HOMEOPATHY WORKED FOR ME

True and recent story.

Very pleasant 62 year old man, John Doe, was seen in our clinic 14 or so
months ago for hematuria (blood in his urine). Standard workup included a
cystoscopy (look into the bladder) which revealed a very concerning
appearing bladder mass. Resection/biopsy demonstrated muscle invasive
bladder cancer, high grade. Otherwise completely healthy and a completely
negative metastatic evaluation. He was counseled that the best current
treatment is cystectomy (removal of the bladder). He turned this down and
didn't want any other medical therapy including chemo or radiation. He
wanted to pursue homeopathic type remedies. Example - for pateints with
intestinal obstruction, he is an advocate of rubbing a tennis ball on your
abdomen rather than a surgical consult. So I don't know exactly what types
of "treatments" he had, but they included things like ointments, salves,
herbs, meditation, etc. It wasn't at home, either. He travelled out of
state to some "known" center for this type of stuff.

Shockingly enough, it didn't work. When he was urinating pure blood and
developing clot urinary retention, he came back. This is now over a year.
He begged for surgery. He wanted "every chance at a cure" and wanted his
bladder out ASAP. Well, it came out. He had some positive nodes that
almost suredly would have been negative last year. He had extensive disease
locally invading the pelvic sidewall and encasing some major vessels.

The good that came out of this is that he now advocates against alternative
therapies at least for life threatening conditions (he thinks they still
have a place for other conditions). Sadly, however, he was recently moved
to hospice and his days of advocacy will be tragically few.

In message , The One True Zhen Jue wrote:

One of the few, clear areas of consensus on MHA is that the
homeopathic remedies are NOT harmful, in and of themselves. *It is
possible a person may pursue homeopathy over other therapies. *In that
case, they may be delaying or completely avoiding methods which could
treat or cure their condition. *Cancer is a good example of this.

Cases on the books of children being treated with homeopathic
"cures" for Type I diabetes (after all, it's harmless isn't
it?) followed by the usual consequences of untreated Type I.

For what it's worth, most homeopathic practitioners have the
good sense to insist on parents getting real treatment for
such cases.

--
| The most important exclamation in science isn't "Eureka!" |
| The most important exclamation is "What the BLEEP?" |
+---------- D. C. Sessions ----------+

On Feb 24, 3:00 pm, The One True Zhen Jue
wrote:
On Feb 24, 1:42 pm, Citizen Jimserac wrote:



On Feb 23, 9:16 pm, Mark Probert wrote:

On Feb 23, 5:02 pm, wrote:

On Feb 23, 12:49 pm, "HCN" wrote:

Ooooh, goody... when they fail to show with science that homeopathy does
anything, just try to flood with anecdotes!

Too bad actual science fails to show that homeopathy does any good. And
there are plenty of anecdotes that homeopathy does NOT work:http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

Let us consider the scientifically valid death toll:

Homeopathy: 0 , none , nada.

Wrong, Chuckie.

http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

No doubt there are more.

Dr. Cee has made a rather good reply and
I'm curious to see YOUR response.

If Homeopathic remedies have NO molecules
of the original substance left in them,
how on earth can they harm anyone?

Either the Homeopathic remedies have
potency, or they don't - WHICH WILL IT BE?

One of the few, clear areas of consensus on MHA is that the
homeopathic remedies are NOT harmful, in and of themselves. It is
possible a person may pursue homeopathy over other therapies. In that
case, they may be delaying or completely avoiding methods which could
treat or cure their condition. Cancer is a good example of this.
Waiting to see if a homeopathic remedy will lead to a spontaneous
remission could allow a tumor to become inoperable.



Thanks
Citizen Jimserac- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Exactly. Well said!

Citizen Jimserac

On Feb 24, 1:53 pm, Citizen Jimserac wrote:
On Feb 24, 10:55 am, Mark Probert wrote:

Unfortunately Mark, in other threads I challenged
the often repeated fallacies that Homeopathy
does not work by listing numerous Homeopathic
and standard medicine research journals which
reported tests, even double blind placebo tests
which gave POSITIVE results.

I read them, and the rebuttals. I go by my statement. Being published
in a homeopathic journal means nothing, since the reviewer accepts the
fundamental precepts of homeopathy. Since I reject those, as being
against the fundamental laws of science and nature, I discount all
research showing that homeopathy "works" whatever that is supposed to
mean.

PLEASE, do NOT insult our intelligence
by repeating these fallacies.

When an advocate for homeopathy shows some intelligence, trust me, I
will not insult it. However, if an advocate for homeopathy develops
intelligence, they will stop being an advocate for homeopathy.

I understand that you hate Homeopathy
and see it as some sort of deception
and I sympathize with your position.

I do not *hate* it. I call it what it is, i.e., charlatanism.

In addition, there is most certainly the possibility
of damage from INEPT practice of Homeopathy
just as there is from M.D. errors. I OBJECT
to your apparent toleration and dismissal
of the huge number of M.D. errors,

There ya go, playing that bull**** card again, raising red herrings.
Do not put words in my mouth. When a REAL DOCTOR screws up, I expect
them to be treated accordingly. In the course of my business, I have
reported doctors to my clients who done something unethical, illegal
or improper. When I suspect that there is a question of treatment
problems, I also report it.

sometimes
resulting in death, and then your accusations
regarding injury or death from Homeopathy
as validation that it does not work.

Do learn to read for comprehension. I *PROVED* that homeopathy is
dangerous since it lulls people into avoiding possibly more effective
treatment by using utterly useless treatment. Homeopathy is so useless
it is absolutely safe, since it does nothing.

This
circular reasoning, adaption of a double standard
(heads you win, tails we lose) and other
obvious logical fallacies regarding Homeopathy

Yes, logical fallacies used by YOU and other homeo-apologists who have
no verifiable facts to use to prove that your charlatanism is
effective.

will NO LONGER be allowed to go by unnoticed
and therefore - the IDENTIFICATION of these
fallacies undermine and/or render you argumentation
invalid.

Sorry, bub, but it is you and the other apologists who use fallacious
arguments, as you have done here.


Sorry!

Yes, you should be sorry to advocate for such quackery.


Citizen Jimserac

On Feb 24, 1:42 pm, Citizen Jimserac wrote:
On Feb 23, 9:16 pm, Mark Probert wrote:



On Feb 23, 5:02 pm, wrote:

On Feb 23, 12:49 pm, "HCN" wrote:

Ooooh, goody... when they fail to show with science that homeopathy does
anything, just try to flood with anecdotes!

Too bad actual science fails to show that homeopathy does any good. And
there are plenty of anecdotes that homeopathy does NOT work:http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

Let us consider the scientifically valid death toll:

Homeopathy: 0 , none , nada.

Wrong, Chuckie.

http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

No doubt there are more.

Dr. Cee has made a rather good reply and
I'm curious to see YOUR response.

If Homeopathic remedies have NO molecules
of the original substance left in them,
how on earth can they harm anyone?

Either the Homeopathic remedies have
potency, or they don't - WHICH WILL IT BE?

Improperly framed question. If homeopathy "works" name one medical
condition that it *cures*, so long as that medical condition is one
that is not subject to spontaneous cure.

On Feb 24, 3:43*pm, "Skeptic" wrote:
True and recent story.

Very pleasant 62 year old man, John Doe, was seen in our clinic 14 or so
months ago for hematuria (blood in his urine). *Standard workup included a
cystoscopy (look into the bladder) which revealed a very concerning
appearing bladder mass. *Resection/biopsy demonstrated muscle invasive
bladder cancer, high grade. *Otherwise completely healthy and a completely
negative metastatic evaluation. *He was counseled that the best current
treatment is cystectomy (removal of the bladder). *He turned this down and
didn't want any other medical therapy including chemo or radiation. *He
wanted to pursue homeopathic type remedies. *Example - for pateints with
intestinal obstruction, he is an advocate of rubbing a tennis ball on your
abdomen rather than a surgical consult. *So I don't know exactly what types
of "treatments" he had, but they included things like ointments, salves,
herbs, meditation, etc. *It wasn't at home, either. *He travelled out of
state to some "known" center for this type of stuff.

Shockingly enough, it didn't work. *When he was urinating pure blood and
developing clot urinary retention, he came back. *This is now over a year.

On Feb 24, 7:34 pm, Mark Probert wrote:
On Feb 24, 1:42 pm, wrote:



On Feb 23, 9:16 pm, Mark Probert wrote:

On Feb 23, 5:02 pm, wrote:

On Feb 23, 12:49 pm, "HCN" wrote:

Ooooh, goody... when they fail to show with science that homeopathy does
anything, just try to flood with anecdotes!

Too bad actual science fails to show that homeopathy does any good. And
there are plenty of anecdotes that homeopathy does NOT work:http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

Let us consider the scientifically valid death toll:

Homeopathy: 0 , none , nada.

Wrong, Chuckie.

http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

No doubt there are more.

Dr. Cee has made a rather good reply and
I'm curious to see YOUR response.

If Homeopathic remedies have NO molecules
of the original substance left in them,
how on earth can they harm anyone?

Either the Homeopathic remedies have
potency, or they don't - WHICH WILL IT BE?

Improperly framed question. If homeopathy "works" name one medical
condition that it *cures*, so long as that medical condition is one
that is not subject to spontaneous cure.

Attempt to avoid the question posed and distract
attention with another question DENIED.

I repeat and AWAIT AN ANSWER:

EITHER THE HOMEOPATHIC REMEDIES HAVE
POTENCIES OR THEY DON'T.

WHICH WILL IT BE?

Citizen Jimserac

On Feb 24, 7:32 pm, Mark Probert

I read them, and the rebuttals. I go by my statement. Being published
in a homeopathic journal means nothing, since the reviewer accepts the
fundamental precepts of homeopathy. Since I reject those, as being
against the fundamental laws of science and nature, I discount all
research showing that homeopathy "works" whatever that is supposed to
mean.

Many thanks for admitting this fallacious assumption "up front".

By presupposing that ALL research in ALL Homeopathy
Journals is automatically invalid (including
even research done by NON-Homeopathists)
you have entered yourself into a realm far
darker than any quack or charlatan
and have knocked yourself OUT of any additional
discussion.

Thanks for making it easy to invalidate your position!

Citizen Jimserac

On Feb 25, 8:08*am, Citizen Jimserac wrote:
On Feb 24, 7:34 pm, Mark Probert wrote:





On Feb 24, 1:42 pm, wrote:

On Feb 23, 9:16 pm, Mark Probert wrote:

On Feb 23, 5:02 pm, wrote:

On Feb 23, 12:49 pm, "HCN" wrote:

Ooooh, goody... when they fail to show with science that homeopathy does
anything, just try to flood with anecdotes!

Too bad actual science fails to show that homeopathy does any good. *And
there are plenty of anecdotes that homeopathy does NOT work:http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

Let us consider the scientifically valid death toll:

Homeopathy: *0 , none , nada.

Wrong, Chuckie.

http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

No doubt there are more.

Dr. Cee has made a rather good reply and
I'm curious to see YOUR response.

If Homeopathic remedies have NO molecules
of the original substance left in them,
how on earth can they harm anyone?

Either the Homeopathic remedies have
potency, or they don't - WHICH WILL IT BE?

Improperly framed question. If homeopathy "works" name one medical
condition that it *cures*, so long as that medical condition is one
that is not subject to spontaneous cure.

Attempt to avoid the question posed and distract
attention with another question *DENIED.

No, I pointed out that I see through your ruse, or illogic.

I repeat and AWAIT AN ANSWER:

My, my. Control problems. Have some water.

EITHER THE HOMEOPATHIC REMEDIES HAVE
POTENCIES OR THEY DON'T.

WHICH WILL IT BE?

Hmmm...seems I touched a nerve or two. Well, no one ever claimed that
my posts were homeopathic.

Simple (just for you). As I pointed out, they are worthless, useless,
and do nothing. They have nothing in them except H2O.

However, the question you ask is bull****, as you are trying to divert
attention from the fact that homeopathy does nothing, and the evil of
homeopathy is that it is "shilled" as being "safe" with "no side
effects". What this sales pitch does is divert people who are in
depserate need of effective treatment to this bull****.

My turn.

Now, pretty please answer this one:

If homeopathy "works" name one medical condition that it *cures*, so
long as that medical condition is one that is not subject to
spontaneous cure or remission.

Play Jeopardy Song

On Feb 25, 8:37*am, Citizen Jimserac wrote:
On Feb 24, 7:32 pm, Mark Probert



I read them, and the rebuttals. I go by my statement. Being published
in a homeopathic journal means nothing, since the reviewer accepts the
fundamental precepts of homeopathy. Since I reject those, as being
against the fundamental laws of science and nature, I discount all
research showing that homeopathy "works" whatever that is supposed to
mean.

Many thanks for admitting this fallacious assumption "up front".

I do not see it as a fallacy. I see it as an a priori fundamental
truth.

By presupposing that ALL research in ALL Homeopathy
Journals is automatically invalid (including
even research done by NON-Homeopathists)
you have entered yourself into a realm far
darker than any quack or charlatan
and have knocked yourself OUT of any additional
discussion.

Thanks for making it easy to invalidate your position!

Only in your "homeopathic mind".