The science game

Every few years, scientists and other experts play a little game. It
is largely a generational issue that is quite similar to that played by
children. The game might be called *prove the old folks wrong* or
words to that effect. Kids are quite adept at playing the game with
some bit of supposed knowledge acquired at school.

A more pertinent example of this phenomenon recently emerged from
Britain's Cardiff University. There, a couple of researchers debunked
advice given by experts on the link between the common cold and chills.


The problem was that *previous research has dismissed any link between
chilling and viral infection as having no scientific basis*. Cold
experts believed the earlier research and, taking their advice,
millions of people developed colds that they could have avoided.

Meanwhile, old-fashioned mothers ignored the experts' advice and still
told their children to bundle up. Now, the experts have had to reverse
their original position. It turned out that, if the current crop of
research is to be believed, the stuck-in-the-mud moms were right all
along!

Then, that is the nature of *progress* and today's god of science. The
only fame and fortune is to be made in proving *experts* and sages from
the past to have been wrong.

Much the same can be said of tomorrow's headline makers. They will
stakeout new territory and *prove* today's *experts* to have been
wrong. Spanking will not be immune from this trend. Given the past,
only an intellectual ostrich would think otherwise.

Science and experts are products of their time. The times in which
they exist make them, not the other way around.

In time, others arise to usurp their intellectual throne. It has been
that way since the beginning of time.

Opinions wrote:
Every few years, scientists and other experts play a little game. It
is largely a generational issue that is quite similar to that played by
children. The game might be called *prove the old folks wrong* or
words to that effect. Kids are quite adept at playing the game with
some bit of supposed knowledge acquired at school.

A more pertinent example of this phenomenon recently emerged from
Britain's Cardiff University. There, a couple of researchers debunked
advice given by experts on the link between the common cold and chills.


The problem was that *previous research has dismissed any link between
chilling and viral infection as having no scientific basis*. Cold
experts believed the earlier research and, taking their advice,
millions of people developed colds that they could have avoided.

Meanwhile, old-fashioned mothers ignored the experts' advice and still
told their children to bundle up. Now, the experts have had to reverse
their original position. It turned out that, if the current crop of
research is to be believed, the stuck-in-the-mud moms were right all
along!

Then, that is the nature of *progress* and today's god of science. The
only fame and fortune is to be made in proving *experts* and sages from
the past to have been wrong.

Much the same can be said of tomorrow's headline makers. They will
stakeout new territory and *prove* today's *experts* to have been
wrong. Spanking will not be immune from this trend. Given the past,
only an intellectual ostrich would think otherwise.

You exhibit all the signs and characteristics of just such a bird.

Science and experts are products of their time. The times in which
they exist make them, not the other way around.

Don't you wish, fundyboy.

In time, others arise to usurp their intellectual throne. It has been
that way since the beginning of time.

Parents used to buy their children chemistry sets with samples of
mercury in them.

I presume now that health researchers for years have claim that mercury
is dangerous, and a thousand Japanese victims of Minimata Bay mercury
tainted fish and seafood proved, it must be getting close to the time
that the new scientists prove to us that mercury is after all harmless.


Generalities will get yah every time, nimwit.

Your logic is consistent, to say the least.

Hitting children harms them, and by harming effects society negatively,
individually, and cumulatively over longer periods of time.

Any common sense look at human kind and the things they do, especially
where children are routinely subjected to corporal and other
punishments, makes that plain.

History is the proof. Not science. Science is a latecomer to the issue.


Having fun, are we? R R R R R R R R

You might as well kiss spanking goodbye. It's on it's way out, has been
for decades, and it's not improving for you and your sick kind. More
countries in the recent past century and now this one are banning
spanking, as have more school districts even in states that have no
banned it legally from schools.

Let's take Tennessee, for instance. One of the small clutch of southern
states that do use the paddle in schools. Notice the recent shooting of
school administrators by a boy? Read closely. This boy had a run in
with one of them in years past.

Want to bet he wasn't paddled? Very likely by the man he killed?

What to bet his parents don't spank?

Chris Dugan, the person that created this newsgroup many years ago, did
a little research on the subject, and though outdated (we've had more
school shooting since) had some interesting things to contribute.

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/JonesboroEtc.htm

And we don't know if the children that did the killing, even in states
that did not have school paddling, were not subjected to CP by their
parents. I know the one in Springfield OR was done by a boy that was
obviously mentally and or developmentally challenged and his parents
most certainly did use CP with him.

Read, think, and ask yourself if you can continue to be an apologist
for the compulsives who spank.

It's not rocket science, Opie, and in fact not science at all. Just
common sense.

0:-

On 14 Nov 2005 wrote:


Opinions wrote:
Every few years, scientists and other experts play a little game. It
is largely a generational issue that is quite similar to that played by
children. The game might be called *prove the old folks wrong* or
words to that effect. Kids are quite adept at playing the game with
some bit of supposed knowledge acquired at school.

A more pertinent example of this phenomenon recently emerged from
Britain's Cardiff University. There, a couple of researchers debunked
advice given by experts on the link between the common cold and chills.


The problem was that *previous research has dismissed any link between
chilling and viral infection as having no scientific basis*. Cold
experts believed the earlier research and, taking their advice,
millions of people developed colds that they could have avoided.

Meanwhile, old-fashioned mothers ignored the experts' advice and still
told their children to bundle up. Now, the experts have had to reverse
their original position. It turned out that, if the current crop of
research is to be believed, the stuck-in-the-mud moms were right all
along!

Then, that is the nature of *progress* and today's god of science. The
only fame and fortune is to be made in proving *experts* and sages from
the past to have been wrong.

Much the same can be said of tomorrow's headline makers. They will
stakeout new territory and *prove* today's *experts* to have been
wrong. Spanking will not be immune from this trend. Given the past,
only an intellectual ostrich would think otherwise.

You exhibit all the signs and characteristics of just such a bird.

Science and experts are products of their time. The times in which
they exist make them, not the other way around.

Don't you wish, fundyboy.

In time, others arise to usurp their intellectual throne. It has been
that way since the beginning of time.

Parents used to buy their children chemistry sets with samples of
mercury in them.

I presume now that health researchers for years have claim that mercury
is dangerous, and a thousand Japanese victims of Minimata Bay mercury
tainted fish and seafood proved, it must be getting close to the time
that the new scientists prove to us that mercury is after all harmless.


Generalities will get yah every time, nimwit.

Your logic is consistent, to say the least.

Hitting children harms them, and by harming effects society negatively,
individually, and cumulatively over longer periods of time.

Any common sense look at human kind and the things they do, especially
where children are routinely subjected to corporal and other
punishments, makes that plain.

History is the proof. Not science. Science is a latecomer to the issue.


Having fun, are we? R R R R R R R R

You might as well kiss spanking goodbye. It's on it's way out, has been
for decades, and it's not improving for you and your sick kind. More
countries in the recent past century and now this one are banning
spanking, as have more school districts even in states that have no
banned it legally from schools.

Let's take Tennessee, for instance. One of the small clutch of southern
states that do use the paddle in schools. Notice the recent shooting of
school administrators by a boy? Read closely. This boy had a run in
with one of them in years past.

Want to bet he wasn't paddled? Very likely by the man he killed?

What to bet his parents don't spank?

Chris Dugan, the person that created this newsgroup many years ago, did
a little research on the subject, and though outdated (we've had more
school shooting since) had some interesting things to contribute.

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/JonesboroEtc.htm

And we don't know if the children that did the killing, even in states
that did not have school paddling, were not subjected to CP by their
parents. I know the one in Springfield OR was done by a boy that was
obviously mentally and or developmentally challenged and his parents
most certainly did use CP with him.

Read, think, and ask yourself if you can continue to be an apologist
for the compulsives who spank.

It's not rocket science, Opie, and in fact not science at all. Just
common sense.

0:-


Want to know why he's a lying weasel? Read on...

Chrissie lies::
What is really ironic about all of this is that I have not seen a single
example of anyone trying to argue that abolishing paddling in the
schools will solve the problem of school shootings.

mcmx::
What? What is this geek talking about now? Where's the nexus?
Where is there a connection between school shootings and school
paddlings. NOBODY on this ng has brought it up except little chrissie
dugan.

Chrissie squawks::
I will retract that statement if anyone can point me to a
counterexample. But to my knowledge no antispankers are trying to use
school shootings as proof that spanking causes violence in the young.

mcmx::
LOL....You, chrissie, have been claiming that spanking causes
violence in the young ever since I've been here. You have used prison
statistics - death row inmates ...etc etc.
YOU used the Jonesboro gun thug as an example of a boy being paddled and
then committing murder the next day. You have been exploiting that one
for about a year. I finally called you on it on a thread by that name
just shortly before the latest CA tragedy. I asked you to prove your
claim the thug was paddled. Result: You struck up the band and started
doing the Chrissie Crabwalk. Deny - deny - deny....lie - lie -
lie....


What did Chris Dunga call you again, Kane0? ;-)

Doan

Citing "the U.S. Department of Education and the U.S. Secret Service's
The Final Report and Findings of the Safe School Initiative:
Implications for the Prevention of School Attacks in the United States"
the poster *observer* challenged in May 2002 that "shooters being white
and male will have a greater correlation than their getting paddled,
spanked, or just plain hit on the buttocks."

Apparently, no one took *observer* up on the challenge that being white
and male had a greater correlation to school shootings that paddling.



Doan wrote:
On 14 Nov 2005 wrote:


Opinions wrote:
Every few years, scientists and other experts play a little game. It
is largely a generational issue that is quite similar to that played by
children. The game might be called *prove the old folks wrong* or
words to that effect. Kids are quite adept at playing the game with
some bit of supposed knowledge acquired at school.

A more pertinent example of this phenomenon recently emerged from
Britain's Cardiff University. There, a couple of researchers debunked
advice given by experts on the link between the common cold and chills.


The problem was that *previous research has dismissed any link between
chilling and viral infection as having no scientific basis*. Cold
experts believed the earlier research and, taking their advice,
millions of people developed colds that they could have avoided.

Meanwhile, old-fashioned mothers ignored the experts' advice and still
told their children to bundle up. Now, the experts have had to reverse
their original position. It turned out that, if the current crop of
research is to be believed, the stuck-in-the-mud moms were right all
along!

Then, that is the nature of *progress* and today's god of science. The
only fame and fortune is to be made in proving *experts* and sages from
the past to have been wrong.

Much the same can be said of tomorrow's headline makers. They will
stakeout new territory and *prove* today's *experts* to have been
wrong. Spanking will not be immune from this trend. Given the past,
only an intellectual ostrich would think otherwise.

You exhibit all the signs and characteristics of just such a bird.

Science and experts are products of their time. The times in which
they exist make them, not the other way around.

Don't you wish, fundyboy.

In time, others arise to usurp their intellectual throne. It has been
that way since the beginning of time.

Parents used to buy their children chemistry sets with samples of
mercury in them.

I presume now that health researchers for years have claim that mercury
is dangerous, and a thousand Japanese victims of Minimata Bay mercury
tainted fish and seafood proved, it must be getting close to the time
that the new scientists prove to us that mercury is after all harmless.


Generalities will get yah every time, nimwit.

Your logic is consistent, to say the least.

Hitting children harms them, and by harming effects society negatively,
individually, and cumulatively over longer periods of time.

Any common sense look at human kind and the things they do, especially
where children are routinely subjected to corporal and other
punishments, makes that plain.

History is the proof. Not science. Science is a latecomer to the issue.


Having fun, are we? R R R R R R R R

You might as well kiss spanking goodbye. It's on it's way out, has been
for decades, and it's not improving for you and your sick kind. More
countries in the recent past century and now this one are banning
spanking, as have more school districts even in states that have no
banned it legally from schools.

Let's take Tennessee, for instance. One of the small clutch of southern
states that do use the paddle in schools. Notice the recent shooting of
school administrators by a boy? Read closely. This boy had a run in
with one of them in years past.

Want to bet he wasn't paddled? Very likely by the man he killed?

What to bet his parents don't spank?

Chris Dugan, the person that created this newsgroup many years ago, did
a little research on the subject, and though outdated (we've had more
school shooting since) had some interesting things to contribute.

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/JonesboroEtc.htm

And we don't know if the children that did the killing, even in states
that did not have school paddling, were not subjected to CP by their
parents. I know the one in Springfield OR was done by a boy that was
obviously mentally and or developmentally challenged and his parents
most certainly did use CP with him.

Read, think, and ask yourself if you can continue to be an apologist
for the compulsives who spank.

It's not rocket science, Opie, and in fact not science at all. Just
common sense.

0:-


Want to know why he's a lying weasel? Read on...

Chrissie lies::
What is really ironic about all of this is that I have not seen a single
example of anyone trying to argue that abolishing paddling in the
schools will solve the problem of school shootings.

mcmx::
What? What is this geek talking about now? Where's the nexus?
Where is there a connection between school shootings and school
paddlings. NOBODY on this ng has brought it up except little chrissie
dugan.

Chrissie squawks::
I will retract that statement if anyone can point me to a
counterexample. But to my knowledge no antispankers are trying to use
school shootings as proof that spanking causes violence in the young.

mcmx::
LOL....You, chrissie, have been claiming that spanking causes
violence in the young ever since I've been here. You have used prison
statistics - death row inmates ...etc etc.
YOU used the Jonesboro gun thug as an example of a boy being paddled and
then committing murder the next day. You have been exploiting that one
for about a year. I finally called you on it on a thread by that name
just shortly before the latest CA tragedy. I asked you to prove your
claim the thug was paddled. Result: You struck up the band and started
doing the Chrissie Crabwalk. Deny - deny - deny....lie - lie -
lie....


What did Chris Dunga call you again, Kane0? ;-)

Doan

Opinions wrote:
Citing "the U.S. Department of Education and the U.S. Secret Service's
The Final Report and Findings of the Safe School Initiative:
Implications for the Prevention of School Attacks in the United States"
the poster *observer* challenged in May 2002 that "shooters being white
and male will have a greater correlation than their getting paddled,
spanked, or just plain hit on the buttocks."

Apparently, no one took *observer* up on the challenge that being white
and male had a greater correlation to school shootings that paddling.

Please show your research with sources. Thanks.

It's interesting that the most paddled are males, and that whites
outnumber all other races in this country.

You have a serious logic fault in your programming, Opie.

No one has ever proven that spanking "causes" violence or is "proof" of
violence in children. What's been offered is that there is a
correlation that cannot be ignored.

Many people smoke, not all die of cancer, but those that do often show,
clinically, that the smoking was directly related to their sickness and
death.

What we find is that YOU cannot produce any data that shows that
NONSPANKED children are routinely, as routinely, involved as
perpetrators of violence as the spanked.

Given that 90% plus parents in this country claim they spank, or adults
that claim they were spanked as children, the correlation begins to
become inescapable.

And states with the most paddlings tend to have the most violence among
students and the poorest academic performance.

The trick is to draw your own conclusions objectively. Something you
seem very unable to do.

Got any lists of children that violently acted out that were not
punished and or spanked?
Happy to view our data if you have it.

0:-

On 14 Nov 2005 wrote:


Opinions wrote:
Citing "the U.S. Department of Education and the U.S. Secret Service's
The Final Report and Findings of the Safe School Initiative:
Implications for the Prevention of School Attacks in the United States"
the poster *observer* challenged in May 2002 that "shooters being white
and male will have a greater correlation than their getting paddled,
spanked, or just plain hit on the buttocks."

Apparently, no one took *observer* up on the challenge that being white
and male had a greater correlation to school shootings that paddling.

Please show your research with sources. Thanks.

I've have been asking the same from you and LaVonne. LaVonne said said
she has posted them "numerous times" and you said that you found them.
WHERE ARE THEY?

It's interesting that the most paddled are males, and that whites
outnumber all other races in this country.

And spankers outnumbered non-spankers!

You have a serious logic fault in your programming, Opie.

Try looking in the mirror.

No one has ever proven that spanking "causes" violence or is "proof" of
violence in children. What's been offered is that there is a
correlation that cannot be ignored.

The same correlation that showed up for non-spanking alternatives!

Many people smoke, not all die of cancer, but those that do often show,
clinically, that the smoking was directly related to their sickness and
death.

Smoking CAUSES cancer, stupid!

What we find is that YOU cannot produce any data that shows that
NONSPANKED children are routinely, as routinely, involved as
perpetrators of violence as the spanked.

Non Sequitor!

Given that 90% plus parents in this country claim they spank, or adults
that claim they were spanked as children, the correlation begins to
become inescapable.

Correlation is not CAUSE!

And states with the most paddlings tend to have the most violence among
students and the poorest academic performance.

How about blacks and whites?

The trick is to draw your own conclusions objectively. Something you
seem very unable to do.

LOL! Objectively???

Got any lists of children that violently acted out that were not
punished and or spanked?
Happy to view our data if you have it.

Got a study where the non-spanking alternatives are better? ;-)

Doan

Opinions,

You are such a hoot! Reputable science has not dismissed the link
between common colds and not "bundling up" so as to avoid being cold.

Not "bundling up" can result in frostbite. Colds are caused by viruses.
Viruses are not caused by being chilled or by not bundling up. This
is an ignorant opinion based on nothing but an opinion.

I'm never sure why I waste my time responding to this garbage, other
than the fact that it clearly illustrates the illogical thinking and the
shaky ground pro-spankers on on when they also claim that child
development and guidance research has been "debunked!" This is the
mentality of individuals currently on this ng who advocate spanking of
little children.

Do you also advocate not restraining children in carseats or seatbelts?
Has that research beed debunked? Do you advocate hot pepper saucing
children? Has that research been debunked?

Do you advocate a belief that the world is round, or has that research
been debunked as well?

You are a hoot, opinions, but I appreciate your posts. You make such a
good case for not spanking a child.

And why do you sound so much like observer? Must be identical twins, is
that it?

Thanks for a humorous, post-Thanksgiving post.

LaVonne

Opinions wrote:

Every few years, scientists and other experts play a little game. It
is largely a generational issue that is quite similar to that played by
children. The game might be called *prove the old folks wrong* or
words to that effect. Kids are quite adept at playing the game with
some bit of supposed knowledge acquired at school.

A more pertinent example of this phenomenon recently emerged from
Britain's Cardiff University. There, a couple of researchers debunked
advice given by experts on the link between the common cold and chills.


The problem was that *previous research has dismissed any link between
chilling and viral infection as having no scientific basis*. Cold
experts believed the earlier research and, taking their advice,
millions of people developed colds that they could have avoided.

Meanwhile, old-fashioned mothers ignored the experts' advice and still
told their children to bundle up. Now, the experts have had to reverse
their original position. It turned out that, if the current crop of
research is to be believed, the stuck-in-the-mud moms were right all
along!

Then, that is the nature of *progress* and today's god of science. The
only fame and fortune is to be made in proving *experts* and sages from
the past to have been wrong.

Much the same can be said of tomorrow's headline makers. They will
stakeout new territory and *prove* today's *experts* to have been
wrong. Spanking will not be immune from this trend. Given the past,
only an intellectual ostrich would think otherwise.

Science and experts are products of their time. The times in which
they exist make them, not the other way around.

In time, others arise to usurp their intellectual throne. It has been
that way since the beginning of time.