a musing - about homebirth - and moving on!

On May 4, 9:28 am, "Welches"
wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message

. ..



lucy-lu wrote:
"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...

Yeah... It was a passing thought really. All the positives I had from a
hosp birth turned me off a home birth.

I think that's an odd way to phrase it ;-) I can see why
a positive hospital birth would turn you *on* to a hospital birth,
but not sure why it would change your perception of a home birth.

I just don't really understand the difference between going to a birth
center and a delivery ward - obviously I understand there aren't the docs
etc there, but when I had Jessica, I recognised the consult on duty, one
I'd seen earlier in my pg and hated, and so refused to have him there. He
didn't interfere after that. Maybe the problem is that more women need to
take greater control and have more say in their labours. I suspect a lot
that choose to birth outside of a hospital already have this ability, and
therefore that could be a factor in their positive birth experiences?

I'm not sure that's true. There is a very different power
structure in one's home versus in a hospital. Someone who can speak
out in an environment where they are in charge is not necessarily
going to speak out in an environment where they're not running the
show. I think many people choose homebirth so they won't *have*
to fight because they know they're not good at that.

I think what Lucy is saying is that here (the UK) it is generally assumed
that you will go to hospital to have the baby (not so much by the medical
profession, but by general opinion). Someone who decides to have a home
birth will often have a lot of "do you think it's wise" sort of comments.

Also, very very very common in the US. This may vary by location, but
homebirths in my city (and amongst people I know across the US) are
unheard of.

So
(I think) what Lucy is saying is that someone who stays firm and gets a home
birth (particularly for the first birth which is harder to get) is more
likely to stand up generally for themselves wherever they labour.
Correct me if I'm wrong :-)

That is probably true. But as I said elsewhere, last thing I want to
have to do whilst in labor is fight my caregivers. I prefer to already
have a good relationship and know they respect my position on things.


This reluctance for first home births here, does also mean that you get a
number of people who will tell you that they had a dreadful first birth in
hospital and a lovely second birth at home and put it down to being at home
rather than second births being easier (vast generalisation here) which can
mean that a for lot of home v hospital birth stories people (particularly
the older generation)can be very skeptical, and make comments accordingly.

Since I sort of had both for #1 given the late transfer, I can say I
prefer home . That said, if someone is more comfortable in hospital,
go for it. As much as I'd prefer homebirths were as commonplace as in
the Netherlands, I wouldn't feel comfortable not having much choice in
the matter. Some people would be more relaxed in hospital. Indeed, my
sister's argument to me (about why my homebirth went wrong) was that
if I was in the "less stressful environment of a hospital, DD's
meconium aspiration never would have happened." 100% wrong, in that
hospital was far more stressful, but to her, the concept of laboring
and birthing at home was superstressful (and the cause of her
problems).

On May 4, 2:22 pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Welches wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
lucy-lu wrote:
"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...
Yeah... It was a passing thought really. All the positives I had from a
hosp birth turned me off a home birth.
I think that's an odd way to phrase it ;-) I can see why
a positive hospital birth would turn you *on* to a hospital birth,
but not sure why it would change your perception of a home birth.

I just don't really understand the difference between going to a birth
center and a delivery ward - obviously I understand there aren't the docs
etc there, but when I had Jessica, I recognised the consult on duty, one
I'd seen earlier in my pg and hated, and so refused to have him there. He
didn't interfere after that. Maybe the problem is that more women need to
take greater control and have more say in their labours. I suspect a lot
that choose to birth outside of a hospital already have this ability, and
therefore that could be a factor in their positive birth experiences?
I'm not sure that's true. There is a very different power
structure in one's home versus in a hospital. Someone who can speak
out in an environment where they are in charge is not necessarily
going to speak out in an environment where they're not running the
show. I think many people choose homebirth so they won't *have*
to fight because they know they're not good at that.
I think what Lucy is saying is that here (the UK) it is generally assumed
that you will go to hospital to have the baby (not so much by the medical
profession, but by general opinion). Someone who decides to have a home
birth will often have a lot of "do you think it's wise" sort of comments. So
(I think) what Lucy is saying is that someone who stays firm and gets a home
birth (particularly for the first birth which is harder to get) is more
likely to stand up generally for themselves wherever they labour.

It's like that in the US too, but I don't think it's
warranted to assume that all people who are able to stand up to
family and friends to have a homebirth are also able to stand up
to doctors and policies while in labor. I think there are two
very different scenarios, and I know plenty of normally assertive
women who felt steamrolled during labor and many women who were
not particularly assertive who chose homebirth precisely so that
they wouldn't have to be so assertive during labor to get what they
wanted.

Indeed, I felt steamrolled by my otherwise very progessive OB at 20
weeks! I nearly gave in to a hospital birth then, and no one who knows
me would suggest I lack assertiveness ;-) It took all my energy to
fight back, and fortunately I had a supportive DH. If he wavered at
all, I wouldn't have. I know in a hospital/labor setting, we both
would have given in. As it was, when transferred, I told the OB to 'do
whatever you think is necessary.' However I instantly felt a trust in
her, as did my midwife, who stayed with me throughout.

cjra wrote:
On May 4, 9:28 am, "Welches"
wrote:

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message

m...




lucy-lu wrote:

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...

Yeah... It was a passing thought really. All the positives I had from a
hosp birth turned me off a home birth.

I think that's an odd way to phrase it ;-) I can see why
a positive hospital birth would turn you *on* to a hospital birth,
but not sure why it would change your perception of a home birth.

I just don't really understand the difference between going to a birth
center and a delivery ward - obviously I understand there aren't the docs
etc there, but when I had Jessica, I recognised the consult on duty, one
I'd seen earlier in my pg and hated, and so refused to have him there. He
didn't interfere after that. Maybe the problem is that more women need to
take greater control and have more say in their labours. I suspect a lot
that choose to birth outside of a hospital already have this ability, and
therefore that could be a factor in their positive birth experiences?

I'm not sure that's true. There is a very different power
structure in one's home versus in a hospital. Someone who can speak
out in an environment where they are in charge is not necessarily
going to speak out in an environment where they're not running the
show. I think many people choose homebirth so they won't *have*
to fight because they know they're not good at that.

I think what Lucy is saying is that here (the UK) it is generally assumed
that you will go to hospital to have the baby (not so much by the medical
profession, but by general opinion). Someone who decides to have a home
birth will often have a lot of "do you think it's wise" sort of comments.


Also, very very very common in the US. This may vary by location, but
homebirths in my city (and amongst people I know across the US) are
unheard of.

I just wanted to add that it's the same here in germany. My whole family
thinks I'm totally nuts for wanting to stay home for the birth of Nr.2,
especially since we transferred to hospital with Sam (we got there 20-30
minutes before he was born and it was maybe a 10 minute car ride). For
us it did turn out to have been a good move because the water was green
and even though Sam was fine after birth (apgars: 9/10/10) my
bloodpressure went through the roof so they kept us over night, which
for me meant that when Sam was ready to nurse for the first time (at
about 3 a.m.) I could just call the nurse and she showed me how to latch
him on properly.

When I told my german neighbour we're planning a homebirth she said
"You're one brave woman!" and for me it's just the other way around.
Going into hospital, knowing full well that I might end up with a doc
sitting in front of me telling me "You don't have to suffer all this
pain. Why don't you want an epidural?" blah blah. I don't think I'd have
the strength to keep telling him no, especially because the first thing
I did when we got to hospital with Sam was yell at the midwife "I want
something for the paiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin!" and her dry reply was
"Ms Landau, you're too late for that. We don't have time anymore." And
I'm still glad about that. Had they offered c-section to me I would have
said yes. Labour for me was fast and one contraction on top of the
other, right from the start. So I need someone with me right away to
help me focus on breathing (I hold my breath when I'm in pain), besides,
Sam made it out in 5 hours and I doubt Nr2 will be any slower. I simply
won't have time to find someone to take Sam and someone to take me to
hospital. Much easier to stay home and have him play outside with his
friends, or if it's at night, take him to my brother who's right next door.

I'm rambling, sorry. I'll stop now ;-)

cu
nicole

On May 6, 7:17 pm, "Anne Rogers" wrote:
Lucy wrote:
My SIL hired a private midwife. It cost her £2500 to do so, because she
wanted the same midwife throughout. However, there were no guarantees that
she'd have got her midwife at the time of birth. Obviously, the midwife's
job is to be a midwife and to earn money, so she also can not just have
one
mother on her books at a time. My SIL was lucky that she was able to have
her midwife there,and I guess it would have upset her if she hadn't, but
even with a homebirth and private midwifery care, nothing is guaranteed on
that front.

cjra replied:

Slight difference then in the US - well it can vary in the US too - I
hired ONE midwife, not a team. She comes with assistant midwives
(there are a number in this area and they will act as assistants to
the primary midwife, sharing duties). So my midwife was with me
throughout.

I don't know if Lucy's SIL had a different system to what is common in the
UK, but if you do hire an Independent midwife, they do only take women on at
a rate that they have a jolly good chance of making the birth, 2-3 women a
month is not uncommon, of course you could get unlucky and go into labour at
exactly the same time as another women, but on those numbers it is unlikely.

My midwife has missed the birth of one of her clients, despite careful
planning. She generally only takes 3/month, sometimes 4 if the 4th is
a repeat client with no known issues. She takes them well spaced out
as well. However, I was the 3rd in line - spaced apart by 3 weeks in
due date, when the first two went over due, one by almost 2 weeks and
one by 1 week....fortunately she was able to attend all, but all 3
ended up going into final labor (the first had had multiple starts and
stops) within 5 days of each other.

There was one instance she told me about though where again she had
someone overdue and another going early. She had assistants already
with each woman, and had to make the decision which to attend based on
whom was more experienced - the one she missed was a 4th homebirth,
the husband was basically acting as a midwife, and the assistant (who
is also licensed/certified) was present...she arrived soon after the
birth, the labor just went really fast. In her 250+ births as primary
and nearly 800 total, that's the only one she's missed.


There may be some working as larger groups in central London, but I'm not
aware of any, because of the NHS system, independent midwifes are less
common than midwives that work in a similar way in the US, so large towns
may only have one, but most are prepared to travel. I've never yet come
across a story of someone booked with an independent midwife where that
particular IM is not present at the birth.

There are midwife practices in the US too, but locally, they're all
independent but work together. That is, you hire one, but they call
the other midwives in to assist. They cover a fairly wide area and all
offer a lot of backup for each other.