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Flunking for profit



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 28th 07, 05:56 AM posted to alt.child-support
whatamess
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 223
Default Flunking for profit

On Jun 26, 4:36 pm, "teachrmama" wrote:
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message

...







"teachrmama" wrote in message
...


"Chris" wrote in message
...


"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
m...


"whatamess" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Jun 25, 12:29 pm, John Meyer wrote:
whatamess wrote:
On Jun 25, 9:01 am, John Meyer

wrote:
Chris wrote:
Just curious:
How many times can a mother encourage her children to flunk in
school in
order to prolong the free income from "child support"?
I don't know, but one thing's for certain, if you can get
actual
proof
that she's doing this, I'd be down there at the court filing
for

a
change of custody because of child abuse.


Even if you get proof, I can assure you the courts will say that
"it's
in the best
interest of the child" to continue to support him to ensure he

gets
at
least
a high school education...


And also, there's a fine line between encouraging them to fail,

and
being
so neglectful that they continue to fail...sadly, the courts
will
see
a HUGE
line between these two as well...of course, all in the best
interest
of the
child.


You know what, you may be right. The courts may say all of this
stuff
even if it is shown that the mother is passed out drunk when the

kids
get off school and that they really shouldn't be yanked from their
mother during the tender years. But you know what that is

preferable
to? It is preferable to the courts not having to say that because
you
didn't bring it forward and the public being able to write this
off
as
one-sided, typical selfish behavior.
So bring it forward, gather all the evidence, and if the courts

rule
that way, post it all online along with their ruling. If you
don't
know
how to post up recordings of video calls I'll help and I'm sure

there
are other people on this list who have the technical knowhow to do
so.
If you can't scan it, send it on to one of us and we'll do it.

Scan
it
all, publish it all, and post it all, because if I am going to

curse
the
darkness I'd like to leave an objective record that others can
see.
So
Chris, if you have the records, post them on up and let the world
decide.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


I do agree with you John, I was simply stating what the courts will
probably do...


I've always wondered how the courts would treat a child dropping out
of
high
school and then enrolling in a community college program to get a GED.
Does
anyone have any experience with that scenario and how it relates to
the
CS
high school/age limits laws?


My guess is that the GED would qualify as completion of high school.
Better
question is: What happens if the flunky drops out of high school and

NEVER
gets a GED?


I can't say what the language is in every child support order, but in my
husband's it is "age 19 or completion of high school, whichever comes
first."


If the order was modified after October 1997 there is a good chance that
language has been modified to include the provisions of ORS 107.108, the
adult child attending school law extending CS to age 21.


The order was issued in 2001- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


What state? Texas says the following:

Child support must be paid until the child is 18 or finishes high
school (if the child turns 18 before that), so long as the child is a
full-time high school student--unless the child is disabled.

Also, there was something about it being an "accredited school" and I
believe that was changed this year...lovely...So in Texas at least,
you pay until the kid decides to graduate...lovely...once again. So
you could drop out until you were 18, then days before your 18th
birthday decide to go back, and NCP would have to pay for you until
you decided to finish school...since now it says it can be an
accredited or non-accredited school, I wonder if the kid is over 21
and can no longer attend public school, if they can attend some other
school and continue collecting...ah, the joys of CS...

  #22  
Old June 28th 07, 07:23 AM posted to alt.child-support
teachrmama
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,905
Default Flunking for profit

We live in Ca--child in Oregon. The order is an Oregon order, via Ca.

"whatamess" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 26, 4:36 pm, "teachrmama" wrote:
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message

...







"teachrmama" wrote in message
...


"Chris" wrote in message
...


"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
m...


"whatamess" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Jun 25, 12:29 pm, John Meyer
wrote:
whatamess wrote:
On Jun 25, 9:01 am, John Meyer
wrote:
Chris wrote:
Just curious:
How many times can a mother encourage her children to flunk
in
school in
order to prolong the free income from "child support"?
I don't know, but one thing's for certain, if you can get
actual
proof
that she's doing this, I'd be down there at the court filing
for
a
change of custody because of child abuse.


Even if you get proof, I can assure you the courts will say
that
"it's
in the best
interest of the child" to continue to support him to ensure
he
gets
at
least
a high school education...


And also, there's a fine line between encouraging them to
fail,
and
being
so neglectful that they continue to fail...sadly, the courts
will
see
a HUGE
line between these two as well...of course, all in the best
interest
of the
child.


You know what, you may be right. The courts may say all of
this
stuff
even if it is shown that the mother is passed out drunk when
the
kids
get off school and that they really shouldn't be yanked from
their
mother during the tender years. But you know what that is
preferable
to? It is preferable to the courts not having to say that
because
you
didn't bring it forward and the public being able to write this
off
as
one-sided, typical selfish behavior.
So bring it forward, gather all the evidence, and if the courts
rule
that way, post it all online along with their ruling. If you
don't
know
how to post up recordings of video calls I'll help and I'm sure
there
are other people on this list who have the technical knowhow to
do
so.
If you can't scan it, send it on to one of us and we'll do it.
Scan
it
all, publish it all, and post it all, because if I am going to
curse
the
darkness I'd like to leave an objective record that others can
see.
So
Chris, if you have the records, post them on up and let the
world
decide.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


I do agree with you John, I was simply stating what the courts
will
probably do...


I've always wondered how the courts would treat a child dropping
out
of
high
school and then enrolling in a community college program to get a
GED.
Does
anyone have any experience with that scenario and how it relates to
the
CS
high school/age limits laws?


My guess is that the GED would qualify as completion of high school.
Better
question is: What happens if the flunky drops out of high school and
NEVER
gets a GED?


I can't say what the language is in every child support order, but in
my
husband's it is "age 19 or completion of high school, whichever comes
first."


If the order was modified after October 1997 there is a good chance
that
language has been modified to include the provisions of ORS 107.108,
the
adult child attending school law extending CS to age 21.


The order was issued in 2001- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


What state? Texas says the following:

Child support must be paid until the child is 18 or finishes high
school (if the child turns 18 before that), so long as the child is a
full-time high school student--unless the child is disabled.

Also, there was something about it being an "accredited school" and I
believe that was changed this year...lovely...So in Texas at least,
you pay until the kid decides to graduate...lovely...once again. So
you could drop out until you were 18, then days before your 18th
birthday decide to go back, and NCP would have to pay for you until
you decided to finish school...since now it says it can be an
accredited or non-accredited school, I wonder if the kid is over 21
and can no longer attend public school, if they can attend some other
school and continue collecting...ah, the joys of CS...



  #23  
Old June 28th 07, 06:44 PM posted to alt.child-support
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Flunking for profit


"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"whatamess" wrote in message

ups.com...
On Jun 25, 12:29 pm, John Meyer


wrote:
whatamess wrote:
On Jun 25, 9:01 am, John Meyer


wrote:
Chris wrote:
Just curious:
How many times can a mother encourage her children

to
flunk
in
school in
order to prolong the free income from "child

support"?
I don't know, but one thing's for certain, if you

can
get
actual
proof
that she's doing this, I'd be down there at the

court
filing
for
a
change of custody because of child abuse.

Even if you get proof, I can assure you the courts

will
say
that
"it's
in the best
interest of the child" to continue to support him to

ensure
he
gets
at
least
a high school education...

And also, there's a fine line between encouraging

them
to
fail,
and
being
so neglectful that they continue to fail...sadly, the
courts
will
see
a HUGE
line between these two as well...of course, all in

the
best
interest
of the
child.

You know what, you may be right. The courts may say

all
of
this
stuff
even if it is shown that the mother is passed out drunk

when
the
kids
get off school and that they really shouldn't be yanked

from
their
mother during the tender years. But you know what that

is
preferable
to? It is preferable to the courts not having to say

that
because
you
didn't bring it forward and the public being able to

write
this
off
as
one-sided, typical selfish behavior.
So bring it forward, gather all the evidence, and if

the
courts
rule
that way, post it all online along with their ruling.

If
you
don't
know
how to post up recordings of video calls I'll help and

I'm
sure
there
are other people on this list who have the technical

knowhow
to
do
so.
If you can't scan it, send it on to one of us and we'll

do
it.
Scan
it
all, publish it all, and post it all, because if I am

going
to
curse
the
darkness I'd like to leave an objective record that

others
can
see.
So
Chris, if you have the records, post them on up and let

the
world
decide.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I do agree with you John, I was simply stating what the

courts
will
probably do...

I've always wondered how the courts would treat a child

dropping
out
of
high
school and then enrolling in a community college program to

get
a
GED.
Does
anyone have any experience with that scenario and how it

relates
to
the
CS
high school/age limits laws?

My guess is that the GED would qualify as completion of high
school.
Better
question is: What happens if the flunky drops out of high

school
and
NEVER
gets a GED?

I can't say what the language is in every child support order,

but
in
my
husband's it is "age 19 or completion of high school,

whichever
comes
first."

If the order was modified after October 1997 there is a good

chance
that
language has been modified to include the provisions of ORS

107.108,
the
adult child attending school law extending CS to age 21.

The order was issued in 2001

Then it should contain the post-1997 child attending school

enforcement
language. What I meant to type was the idea an Oregon order

entered
or
modified after October 1997 should include the "current

enforcement
language" provisions of ORS 107.108. Extending CS to age 21 has

been
a
function of law in Oregon since 1973.

A quick way to check this out is to look at the "obligation limit"

or
other
language on the money judgment about support duration.

But she would have to be going to school, right? We expect her to
graduate
this next year, but she will probably opt to not attend college. So

if
she
chooses not to attend any sort of post high school education, then

support
ends at 19, as per the order, right? That would be in 10 months,
including
the month of her birthday.

That's right on all accounts. But just in case, here is the

Administrative
Rule regarding post-secondary education support. This law changes a

lot
because of the disputes between judges, DOJ, and CS Administration

over
legislative intent and what the words in the law mean. A 2006 change

allows
CS to terminate and then be re-started prior to age 21 if the adult

child
decides later to attend school.


http://dcs.state.or.us/oregon_admin_...s/055_5110.pdf

If "child support" is a state issue, ordered by the state, and enforced

by
same, how can the federal government enforce it?


Through international treaties, uniform interstate laws, and the fact they
pay 2/3 of the states' cost of setting up CS programs in compliance with
federal regulations.


Which smacks of DOUBLE standards. If federal tax dollars are used to run the
"child support" industry, then the standards should be the same in each
state; but they're not. Same dollars ought to equal same standards. Typical
government people mentality. In their minds, right seems wrong, and wrong
seems right. What else is new..........






  #24  
Old June 28th 07, 09:03 PM posted to alt.child-support
Bob Whiteside
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default Flunking for profit


"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"whatamess" wrote in message

ups.com...
On Jun 25, 12:29 pm, John Meyer


wrote:
whatamess wrote:
On Jun 25, 9:01 am, John Meyer

wrote:
Chris wrote:
Just curious:
How many times can a mother encourage her

children
to
flunk
in
school in
order to prolong the free income from "child

support"?
I don't know, but one thing's for certain, if you

can
get
actual
proof
that she's doing this, I'd be down there at the

court
filing
for
a
change of custody because of child abuse.

Even if you get proof, I can assure you the courts

will
say
that
"it's
in the best
interest of the child" to continue to support him

to
ensure
he
gets
at
least
a high school education...

And also, there's a fine line between encouraging

them
to
fail,
and
being
so neglectful that they continue to fail...sadly,

the
courts
will
see
a HUGE
line between these two as well...of course, all in

the
best
interest
of the
child.

You know what, you may be right. The courts may say

all
of
this
stuff
even if it is shown that the mother is passed out

drunk
when
the
kids
get off school and that they really shouldn't be

yanked
from
their
mother during the tender years. But you know what

that
is
preferable
to? It is preferable to the courts not having to say

that
because
you
didn't bring it forward and the public being able to

write
this
off
as
one-sided, typical selfish behavior.
So bring it forward, gather all the evidence, and if

the
courts
rule
that way, post it all online along with their ruling.

If
you
don't
know
how to post up recordings of video calls I'll help

and
I'm
sure
there
are other people on this list who have the technical
knowhow
to
do
so.
If you can't scan it, send it on to one of us and

we'll
do
it.
Scan
it
all, publish it all, and post it all, because if I am

going
to
curse
the
darkness I'd like to leave an objective record that

others
can
see.
So
Chris, if you have the records, post them on up and

let
the
world
decide.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I do agree with you John, I was simply stating what the
courts
will
probably do...

I've always wondered how the courts would treat a child
dropping
out
of
high
school and then enrolling in a community college program

to
get
a
GED.
Does
anyone have any experience with that scenario and how it
relates
to
the
CS
high school/age limits laws?

My guess is that the GED would qualify as completion of

high
school.
Better
question is: What happens if the flunky drops out of high

school
and
NEVER
gets a GED?

I can't say what the language is in every child support

order,
but
in
my
husband's it is "age 19 or completion of high school,

whichever
comes
first."

If the order was modified after October 1997 there is a good

chance
that
language has been modified to include the provisions of ORS
107.108,
the
adult child attending school law extending CS to age 21.

The order was issued in 2001

Then it should contain the post-1997 child attending school
enforcement
language. What I meant to type was the idea an Oregon order

entered
or
modified after October 1997 should include the "current

enforcement
language" provisions of ORS 107.108. Extending CS to age 21 has

been
a
function of law in Oregon since 1973.

A quick way to check this out is to look at the "obligation

limit"
or
other
language on the money judgment about support duration.

But she would have to be going to school, right? We expect her to
graduate
this next year, but she will probably opt to not attend college.

So
if
she
chooses not to attend any sort of post high school education, then


support
ends at 19, as per the order, right? That would be in 10 months,
including
the month of her birthday.

That's right on all accounts. But just in case, here is the
Administrative
Rule regarding post-secondary education support. This law changes a

lot
because of the disputes between judges, DOJ, and CS Administration

over
legislative intent and what the words in the law mean. A 2006

change
allows
CS to terminate and then be re-started prior to age 21 if the adult

child
decides later to attend school.



http://dcs.state.or.us/oregon_admin_...s/055_5110.pdf

If "child support" is a state issue, ordered by the state, and

enforced
by
same, how can the federal government enforce it?


Through international treaties, uniform interstate laws, and the fact

they
pay 2/3 of the states' cost of setting up CS programs in compliance with
federal regulations.


Which smacks of DOUBLE standards. If federal tax dollars are used to run

the
"child support" industry, then the standards should be the same in each
state; but they're not. Same dollars ought to equal same standards.

Typical
government people mentality. In their minds, right seems wrong, and wrong
seems right. What else is new..........


The federal standards for CS program operation are detailed in 45 CFR 303.
They are the same for every state.


  #25  
Old June 29th 07, 05:45 PM posted to alt.child-support
whatamess
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 223
Default Flunking for profit

On 27 jun, 03:42, "Chris" wrote:
"teachrmama" wrote in message

...







"Chris" wrote in message
...


"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
m...


"whatamess" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Jun 25, 12:29 pm, John Meyer wrote:
whatamess wrote:
On Jun 25, 9:01 am, John Meyer

wrote:
Chris wrote:
Just curious:
How many times can a mother encourage her children to flunk in
school in
order to prolong the free income from "child support"?
I don't know, but one thing's for certain, if you can get actual
proof
that she's doing this, I'd be down there at the court filing for

a
change of custody because of child abuse.


Even if you get proof, I can assure you the courts will say that
"it's
in the best
interest of the child" to continue to support him to ensure he

gets
at
least
a high school education...


And also, there's a fine line between encouraging them to fail,

and
being
so neglectful that they continue to fail...sadly, the courts will
see
a HUGE
line between these two as well...of course, all in the best
interest
of the
child.


You know what, you may be right. The courts may say all of this
stuff
even if it is shown that the mother is passed out drunk when the

kids
get off school and that they really shouldn't be yanked from their
mother during the tender years. But you know what that is

preferable
to? It is preferable to the courts not having to say that because
you
didn't bring it forward and the public being able to write this off
as
one-sided, typical selfish behavior.
So bring it forward, gather all the evidence, and if the courts

rule
that way, post it all online along with their ruling. If you don't
know
how to post up recordings of video calls I'll help and I'm sure

there
are other people on this list who have the technical knowhow to do
so.
If you can't scan it, send it on to one of us and we'll do it.

Scan
it
all, publish it all, and post it all, because if I am going to

curse
the
darkness I'd like to leave an objective record that others can see.
So
Chris, if you have the records, post them on up and let the world
decide.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


I do agree with you John, I was simply stating what the courts will
probably do...


I've always wondered how the courts would treat a child dropping out of
high
school and then enrolling in a community college program to get a GED.
Does
anyone have any experience with that scenario and how it relates to the
CS
high school/age limits laws?


My guess is that the GED would qualify as completion of high school.
Better
question is: What happens if the flunky drops out of high school and

NEVER
gets a GED?


I can't say what the language is in every child support order, but in my
husband's it is "age 19 or completion of high school, whichever comes
first."


I've seen it written "age 18 or completion of high school, whichever comes
LAST." Gee, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize which of the two
causes the poor schmuck to get screwed far worse.
Not to mention, since there is no way to know whether or not they have
graduated from high school, the payments could continue indefinitely! At
least in your case, you know for certain the date when you can stop paying.



- Ocultar texto de la cita -

- Mostrar texto de la cita -- Ocultar texto de la cita -

- Mostrar texto de la cita -


Ah yes Chris...the lovely state of Texas...which as we stand, we know
that she started 5th grade (for the second time) at age 12...
We still have no idea if she passed this year or failed again...She
took summer school last year, and failed that too...
So, let's see...if she passed, and provided she doesn't fail again and
stays in school, that would mean we stop paying 3 months short
of her 20th birthday...if she failed...we stop 3 months short of her
21st...Now, if she decides to quit at 15...and then sit
on her behind for 2 years...so she returns at 18 to school...I guess
we pay until she finishes? Because it no longer needs
to be an accredited school (ie. public school is through age 21 I
believe), so she could go anywhere, and we could be
paying until she decides to graduate...And yes, we are still hoping we
will KNOW when she graduates...lovely.

I would think that when she fails and CS stops, if she hasn't finished
High School, her mother will attempt to send
her to live with us to finish, without paying CS...but no, we won't
tolerate it.

  #26  
Old June 29th 07, 06:55 PM posted to alt.child-support
teachrmama
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,905
Default Flunking for profit


"whatamess" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 27 jun, 03:42, "Chris" wrote:
"teachrmama" wrote in message

...







"Chris" wrote in message
...


"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
m...


"whatamess" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Jun 25, 12:29 pm, John Meyer
wrote:
whatamess wrote:
On Jun 25, 9:01 am, John Meyer

wrote:
Chris wrote:
Just curious:
How many times can a mother encourage her children to flunk
in
school in
order to prolong the free income from "child support"?
I don't know, but one thing's for certain, if you can get
actual
proof
that she's doing this, I'd be down there at the court filing
for

a
change of custody because of child abuse.


Even if you get proof, I can assure you the courts will say
that
"it's
in the best
interest of the child" to continue to support him to ensure he

gets
at
least
a high school education...


And also, there's a fine line between encouraging them to
fail,

and
being
so neglectful that they continue to fail...sadly, the courts
will
see
a HUGE
line between these two as well...of course, all in the best
interest
of the
child.


You know what, you may be right. The courts may say all of this
stuff
even if it is shown that the mother is passed out drunk when the

kids
get off school and that they really shouldn't be yanked from
their
mother during the tender years. But you know what that is

preferable
to? It is preferable to the courts not having to say that
because
you
didn't bring it forward and the public being able to write this
off
as
one-sided, typical selfish behavior.
So bring it forward, gather all the evidence, and if the courts

rule
that way, post it all online along with their ruling. If you
don't
know
how to post up recordings of video calls I'll help and I'm sure

there
are other people on this list who have the technical knowhow to
do
so.
If you can't scan it, send it on to one of us and we'll do it.

Scan
it
all, publish it all, and post it all, because if I am going to

curse
the
darkness I'd like to leave an objective record that others can
see.
So
Chris, if you have the records, post them on up and let the
world
decide.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


I do agree with you John, I was simply stating what the courts
will
probably do...


I've always wondered how the courts would treat a child dropping out
of
high
school and then enrolling in a community college program to get a
GED.
Does
anyone have any experience with that scenario and how it relates to
the
CS
high school/age limits laws?


My guess is that the GED would qualify as completion of high school.
Better
question is: What happens if the flunky drops out of high school and

NEVER
gets a GED?


I can't say what the language is in every child support order, but in
my
husband's it is "age 19 or completion of high school, whichever comes
first."


I've seen it written "age 18 or completion of high school, whichever
comes
LAST." Gee, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize which of the
two
causes the poor schmuck to get screwed far worse.
Not to mention, since there is no way to know whether or not they have
graduated from high school, the payments could continue indefinitely! At
least in your case, you know for certain the date when you can stop
paying.



- Ocultar texto de la cita -

- Mostrar texto de la cita -- Ocultar texto de la cita -

- Mostrar texto de la cita -


Ah yes Chris...the lovely state of Texas...which as we stand, we know
that she started 5th grade (for the second time) at age 12...
We still have no idea if she passed this year or failed again...She
took summer school last year, and failed that too...
So, let's see...if she passed, and provided she doesn't fail again and
stays in school, that would mean we stop paying 3 months short
of her 20th birthday...if she failed...we stop 3 months short of her
21st...Now, if she decides to quit at 15...and then sit
on her behind for 2 years...so she returns at 18 to school...I guess
we pay until she finishes? Because it no longer needs
to be an accredited school (ie. public school is through age 21 I
believe), so she could go anywhere, and we could be
paying until she decides to graduate...And yes, we are still hoping we
will KNOW when she graduates...lovely.

I would think that when she fails and CS stops, if she hasn't finished
High School, her mother will attempt to send
her to live with us to finish, without paying CS...but no, we won't
tolerate it.


Is this just speculation on your part (of which I have done my share,
believe me), or have you spoken to a lawyer about all of this. I cna't
imagine that any state would consider keeping a person on "child support"
until they were 50!



  #27  
Old June 30th 07, 05:03 PM posted to alt.child-support
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Flunking for profit


"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"whatamess" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 27 jun, 03:42, "Chris" wrote:
"teachrmama" wrote in message

...







"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
m...

"whatamess" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Jun 25, 12:29 pm, John Meyer
wrote:
whatamess wrote:
On Jun 25, 9:01 am, John Meyer
wrote:
Chris wrote:
Just curious:
How many times can a mother encourage her children to

flunk
in
school in
order to prolong the free income from "child support"?
I don't know, but one thing's for certain, if you can get
actual
proof
that she's doing this, I'd be down there at the court

filing
for
a
change of custody because of child abuse.

Even if you get proof, I can assure you the courts will say
that
"it's
in the best
interest of the child" to continue to support him to ensure

he
gets
at
least
a high school education...

And also, there's a fine line between encouraging them to
fail,
and
being
so neglectful that they continue to fail...sadly, the courts
will
see
a HUGE
line between these two as well...of course, all in the best
interest
of the
child.

You know what, you may be right. The courts may say all of

this
stuff
even if it is shown that the mother is passed out drunk when

the
kids
get off school and that they really shouldn't be yanked from
their
mother during the tender years. But you know what that is
preferable
to? It is preferable to the courts not having to say that
because
you
didn't bring it forward and the public being able to write

this
off
as
one-sided, typical selfish behavior.
So bring it forward, gather all the evidence, and if the

courts
rule
that way, post it all online along with their ruling. If you
don't
know
how to post up recordings of video calls I'll help and I'm

sure
there
are other people on this list who have the technical knowhow

to
do
so.
If you can't scan it, send it on to one of us and we'll do it.
Scan
it
all, publish it all, and post it all, because if I am going to
curse
the
darkness I'd like to leave an objective record that others can
see.
So
Chris, if you have the records, post them on up and let the
world
decide.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I do agree with you John, I was simply stating what the courts
will
probably do...

I've always wondered how the courts would treat a child dropping

out
of
high
school and then enrolling in a community college program to get a
GED.
Does
anyone have any experience with that scenario and how it relates

to
the
CS
high school/age limits laws?

My guess is that the GED would qualify as completion of high

school.
Better
question is: What happens if the flunky drops out of high school

and
NEVER
gets a GED?

I can't say what the language is in every child support order, but in
my
husband's it is "age 19 or completion of high school, whichever comes
first."

I've seen it written "age 18 or completion of high school, whichever
comes
LAST." Gee, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize which of the
two
causes the poor schmuck to get screwed far worse.
Not to mention, since there is no way to know whether or not they have
graduated from high school, the payments could continue indefinitely!

At
least in your case, you know for certain the date when you can stop
paying.



- Ocultar texto de la cita -

- Mostrar texto de la cita -- Ocultar texto de la cita -

- Mostrar texto de la cita -


Ah yes Chris...the lovely state of Texas...which as we stand, we know
that she started 5th grade (for the second time) at age 12...
We still have no idea if she passed this year or failed again...She
took summer school last year, and failed that too...
So, let's see...if she passed, and provided she doesn't fail again and
stays in school, that would mean we stop paying 3 months short
of her 20th birthday...if she failed...we stop 3 months short of her
21st...Now, if she decides to quit at 15...and then sit
on her behind for 2 years...so she returns at 18 to school...I guess
we pay until she finishes? Because it no longer needs
to be an accredited school (ie. public school is through age 21 I
believe), so she could go anywhere, and we could be
paying until she decides to graduate...And yes, we are still hoping we
will KNOW when she graduates...lovely.

I would think that when she fails and CS stops, if she hasn't finished
High School, her mother will attempt to send
her to live with us to finish, without paying CS...but no, we won't
tolerate it.


Is this just speculation on your part (of which I have done my share,
believe me), or have you spoken to a lawyer about all of this. I cna't
imagine that any state would consider keeping a person on "child support"
until they were 50!


Actually, people have been forced to pay for a 50 year old "child".






  #28  
Old June 30th 07, 06:46 PM posted to alt.child-support
teachrmama
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,905
Default Flunking for profit


"Chris" wrote in message ...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"whatamess" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 27 jun, 03:42, "Chris" wrote:
"teachrmama" wrote in message

...







"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
m...

"whatamess" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Jun 25, 12:29 pm, John Meyer
wrote:
whatamess wrote:
On Jun 25, 9:01 am, John Meyer
wrote:
Chris wrote:
Just curious:
How many times can a mother encourage her children to

flunk
in
school in
order to prolong the free income from "child support"?
I don't know, but one thing's for certain, if you can get
actual
proof
that she's doing this, I'd be down there at the court

filing
for
a
change of custody because of child abuse.

Even if you get proof, I can assure you the courts will say
that
"it's
in the best
interest of the child" to continue to support him to ensure

he
gets
at
least
a high school education...

And also, there's a fine line between encouraging them to
fail,
and
being
so neglectful that they continue to fail...sadly, the
courts
will
see
a HUGE
line between these two as well...of course, all in the best
interest
of the
child.

You know what, you may be right. The courts may say all of

this
stuff
even if it is shown that the mother is passed out drunk when

the
kids
get off school and that they really shouldn't be yanked from
their
mother during the tender years. But you know what that is
preferable
to? It is preferable to the courts not having to say that
because
you
didn't bring it forward and the public being able to write

this
off
as
one-sided, typical selfish behavior.
So bring it forward, gather all the evidence, and if the

courts
rule
that way, post it all online along with their ruling. If you
don't
know
how to post up recordings of video calls I'll help and I'm

sure
there
are other people on this list who have the technical knowhow

to
do
so.
If you can't scan it, send it on to one of us and we'll do
it.
Scan
it
all, publish it all, and post it all, because if I am going
to
curse
the
darkness I'd like to leave an objective record that others
can
see.
So
Chris, if you have the records, post them on up and let the
world
decide.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I do agree with you John, I was simply stating what the courts
will
probably do...

I've always wondered how the courts would treat a child dropping

out
of
high
school and then enrolling in a community college program to get a
GED.
Does
anyone have any experience with that scenario and how it relates

to
the
CS
high school/age limits laws?

My guess is that the GED would qualify as completion of high

school.
Better
question is: What happens if the flunky drops out of high school

and
NEVER
gets a GED?

I can't say what the language is in every child support order, but
in
my
husband's it is "age 19 or completion of high school, whichever
comes
first."

I've seen it written "age 18 or completion of high school, whichever
comes
LAST." Gee, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize which of the
two
causes the poor schmuck to get screwed far worse.
Not to mention, since there is no way to know whether or not they have
graduated from high school, the payments could continue indefinitely!

At
least in your case, you know for certain the date when you can stop
paying.



- Ocultar texto de la cita -

- Mostrar texto de la cita -- Ocultar texto de la cita -

- Mostrar texto de la cita -

Ah yes Chris...the lovely state of Texas...which as we stand, we know
that she started 5th grade (for the second time) at age 12...
We still have no idea if she passed this year or failed again...She
took summer school last year, and failed that too...
So, let's see...if she passed, and provided she doesn't fail again and
stays in school, that would mean we stop paying 3 months short
of her 20th birthday...if she failed...we stop 3 months short of her
21st...Now, if she decides to quit at 15...and then sit
on her behind for 2 years...so she returns at 18 to school...I guess
we pay until she finishes? Because it no longer needs
to be an accredited school (ie. public school is through age 21 I
believe), so she could go anywhere, and we could be
paying until she decides to graduate...And yes, we are still hoping we
will KNOW when she graduates...lovely.

I would think that when she fails and CS stops, if she hasn't finished
High School, her mother will attempt to send
her to live with us to finish, without paying CS...but no, we won't
tolerate it.


Is this just speculation on your part (of which I have done my share,
believe me), or have you spoken to a lawyer about all of this. I cna't
imagine that any state would consider keeping a person on "child support"
until they were 50!


Actually, people have been forced to pay for a 50 year old "child".


Are you referring to a disabled child?


  #29  
Old July 1st 07, 03:18 AM posted to alt.child-support
whatamess
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 223
Default Flunking for profit

On 29 jun, 14:55, "teachrmama" wrote:
"whatamess" wrote in message

ups.com...





On 27 jun, 03:42, "Chris" wrote:
"teachrmama" wrote in message


...


"Chris" wrote in message
...


"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
m...


"whatamess" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Jun 25, 12:29 pm, John Meyer
wrote:
whatamess wrote:
On Jun 25, 9:01 am, John Meyer
wrote:
Chris wrote:
Just curious:
How many times can a mother encourage her children to flunk
in
school in
order to prolong the free income from "child support"?
I don't know, but one thing's for certain, if you can get
actual
proof
that she's doing this, I'd be down there at the court filing
for
a
change of custody because of child abuse.


Even if you get proof, I can assure you the courts will say
that
"it's
in the best
interest of the child" to continue to support him to ensure he
gets
at
least
a high school education...


And also, there's a fine line between encouraging them to
fail,
and
being
so neglectful that they continue to fail...sadly, the courts
will
see
a HUGE
line between these two as well...of course, all in the best
interest
of the
child.


You know what, you may be right. The courts may say all of this
stuff
even if it is shown that the mother is passed out drunk when the
kids
get off school and that they really shouldn't be yanked from
their
mother during the tender years. But you know what that is
preferable
to? It is preferable to the courts not having to say that
because
you
didn't bring it forward and the public being able to write this
off
as
one-sided, typical selfish behavior.
So bring it forward, gather all the evidence, and if the courts
rule
that way, post it all online along with their ruling. If you
don't
know
how to post up recordings of video calls I'll help and I'm sure
there
are other people on this list who have the technical knowhow to
do
so.
If you can't scan it, send it on to one of us and we'll do it.
Scan
it
all, publish it all, and post it all, because if I am going to
curse
the
darkness I'd like to leave an objective record that others can
see.
So
Chris, if you have the records, post them on up and let the
world
decide.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


I do agree with you John, I was simply stating what the courts
will
probably do...


I've always wondered how the courts would treat a child dropping out
of
high
school and then enrolling in a community college program to get a
GED.
Does
anyone have any experience with that scenario and how it relates to
the
CS
high school/age limits laws?


My guess is that the GED would qualify as completion of high school.
Better
question is: What happens if the flunky drops out of high school and
NEVER
gets a GED?


I can't say what the language is in every child support order, but in
my
husband's it is "age 19 or completion of high school, whichever comes
first."


I've seen it written "age 18 or completion of high school, whichever
comes
LAST." Gee, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize which of the
two
causes the poor schmuck to get screwed far worse.
Not to mention, since there is no way to know whether or not they have
graduated from high school, the payments could continue indefinitely! At
least in your case, you know for certain the date when you can stop
paying.


- Ocultar texto de la cita -


- Mostrar texto de la cita -- Ocultar texto de la cita -


- Mostrar texto de la cita -


Ah yes Chris...the lovely state of Texas...which as we stand, we know
that she started 5th grade (for the second time) at age 12...
We still have no idea if she passed this year or failed again...She
took summer school last year, and failed that too...
So, let's see...if she passed, and provided she doesn't fail again and
stays in school, that would mean we stop paying 3 months short
of her 20th birthday...if she failed...we stop 3 months short of her
21st...Now, if she decides to quit at 15...and then sit
on her behind for 2 years...so she returns at 18 to school...I guess
we pay until she finishes? Because it no longer needs
to be an accredited school (ie. public school is through age 21 I
believe), so she could go anywhere, and we could be
paying until she decides to graduate...And yes, we are still hoping we
will KNOW when she graduates...lovely.


I would think that when she fails and CS stops, if she hasn't finished
High School, her mother will attempt to send
her to live with us to finish, without paying CS...but no, we won't
tolerate it.


Is this just speculation on your part (of which I have done my share,
believe me), or have you spoken to a lawyer about all of this. I cna't
imagine that any state would consider keeping a person on "child support"
until they were 50!



- Ocultar texto de la cita -

- Mostrar texto de la cita -- Ocultar texto de la cita -

- Mostrar texto de la cita -


Well, the law does not say until X years, it says 18 or until they
finish high school, whichever is later...period.
It might be speculation on my part, but unless the law says no later
than age 20 or other, I would think
they could do as they please...

  #30  
Old July 1st 07, 04:00 AM posted to alt.child-support
teachrmama
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,905
Default Flunking for profit


"whatamess" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 29 jun, 14:55, "teachrmama" wrote:
"whatamess" wrote in message

ups.com...





On 27 jun, 03:42, "Chris" wrote:
"teachrmama" wrote in message


...


"Chris" wrote in message
...


"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
m...


"whatamess" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Jun 25, 12:29 pm, John Meyer
wrote:
whatamess wrote:
On Jun 25, 9:01 am, John Meyer
wrote:
Chris wrote:
Just curious:
How many times can a mother encourage her children to
flunk
in
school in
order to prolong the free income from "child support"?
I don't know, but one thing's for certain, if you can get
actual
proof
that she's doing this, I'd be down there at the court
filing
for
a
change of custody because of child abuse.


Even if you get proof, I can assure you the courts will say
that
"it's
in the best
interest of the child" to continue to support him to ensure
he
gets
at
least
a high school education...


And also, there's a fine line between encouraging them to
fail,
and
being
so neglectful that they continue to fail...sadly, the
courts
will
see
a HUGE
line between these two as well...of course, all in the best
interest
of the
child.


You know what, you may be right. The courts may say all of
this
stuff
even if it is shown that the mother is passed out drunk when
the
kids
get off school and that they really shouldn't be yanked from
their
mother during the tender years. But you know what that is
preferable
to? It is preferable to the courts not having to say that
because
you
didn't bring it forward and the public being able to write
this
off
as
one-sided, typical selfish behavior.
So bring it forward, gather all the evidence, and if the
courts
rule
that way, post it all online along with their ruling. If you
don't
know
how to post up recordings of video calls I'll help and I'm
sure
there
are other people on this list who have the technical knowhow
to
do
so.
If you can't scan it, send it on to one of us and we'll do
it.
Scan
it
all, publish it all, and post it all, because if I am going
to
curse
the
darkness I'd like to leave an objective record that others
can
see.
So
Chris, if you have the records, post them on up and let the
world
decide.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


I do agree with you John, I was simply stating what the courts
will
probably do...


I've always wondered how the courts would treat a child dropping
out
of
high
school and then enrolling in a community college program to get a
GED.
Does
anyone have any experience with that scenario and how it relates
to
the
CS
high school/age limits laws?


My guess is that the GED would qualify as completion of high
school.
Better
question is: What happens if the flunky drops out of high school
and
NEVER
gets a GED?


I can't say what the language is in every child support order, but
in
my
husband's it is "age 19 or completion of high school, whichever
comes
first."


I've seen it written "age 18 or completion of high school, whichever
comes
LAST." Gee, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize which of the
two
causes the poor schmuck to get screwed far worse.
Not to mention, since there is no way to know whether or not they have
graduated from high school, the payments could continue indefinitely!
At
least in your case, you know for certain the date when you can stop
paying.


- Ocultar texto de la cita -


- Mostrar texto de la cita -- Ocultar texto de la cita -


- Mostrar texto de la cita -


Ah yes Chris...the lovely state of Texas...which as we stand, we know
that she started 5th grade (for the second time) at age 12...
We still have no idea if she passed this year or failed again...She
took summer school last year, and failed that too...
So, let's see...if she passed, and provided she doesn't fail again and
stays in school, that would mean we stop paying 3 months short
of her 20th birthday...if she failed...we stop 3 months short of her
21st...Now, if she decides to quit at 15...and then sit
on her behind for 2 years...so she returns at 18 to school...I guess
we pay until she finishes? Because it no longer needs
to be an accredited school (ie. public school is through age 21 I
believe), so she could go anywhere, and we could be
paying until she decides to graduate...And yes, we are still hoping we
will KNOW when she graduates...lovely.


I would think that when she fails and CS stops, if she hasn't finished
High School, her mother will attempt to send
her to live with us to finish, without paying CS...but no, we won't
tolerate it.


Is this just speculation on your part (of which I have done my share,
believe me), or have you spoken to a lawyer about all of this. I cna't
imagine that any state would consider keeping a person on "child support"
until they were 50!



- Ocultar texto de la cita -

- Mostrar texto de la cita -- Ocultar texto de la cita -

- Mostrar texto de la cita -


Well, the law does not say until X years, it says 18 or until they
finish high school, whichever is later...period.
It might be speculation on my part, but unless the law says no later
than age 20 or other, I would think
they could do as they please...


My situation is very similar to yours, so I understand what you are going
through. Being at the mercy of a bureaucracy that wants nothing more than
to make itself look good so it can keep the gravy train rolling is unnerving
to say the least. I will be retiring far later than I would have thought I
would, do to this issue. And my children will have to pay for far more of
their own college than is fair, because they are "irrelevant." I would
still suggest consulting with a lawyer to find out the facts before assuming
that disaster is neverending. At leat then you will know for sure one way
or another. Which has got to be better than the uncertainty you're living
with now. Good luck!


 




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