Deadbeats

"AZ Astrea" wrote in message news:

I'm happy to say, vasectomy has put all that behind me. (And that I'm
happy my wife no longer has to put up with the pill.)
----------
Hasn't her going off the pill cause problems with heavier cramping and
periods, pms, etc?

~AZ~

The only change I noticed was an increase in sex drive--a nice fringe
benefit of assuming control of bc!

trifold
www.vasectomy-information.com

"Phil #3" wrote in message link.net...
"witchwirsen" wrote in message
om...
"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...
"witchwirsen" wrote in message
om...
Vasectomy also makes sex painful for many men for 5 or 10 years. See
"PVP" on your cited web site. Just the probability of turning sex
into
pain would be enough to discourage most men -- if the medical industry
were honest enough to tell men about it.

Tubal's don't make sex painful for women.

No, the above is true, however, after tubal ligation most women
exprience exccessive bleeding with clotting until monopause, severe
cramping during menstruation, hormonal changes that effect them
physically and mentally, and longer menses.
-------------
Saying "most" women experience these problems is not true. Most women,
once
they heal, are fine. The only reason some may experience cramping,
heavier
periods and hormonal changes is if they were previously on birth control
pills and stopped taking them. Once their body gets used to not having
the
extra hormones things usually even out. And this stuff doesn't "last
until
menopause" just because of getting a tubal. Menstruation and all that
goes
with it generally lasts until menopause.
-----------------
I say 'most' trying to be objective because EVERY women I know who
have had tubals suffer from at least some of the symptoms above. (I
could have said all as that is my eperience)

You do NOT know most women, you don't even know 1% of them. If you base all
your opinions on nothing more than personal knowledge or experience of those
you know, you will formulate many completely false ideas, as evidenced by
some of your postings here.
For instance, someone living in a retirement community could say that most p
eople wear false teeth based on their personal experience and those they
know.

I have many myself, and
have not taken a birth control pill since '92. When, pray tell, will
my hormones 'even out'?

Women who receive a tubal ligation are at higher risk of tubal
pregnancy, a life threatening condition.
--------------
Where did you get that information from? Tubal pregnancies are quite
common, however, the danger doesn't come in until the fetus has grown
to a size that would cause srious problems, and tubal pregnancies
often end in miscarriage before it gets to that stage.
A "higher risk" is very, very small since the chances of a tubal
pregnancy
are next to nothing anyway.
-------------

One surgery is no better than the other. For either party.
---------------
A tubal requires general anesthesia and all the possible problems that
go
with it.
---------------
Not only that, but a tubal requires incisions through fat, skin,
muscle, and close possible contact with the bladder, intestines, bowl,
etc...potential problems.
Discomfort for one partner will cause discomfort for the other in some
way anyhow.
-------------
A man get a vasectomy, is uncomfortable having sex for 5 to 10 years
(as stated) and this will have an effect on his partner. A woman has
a tubal and exhibits the symptoms I stated, and it will have an effect
on her partner.

On what do you base this? Neither I nor anyone I know experienced pain
before, during or after sex from a vasectomy. I've never read of this being
common, in fact, I've never heard of it before. I think you are wrong in
this statement.
[snip the rest]
Phil #3

Ask Bob where that came from, he is the one who posted it (Boby)I was
just replying as if he had some idea whether or not that is true, does
not good to tell him it isn't...He'll just call you a whore or some
such...whoooops, my bad, maybe he will call you a prick instead.

"witchwirsen" wrote in message
om...
"Phil #3" wrote in message
link.net...
"witchwirsen" wrote in message
om...
"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...
"witchwirsen" wrote in message
om...
Vasectomy also makes sex painful for many men for 5 or 10 years.
See
"PVP" on your cited web site. Just the probability of turning sex
into
pain would be enough to discourage most men -- if the medical
industry
were honest enough to tell men about it.

Tubal's don't make sex painful for women.

No, the above is true, however, after tubal ligation most women
exprience exccessive bleeding with clotting until monopause,
severe
cramping during menstruation, hormonal changes that effect them
physically and mentally, and longer menses.
-------------
Saying "most" women experience these problems is not true. Most
women,
once
they heal, are fine. The only reason some may experience cramping,
heavier
periods and hormonal changes is if they were previously on birth
control
pills and stopped taking them. Once their body gets used to not
having
the
extra hormones things usually even out. And this stuff doesn't
"last
until
menopause" just because of getting a tubal. Menstruation and all
that
goes
with it generally lasts until menopause.
-----------------
I say 'most' trying to be objective because EVERY women I know who
have had tubals suffer from at least some of the symptoms above. (I
could have said all as that is my eperience)

You do NOT know most women, you don't even know 1% of them. If you base
all
your opinions on nothing more than personal knowledge or experience of
those
you know, you will formulate many completely false ideas, as evidenced
by
some of your postings here.
For instance, someone living in a retirement community could say that
most p
eople wear false teeth based on their personal experience and those they
know.

I have many myself, and
have not taken a birth control pill since '92. When, pray tell, will
my hormones 'even out'?

Women who receive a tubal ligation are at higher risk of tubal
pregnancy, a life threatening condition.
--------------
Where did you get that information from? Tubal pregnancies are quite
common, however, the danger doesn't come in until the fetus has grown
to a size that would cause srious problems, and tubal pregnancies
often end in miscarriage before it gets to that stage.
A "higher risk" is very, very small since the chances of a tubal
pregnancy
are next to nothing anyway.
-------------

One surgery is no better than the other. For either party.
---------------
A tubal requires general anesthesia and all the possible problems
that
go
with it.
---------------
Not only that, but a tubal requires incisions through fat, skin,
muscle, and close possible contact with the bladder, intestines, bowl,
etc...potential problems.
Discomfort for one partner will cause discomfort for the other in
some
way anyhow.
-------------
A man get a vasectomy, is uncomfortable having sex for 5 to 10 years
(as stated) and this will have an effect on his partner. A woman has
a tubal and exhibits the symptoms I stated, and it will have an effect
on her partner.

On what do you base this? Neither I nor anyone I know experienced pain
before, during or after sex from a vasectomy. I've never read of this
being
common, in fact, I've never heard of it before. I think you are wrong in
this statement.
[snip the rest]
Phil #3

Ask Bob where that came from, he is the one who posted it (Boby)I was
just replying as if he had some idea whether or not that is true, does
not good to tell him it isn't...He'll just call you a whore or some
such...whoooops, my bad, maybe he will call you a prick instead.

Sorry, then. I missed it if Bob posted it. Regardless who posted it, I think
it wrong information but like any intrusion into any part of the body,
occasionally there will be some problems. Personally, between the two, I
could better endure a chronic physical pain resulting from a medical
procedure far better than the never-ending emotional pain of having my child
legally ripped from my care.
If I knew then what I know now, I would never had fathered a child
intentionally. Not to be misconstrued as not loving my children, I think
they are priceless but I wouldn't do it again.
Phil #3

Hey -- you're out of line.

Sure, I've had my fun with Gini in the past -- but you know, she's
really on your side, if you're a halfway decent guy. You're being an
ass by making fun of her.

- Ron ^*^


Bob wrote:

Gini wrote:

Pammie does for Christianity what Bob does for dads' rights.



If Gini wasn't such a slimy whore with 3 *******s from fatheres she
never got the names of she might have be an example we can all follow.

Of course I see how. It's rather obvious. She has no room and board
expenses
for either herself or our son since she lives free with her dad who also
"babysits" our 18 year old. She takes a minimum of 5 trips to mexican
resorts each year, wears nice (I mean real nice) clothes and expensive
jewelry and drives a new car at least every three years while our son has
the bare minimum of clothing, nothing expensive, I assure you. He stays
home
with his grandparent while she's off on one of her frequent vacations.
She
flew out for a gambling trip in addition to her Mexico vacations last
year;
you tell me where the money goes, I bet it's even obvious to you.

Okay you have the obvious new clothes, new shoes or
whatever for the kid. Child support money is used to pay the
rent/mortgage to keep a roof over your kid(s) head, lights, water, gas,
day care, vehicle maintence (to go grocery shopping and anything esle),
food and these are just the basics.

Yeah, for most, I'd agree. Read above. None of these are her expenses at
all.

My kid likes to go to the fun park.
I am out of $40 for 3 hours of fun alone. What are you suggesting
women
do with the support money?

That's easy, for the exclusive use for the children, only.

I find taking care of the household is the
proper way to spend the money, and of course build a College savings
for
the kid. Child support is there to provide for the kid as if you are
living in that household. Now if your EX is evicted from her home then
you will know that she isn't using the child support money properly.

I know it whether she is "evicted" or not, which she won't be. She'll
stay
right there until her dad croaks and inheirit the house (he's in his 80's
with a heart condition and her mom died last year). She's leeched off of
one
man or another her whole life.
Do you think she could make it with, say, $400/mo C$ under the above
conditions? She doesn't think so, that's why I'm out about a grand each
month. Where does it go? For a couple of examples, re-read the above.
Phil #3

----------------

Okay Phil #3 I can see why you would be upset. That is totally wrong how
she is using her Child Support money. She is a leech. I think she can
live off $400 a month or less. It's not like she is has responsibilities.
She is living large at your expensive. That's not good. Have you tried
to modify? I am just curious if you can have your support lowered.

Pammie1

Daycare is usually in addition to base cs.
------------
vehicle maintence (to go grocery shopping and anything esle),
food and these are just the basics.
---------------
"The basics" are what cs is for.
------------
My kid likes to go to the fun park.
I am out of $40 for 3 hours of fun alone.
------------
$40 for the fun park is not something that is covered by cs nor should it
be. Cs is supposed to be for the basic living expenses. If you choose
to
put the kid in sports, piano lessons, gym membership that is an expense
to
be borne by you.
------------
What are you suggesting women
do with the support money? I find taking care of the household is the
proper way to spend the money, and of course build a College savings
for
the kid.
-------------
Building a college savings for the kid is not what cs is for. College is
an
entirely different part of a cs order. And why should a kid just because
they have divorced parents be guaranteed a college education when the
kids
of intact marriages aren't?
---------------
Child support is there to provide for the kid as if you are
living in that household.
---------------
That's the way its set up and it's called 'lifestyle' support. It's not
reality though and that is exactly what so many are ****ed about.
-------------
Now if your EX is evicted from her home then
you will know that she isn't using the child support money properly.

---------------
You also know that she isn't spending it on the kids when she spends all
her
time gambling at the casino or taking vacations away from the kids or
buying
herself expensive clothes and jewelry while the kids wear hand-me-downs
and
have to have their grandparents buy them shoes.
There is no reason that women shouldn't have to prove how the cs is
spent,
but then, that would just prove how unfair 'lifestyle' awards are.

~AZ~

Well AZ what are you suggesting Child support is to be used for? There
are women getting $1000 a month. You can only buy so many clothes, so
much food, etc.. I think putting money away for college is a great idea.
Do you not know that child support can be extended an extra 4 years if the
child decides to go to college? So that's a total of 22 years of child
support. Support money is used for college anyway thank you very much. I
think spending $40 at a fun park is better than spending it at a casino or
trips around the world. Since the dad isn't here to entertain the kid the
fun park makes up for that.


Pammie1

"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
Of course I see how. It's rather obvious. She has no room and board
expenses
for either herself or our son since she lives free with her dad who also
"babysits" our 18 year old. She takes a minimum of 5 trips to mexican
resorts each year, wears nice (I mean real nice) clothes and expensive
jewelry and drives a new car at least every three years while our son has
the bare minimum of clothing, nothing expensive, I assure you. He stays
home
with his grandparent while she's off on one of her frequent vacations.
She
flew out for a gambling trip in addition to her Mexico vacations last
year;
you tell me where the money goes, I bet it's even obvious to you.

Okay you have the obvious new clothes, new shoes or
whatever for the kid. Child support money is used to pay the
rent/mortgage to keep a roof over your kid(s) head, lights, water, gas,
day care, vehicle maintence (to go grocery shopping and anything esle),
food and these are just the basics.

Yeah, for most, I'd agree. Read above. None of these are her expenses at
all.

My kid likes to go to the fun park.
I am out of $40 for 3 hours of fun alone. What are you suggesting
women
do with the support money?

That's easy, for the exclusive use for the children, only.

I find taking care of the household is the
proper way to spend the money, and of course build a College savings
for
the kid. Child support is there to provide for the kid as if you are
living in that household. Now if your EX is evicted from her home then
you will know that she isn't using the child support money properly.

I know it whether she is "evicted" or not, which she won't be. She'll
stay
right there until her dad croaks and inheirit the house (he's in his 80's
with a heart condition and her mom died last year). She's leeched off of
one
man or another her whole life.
Do you think she could make it with, say, $400/mo C$ under the above
conditions? She doesn't think so, that's why I'm out about a grand each
month. Where does it go? For a couple of examples, re-read the above.
Phil #3

----------------

Okay Phil #3 I can see why you would be upset. That is totally wrong how
she is using her Child Support money. She is a leech. I think she can
live off $400 a month or less. It's not like she is has responsibilities.
She is living large at your expensive. That's not good. Have you tried
to modify? I am just curious if you can have your support lowered.

Pammie1

When it mattered most, I could not afford to even take off of work long
enough for a hearing, much less hire an attorney or even research it myself.
Now I'm down to less than a year so it would likely cost me as much or more
than I could save, not to mention I am temporarily stationed 1000 miles from
the state of origin.
Besides, I've learned to live without it, soon we'll see if SHE can
Phil #3

"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
Well AZ what are you suggesting Child support is to be used for? There
are women getting $1000 a month.

just because there are women receiving that kind of money for CS is not
justification for others to receive the same.

You can only buy so many clothes, so
much food, etc.. I think putting money away for college is a great idea.

I agree it is a great idea, but I believe you missed the point. If college
is something that is agreed on by both parents, then both parents should set
up their own college fund for the child. It is something that should not be
forced. I wouldn't force that on my fiance's ex - she couldn't afford it.

Do you not know that child support can be extended an extra 4 years if the
child decides to go to college? So that's a total of 22 years of child
support. Support money is used for college anyway thank you very much. I
think spending $40 at a fun park is better than spending it at a casino or
trips around the world. Since the dad isn't here to entertain the kid the
fun park makes up for that.

Yes $40 at a fun park is better spent then wasting it at a casino. We take
our kids to the movies often, plus go boating, riding, and other fun
activities. These items are paid by us. We don't expect the children's
other parent to help us do fun things with our children. Instead we would
rather allow them to have the ability to do those things on their own with
the kids. If they decide not to, then it is their choice - not ours. Not
to mention it is their loss - not ours. Unfortunately typically we have to
deal with the heartache of the children when their other parent skips out on
them. It is not easy being the parent of a child when the other parent is
not as active in their lives as you are. It happens, and it is part of
life. The key is to not put so much of a financial strain on the other
parent that they are unable to be part of the child's life. It is more in
the best interest of the child to have all parents involved in their lives -
not just one at the financial expense of the other.

Working out the financial support of children via divorce is something both
parents should do. It is better for the children if the parents would agree
on the amount. A state should not be making that decision.


Tracy
~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/

In article outparenting.com,
Pammie1 says...

AZ says

---------------
You also know that she isn't spending it on the kids when she spends all
her
time gambling at the casino or taking vacations away from the kids or
buying
herself expensive clothes and jewelry while the kids wear hand-me-downs
and
have to have their grandparents buy them shoes.
There is no reason that women shouldn't have to prove how the cs is
spent,
but then, that would just prove how unfair 'lifestyle' awards are.

~AZ~

Well AZ what are you suggesting Child support is to be used for? There
are women getting $1000 a month. You can only buy so many clothes, so
much food, etc.. I think putting money away for college is a great idea.
Do you not know that child support can be extended an extra 4 years if the
child decides to go to college?
======
That depends on the state. There is no post-minority/college support in FL or
PA.
======
======

"Pammie1" southerngirl@The Real Thing wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
Daycare is usually in addition to base cs.
------------
vehicle maintence (to go grocery shopping and anything esle),
food and these are just the basics.
---------------
"The basics" are what cs is for.
------------
My kid likes to go to the fun park.
I am out of $40 for 3 hours of fun alone.
------------
$40 for the fun park is not something that is covered by cs nor should it
be. Cs is supposed to be for the basic living expenses. If you choose
to
put the kid in sports, piano lessons, gym membership that is an expense
to
be borne by you.
------------
What are you suggesting women
do with the support money? I find taking care of the household is the
proper way to spend the money, and of course build a College savings
for
the kid.
-------------
Building a college savings for the kid is not what cs is for. College is
an
entirely different part of a cs order. And why should a kid just because
they have divorced parents be guaranteed a college education when the
kids
of intact marriages aren't?
---------------
Child support is there to provide for the kid as if you are
living in that household.
---------------
That's the way its set up and it's called 'lifestyle' support. It's not
reality though and that is exactly what so many are ****ed about.
-------------
Now if your EX is evicted from her home then
you will know that she isn't using the child support money properly.

---------------
You also know that she isn't spending it on the kids when she spends all
her
time gambling at the casino or taking vacations away from the kids or
buying
herself expensive clothes and jewelry while the kids wear hand-me-downs
and
have to have their grandparents buy them shoes.
There is no reason that women shouldn't have to prove how the cs is
spent,
but then, that would just prove how unfair 'lifestyle' awards are.

~AZ~

Well AZ what are you suggesting Child support is to be used for?
----------------
I'm NOT suggesting it be used for anything. The way that cs is supposedly
worked out it is supposed to be used to pay exactly what I said above. It
is NOT supposed to be used for college or for 'fun' things for the kid to
do. These things were not factored in to basic cs.
-------------------
There
are women getting $1000 a month. You can only buy so many clothes, so
much food, etc..
---------------
If someone is getting more cs than can be used on the kid, and I believe
most are, then that is just more proof that cs awards are excessive.
-------------
I think putting money away for college is a great idea.
Do you not know that child support can be extended an extra 4 years if the
child decides to go to college? So that's a total of 22 years of child
support.
------------
Not all states have this written into their laws.
-----------
Support money is used for college anyway thank you very much.
-------------
Cs is NOT supposed to be used for college unless and until it is ordered for
college. Using cs 'for college' when a kid is 10 or whatever is wrong. And
the biggest wrong about forcing a ncdad to pay for adult children in college
is that there is nothing similar, (at all), for kids from intact families.
Why should a kid from a broken family be provided with a college education
when there is no law requiring intact families to pay for their kids college
education? A law that not only forces a dad to pay but does so under threat
of prison!
--------------
-----------
I
think spending $40 at a fun park is better than spending it at a casino or
trips around the world. Since the dad isn't here to entertain the kid the
fun park makes up for that.
-------------
Say it as much as you want but that doesn't change the way cs is set up. So
you see, you are one of those women using cs in ways it is not intended.

~AZ~



Pammie1