A Parenting & kids forum. ParentingBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » ParentingBanter.com forum » misc.kids » Kids Health
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old December 18th 03, 06:21 AM
PF Riley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:37:08 GMT, "Roger Schlafly"
wrote:

"David Wright" wrote
After 7 days they had the option of stopping the medication or
continuing for 3 more weeks. All the patients reported that the
drug helped and all chose to continue taking it.
It sounds like they were all addicted.

Only in Schlafly-land. To me, it sounds like the meds were working
and they decided to stick with 'em. No doubt, had you been part of
the study, you would have said "gee, these are working but I'm
afraid that's addiction" and taken a pass.


It is common for addicts to deny that they are addicted. Note that
every single one wanted to stay on ritalin.


You are such a moron.

Ask your mother if she's addicted to Ritalin. She'll say she's not.
Therefore, she is, by your logic.

PF
  #12  
Old December 18th 03, 06:35 AM
JG
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue

"PF Riley" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 04:52:32 GMT, "JG" wrote:


...Imagine that, a stimulant helping beat fatigue! What'll they

think
of next?!? g When are they gonna test meth, or crack?


Maybe... and I'd bet it would prove "useful" in this case.


Exactly my point. Granted, the side effects might make meth a bit
rougher than Ritalin, but their actions dopamine are about the same.

We seem to
give quite a bit of leniency towards cancer patients when it comes to
giving them drugs.


And well we should. How idiotic is it to tell someone with a terminal
illness what the heck he can/can't put in his body?!?

I can imagine myself, God forbid, undergoing cancer treatment...
smoking pot for the pain and anorexia and crank for the fatigue.
Wahooo!!!!!


The usually bozoish Ninth Circuit would likely agree:

Appeals court sets aside federal marijuana law
(from www.reutershealth.com; Health eLine, 12/17/03)
By Adam Tanner

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - A federal appeals court allowed two very sick
California women on Tuesday to use marijuana, setting aside longstanding
federal drug laws that bar such cultivation even for medical purposes.

Growing marijuana for medical purposes is legal in California under a
1996 voter-approved state law, but the measure clashes with federal law.

Angel Raich, who has an inoperable brain tumor, and Diane Monson, who
suffers from severe back pain, last year sued U.S. Attorney General John
Ashcroft. They sought an injunction against the act, saying the 1970
federal Controlled Substances Act was unconstitutional.

A district court ruled against the women in March, but in a rare
afternoon ruling, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco
reversed the decision.

"We find that the appellants' class of activities -- the intrastate
noncommercial cultivation, possession and use of marijuana for personal
medical purposes on the advice of a physician -- is, in fact, different
in kind from drug trafficking," the three-judge panel ruled.

"Further, the limited medical use of marijuana as recommended by a
physician arguably does not raise the same policy concerns regarding the
spread of drug abuse."

The liberal court, with one judge dissenting, said the Controlled
Substances Act was likely unconstitutional as applied to the women.

"We find that the appellants have made a strong showing of the
likelihood of success on the merits of their case," the decision read.
"We find that the hardship and public interest factors tip sharply in
the appellants' favor."

In his dissent, Judge C. Arlen Beam wrote: "Plaintiffs do not show there
is a threat of future prosecution or a history of past prosecutions, at
least as applied to their unique factual situations. I would doubt
whether anyone can or will seriously argue that the DEA intends to
prosecute these two seriously ill individuals."

The Supreme Court has often overturned the 9th Circuit on cases it has
chosen to review, and lower court decisions on marijuana have sometimes
provoked anger from the Bush administration.

One such instance that irked White House officials involved a federal
judge sentencing "ganja guru" Ed Rosenthal in June to a single day in
jail -- the minimum possible punishment -- for growing marijuana in
violation of federal law.


  #13  
Old December 18th 03, 06:58 AM
Roger Schlafly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue

Angel Raich, who has an inoperable brain tumor, and Diane Monson, who
suffers from severe back pain, last year sued U.S. Attorney General John
Ashcroft. They sought an injunction against the act, saying the 1970
federal Controlled Substances Act was unconstitutional.


Yes, they got a kooky opinion from the same judge who tried to
cancel the recent California governor's election.

But note that they sued the feds to get their attention. They were
not being prosecuted. They were free to grow marijuana for their
own consumption anyway.


  #14  
Old December 18th 03, 07:03 AM
Roger Schlafly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue

"David Wright" wrote
It is common for addicts to deny that they are addicted. Note that
every single one wanted to stay on ritalin.

As Mark pointed out, they were not on addictive doses ...


That was Mark's speculation. The study did not say that, or
test whether anyone was addicted. What we know is that all
of the subjects, when given the opportunity to get off the drugs,
stayed on them.


  #15  
Old December 18th 03, 07:15 AM
jake
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default grisi siknes-doctors baffled-healers cure


Nicaragua village in grip of madness

http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...108463,00.html

Doctors and traditional healers reach remote jungle community where 60
people are suffering from mysterious collective mania

Rupert Widdicombe
Wednesday December 17, 2003
The Guardian

A team of doctors, psychiatrists, and anthropologists have reached a
remote Miskito community in the jungles of northern Nicaragua where 60
people are suffering from a mysterious "collective madness".
The outbreak of the malady, known as grisi siknis in the local Miskut
language, began in the Raiti community near the Honduran border a
month ago. Seven cases were reported in neighbouring Namahka last
week, where one 15-year-old girl is said to have died.

Other cases have appeared in three other nearby communities.

In all cases, the patients have the same symptoms: long periods of
coma-like unconsciousness, interrupted by sudden bouts of frenzied
behaviour.

During the attacks, sufferers attempt to flee their communities with
their eyes closed, seizing any weapon they can find with which they
appear to try to defend themselves against invisible attackers.

According to local press reports, they have extraordinary strength and
often four people are required to restrain them.

Community leaders in Raiti claim the outbreak of grisi siknis is the
result of a curse. In Namahka, the seven affected are all girls aged
14 to 18. Unconfirmed reports say the girl who died was Isabel Wislop.
She fled across the Coco river into Honduras, reaching the village of
Panzap where she died.

The Nicaraguan government sent a medical team to Raiti including
anthropologists and traditional healers.

The Nicaraguan health minister, José Antonio Alvarado, said the
Miskito healers sent to Raiti were getting better results than those
trained in western medicine.

"If [the affected] are given anti-convulsive drugs or anti-depressants
there is no improvement, but if they are given remedies by the healer
they feel better," he said.

The medical team has taken samples of water from local wells and
recommended that people only drink coconut juice until they have
tested the supply.

Mr Alvarado said a medical report carried out in the late 1950s after
a similar outbreak concluded that deliberate contamination of wells
was one possible cause. "There are citizens that put hallucinogenic
substances in the well water that when combined with the
anthropological aspects [of the disease] can exacerbate people's
behaviour."

The medical team is being led by Florence Levy, the region's health
director.

She said there was no indication that a virus was responsible, but
many different tests were being carried out.

Dr Levy confirmed that the Miskito healers were leading the fight to
bring the outbreak under control.

"There's not much our doctors can do; we are giving support to the
healers as they know the problem better than us," she said.

"The population doesn't make use of [the Nicaraguan health service],
because the illness is more spiritual than physical, so they turn to
the healer for the spiritual part."

The last major outbreak of grisi siknis began in 1910 and affected
dozens of Miskito communities throughout the region for 20 years.

It is estimated that some 25,000 people live in the Miskito
communities on the banks or the Coco river.

Three years ago about 80 people were affected in the community of Krin
Krin. Many were successfully treated by a healer, Carlos Salomon
Taylor, who is part of the team now working in Raiti.

Mr Taylor is said to have demanded - and received - more than $700
from the health ministry for his services. He claims that his
treatment, which involves local plants and ancestral rituals, cures
most sufferers in 15 to 30 days.

Mr Taylor is one of five healers sent to Raiti, where 25 of the 60
sufferers are said to be responding well to treatment.

Grisi siknis has been the subject of anthropological studies and is
defined as a culture-specific malady found only in the Miskito
culture, although with many similarities to pibloktoq, or "arctic
hysteria", found in indigenous peoples of Greenland.

"Western health care people have often been sceptical of these
attacks, labelling them 'mass hysteria', or simply 'those crazy-acting
Miskito people'," said Professor Phil Dennis, an anthropologist at
Texas Tech University who spent two years studying the phenomenon in
the late 1970s. He says the attacks are very serious to those
experiencing them and their families, and often to entire Miskito
communities. He witnessed four attacks during his research and said
the patients were "clearly in another state of reality".

According to Prof Dennis, grisi siknis is a "culture-bound syndrome"
unique to the Miskito, comparable to anorexia nervosa which is known
only in the affluent west. "The culture-bound syndromes force us to
realize that health and disease are not simple biological matters, but
a complex interweaving of various aspects of being human. Grisi siknis
is a very serious health problem for Miskito people."



  #16  
Old December 18th 03, 03:39 PM
Marciosos6 Probertiosos6
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue


"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
...
"David Wright" wrote
It is common for addicts to deny that they are addicted. Note that
every single one wanted to stay on ritalin.

As Mark pointed out, they were not on addictive doses ...


That was Mark's speculation. The study did not say that, or
test whether anyone was addicted. What we know is that all
of the subjects, when given the opportunity to get off the drugs,
stayed on them.


Roger, you are speculating, not me.

I am making the following assumptions, which, are reasonable to rational
people:

1. The mediation is prescribed at the customary doseage
2. It is administered in the customary manner
3. It is well accepted amongst intelligent people that wrt to MPH, the means
of ingestion does play a major role in the addictiveness of the medication.
4. You cannot read a simple sentence or come to a rational opinion on the
subject.



  #17  
Old December 18th 03, 05:24 PM
Roger Schlafly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue

"Marciosos6 Probertiosos6" wrote
I am making the following assumptions, which, are reasonable to rational
people: ...


You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.

You tried to draw conclusions about ritalin not being addictive.
The opposite conclusion is more likely.


  #18  
Old December 18th 03, 06:27 PM
JG
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue

"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
t...

"Marciosos6 Probertiosos6" wrote
I am making the following assumptions, which, are reasonable to

rational
people: ...


You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.


Yes. Effectiveness and addiction are separate issues. There's nothing
in the report that allows anyone to exclude the possibility that those
given Ritalin became addicted (under any definition of the word) to it.

You tried to draw conclusions about ritalin not being addictive.
The opposite conclusion is more likely.


I agree. There's *nothing* to indicate that the users weren't addicted,
and, while the fact they (all!) chose to continue taking it isn't proof
of addiction, it, at least, can be used to support that conclusion.


  #19  
Old December 18th 03, 08:15 PM
Jon Quixote
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue

"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
t...
"Marciosos6 Probertiosos6" wrote
I am making the following assumptions, which, are reasonable to rational
people: ...


You are also assuming that the subjects were not addicted. Maybe
they were and maybe they weren't. The study only says that they
all failed to get off the drugs when given the opportunity.


No, the study says that they continued to avail themselves of the drugs when
given the option.

"After 7 days they had the option of stopping the medication or continuing
for 3 more weeks. All the
patients reported that the drug helped and all chose to continue taking it."

Your sentence construction implies the patients were given the opportunity
to try to "get off" of the drugs and failed at the attempt. AFAIK, one
cannot personally fail at something if one doesn't attempt to try in the
first place.

They were given two choices. They made their choice. Whether the choice was
"coerced" by addiction or for the reason(s) as stated is something that
cannot be honestly determined without you personally testing and
interviewing the patients.

You tried to draw conclusions about ritalin not being addictive.
The opposite conclusion is more likely.



I disagree, obviously. There is insufficient data regarding YOUR assertion,
but at least one verifiable fact supporting those who disagree with your
assertion. The study states the patients *chose* to continue, and chose
because of feeling that the drug "helped". You are adding speculation that
they in actuality had no choice due to addiction - but that IS all that it
is: speculation, and not fact (as reported in the study).

You may draw your own "likely" conclusion based on whatever outside facts or
rationale you wish, but this particular study doesn't bear out your
conclusion.

Either you accept the study as factual and accurate in relaying their
observations, in which case you accept the patient's assertion that they
made their choice as stated and not out of addiction, or you reject the
study as factual or complete - in which case, without sufficient facts you
can make no conclusions directly related to the study results, you can only
"conclude" that the study itself was flawed in your estimation. Or at best
decide that the results are contradictory to other studies.

Finally, note the phrasing of the patient's statements - the drug "helped".
Not "caused a craving". Not "made them feel great". It helped lessen the
severity of the cancer treatment side effects.

The desire for cessation or alleviation of severely life-affecting symptoms
and the use of medication towards that end does not affirm nor deny the
possibility of addiction in and of itself, I agree - but if the observers
AND the patients report only that the use of the drug appears desirable
because it helps alleviate other symptoms, then it's more likely they aren't
addicted - as the study is phrased.

--
Jon Quixote
What is axiomatic frequently isn't.



  #20  
Old December 18th 03, 08:26 PM
David Wright
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ritalin Helps Beat Cancer Fatigue

In article ,
Roger Schlafly wrote:
Angel Raich, who has an inoperable brain tumor, and Diane Monson, who
suffers from severe back pain, last year sued U.S. Attorney General John
Ashcroft. They sought an injunction against the act, saying the 1970
federal Controlled Substances Act was unconstitutional.


Yes, they got a kooky opinion from the same judge who tried to
cancel the recent California governor's election.

But note that they sued the feds to get their attention. They were
not being prosecuted. They were free to grow marijuana for their
own consumption anyway.


But not free from the concern that the Feds would prosecute them
anyway.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)






 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Great Birth Robbery (also: Harvard magnet osteoarthritis treatment study) Todd Gastaldo Pregnancy 2 April 30th 04 07:38 PM
Circumcision as abuse nahasafeemapetelan Pregnancy 30 April 9th 04 02:48 AM
Ritalin is NOT Addictive when taken as prescribed Marko Proberto Kids Health 101 October 25th 03 06:59 PM
....Hmmmm black market Ritalin, Adderral etc. placebos?? Fern5827 Kids Health 2 October 21st 03 01:34 AM
look Goran Kids Health 0 August 30th 03 06:51 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 ParentingBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.