing it, though.


My sister and I were traveling with my niece and we did go to dinner
in the hotel after asking for someone to sit with the baby (about a
year old at the time). The person sat outside the room in the hall.
If someone had come through the window, she wouldn't have known.


Yes, but you didn't leave the baby locked in the room alone unwatched.
Why? Because it's too risky.


No we didn't leave the baby unwatched because it was too risky. It
wasn't. She wasn't walking yet, and we were on the 6th floor. We were
afraid she'd wake up and scream her head off and bother the other
guests.
  #23  
Old May 25th 07, 02:03 AM posted to misc.kids
toypup
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Default Please Look for this Little Girl and Pass on This Post (translate and cross post if Possible too)

On Fri, 25 May 2007 00:18:28 GMT, Rosalie B. wrote:

toypup wrote:

On Thu, 24 May 2007 22:03:09 GMT, Rosalie B. wrote:

toypup wrote:


While it may be true that baby sitting services might have been
available, that isn't necessarily a cure-all unless you also assume
that

a) the baby sitter herself or a cohort wouldn't be the abductor and/or
wouldn't have done something harmful to the child (after all - the
parents wouldn't have the ability to check her out) and


They didn't need to use the sitter at all. They could have had one of the
adults in their group watch the child.


People keep saying this, but I don't think it is much of an option at
all. It wouldn't be much of a vacation for that designated adult. I
wouldn't want to ask someone else to do it and I wouldn't want to do
it myself and certainly not for someone else's child.


There are two parents. If they don't want to watch their own children or
get one of their friends to do it just because they are on vacation, they
should leave the children at home or not be on vacation.

An abductor would more likely take an unattended child, if one was
available. If you were a purse snactcher, would you take one you see left
unguarded on a bench or one that is sitting next to its owner? If you were
a purse snatcher but you weren't hunting for a purse and you happened to
see one laying there unattended, wouldn't you take it just because it was
there? There are lots of criminals who do crime just because the
opportunity is there.

I do not think this is a valid analogy. No one snatches a child just
because they see one unattended. (I'm thinking of the O' Henry story
"The Ransom of Red Chief"


No one? This one did. What more glaring example do you need? A child
abductor would more likely snatch a child if the opportunity were there
than when it is not. He most likely would not have done it were there an
adult sitting in the room. Most criminals commit crimes when they have the
least chance of getting caught. If this abductor was brazen, he would have
snatched one off the streets in broad daylight. No, he snatched one that
was sleeping alone with two toddlers.
  #24  
Old May 25th 07, 04:47 AM posted to misc.kids
Rosalie B.
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Posts: 984
Default Please Look for this Little Girl and Pass on This Post (translate and cross post if Possible too)

toypup wrote:

On Fri, 25 May 2007 00:18:28 GMT, Rosalie B. wrote:

toypup wrote:

On Thu, 24 May 2007 22:03:09 GMT, Rosalie B. wrote:

toypup wrote:

While it may be true that baby sitting services might have been
available, that isn't necessarily a cure-all unless you also assume
that

a) the baby sitter herself or a cohort wouldn't be the abductor and/or
wouldn't have done something harmful to the child (after all - the
parents wouldn't have the ability to check her out) and

They didn't need to use the sitter at all. They could have had one of the
adults in their group watch the child.


People keep saying this, but I don't think it is much of an option at
all. It wouldn't be much of a vacation for that designated adult. I
wouldn't want to ask someone else to do it and I wouldn't want to do
it myself and certainly not for someone else's child.


There are two parents. If they don't want to watch their own children or
get one of their friends to do it just because they are on vacation, they
should leave the children at home or not be on vacation.

I wouldn't have wanted to be left behind to watch the kids like some
kind of au pair if I was on vacation. I myself would have probably
paid a sitter.

But I am unwilling to concede that either of us has the right to tell
other parents what they should do or not do with their vacation or
whether they should take their children on vacation with them.

An abductor would more likely take an unattended child, if one was
available. If you were a purse snactcher, would you take one you see left
unguarded on a bench or one that is sitting next to its owner? If you were
a purse snatcher but you weren't hunting for a purse and you happened to
see one laying there unattended, wouldn't you take it just because it was
there? There are lots of criminals who do crime just because the
opportunity is there.

I do not think this is a valid analogy. No one snatches a child just
because they see one unattended. (I'm thinking of the O' Henry story
"The Ransom of Red Chief"


No one? This one did. What more glaring example do you need? A child


The Ransom of Red Chief is FICTION.

abductor would more likely snatch a child if the opportunity were there
than when it is not. He most likely would not have done it were there an
adult sitting in the room. Most criminals commit crimes when they have the
least chance of getting caught. If this abductor was brazen, he would have
snatched one off the streets in broad daylight. No, he snatched one that
was sleeping alone with two toddlers.


If the child was with two toddlers, she was not alone. Elizabeth
Smart wasn't alone either BTW - I think her sister was in the room
with her.

Snatching a child who is playing outside or taking a child from a
store or on the way home from school is completely different from
taking a baby from inside a room at a resort.

But I'd like to know why you think people of whatever age that are
asleep in a resort room are available to criminals?? If the child
could be taken from the room, then valuables could also be taken.
Robbery is one thing that the resort needs to be aware of and/or
prevent, which means not only security of the doors, but also of the
windows. Why was there not security at the windows? Do they know
for sure that it wasn't someone that had a passkey?

  #25  
Old May 25th 07, 05:51 AM posted to misc.kids
toypup
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Default Please Look for this Little Girl and Pass on This Post (translate and cross post if Possible too)

On Fri, 25 May 2007 03:47:15 GMT, Rosalie B. wrote:

toypup wrote:

On Fri, 25 May 2007 00:18:28 GMT, Rosalie B. wrote:

toypup wrote:


There are two parents. If they don't want to watch their own children or
get one of their friends to do it just because they are on vacation, they
should leave the children at home or not be on vacation.

I wouldn't have wanted to be left behind to watch the kids like some
kind of au pair if I was on vacation. I myself would have probably
paid a sitter.

But I am unwilling to concede that either of us has the right to tell
other parents what they should do or not do with their vacation or
whether they should take their children on vacation with them.


What about parents who leave their young children home alone to go on
vacation? At some point, you must have an opinion about their decision.
At least the authorities have an opinion. Those children are taken away.


I do not think this is a valid analogy. No one snatches a child just
because they see one unattended. (I'm thinking of the O' Henry story
"The Ransom of Red Chief"


No one? This one did. What more glaring example do you need? A child


The Ransom of Red Chief is FICTION.


I am talking about this abducted girl, not Ransom of Red Chief.

If the child was with two toddlers, she was not alone. Elizabeth
Smart wasn't alone either BTW - I think her sister was in the room
with her.


Good grief. What can two toddlers do to stop a kidnapper?

As for Elizabeth Smart, I am not saying an adult in the house is a
guarantee against kidnapping. It certainly is a deterrent. A kidnapper
who has a choice of two equally desirable children would presumably choose
the one who is unattended.

But I'd like to know why you think people of whatever age that are
asleep in a resort room are available to criminals??


Unattended children are easy prey. They are also a recipe for disaster.
Even if the girl was not kidnapped right out of the room, she could have
been frightened of not seeing her parents, being in a strange room, and
went looking for her parents. The hotel could have burned down.

Yes, those things can happen regardless of having an adult there or not.
However, an adult would more likely take the proper actions to save the
family. If children can manage, then why do parents, daycare, sitters and
nannies exist? Why not leave them home alone all the time?


If the child
could be taken from the room, then valuables could also be taken.
Robbery is one thing that the resort needs to be aware of and/or
prevent, which means not only security of the doors, but also of the
windows. Why was there not security at the windows? Do they know
for sure that it wasn't someone that had a passkey?


A resort is a location not familiar to most tourists. They don't know the
locale, the safety of the area. Why leave their children in an unfamiliar
area where the security may be lacking? I would not care if my valuables
were stolen. Whatever valuables I do care about are with me when I leave
the room. Nothing is more valuable than my children.

As for the window, the window was open when the parents came back to check
on them and they assume that is how the kidnapper got the child. I am
assuming that since it was a window that was open and they assumed the
kidnapping happened through there, that this was a bottom floor. Perhaps
the kidnapper could observe that the children were alone through the
window.
  #26  
Old May 25th 07, 12:55 PM posted to misc.kids
deja.blues[_3_]
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Posts: 42
Default Please Look for this Little Girl and Pass on This Post (translate and cross post if Possible too)


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
I have not read about this incident anywhere except in this ng. I
don't even know what country the resort was in, but I think the resort
bears some responsibility here. Why were the windows so accessible.
Were they on the first floor?


You really ought to read the news accounts before posting then! The parents
are receiving a fair amount of criticism because of their actions.


  #27  
Old May 25th 07, 02:28 PM posted to misc.kids
Rosalie B.
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Default Please Look for this Little Girl and Pass on This Post (translate and cross post if Possible too)

"deja.blues" wrote:

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .
I have not read about this incident anywhere except in this ng. I
don't even know what country the resort was in, but I think the resort
bears some responsibility here. Why were the windows so accessible.
Were they on the first floor?


You really ought to read the news accounts before posting then! The parents
are receiving a fair amount of criticism because of their actions.

I'm not interested in what happened. It is not important except to
the people involved.

What I am against is judging parents on the basis of news reports, and
saying things like

They practically hung a sign on her saying "TAKE ME".


Leaving a child in a locked room with two other children (and as for
what the other children could do - they could wake up and cry and that
would attract other people's attention) while you go to dinner is NOT
the same as letting a child play in traffic or leaving the children
alone at home while going on vacation.

It's just fear-mongering.

No matter how careful a parent is, there is always going to be
something that you haven't thought of or have failed to do, and your
child may be hurt or killed as a result. Parents are just human.

Pointing fingers after the fact doesn't help. It doesn't even help to
be sure that other parents won't do the same thing. The parents that
it affects are the same ones that are ALREADY doing everything they
can.

  #28  
Old May 25th 07, 02:45 PM posted to misc.kids
Banty
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Default Please Look for this Little Girl and Pass on This Post (translate and cross post if Possible too)

In article , Rosalie B. says...


They didn't need to use the sitter at all. They could have had one of the
adults in their group watch the child.


People keep saying this, but I don't think it is much of an option at
all. It wouldn't be much of a vacation for that designated adult. I
wouldn't want to ask someone else to do it and I wouldn't want to do
it myself and certainly not for someone else's child.


I don't know about this incident much. But, c'mon - why not. Trading off with
other adults is one common way people go about activities with young children in
tow. It's one dinner, not a whole vacation to be "not much of..". People do it
as weddings, at dinners, at fairs - many venues, and often as a back up plan if
one or more kids act up.

Banty

  #29  
Old May 25th 07, 11:39 PM posted to misc.kids
Penny Gaines
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Default Please Look for this Little Girl and Pass on This Post (translateand cross post if Possible too)

Rosalie B. wrote:
[snip]
I have not read about this incident anywhere except in this ng. I
don't even know what country the resort was in, but I think the resort
bears some responsibility here. Why were the windows so accessible.
Were they on the first floor?

[snip]

It's a major news story in the UK. The family was on holiday in
Portugal, staying in a holiday complex. The villa and the restaurent
where they were eating were both in the complex.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three
  #30  
Old May 29th 07, 08:28 PM posted to misc.kids
Boliath
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Default Please Look for this Little Girl and Pass on This Post (translateand cross post if Possible too)

deja.blues wrote:
"Boliath" wrote
deja.blues wrote:
"Carol T" wrote

If you have this child or know who does, you are responsible for
keeping two doctors away from their work

Would I want two such irresponsible people to be in charge of my medical
care?
The parents shirked their responsibilty by choosing to go out to dinner
and leave three small children alone. I'm sorry for the child and her
siblings, but not for the parents.


Nice judgment there. You know the family personally do you? You were there
and can make the call that they were irresponsible?

This family are suffering tremendous loss and anguish, the last thing they
need is this kind of peanut gallery judgment.


Have you read the news story? They practically hung a sign on her saying
"TAKE ME".


Yes I have followed the news story, I am familiar with the area in
Portugal so it drew my attention from the beginning.

I'm not suggesting that the parents were completely innocent of blame,
they did leave their children alone while they ate a meal some distance
away, it's not something I would do and they have paid a terrible price,
I feel badly for them and this poor child.

I do not agree, however, with casting judgment based on media reports,
the media is ridiculous, they want to see papers or get you to watch
their show/visit their site. In this clamour for your attention the
truth is often misrepresented in favour of melodrama and sensation.
 




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