Sleep and older children

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
We do some of that, but kids with attention
issues have a hard time doing homework that requires
much focus in the midst of a restaurant, or even
sometimes in a car.

We only do quizzing at restaurants. For example, Wednesday night we
went to a mexican restaurant and that made it easy to quiz both kids on
their spanish vocabularly. The owner got into it with us.

No homework at all in the car - I can't quiz and drive, and we learned
the hard way that DD11 gets carsick too easily. :-)

jen

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...

I was specifically thinking about kids who need more alone time than
they're getting.


Hasn't there been research done, that pretty much says kids are having to do
too much extracurricular activities? If so many activities weren't done,
and they weren't sleeping the day away, wouldn't they then have more alone
time, as well as family time?

Jen

shinypenny wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
We have one of those too (a pub, in fact), though
it sounds like ours has more options with veggies. We
don't make it once a week, but we do go fairly frequently,
often with my parents--often enough that we know the
staff a little too well! ;-) I love places like that.
It feels great to support a local establishment, and
it's such a pleasant place to be. Plus, the salmon
salad and the goat cheese strudel are to die for ;-)
We have Mom's Night Out there every other month as
well.

Salmon salad and goat cheese strudel?? Doesn't sound like a pub to me -
but count me in anyway!. :-)

Well, it does also have fabulous fish and chips
and shepherd's pie and other more traditional pub fare.
Salmon's pretty Irish, eh? (This last month they've
had wild Irish salmon...yummmmmmm!) But yes, they do
have an odd assortment of things, including killer
quesadillas. Go figure ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

dragonlady wrote:
In article ,
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Of course I will intervene if they are engaging in
self-destructive behavior. Hands-off doesn't mean you aren't there to
help them, give advice, and catch them. It just means that you aren't
leading them step by step. And of course I can and will impose some
household rules, insisting that they have responsibility to go with
the freedom. I just can't imagine making hard and fast rules years in
advance (such as 'my kids won't have a job that interferes with dinner
or keeps them out until 11 or 12 on the weekends').
Well, how 'bout we have this discussion again
when we've both got kids in this age group? You can
tell me if no family dinners and late nights is working
well for your teen and I'll weigh in on whether requirements
that my teen find a way to balance obligations is working
for mine?

Can we talk about taking someone else's comments to absurd extremes?
She didn't say anything about NO family dinners, or even regular late
nights.

But nor did I say that I'd be making hard and fast
rules years in advance or wouldn't have any respect for their
needs/preferences/values/etc. ;-)

I can tell you about OUR house: as the kids got older, it was more and
more likely that they'd miss dinner at home. Eventually, one of my
kids even took an all night job, and we might go days at a time without
seeing each other. (He was out of high school by then.)

However, I think we did a pretty good job of balancing things, and,
overall, I seem to have a FAR better relationship with my 20 and 23 yo
kids than an awful lot of people have -- and even with their friends.

I LIKE my kids -- and they seem to like me.

Teen years were hardly trouble free, but we managed to find a decent
balance between their growing need for independance and still being a
family, and, in our case, that DID include some jobs (including some
that kept them up on the late side, and some that kept them out,
sometimes, during our normal dinner hour.)

I can understand that others make different choices,
and I *certainly* think that it's a different situation
when you have adult children living at home. As far as
the jobs situation goes, I understand that jobs can play
a helpful role for some, but given my kids and our situation,
I seriously doubt that my kids will be working significant
hours at jobs that will interfere with dinner or keep them
up late at night, especially during the school year. Frankly,
I'd be surprised if they wanted to given the interests they
have at this point. I would also be very surprised if they
could maintain their academics with jobs requiring late nights,
which would be wholly unacceptable. So, if by some magical
happenstance my kids could have jobs that didn't adversely
affect their academics, their relationships with family,
their activities, their friendships, and their health,
by all means they're welcome to make their case. I have
a *really* hard time seeing how that's likely to play
out given the situation we're in. I'd also drop dead
of shock if my kids would choose working for the summer
over, say, going to Interlochen (or whatever else might
be similar give their interests).

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Jen" wrote:


"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...

I was specifically thinking about kids who need more alone time than
they're getting.


Hasn't there been research done, that pretty much says kids are having to do
too much extracurricular activities? If so many activities weren't done,
and they weren't sleeping the day away, wouldn't they then have more alone
time, as well as family time?

Most of the time at that age, they are picking their activities - if
we are still talking about high school age.

And at least my kids pretty much already had a handle on how much
sleep they needed. It also helped that the girls at least were good
students and didn't have to take a whole lot of time studying.

DD#1 had a summer job at a archeological site the summer she was a
freshman. She dropped piano because she felt she didn't have enough
time to practice, but she kept on in the band, and she had a horse
that she rode and took care of, plus Pony Club and 4H. We were still
doing swim team until she was a junior. She had a job cleaning
stables one summer, and she was a breakfast waitress one summer. She
got those jobs on her own. She graduated 7th in her class

DD#2 had dropped piano already, but she was swimming, she was in the
band, she was on the track team doing shot put and discus for 2 years.
She also had a horse, which she took care of and was in Pony Club and
4H. In her junior year she took typing and German at night in adult
education classes, and in her senior year she took a college class in
the afternoon (calculus). She graduated 3rd in her class.

DD#3 dropped both clarinet and band when she started HS. We were no
longer swimming by then although she did it when she was younger. As
a freshman she was competing on the national level with her pony, and
she broke and trained her own horse. She was a working student one
summer on a horse farm when she was 16. She basically didn't do
anything else extracurricular other than horses, although she did
deliver pizza in the summer and one year she was a cook also. She
also took a college class in her senior year - in her case it was
computer programming. I can't remember whether she was in the NHS or
not, but she got reasonable grades, and got into Virginia Tech as an
out of state student in the computer science section. BTW - she's now
a professional horse trainer and judge.


grandma Rosalie

Jen wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...

Hmmm...I think statement below was written by
you, just to be clear on the attributions.
I was specifically thinking about kids who need more alone time than
they're getting.


Hasn't there been research done, that pretty much says kids are having to do
too much extracurricular activities? If so many activities weren't done,
and they weren't sleeping the day away, wouldn't they then have more alone
time, as well as family time?

Yes, there is research suggesting that there are
*some* kids (and more than previously) who are overscheduled.
However, obviously not all kids are. I would certainly
agree that overscheduled kids are having other important
things squeezed out of their lives, whether that might
be sleep or family time or alone time or homework time
or whatever. That's why I keep suggesting that balance
is key. And it's not always that kids are being forced
into being overscheduled. Lots of kids would *choose*
to be overscheduled because they have lots of
interests and their friends are doing interesting things
and such. Just because the child wants all those activities,
however, doesn't mean that it's good for them or should
be allowed just because they want it. (Heck, at some
level it's just a financial issue for many families to
afford all those activities!)
I think you really can't afford to have any
element way out of balance, especially on any consistent
basis (almost everyone goes through crunches sometimes).
Too much emphasis on any one area drives out time and
energy for other areas.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Jeanne wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

I always think it's kind of odd that we put all
this emphasis on kids participating in all these organized
sports when *very* few adults continue on with them! I
know a few folks who are very into baseball or soccer as
adults, but the vast majority of adults I know who are
active are involved in other activities like the ones you've
described above. Why don't we emphasize those more with
kids in the hopes of encouraging an interest in (and
skill with) sports that they are more likely to enjoy
for a lifetime?


Wait, wasn't there a trend in the 70's or 80's to such a thing in gym
classes? Teach lifetime sports (e.g., tennis, running, weight-lifting)
as opposed to team sports (e.g., baseball, basketball, soccer). It was
about the time that running and tennis (and then squash and racquetball)
became popular sports.

There may well have been, though it totally
missed me ;-) So far, my kids have been focused on the
usual team sports in gym at school (for the most part).
Maybe that will change as they get older. I haven't
talked to the teens at the local HS about what they're
doing in gym class. I do see them out playing soccer/
baseball/track/etc. at the HS during the school day,
though. (Well, not so much right now since they're
ripping up a lot of the outside due to a renovation...)
Or maybe the trend you describe was regional or
something.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

I do find that eating out does tend to take
longer, much of the time. That is to say, it takes
more of the kids' time. If they have a busy night
of homework and activities, going out takes a big
bite out of that between the travel time and the
waiting for food time and such.

DD#2 has her kids take their homework that isn't finished to the
restaurant to do while they are waiting for food. Some can't be done
that way (they can't practice or do term papers), but usually spelling
or math can be done there. And mine used to do it in the car or while
their sibling was having a piano lesson.

We do some of that, but kids with attention
issues have a hard time doing homework that requires
much focus in the midst of a restaurant, or even
sometimes in a car.

Or if they have car sickness issues. Fortunately, mine didn't have
any of those problems.

DD#2 does the homework with her first grader - except maybe for the
noise level I don't think it is much different than being at the
kitchen table (if they had one of those, which they don't). Actually
given the level of noise and activity in their household, a restaurant
may be quieter.

I think though that a person can often concentrate on things that they
are really interested in - it's just that homework isn't it.

grandma Rosalie

shinypenny wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote:

I always think it's kind of odd that we put all
this emphasis on kids participating in all these organized
sports when *very* few adults continue on with them! I
know a few folks who are very into baseball or soccer as
adults, but the vast majority of adults I know who are
active are involved in other activities like the ones you've
described above. Why don't we emphasize those more with
kids in the hopes of encouraging an interest in (and
skill with) sports that they are more likely to enjoy
for a lifetime?

The usual line of argument is that team sports encourage team players,
which is valuable later in a career. I get a chuckle out of that. Even
though I steered as far clear of team sports as I possibly could, in my
company I'm repeatedly the one singled out for the "team player"
reward. :-)

Well, there's also the part about how those
kids who don't do so well with team sports end up
A) being less likely to acquire habits leading to a
fit and healthy lifestyle and B) don't learn much
about teamwork as they're often marginalized when they
don't evidence enough skill ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

Rosalie B. wrote:

I think though that a person can often concentrate on things that they
are really interested in - it's just that homework isn't it.

Alas, when you have real attention issues, it
isn't just a matter of motivation. (Nor is it just a
matter of noise level. Even a relatively quiet
restaurant has endless distractions.) I know not
everyone is dealing with this sort of thing, so I'm
sure it's a great strategy for many. It just doesn't
work for us. Would that it did. Believe me, it would
make my life a *LOT* easier.

Best wishes,
Ericka