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Seeking straight A's, parents push for pills



 
 
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  #331  
Old September 29th 06, 10:33 PM posted to misc.education,misc.kids,alt.parenting.solutions,misc.kids.health,alt.support.attn-deficit
toto
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Posts: 784
Default Seeking straight A's, parents push for pills

On 28 Sep 2006 21:52:37 -0700, "laraine" wrote:

Perhaps the issue with such courses now is
that the homework can take quite a bit of time,
and homework seems to be a no-no these days.


Huh? Most people are claiming their kids have a lot of homework, so I
can't see how you can say it's a no-no.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
  #332  
Old September 30th 06, 03:33 AM posted to misc.education,misc.kids,alt.parenting.solutions,misc.kids.health,alt.support.attn-deficit
laraine
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Posts: 20
Default Seeking straight A's, parents push for pills

toypup wrote:
"laraine" wrote in message
ps.com...
Perhaps the issue with such courses now is
that the homework can take quite a bit of time,
and homework seems to be a no-no these days.


I don't know where you live, but it's so the opposite where I am. The kids
are overwhelmed with homework.


toto wrote:
Huh? Most people are claiming their kids have a lot of homework, so I
can't see how you can say it's a no-no.


I wasn't referring to the current situation in
schools, but rather to what I perceive to be
the attitude towards homework, particularly
busy work, by some on these newsgroups.
I realize the discussions about homework go
back a few years, so I hope I am not
overgeneralizing.

The reason I particularly noticed those
comments was because I have always been a
big fan of homework. I have a fairly poor memory
as well as a somewhat short attention span
in class, even when I am trying very hard,
so doing homework helped me a lot.
It gave me time on my own to sift out
important concepts and details, and I
found repetition to be an advantage for
me. But, of course, others might not be
like me at all.

In any case, if students are assigned
a lot of homework these days (and I
too have heard that), to expect them
to spend a lot more time on proof
geometry, advanced physics, etc.,
if they are not doing so already,
is asking a lot, though some of
that is helpful for later success
if they desire a technical career.

C.

  #333  
Old October 1st 06, 03:27 AM posted to misc.education,misc.kids,alt.parenting.solutions,misc.kids.health,alt.support.attn-deficit
laraine
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Posts: 20
Default Seeking straight A's, parents push for pills

Herman Rubin wrote:

The problem with most students in algebra, and
the courses and what they learn reflects this,
is that the emphasis is on solving formulated
problems, using only routine methods. I have
seen an outline which has quite a few rules for
handling equations, all of which are special
cases of the rule of equality, and the students
memorize them one at a time. One of my colleagues
told me about a bright minority student who was
in danger of flunking out; nobody had told him
that he could formulate word problems. I said
a bright student; for such, it is that it has
not been taught, not that it was not learned.

An exceptionally gifted child can use the

c existing books. My son did, with not that
much help. In fact, for logic he used two
books, with somewhat different notations,
around age 6.

It would not be difficult to write a logic
text which could be used by average elementary
school children with a good teacher; with some
modifications, my late wife's book can almost
do this, although it was written for juniors
in college. If someone is interested in making
the modifications, I would be glad to cooperate,
including introductory material on variables
which could be used with beginning reading.
I am NOT a writer, and I know how much work
is involved in writing a book. In this case,
there are good templates to work from, so it
will be easier.

Well, one piece of advice I can give you
if you decide to do this (and if you want my
advice), is to do it in small pieces, and
get feedback from your audience (some
exceptionally gifted children) as you are
working on it. I'm sure many in these newsgroups
would be interested in discussing it with you too.


The pieces cannot be too small, and that has been
considered.

It sounds challenging, however, to go from a
junior level college text to something for
early elementary school. You might want
someone extra (perhaps a mathematician who
has taught elementary school?) to help you.


I do not think it harder than the ones which
have been taught at the elementary school
level, except that the applications, which are
not in those other books, may involve unknown
material. A small amount of the vocabulary
may need to be changed, but not much.

I think I have found some references to your
wife's books (sorry to be nosy), so when I
get a chance, I'll take a look at them just
to see what it is that you are talking about.


You are likely to have GREAT difficulty with
any of the others. They are written for people
with considerable mathematical knowledge, while
this one, despite it being junior level, has no
real prerequisites.


Yes, I definitely want to look at the
appropriate text.

Are you thinking of
'Set Theory for the Mathematician?'

There is at least one mo
'Mathematical Logic Applications and Theory'


The books that my son studied to learn logic are
available, but I doubt that many primary school
children can handle them. The one he learned
algebra from might be a possibility for someone
who has already learned to read.

The book which I recommend for "adults" to learn
the ordinal approach to the integers was definitely
written for those who were adept at using algebra
and had some idea of a proof, and who were willing
to see that the details could be filled in. It is
not appropriate for beginning teaching, and in fact
it is even inadequate in its treatment of the integers,
as it does not go into positional notation. But
making sense of positional notation requires ordinals.


Those additional texts you mention would probably
also be useful to look at, if your idea is implemented.


Those who produced the new math materials did not start
with a finished product. We can to some extent go back
to the old structured materials we had before the idea
that children should always be with their age groups
was imposed, and the idea of "relevance" instead of
learning for the distant future, and doing things
in a manner removing repetition, were the rule.

So, you mean to start more from scratch than
what those who designed 'new math' started
with?

Not really. We do have the theoretical materials in
a pedagogical form. The only problems are to combine
it all, extend where necessary, produce exercises, and
figure out how fast to do it. Find one person willing
to work on this with me, as I am not a good writer, and
a "self-paced" program without enough exercises can be
produced in a few months.


It sounds like a possibility, and I have some ideas
of whom I could contact for initial advice and information,
but I also want to look at the book you mentioned before
saying more. I can probably give you a better response
in the next five weeks or so.

Would you require the writer to work with you at
Purdue, for at least some of the time, and would
the initial six months of work be a full or part-time
task for the writer?

C.

  #334  
Old October 2nd 06, 02:22 AM posted to misc.education,misc.kids,alt.parenting.solutions,misc.kids.health,alt.support.attn-deficit
Herman Rubin
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Posts: 383
Default Seeking straight A's, parents push for pills

In article . com,
laraine wrote:
Herman Rubin wrote:


.................

I think I have found some references to your
wife's books (sorry to be nosy), so when I
get a chance, I'll take a look at them just
to see what it is that you are talking about.


You are likely to have GREAT difficulty with
any of the others. They are written for people
with considerable mathematical knowledge, while
this one, despite it being junior level, has no
real prerequisites.



Yes, I definitely want to look at the
appropriate text.


Are you thinking of
'Set Theory for the Mathematician?'


No; this is written for graduate students in
mathematics, and is fairly difficult.

There is at least one mo
'Mathematical Logic Applications and Theory'


This is the one. It would take little revision
to make this accessible to elementary school
children, and possibly primary school.

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
 




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