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Gotta keep it from The Children



 
 
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  #71  
Old June 29th 03, 06:17 PM
Tom Enright
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Default OT (wildly): photo tix and dropping the hammer was Gotta keep it from The Children

Dan Evans wrote:

"Shelly" wrote in message
.. .
ok here is a question, Between American football and Rugby, playing AF
rules and Rugby no padding, who do you think would win this match? or to
make it simpler each team traveled to the opposing country and played
"their"way who would win?


American football is much more a sport of specialisation. You have players
on the field that weigh over 350 pounds and players who weigh in at 180 and
could easily start on the majority of the world's Olympic track and field
teams. This alone would make comparisons nearly impossible. Your average
American football player is going to be bigger, faster and stronger than
your average rugby player, but the rugby player is going to have much more
satmina.

When I was in Düsseldorf, our rugby team played against one of the Americans
Football teams at one of their barracks (Rhienberg IIRC). One match each
rugby and American football. We won both.


I don't know if you are American or not, I am thinking not, but unless all
the players on your rugby team had played American football I'm calling BS
on this one. American football is far too complicated to learn in an
afternoon.

When you guys huddled up before the snap and the quaterback called the
play, a very common, simple play like: "pro right 32 counter trap" did each
of the 11 players on your team know their assignment for that particular
play?


Dan

  #72  
Old June 29th 03, 07:30 PM
abacus
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Default Gotta keep it from The Children

"0tterbot" wrote in message . ..
"CBI" wrote in message
...

"toto" wrote in message
...

The method must be justifiable in terms of its necessity not in terms
of the result alone


I think you have come full circle with this. By this logic if the end is
necessary and there is no other way to achieve it (or all the other ways

are
more onerous) then the ends do justify the means. Not that I disagree but

I
think the only difference between what the two of you are saying is that
silva is saying "sometimes" and you are being a tiny bit more explicit in
when those times are.


i'd say silvasurfa's saying if she doesn't like the act which is the reason
for the law, she doesn't care about ends/means justification because of her
dislike of the act itself (which would be pro-ends, with a disregard for
means). whereas toto is saying she may or may not dislike the act, but
rather that the means (rather than the ends) should be in proportion to the
act itself.

that's just my interpretation.
kylie


Took me a while to sort this out, but I think I understand what
everyone is saying. Let me rephrase and see if I've got this right?

Silvasurfa's saying that the act of the smoking is so dispictable that
the justification (means) for banning it in a public park (end) is
fine with her. She considers the means appropriate for the end. Toto
is saying that even though she might dislike smoking, the
justification used is not sufficient to ban it in a public park and
fears that the justification of setting a bad example for children, if
considered a legimate reason for banning an otherwise acceptable act,
could be used quite extensively for many different things and that
could be detrimental to the freedom of individuals in our society. If
I've got this right, I agree with Toto.

Any corrections?
  #73  
Old June 29th 03, 10:46 PM
Dan Evans
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Default OT (wildly): photo tix and dropping the hammer was Gotta keep it from The Children


"Tom Enright" wrote in message
om...

the players on your rugby team had played American football I'm calling BS
on this one. American football is far too complicated to learn in an
afternoon.


OK, this is a global forum, so it's not as if anyone else who was there
can't post to deny it.

If anyone here, or anyone here knows anyone, that was either at the US
barracks at Rhineberg ( think it was Rhineberg, not 100% though. It was the
big PX for the US troops that were stationed out of the US Corps areas, 1
and 2 US Corps IIRC) or Canaervon Barracks in Düsseldorf in 1989 that
remembers the UK/US Football/Rugby matches, or indeed the *non* event,
please post here.

Can't say fairer than that, now can you?

Dan


  #74  
Old June 30th 03, 03:33 AM
CBI
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Default OT (wildly): photo tix and dropping the hammer was Gotta keep it from The Children



"Dan Evans" wrote in message
...

"Tom Enright" wrote in message
om...
Dan Evans wrote:


Your average
American football player is going to be bigger, faster and stronger than
your average rugby player,


In the scrums, we pushed them almost every time. As a wing three quarter,

I
can tell you that *I* personally never got tackled, though others did.


Yeah but it is a learned skill. Line up for a pass blocking drill in full
gear and I'll bet you wouldn't be pushing anyone around.


but the rugby player is going to have much more
satmina.


Absolutely we did. They were changing blokes all the time, we only had

about
25, IIRC, in total


Of course you did. Rugby is a sport with much more continuous running. The
exertion in American football is much more explosive. The fatigue that sets
in is entirely different.



When I was in Düsseldorf, our rugby team played against one of the

Americans
Football teams at one of their barracks (Rhienberg IIRC). One match

each
rugby and American football. We won both.


American football is far too complicated to learn in an
afternoon.


If you're playing pro, for sure. If you're having a frinedly "we'll play
yours if you'll play ours", not at all.


He is talking about any fully equiped level of play. Your friendly gave was
just not the same sport.

--
CBI


  #75  
Old June 30th 03, 03:35 AM
CBI
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Posts: n/a
Default OT (wildly): photo tix and dropping the hammer was Gotta keep it from The Children


"Dan Evans" wrote in message
...

"Tom Enright" wrote in message
om...

the players on your rugby team had played American football I'm calling

BS
on this one. American football is far too complicated to learn in an
afternoon.


OK, this is a global forum, so it's not as if anyone else who was there
can't post to deny it.

If anyone here, or anyone here knows anyone, that was either at the US
barracks at Rhineberg ( think it was Rhineberg, not 100% though. It was

the
big PX for the US troops that were stationed out of the US Corps areas, 1
and 2 US Corps IIRC) or Canaervon Barracks in Düsseldorf in 1989 that
remembers the UK/US Football/Rugby matches, or indeed the *non* event,
please post here.


You just don't get it. We are not saying the matches never happened - just
that you were not playing the sport of American football as it is played in
this country.

--
CBI


  #76  
Old July 1st 03, 12:32 AM
Dan Evans
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Default OT (wildly): photo tix and dropping the hammer was Gotta keep it from The Children


"CBI" wrote in message
...


"Dan Evans" wrote in message
...


In the scrums, we pushed them almost every time. As a wing three

quarter,
I
can tell you that *I* personally never got tackled, though others did.


Yeah but it is a learned skill. Line up for a pass blocking drill in full
gear and I'll bet you wouldn't be pushing anyone around.


Yeah, but we managed to tackle them when we played their game, but they had
difficulty catching us (whilst playing thier game).

Absolutely we did. They were changing blokes all the time, we only had

about
25, IIRC, in total


Of course you did. Rugby is a sport with much more continuous running.


I'm talking about when we played them at US football. My bad for not making
that clear. Had it been rugby, we wouldn't have been changing blokes unless
there was someone injured - someone who follows rugby would have realised
and I didn't think to explain, sorry.

The
exertion in American football is much more explosive. The fatigue that

sets
in is entirely different.


He is talking about any fully equiped level of play. Your friendly gave

was
just not the same sport.


Amateur level against amateur level - seems a fair match to me.

One thing that went in our favout was that we could almost play rugby, but
with obvious changes in position. It seems that their is (or at least was)
nothing in the rules that said US football *had* to be played the way it
was - or at least playing it the way we did didn't break any of them, but
was totally unexpected.

Dan


  #77  
Old July 1st 03, 12:32 AM
Dan Evans
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Default OT (wildly): photo tix and dropping the hammer was Gotta keep it from The Children


"CBI" wrote in message
...

You just don't get it. We are not saying the matches never happened - just
that you were not playing the sport of American football as it is played

in
this country.


They seemed to think they were playing the game they played when they were
back home (in the US), they were, after all , US servicemen.

The point I was contending was Tom saying our winning both US football and
Rugby was "BS".

Dan


  #78  
Old July 1st 03, 04:41 AM
CBI
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Posts: n/a
Default Gotta keep it from The Children


"silvasurfa" wrote in message
...

And as for my opinion about smokers and smoking... banning smoking in

public
parks doesn't nearly go far enough.


Personally, I would issue hunting licenses and set the kill limit at a
billion. I'm troubled by people who derive enjoyment at killing Bambi but
smokers I could live with.

--
CBI


  #79  
Old July 1st 03, 04:46 AM
CBI
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Posts: n/a
Default OT (wildly): photo tix and dropping the hammer was Gotta keep it from The Children


"Dan Evans" wrote in message
...

Yeah but it is a learned skill. Line up for a pass blocking drill in

full
gear and I'll bet you wouldn't be pushing anyone around.


Yeah, but we managed to tackle them when we played their game, but they

had
difficulty catching us (whilst playing thier game).


That is because tackling a guy running int he open (not right at you) with
no pads resembles rugby more than football. You were playing some game that
is neither but resembled rugby more than football and won. No kidding.


Absolutely we did. They were changing blokes all the time, we only had

about
25, IIRC, in total


Of course you did. Rugby is a sport with much more continuous running.


I'm talking about when we played them at US football. My bad for not

making
that clear.


You still don't get it. In the game you were playing there was no simulation
fot he full contact and line blocking that occurs in football. The fatigue
in football comes from making an all out effort pushing on a barely movable
object for short bursts of time (for the linemen) or from crashing through
a bunch of guys hitting you for 5 yards at a time (for backs).



He is talking about any fully equiped level of play. Your friendly gave

was
just not the same sport.


Amateur level against amateur level - seems a fair match to me.


The level of athletes isn't the issue.

Ameteur vs. Amateur is fair.

Playing rugby and then playing a sport more like rugby than football and
comparing the results is not.



One thing that went in our favout was that we could almost play rugby, but
with obvious changes in position. It seems that their is (or at least was)
nothing in the rules that said US football *had* to be played the way it
was - or at least playing it the way we did didn't break any of them, but
was totally unexpected.


Chances are you broke some of the rules.

--
CBI


  #80  
Old July 1st 03, 04:48 AM
CBI
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Posts: n/a
Default OT (wildly): photo tix and dropping the hammer was Gotta keep it from The Children



"Dan Evans" wrote in message
...

"CBI" wrote in message
...

You just don't get it. We are not saying the matches never happened -

just
that you were not playing the sport of American football as it is played

in
this country.


They seemed to think they were playing the game they played when they were
back home (in the US), they were, after all , US servicemen.


They just didn't get into a discussion of the differences between sandlot,
or pick-up, football and the full fledged game.



The point I was contending was Tom saying our winning both US football and
Rugby was "BS".


It was.

--
CBI


 




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