Homework for a 5 year old - how much involvement needed.

Welches wrote:

20 minutes a day? Do you mean a week? I think getting a 5yo to read
for 20 minutes each day is going to discourage an awful lot. If they
want to then fine, but 20 minutes is a long time for a new reader to
read. Certainly #1 finds reading very tiring, and she's a pretty good
reader for her age. Debbie

I'm assuming she means reading to the child at age 5? Hunter is 6 and in
1st grade and in reading recovery and they stress that his reading and
sentence strip should not take more then 10-15 minutes at the most and if it
ever takes longer then that it isn't good and I should contact them to
discuss it. It never takes more then 15 minutes and it would only take 10
if he didn't goof off or try to put it off sometimes.

--
Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
EDD 4/06

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Mary Ann wrote:

I think it depends on the child. If he is able to complete work himself
and you are both
happy with what he produces then he doesn't need to be helped. However,
if he needs encouragement to sit down and focus on a single task then
you'll need to sit with him while he
learns to work independently.

It also depends on his level of perfection. Some children may be keen
to get apsolutely everything correct and beautiful. Some may be able to
do this, while others may find it very frustrating and may need you to
step in to point out that they've done well or worked on a task long
enough.

It also depends on the school policy. Do they expect perfect work, or
at this stage are they more keen to see that the child has spent 30
minutes working on something independently?

My son is 6. At this age I think learning homework practices is more
important than the actual work he's doing. I want him to learn that
it's important he sits somewhere quietly and spends some time focussing
on the work. So, we decide when the homework will be done, sit together
and read through the task then discuss how it will be done. Some work
requires me to sit with him, while other tasks he can do himself. But I
always ask him whether he'd like me to help.
I don't want him to sit struggling while I'm cooking dinner, but want
him to know that I'm there 100% if he needs me. When he's finished I
praise him, then depending on what the task is I either ask him whether
he'd like me to show where he's made a mistake or I tell him I'm going
to go over it with him (say if it's a task I know he finds
challenging). I make sure he knows that I think he's done a great job,
but that his teacher will be even more pleased if she can see that he's
worked that extra bit harder to get it right.
I always note down when I've helped him so his teacher knows how much
input I've given.

And this is precisely why homework at this age is
such a bad thing. On the one hand, he's only six and he
probably does need substantial assistance to plan a time
to do homework, get all the resources together, figure out
what needs to be done, and do it (not to mention finding
the energy to focus after a long day at school). On the
other hand, you're setting yourself up for years and years
of being that involved with homework, which can easily
eat you alive with multiple school-aged children who
each have more and more homework every year. It's not
so much fun when you feel like you're in school all over
again. And all for something that hasn't been shown to
provide one jot of benefit.

Best wishes,
Ericka

I'm not sure what you're imagining here for what a 5 or 6 year old does
for homework. In the case of my kindergartener it's usually a couple
of worksheets where he practices writing a certain letter or number or
some type of picture matching game, etc. I don't consider the
planning, materials, or time involved to be substantial. I enjoy the
opportunity to see what's he's been learning and to provide a bit of
one on one guidance if necessary. I look forward to 'years and years'
of giving both of my kids the appropriate level of encouragement and
assistance with their studies.
As for the op's question I read the assignment to my son and let him
work as independently as possible. If there's a mistake I try to point
him in the right direction and let him figure out the details.

Caledonia wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Beth Kevles wrote:


The other useful homework is 20 minutes/day of free reading. DO help
your child on this one if your child needs help. Otherwise, just keep
an eye on what your child likes to read. (It makes gift times so much
easier if you know what they've already read!)

Yet another unintended consequence of too much
homework in the early grades. Kids don't read for
pleasure when they've had a full day of school followed
by wrestling through lots of homework. For many kids,
their mental energy is *gone* by that time.


Hmmm...Given that their mental energy is *gone*, though, does this also
mean that having kids then take dancing/karate/soccer practice/cub
scouts after school is also not a good idea? All of these require some
mental focus, too.

Not in my experience. Those things tend to be active,
and the physical release and change of pace seems to help quite
a bit. It's a different set of skills than sitting in a chair
and writing and thinking about academic stuff.

I think that 20 minutes of free reading -- or having a parent read to a
kid for 20 minutes -- is not that onerous, IMO.

Well, not for you, and not for me either, but it
sure as heck *IS* for a lot of kids. If you're an active
kid whose had to sit on his butt all day *and* make it
through a bunch of homework, he's not going to voluntarily
choose to sit some *more* so that he can read or be read
to. The poor kid wants to get out side and run around!
And he should! If you're a kid who struggles with reading,
and you've held it together through a full day of school
(with lots of reading), and through a full night of
homework (with lots of reading), the last thing you have
the energy to do is sit down and read some more.

The only activity I can
think of for someone whose mental energy is *gone* -- an entirely
passive activity that requires zilch on the part of the participant --
is watching television, which I'm pretty sure isn't what you're
suggesting.

No, I think that physical activity is *great*
under these circumstances, or even any sort of play
where they can do what they feel like doing. Between
the hours they spend in school and the time they spend
doing homework, my kids put in more than a 40 hour work
week. I think that's flat out ridiculous.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
"Barbara" wrote:

I don't understand the concept of getting ready for 3rd and 4th grade
homework in kindy and 1st grade. But that's just me. (Or then it isn't
since
I've seen such articles on the 'net).

My feeling is that kids need to practice what they've learned. I just
don't think it's unreasonable to ask a kid to do ten math problems,

@ 2 mins ea that's 20 mins....

write sentences using his spelling words,

... assuming 20 words that's probably another 20-30 mins...

read a paragraph and answer a couple of questions about it,

...say another 10 mins...

50-60 mins of "reinforcement" seems to me a bit much for Grade 3-4 (here,
that
would be 8-9yos -- I think I was doing about 30 mins at that age), and
that's
assuming the child finds these things -- and the writing -- easy. I still
remember sobbing over my 3* and 4* tables in 3rd grade, and other kids
were
probably sobbing over the word list at that time (I was a big reader and I
don't remember ever seeing an unfamiliar word on a spelling list).



For me it was the sheer frustration of jamming through another super easy
stupid reiteration of something I had gotten days ago. Anyone ever thought
that age based education is a wrong way to go?

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"In Melbourne there is plenty of vigour and eagerness, but there is
nothing worth being eager or vigorous about."
Francis Adams, The Australians, 1893.

In article .com, Caledonia
says...


Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Beth Kevles wrote:

The other useful homework is 20 minutes/day of free reading. DO help
your child on this one if your child needs help. Otherwise, just keep
an eye on what your child likes to read. (It makes gift times so much
easier if you know what they've already read!)

Yet another unintended consequence of too much
homework in the early grades. Kids don't read for
pleasure when they've had a full day of school followed
by wrestling through lots of homework. For many kids,
their mental energy is *gone* by that time.

Hmmm...Given that their mental energy is *gone*, though, does this also
mean that having kids then take dancing/karate/soccer practice/cub
scouts after school is also not a good idea? All of these require some
mental focus, too.

But these things are quite different and really don't call on the same kind of
focus. They're a big change of pace from the schooling activities.


I think that 20 minutes of free reading -- or having a parent read to a
kid for 20 minutes -- is not that onerous, IMO. The only activity I can
think of for someone whose mental energy is *gone* -- an entirely
passive activity that requires zilch on the part of the participant --
is watching television, which I'm pretty sure isn't what you're
suggesting.

Well, I didnt' take her as meaning no mental energy at all, rather just that
they can be wrung out from the kind of focus and concentration it takes to deal
heavily with symbolic things.

Banty

In article .com, lenny
fackler says...




I'm not sure what you're imagining here for what a 5 or 6 year old does
for homework. In the case of my kindergartener it's usually a couple
of worksheets where he practices writing a certain letter or number or
some type of picture matching game, etc. I don't consider the
planning, materials, or time involved to be substantial.

Past about first grade my son just couldn't settle down mentally long enough to
do that sort of thing at a long enough stretch to get it done. (And, no, he
doesn't have any issue with intelligence or ADD or anything like that.) So it
would take half the evening.

I enjoy the
opportunity to see what's he's been learning and to provide a bit of
one on one guidance if necessary. I look forward to 'years and years'
of giving both of my kids the appropriate level of encouragement and
assistance with their studies.

If you have a kid that does that in 10 minutes (or you believe in standing
there, giving him hte answers, making him scribe), maybe it works out that way.
For my family, it was enough of a burden that we had much less time for any
education other than getting those worksheets done.

Banty

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Banty wrote:

In article . com,
Barbara
says...


Banty wrote:
In article .com,
Barbara
says...

SNIP
I think homework for 5 yos is awful. So I'm not much help.

Yeah - I think she should involve herself right to the school
board.

Banty

A lot of 5 year olds are in first grade (school districts like NYC
with
a 12/31 cut-off; do any school districts still have a 1/31 cut-off?).

No I'm referring to homework being given at such a young age.

I admit I was being flippant..

Banty

I knew that!

It's just that when people refer to 5 year-olds, I think most people
think kindergarten. But in school districts with later cut-off dates,
that's not the case. NYC still has a 12/31 cut-off, so there's a lot
of 5 year olds in first grade. When I was a kid in Philly, the cut-off
was 1/31, so first grade was 1/2 over before I turned 6. While I don't
advocate a lot of homework for first graders, I don't find it
unreasonable, either.

I don't think it's reasonable or necessary in 1st grade.

Banty


I'll go further: I think that homework before about 4th grade is just
plane evil, and ought to be completely done away with.


How o How do I start such a campaign in my community? The thing is, I am
probably going overboard here. But I think that asking kids to do useless
work for the sake of nothing undermines grown up credibility. The do
something cuz I said so thing does not work to well for me. (Can you imagine
that??!!??) I want my children to grow up to be adults who can make
judgements about what needs to be done and why. Certainly there are things
in every person's life that they don't want to do. DS 4 does not want to set
the table, but he has to. But there is a reason he has to. That being that
it is right to contribute to the family. What is the reason behind having to
do homework that has never been shown to do one ounce of good? I cannot
think of any reason than because the system says so. And so, it becomes for
me, as someone who wants to back up the authority in my children's lives, a
battle not worth fighting. I will have to enforce the doing of useless
homework... just because.



There is NO evidence, anywhere, that homework before that does any good
whatsoever, and for some kids it just sets them up for homework being a
constant struggle.

--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

In article . com, Barbara
says...

Chookie wrote:
In article .com,
"Barbara" wrote:
SNIP
My feeling is that kids need to practice what they've learned. I just
don't think it's unreasonable to ask a kid to do ten math problems,

@ 2 mins ea that's 20 mins....

If it is taking your first grader 2 minutes to answer 1+3, then its
signaling you that there's a problem that you need to address.

HOW! More drill, standing there with a whip? What what?

Some kids are dawdlers. It's a developmental thing. A lot of kids lose their
focus on that kind of thing (or get perfectionistic about it). Especially when
it's drawing out the day.

It's not necessarily an actual learning issue.

They're
not doing calculus, you know. I'd give it 20 to 30 SECONDS each,
making it about 4 minutes.

Calculus can be just as easy. d(2x)/dx = come on come on this should take you a
millisecond!


write sentences using his spelling words,

... assuming 20 words that's probably another 20-30 mins...

Gosh, let's assume 500 words, then its HOURS of homework! I've never
seen a 20 word spelling list yet, and One is in 3d grade. In general,
there are 10 words, plus 4 *challenge* words that they can *choose* to
learn. That's been the case since 1st grade. And since I've always
been able to find his spelling lists all over the 'net (and this year
found a school that connects games like hangman to every list -- One
enjoys playing them), I assume its a fairly widely-used spelling
curriculum.

My son had to write a weekly composition in 3rd grade. If you think they're all
playing hangman, maybe that's why you don't get why this is a problem.

Banty

On 10 Nov 2005 09:10:50 -0800, Banty wrote:


My son had to write a weekly composition in 3rd grade. If you think they're all
playing hangman, maybe that's why you don't get why this is a problem.

Okay, now I'm wondering.... when are letter grades being given to the
kids? I never received a letter grade until Jr. High (Middle School),
and I don't think my ds did, either. I recall his "report cards"
having the options of Satisfactory, Unsatisfactory, and Needs
Improvement (although I'm not sure what the difference between
Unsatisfactory and Needs Improvement would be!).

My thinking is that until the letter grades are being given and
actually *count*, then what's the big deal with not enforcing the
homework you disagree with? I always saw the report card as nothing
more than a tool to let me see if there are areas my ds needed help
in, and not much more than that.

Nan

In article . com,
"Barbara" wrote:

I have to believe that if a kid is crying about homework, it means the
child didn't learn it in school, and it's therefore important for the
parent to know that so action can be taken -- extra help from parents,
retaining a tutor, or just letting the teacher know that the child is
struggling. I guess I find it difficult to believe that you were
crying about your 3 and 4 tables (multiplication?) at home, but
whizzing through them and getting straight A's at school. Our take is
that tears end homework -- if it's that much of a struggle, if you
really don't get the material, we'll let your teacher know so she can
help.

No, sometimes a kid is crying about homework because they just don't
want to sit and DO it. They know how, so doing it yet again feels like
a waste of time and energy.

The homework battles in our house were quite unpleasant. None of my
kids has problems with learning the material -- but the oldest hated,
HATED, doing homework from second grade on.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care