Dunderheaded no-spanks

With their precious studies fast gathering dust and increased
questioning of the validity of research (the pain alleviator Vioxx and
once promising stem cell among more recent newsworthy examples),
dimwitted no-spanks have yet to figure out that parents only want
something they can easily and effectively use. That has been
conspicuously absent from the no-spank dog and pony show. Until
no-spanks come up with something that is parent-proof and which parents
will use, kid's bottoms will continue to be fair game.

No one in their right mind is going to wade through esoteric studies,
often written to impress academic peers rather than serving any more
useful purpose, when authors more in touch with reality offer more
easily understood and straightforward solutions. Not even
schoolteachers read no-spank studies. Usually a mindless synopsis is
regurgitate in lectures or summarized in other texts. Like trinkets in
a Victorian living room, the stuff mostly gathers dust on back shelves
of research libraries.

Calling parents stupid is no substitute for producing an uncomplicated
alternative. Even McDonalds could simplify a cash register keyboard
when schools began dumbing down the workforce. So, what's wrong with
no-spanks? The answer is most no-spanks are uncomfortable working with
the complexities of human interaction. They like pencil and paper
solutions where there is one and only one right answer. They also like
feeling superior.

If public school alumni cannot read and understand statistics, or
anything else, it is because monopolistic public school system failed
to teach that skill. As a result, no-spanks in education have no one
to blame but themselves for that failure among others. Critics have
described public education as the equivalent of sentencing every child
to a 13-year prison sentence simply for being born in America. Others
have portrayed public educators as overpaid babysitters. In fact, it
was that fatal flaw in public education that justified the creation of
No Child Left Behind.

Until no-spanks come up with something that is parent-proof and which
parents will use, they will continue to be an unwelcome fringe element
in parenting. That really is the monkey on their back.

"Dunderheaded" no-spanks? R R R R R ...yes, just like I thought.
Getting more desparate by the hour.

Dunderkopf, would be more correct, or thunderheaded if you wish to use
english.

Opinions wrote:
With their precious studies fast gathering dust and increased
questioning of the validity of research (the pain alleviator Vioxx and
once promising stem cell among more recent newsworthy examples),

They were involved in spanking research?

Please post a few scientific reports for us that do NOT have
questioning of validity. There's a good ignorant lad.

Hell, physicists are still in debate over The Special and General
Theory of Relativity. You do know the originator, right? We haven't let
the argument slow down science and industry based on this theory.

http://www.bartleby.com/173/

dimwitted no-spanks have yet to figure out that parents only want
something they can easily and effectively use.

We haven't? Gosh I just saw a "no-spank," apparently not dimwitted
enough for you post exactly that....that to many parents want the easy
way quick way without giving thought and time to their child and
valuing them enough to take that time and effort. I think she might
have been named LaVonne. In fact a new poster said much the same.

The edge of your cliff is crumbling, observer. Badly.

That has been
conspicuously absent from the no-spank dog and pony show.

No, we have talked about the problem with that so cesslessly I'm
getting bored with it. Yes, we all know that parents far too often are
too lazy, or ignorant, or psychologically crippled by their own abused
childhoods to take the time and instead go for "quick and easy."

Oddly, those that do wake up, struggle through their own limitations
and give it a good try (not like you, who still are psychologically
crippled and FAILED) find out that in fact it's not only quick and
easy....it's fun, satisfying and grows the most amazingly wonderful
human beings.

It feels awfully good to have a child that isn't afraid of you and
trusts you even if they have made an error.

Until
no-spanks come up with something that is parent-proof and which parents
will use, kid's bottoms will continue to be fair game.

So our failure, that is "no-spank's" failure is now the cause for
spanking. I see.

R R R R R R R R R R R......brilliant. Absopuckeringlootily brily-ant.


No one in their right mind is going to wade through esoteric studies,
often written to impress academic peers rather than serving any more
useful purpose, when authors more in touch with reality offer more
easily understood and straightforward solutions.

Actually you made a good point. The books that have been suggested here
are not esoteric studies or written for academics. My favorite is Tom
Gordon's book. Simple, straightforward, right to the point, safe for
kids and parents, and a powerful relationship builder.

The concepts and methods have but one fault. Those who lack empathy
(often cause by childhood spankings disrupting normal human development
of that part of our psyches) often fail unless they have taken some
training where that capacity is rekindled in them.

I'll tell you the truth, observer. Despite my sparring with you you
damn near broke my heart when you talked about trying the nonpunitive
methods and failing.

I hope I didn't beat you up too much. ...I'm being serious now. I'd
feel guilty about that, because the lack of empathy is a killer for
non-blameful confrontation, good reflective listening other other
person's feelings (for validation of them), and conflict resolution.

I've criticised, gently of course, Tom's people for this, and they know
it as well. The cure?

Take a training. If the trainer fails to have you practice actual
listening skills (no, it's not just silently sitting and listening to
someone babble) then you have the wrong trainer.

I doubt you still have kids at home, but maybe you'll have, or have
now, some grandkids.

I seriously request, before the generations escape you, observer, that
you go and take a PET class. Be good to yourself. Forget my badgering
you. I was mean. (I hate people that hit kids...but can forgive them if
they truly wish to get over it and move on to something else).

Not even
schoolteachers read no-spank studies.

Sure they do. It's in the curriculum. Teacher's colleges teach
classroom management, and spanking -- CP -- is an issue, so of course
they discuss it.

They don't spend much time on it, but notice....it's you and the
screeching monkeboy that want "proofs," then refuse to believe them
when offered, and lie about what they actually say.

Once a teacher candidate gets over the hump (if they do) of dedication
to a punishment model, they are ripe for what can be taught about HOW
to manage a classroom and the children in it for the best academic
outcomes.

Usually a mindless synopsis is
regurgitate in lectures or summarized in other texts.

The only regurgiation here is something you ate years ago, couldn't
understand, and were furious and decided that minimzing and denying it
rather than accepting your limitations and working harder to find a way
to th goal. Now here you are, still with it stuck, trying to chuck it
up.

But once it's in your brain, observer, just like me, you are NOT going
to get rid of it. The difference between us probably has to do with
childhood experience...likely trauma.

Take a hanky with you when you learn how to actively listen. Not for
your story, but for the other person's. The first time you actually
experience the emotion of someone else it will stun you. I walked
around in a daze about it for a week. Empathy is NOT what you think it
is.

Like trinkets in
a Victorian living room, the stuff mostly gathers dust on back shelves
of research libraries.

Desperate aren't you?

Millions more parents learning how to parent using methods other than
pain and humiliation. Must be disappointing as hell to you to see them
escape what you couldn't.

For your grandchildren, give it a try.

Calling parents stupid is no substitute for producing an uncomplicated
alternative.

No, it's not. You right. I try not to call them that even when they
demonstrate they are. I apologize. The truth is "ignorance." And I do
not mean that negatively. Just factually.

Ignorance fossilizing over time by the effects of childhood trauma that
blocks them having access to knowledge that confounds them. It's such a
vicious circle. And it spills over from those suffering it and tends to
infect those that might escape. You and monkeyboy are prime examples.
Not only are YOU poisoned with it, you poison each other and any that
come here innocently ripe for something different that you try to get
your claws into.

Even McDonalds could simplify a cash register keyboard
when schools began dumbing down the workforce.

I'll bet you are trying to draw an analogy between McDonalds and
parenting. My investment in a low wage limited skill job would be far
less than I'd have in my newborn child. In fact, I'll let you in on a
secret. I had not a day of college until shortly after my first child
was born. Something changed. Something very important.

I got it that I suffered from ignorance of just how this beautiful
little creature worked. By the time of my second child I was carrying
him in a backpack to the classrooms with me, I was that hungry for
knowledge.

They both inspired me to learn. It was the road into mental health
work, most of it revolving around child development and dysfunctions
involved in inadequate or mistaken child rearing.

So, what's wrong with
no-spanks?

Many of us lack enough knowledge too, for the job of changing other
people's minds. But we certainly found enough to decide we would not
use pain and humiliation to raise our precious children.

The answer is most no-spanks are uncomfortable working with
the complexities of human interaction. They like pencil and paper
solutions where there is one and only one right answer. They also like
feeling superior.

Let me see. Three challenges there. I'll do each in order.

On the contrary. You must be projecting about our discomfort. It's YOU
that can't handle the complexities and seek the simple solution for
parents. You said so in this post. We LOVE those complexities. They are
our children, after all.

There is no simple one size fits all spanking solution to unwanted
behavior. We explore child development issues relevant to the child's
chronological and personal progress and look for ways to support
learning activities, which naturally, since they can't do two things
at once, supplant the unwanted activity-behavior.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
http://tinyurl.com/8wekp

These are the kinds of things I pulled from the shelves of libraries
everywhere I lived after my children were born (and a few before, even
before I had a wife) and DEVOURED.

I loved my children. They were worth it. Not just worth it, but my
shared humanity with them demanded it. Before books new mothers, in
fact little girls, devoured everything going on around them about child
care. They do it still. Watch them.

The last item, feeling superior. Hmmm....yes, I guess you could say
that. I love that my children are so unique and talented. blush And
that I might have had something to do with that. I knew other children
being born around the same time, and since, whose parents did not care
enough and those children had a bad time indeed. They were all spanked.


If public school alumni cannot read and understand statistics, or
anything else, it is because monopolistic public school system failed
to teach that skill.

Back on the sauce again? You really should speak to a rehab center
about that.

As a result, no-spanks in education have no one
to blame but themselves for that failure among others.

Failures? With over half the country stopping paddling in the schools?
Failure? With those schools that ended it enjoying increasingly good
academic scores over states that still paddle?

Critics have
described public education as the equivalent of sentencing every child
to a 13-year prison sentence simply for being born in America.

Well, you know me. I'm a strong homeschooling advocate...but then I so
enjoyed my kids I could spend everyday with them and never tire of the
wonderful experiences they were having and what they were teaching me
(that took me to mental health work...I owe much of my professional
choice to them).

Nevertheless you need to know that I also support public education. I
support ALL education for that matter. I don't think one is better than
the other, only different. And yes, public school is boring. Why? Well,
because too many teachers linger in the past, wishing they could paddle
these children into paying attention, instead of simply being good
teachers.

When I taught (yes, I taught) I found my talen in story telling. I
could tell stories and incorporate the children into them, and teach
them at the same time. I see that in a great many really good
teachers. Remember Jaimie Escalante, the math teacher? Basically he was
a profoundly talented story teller...and could capture the children in
his class.

When I say story teller, I don't mean "fiction." Jaime, just as I did,
told real life back to the kids. That's where his saying, "Stand and
Deliver" came from. He made it clear that in live if you wanted to be
something and someone, you must stand and deliver.

Take a lession from Jaimie, bless him.

Others
have portrayed public educators as overpaid babysitters.

I wonder if anyone has ever told you how coldbloodly distant you are in
your style? Always speculative and detached. No passion. No ownership
of your own opinions...could that be the reason for the new name?
Something you know, as you age, you have been missing....a solid
connection to your own identity?

In fact, it
was that fatal flaw in public education that justified the creation of
No Child Left Behind.

What fatal flaw?

It was the nonsense belief that testing told you something it doesn't.
It was a flaw that to me grew right OUT of punitive parenting and
teaching kinds of thinking.

You mean to tell me that you think no-spanks are behind the reasoning
of No Child Left Behind? One of the most authoritarian pieces of
autocratic Prussian origin 'schooling' to come along since Horace Mann?
R R R R R

Until no-spanks come up with something that is parent-proof and which
parents will use, they will continue to be an unwelcome fringe element
in parenting. That really is the monkey on their back.

Nothing is parent proof. Nothing can be created that a parent can't
misuse or fail to use when he or she lacks that human developmental
necessity, empathy, and lives in fundamental ignorance held to their
breast like a treasure of stinking ****.

I am deeply sorry (though I'm not going to let up on you) for you and
your childhood and the emptiness it's left you.

If only you knew what it's like for a child to really trust you...not
fake it, but fully trust you, no matter if they are "in trouble" but
totally trust you to keep them safe and help them get through what they
are stuck with, be it not wanted to share toys, or being pressure for
sex, and drug use.

Well, you can't know if you've not experienced it.

I hope these sessions you beg for are helping. I want your
grandchildren to break the cycle of abuse and assault on the young,
observer. I really do.

And if I have to kick your silly ass for the next few years...well,
heck, they are worth it.

All children are worth it.

Since there are folks I think I'll never reach, and you could be one,
then I have only one thing left, and you rejoined us shortly after I
moved to the next level of this effort to end child assault by parents.


I no longer support the moral and ethical appeal as the only and best
approach. I now accept and enthsiastically endorse THE LAW. We must ban
child abuse as we did slavery, and child labor, and the beating of
one's wife.

No, no, you are welcome.

Just let me know privately the first time you actually actively listen
for validation with a grandchild and how it makes you feel when they
respond as they never have before.

Best, Kane