R R R R R R R ... too bad, dummies -- TOADJAH IT WAS COMING.

0:- wrote:

And the battle begins.

As you can see the hyuck hyuck with the on strap overalls are gathering
like a pack of rabid skunks so afraid they won't be able to keep their
dangerous spawn in line if they can't beat them into compliance.

Isn't it cute:

http://cbs5.com/local/local_story_018210510.html

clock Jan 18, 2007 6:06 pm US/Pacific
CBS 5 Poll: Majority Oppose Calif. Spanking Ban
Slideshows: View Photos Of The Day

(CBS 5 / KCBS) SAN FRANCISCO Do parents have the right to spank their
children? It is a controversial issue, and while a Bay Area lawmaker
wants it addressed in Sacramento -- a majority of those surveyed for a
new CBS 5 poll expressed opposition to a spanking ban.

In California, it's currently against the law for anyone but parents to
spank a child. A proposed new law would make it illegal for them, too,
if the child is 3 years old or younger.

Assemblywoman Sally Lieber (D-Mountain View) wants the practice of
swatting a child on the behind outlawed and is in the process of
drafting a bill to do so.

A poll of 500 Bay Area adults conducted for CBS 5 by Survey USA on
Thursday found 57% would oppose such a bill, while only 23% would
support it. The poll, with a margin of error of plus or minus 4.4%,
showed 11% undecided.

Parents at the playgroup at Parent's Place in San Francisco, non-profit
Jewish family child and parents service group, said they don't believe
in spanking young children, but they said outlawing it worries them.

Joanna Jhanda as a one year old girl, said she understands the need for
a law, but it troubles her: "There are certainly cases of extreme
abuse,and those need to be addressed. I don't know if this law would
help those children."

Victoria Wylie has a four month old and she's worried about where the
law draws the line. She said, "If someone sees me doing something.. what
they would consider spanking.. and it's not, I'm a little uncomfortable
I'd be under investigation."

The proposed law would make spanking a child under 3 misdemeanor child
abuse, an extenstion of current corporal punishment laws.

Violators could spend a year in jail, and pay up to $1000 in fines.
Enforcement is unclear.

San Francisco assistant district attorney Paul Henderson prosecutes
child abuse cases, and he welcomes a no spanking law.

"If you're going to spank your child, you need to know the limit," said
Henderson, "and you need to know that doing it in a way that's cruel or
traumatic causes injury, and that you could be prosecuted."

At the parenting classes at Parent's Place, spanking is considered the
wrong discipline. Lee Ann Slaton leads discipline classes there. She
said, "It teaches a child, if you're bigger you can hit. Violence begets
violence.. and they're not learning."

An anti-spanking law in California would be the country's first.
Supporters claim the U.S. is far behind some other nations in this
issue. According to Lieber, fifteen countries worldwide have outlawed
spanking of children, and under international law, it's considered a
human rights abuse.

Critics maintain a spanking ban is an intrusion on the family, while
supporters call it protecting a defenseless child.

(© MMVII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)

Yah just couldn't stop wallopin' on your kids for moral and intelligent
reasons, of course, you puckering Neatherthals.

Even if she loses, you stupid thugs, it's one more nail in your
puckering brutal assault of children disguised by the a self indulgent
claim of "love" for your children while you assault them. R R R R R

We're gonna getcha stupid.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...htm?source=rss


Posted on Thu, Jan. 18, 2007


No-spank bill on way

By Mike Zapler
MediaNews Sacramento Bureau

SACRAMENTO - The state Legislature is about to weigh in on a question
that stirs impassioned debate among moms and dads: Should parents spank
their children?

Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View, wants to outlaw spanking
children up to 3 years old. If she succeeds, California would become
the first state in the nation to explicitly ban parents from smacking
their kids.

Making a swat on the behind a misdemeanor might seem a bit much for
some -- and the chances of the idea becoming law appear slim, at best
-- but Lieber begs to differ.

``I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child 3 years
old or younger,'' Lieber said. ``Is it OK to whip a 1-year-old or a
6-month-old or a newborn?''

The bill, which is still being drafted, will be written broadly, she
added, prohibiting ``any striking of a child, any corporal punishment,
smacking, hitting, punching, any of that.'' Lieber said it would be a
misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in jail or a fine up to $1,000,
although a legal expert advising her on the proposal said first-time
offenders would probably only have to attend parenting classes.

The idea is encountering skepticism even before it's been formally
introduced. Beyond the debate among child psychologists -- many of whom
believe limited spanking can be effective -- the bill is sure to face
questions over how practical it is to enforce and opposition from some
legislators who generally oppose what they consider ``nanny
government.''

``Where do you stop?'' asked Assemblyman Chuck DeVore, R-Irvine, who
said he personally agrees children under 3 shouldn't be spanked but has
no desire to make it the law. ``At what point are we going to say we
should pass a bill that every parent has to read a minimum of 30
minutes every night to their child? This is right along those same
lines.''

One San Jose mother of three said she believes spanking is a poor way
to discipline children, but she also wondered whether a legislative ban
makes sense. Should a mom who slaps her misbehaving kid in the
supermarket, she asked, be liable for a crime?

``If my 6-year-old doesn't put his clothes in the hamper, I'm not going
to whack him. He just won't get his clothes washed,'' said Peggy
Hertzberg, 38, who teaches parenting classes at the YWCA. ``I think
instead of banning spanking, parents need to learn different ways of
disciplining and redirecting their children.''

Lieber conceived the idea while chatting with a family friend and legal
expert in children's issues worldwide. The friend, Thomas Nazario, said
that while banning spanking might seem like a radical step for the
United States, more than 10 European countries already do so. Sweden
was the first, in 1979.

Nazario said there's no good rationale for hitting a child under 3, so
the state should draw a ``bright line'' in the law making it clear.

``Why do we allow parents to hit a little child and not someone their
own size?'' asked Nazario, a professor at the University of San
Francisco Law School. ``Everyone in the state is protected from
physical violence, so where do you draw the line? To take a child and
spank his little butt until he starts crying, some people would define
that as physical violence.''

It's unclear how a spanking ban would be enforced. Most slapping, after
all, happens in the confines of a home, and most children up to age 3
aren't capable of reporting it.

Doctors, social workers and others who believe a child has been abused
are required by law to report it to authorities. Nazario said he and
Lieber are still debating whether to treat slapping the same way, or
simply to encourage those who witness it to report it. But in either
case, said Lieber, the law ``would allow people who view a beating to
say, `Excuse me, that's against the law.' ''

Experts in child psychology disagree over whether spanking is a
legitimate or effective way for parents to discipline their children.
Professor Robert Larzelere, who has studied child discipline for 30
years, said his research shows spanking is fine, as long as it's used
sparingly and doesn't escalate to abuse.

``If it's used in a limited way,'' the Oklahoma State University
professor said, ``it can be more effective than almost any other type
of punishment.'' He added that children 18 months old or younger
shouldn't be spanked at all, because they can't understand why it's
happening.

As for Lieber's proposal, the professor said: ``I think this proposal
is not just a step too far, it's a leap too far. At least from a
scientific perspective there really isn't any research to support the
idea that this would make things better for children.''

But Lieber is optimistic that lawmakers will find her proposal hard to
resist. For the record, she does not have children and says she was not
slapped as a child. But she does have a cat named Snoop, which her
veterinarian told her never to hit.

``And if you never hit a cat,'' Lieber said, ``you should never hit a
kid.''
Contact Mike Zapler at or (916) 441-4603.

The Mercury News is pleased to let readers post comments about a report
at the end of the article. Please increase the credibility of your post
by including your full name and city when commenting.




© 2007 MercuryNews.com and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.
http://www.mercurynews.com







http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...htm?source=rss

For many years I tried the route of reason, appeals to conscience, and
research result arguments, only to find that those that insisted on
defending spanking and advocating for it would not respond to one or
more of those.

I resisted the idea of there needing to be a law.

You can ask LaVonne if that is not true. She and I disagreed, up until
last year.

At time, being open to reasoned argument myself, and seeing that her's
were valid based on her and my own experience with attempting all the
non-anti spanking law way, it dawned on me I was wrong to expect moral
suasion to work. It doesn't.

Any more than it did with slavery, women's sufferage, or exploitation
of children.

I also predicted that law would be coming.

I watched and explained the Canadian effort. They have changed their
laws to make an incremental change, rather than all at once, but their
law is very much like this one being introduced in California.

And this law is one I don't accept as yet. I would still prefer to see
a non-punitive Swedish style law.

That might indicate I'm naive still about my countrymen and their
willingness to accept moral pursuasion.

We'll see.

So here's an update for you:

I find it amusing that The Governator himself chose not to use corporal
punishment on his children.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070120/.../spanking_bill


Back to Story - Help
Yahoo! News
Calif. lawmaker seeks ban on spanking

Sat Jan 20, 6:56 AM ET

California parents could face jail and a fine for spanking their young
children under legislation a state lawmaker has promised to introduce
next week.

Democratic Assemblywoman Sally Lieber said such a law is needed because
spanking victimizes helpless children and breeds violence in society.

"I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child," Lieber
said. "Is it OK to whip a 1-year-old or a 6-month-old or a newborn?"

Lieber said her proposal would make spanking, hitting and slapping a
child under 4 years old a misdemeanor. Adults could face up to a year
in jail and a $1,000 fine.

Aides to the assemblywoman said they are still working on a definition
for spanking.

Some Republican lawmakers called the idea ridiculous. But Gov. Arnold
Schwarzenegger said he may be receptive to it even though he has
concerns about how the ban would be enforced.

The governor said he and his wife, Maria Shriver, did not spank their
four children and used alternative methods for discipline. For example,
Schwarzenegger said they found it more effective to threaten to take
away their children's play time if they didn't do school work.

"They hate that much more than getting spanked," he told reporters
Friday in Los Angeles.

California law permits spanking by parents unless the degree of force
is excessive or not appropriate for the child's age.

Copyright © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The
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authority of The Associated Press.
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Kane himself already said this bill probably won't make it into law.