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Arizona: CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings...



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 21st 07, 04:31 AM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking
fx
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,848
Default Arizona: CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings...

CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings

By Josh Brodesky , arizona daily star Fri Jul 20, 4:41 AM ET

E-mails sent between Child Protective Services employees raise new
questions about whether the agency followed its own guidelines by
keeping Ariana and Tyler Payne with their father, despite a court order
giving custody to their mother.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/azstar/20070...oungsiblin gs



The e-mails, which were among roughly 1,500 pages of records released to
the Arizona Daily Star on Thursday, also show the Arizona Center for
Disability Law is investigating the death earlier this year of
5-year-old Brandon Williams.

They indicate the state's Risk Management Office and Attorney General
are preparing for an anticipated claim and/or lawsuit in the deaths of
two of the children, although the names are among hundreds of items that
have been blacked out in the documents.

CPS has been in the media spotlight since this spring following the
deaths of the two Tucson children, and the disappearance of another,
with whom the agency had some type of involvement.

One of the key questions in the Payne case is what steps CPS must take
to supersede a court order for custody, and place a child with the
noncustodial parent.

"If the noncustodial parent wants the child placed with them, a home
study is done, a CPS and criminal background is done on all adults in
the home," says an e-mail exchange between officials who were crafting
an answer to a reporter's question.

But in the Payne case there has been little evidence those steps were taken.

CPS officials say the agency didn't place 4-year-old Ariana and
5-year-old Tyler Payne with their father, who is charged with killing
them. Jamie Hallam, their mother, sent them for a visit.

However, when Hallam called police for help retrieving her children when
the father didn't return them, a CPS worker directed police to leave
them with their father and to not enforce the court order. Ariana's body
was found Feb. 18. Tyler has not been found.

A CPS case summary says Payne was not the subject of any abuse
allegations, but there's no indication they checked his background,
which has a lengthy arrest record.

Brandon Williams, who was autistic, died in March as a result of a skull
fracture, but he also had a large amount of over-the-counter medication
in his system.

His mother Diane Marsh, and a roommate, Flower Tompson, have been
charged with his murder.

The Arizona Center for Disability Law opened an investigation into
Brandon's death in April following local news stories. That
investigation largely focuses on what services were offered or applied
for with the state's Division of Developmental Disabilities. It is also
looking at correspondence between CPS and developmental disabilities
workers regarding Brandon's death, as well as reports and action plans.

Many of the documents show a preoccupation with the media, or were
simply forwarding exchanges of news articles, commenting on them or
discussing how to handle questions. They were obtained as part of the
Star's lawsuit for access to complete CPS case files.

Arizona Daily Star





CURRENTLY CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES VIOLATES MORE CIVIL RIGHTS ON A
DAILY BASIS THEN ALL OTHER AGENCIES COMBINED INCLUDING THE NATIONAL
SECURITY AGENCY/CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY WIRETAPPING PROGRAM....

CPS Does not protect children...
It is sickening how many children are subject to abuse, neglect and even
killed at the hands of Child Protective Services.

every parent should read this .pdf from
connecticut dcf watch...

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com/8x11.pdf

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com

Number of Cases per 100,000 children in the US
These numbers come from The National Center on
Child Abuse and Neglect in Washington. (NCCAN)
Recent numbers have increased significantly for CPS

*Perpetrators of Maltreatment*

Physical Abuse CPS 160, Parents 59
Sexual Abuse CPS 112, Parents 13
Neglect CPS 410, Parents 241
Medical Neglect CPS 14 Parents 12
Fatalities CPS 6.4, Parents 1.5

Imagine that, 6.4 children die at the hands of the very agencies that
are supposed to protect them and only 1.5 at the hands of parents per
100,000 children. CPS perpetrates more abuse, neglect, and sexual abuse
and kills more children then parents in the United States. If the
citizens of this country hold CPS to the same standards that they hold
parents too. No judge should ever put another child in the hands of ANY
government agency because CPS nationwide is guilty of more harm and
death than any human being combined. CPS nationwide is guilty of more
human rights violations and deaths of children then the homes from which
they were removed. When are the judges going to wake up and see that
they are sending children to their death and a life of abuse when
children are removed from safe homes based on the mere opinion of a
bunch of social workers.

BE SURE TO FIND OUT WHERE YOUR CANDIDATES STANDS ON THE ISSUE OF
REFORMING OR ABOLISHING CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES ("MAKE YOUR CANDIDATES
TAKE A STAND ON THIS ISSUE.") THEN REMEMBER TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY IF THEY
ARE "FAMILY UNFRIENDLY" IN THE NEXT ELECTION...
  #2  
Old July 24th 07, 07:12 AM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking
Greegor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,243
Default Arizona: CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings...

The agency nitwits were preoccupied with the press??
Risk Management Office? (Official Damage Control re Law Suits?)

Kane once tried to say that CPS agencies didn't have PR people.
Posting several news stories where an ""agency spokesman said""
quickly brought that to a close.


On Jul 20, 10:31 pm, fx wrote:
CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings

By Josh Brodesky , arizona daily star Fri Jul 20, 4:41 AM ET

E-mails sent between Child Protective Services employees raise new
questions about whether the agency followed its own guidelines by
keeping Ariana and Tyler Payne with their father, despite a court order
giving custody to their mother.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/azstar/20070...ailsraisenewqu...

The e-mails, which were among roughly 1,500 pages of records released to
the Arizona Daily Star on Thursday, also show the Arizona Center for
Disability Law is investigating the death earlier this year of
5-year-old Brandon Williams.

They indicate the state's Risk Management Office and Attorney General
are preparing for an anticipated claim and/or lawsuit in the deaths of
two of the children, although the names are among hundreds of items that
have been blacked out in the documents.

CPS has been in the media spotlight since this spring following the
deaths of the two Tucson children, and the disappearance of another,
with whom the agency had some type of involvement.

One of the key questions in the Payne case is what steps CPS must take
to supersede a court order for custody, and place a child with the
noncustodial parent.

"If the noncustodial parent wants the child placed with them, a home
study is done, a CPS and criminal background is done on all adults in
the home," says an e-mail exchange between officials who were crafting
an answer to a reporter's question.

But in the Payne case there has been little evidence those steps were taken.

CPS officials say the agency didn't place 4-year-old Ariana and
5-year-old Tyler Payne with their father, who is charged with killing
them. Jamie Hallam, their mother, sent them for a visit.

However, when Hallam called police for help retrieving her children when
the father didn't return them, a CPS worker directed police to leave
them with their father and to not enforce the court order. Ariana's body
was found Feb. 18. Tyler has not been found.

A CPS case summary says Payne was not the subject of any abuse
allegations, but there's no indication they checked his background,
which has a lengthy arrest record.

Brandon Williams, who was autistic, died in March as a result of a skull
fracture, but he also had a large amount of over-the-counter medication
in his system.

His mother Diane Marsh, and a roommate, Flower Tompson, have been
charged with his murder.

The Arizona Center for Disability Law opened an investigation into
Brandon's death in April following local news stories. That
investigation largely focuses on what services were offered or applied
for with the state's Division of Developmental Disabilities. It is also
looking at correspondence between CPS and developmental disabilities
workers regarding Brandon's death, as well as reports and action plans.

Many of the documents show a preoccupation with the media, or were
simply forwarding exchanges of news articles, commenting on them or
discussing how to handle questions. They were obtained as part of the
Star's lawsuit for access to complete CPS case files.

Arizona Daily Star

CURRENTLY CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES VIOLATES MORE CIVIL RIGHTS ON A
DAILY BASIS THEN ALL OTHER AGENCIES COMBINED INCLUDING THE NATIONAL
SECURITY AGENCY/CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY WIRETAPPING PROGRAM....

CPS Does not protect children...
It is sickening how many children are subject to abuse, neglect and even
killed at the hands of Child Protective Services.

every parent should read this .pdf from
connecticut dcf watch...

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com/8x11.pdf

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com

Number of Cases per 100,000 children in the US
These numbers come from The National Center on
Child Abuse and Neglect in Washington. (NCCAN)
Recent numbers have increased significantly for CPS

*Perpetrators of Maltreatment*

Physical Abuse CPS 160, Parents 59
Sexual Abuse CPS 112, Parents 13
Neglect CPS 410, Parents 241
Medical Neglect CPS 14 Parents 12
Fatalities CPS 6.4, Parents 1.5

Imagine that, 6.4 children die at the hands of the very agencies that
are supposed to protect them and only 1.5 at the hands of parents per
100,000 children. CPS perpetrates more abuse, neglect, and sexual abuse
and kills more children then parents in the United States. If the
citizens of this country hold CPS to the same standards that they hold
parents too. No judge should ever put another child in the hands of ANY
government agency because CPS nationwide is guilty of more harm and
death than any human being combined. CPS nationwide is guilty of more
human rights violations and deaths of children then the homes from which
they were removed. When are the judges going to wake up and see that
they are sending children to their death and a life of abuse when
children are removed from safe homes based on the mere opinion of a
bunch of social workers.

BE SURE TO FIND OUT WHERE YOUR CANDIDATES STANDS ON THE ISSUE OF
REFORMING OR ABOLISHING CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES ("MAKE YOUR CANDIDATES
TAKE A STAND ON THIS ISSUE.") THEN REMEMBER TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY IF THEY
ARE "FAMILY UNFRIENDLY" IN THE NEXT ELECTION...



  #3  
Old July 24th 07, 03:31 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking
0:->
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,968
Default Arizona: CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings...

On Jul 23, 11:12 pm, Greegor wrote:
The agency nitwits were preoccupied with the press??


Do you wish them not to be? If so, what is your problem with attention
to this issue? Do you wish lies to be told, and stories misconstrued,
and facts skewed, or are you willing to hear, or see in this case,
both sides of the issue?

If not why not?

Maintenance of your ignorance to ease your conscience as you lie lie
lie?

Risk Management Office? (Official Damage Control re Law Suits?)


You wish the state to sqaunder away YOUR, and incidentally MY tax
dollars? What would you think of a company YOU were invested in that
did not manage risk (there is also a front end component to Risk
Management, you illiterate ****ant, that writes and enforces safety
issues in the various aspects throughout a government agency, from
handing toxic office products, to foster home inspection for fire and
physical safety...you no nothing boob) and allowed YOUR investment to
be ****ed away on suits, and didn't defend vigorously against them?

Well, the government is YOUR investment ... if you bother to pay
taxes, and speak up about issues, and you are suggesting they simply
**** it away.

This is why, having seen you pull this kind of **** in the past, I
call you and anti-government nitwit.

YOU don't know how to run your own organization, and it's all writ OUT
for you and as easy as a recipe. Your idea of managing your government
is simply to **** in the pot, and call it bad soup.


Kane once tried to say that CPS agencies didn't have PR people.


"Once TRIED say?" I said it or didn't, you illiterate ****ant. 0:]

That like saying someone pretended to claim. You negate the verb by
your stupid illiteracy. If I pretend to claim, then I didn't REALLY
CLAIM. If I only TRIED to say something, then I obviously did not,
unless you say so, COMPLETE THE ACT....I would, in fact, if I had not
stopped trying still be back there in the past -- trying.

And I didn't. What I said was budget cuts had reduced PR people...and
most states only had ONE to begin with. Many don't even bother with
them, and that's criminal when it comes to running a government
agency. YOU want any and all workers and staff to answer the entire
public stream of questions wihtout any cohesion and sense to it?

Of course you do, because you can jump on different renditions and
claim THEY ARE LYING THEY CAN'T EVEN KEEP THEIR STORY STRIAGHT.

This is the same ****ant, YOU, that claims that psychiatry is flawed
because shrinks don't all agree on the details of diagnosis.

Two docs can look at a pic of a broken bone, you stupid slobbering
whining pig, and disagree on the best proceedure for setting it. Big
****in' deal.

As for PR people; now if they have come back, or some states didnt'
lose them, that fits within the perameters of my statement as
factual.

Do you have a problem with this?

Posting several news stories where an ""agency spokesman said""
quickly brought that to a close.


That I said there were no PR people?

Of course, because I never said that stupid.

Just like all liars you will NOT provide proof when asked.

So I'll not bother. But know this marks you again, as a liar.

You have a habit, as surely as someone with a drug habit, Greg.

If your only tool for pursuing your biased agenda is to lie, you are
bound to get hooked on lying as your mode of operations.

Apparently in all things pertaining to CPS.

Now I have to wonder: do you carry this into your personal life as
well?

Do you lie to Lisa as a matter of course?

And is that why she's never appeared her on her own when we've asked
you to invite her to tell her own story....or is she too fragile to
take questions of a sensitive nature?

Since YOU proposed to respond (I'm going to one up you for fun on the
misappropriated adverb from time to time you illiterate stupid little
man) by AD HOM ONLY to this posting of fx, which I found one of his
more useful, it's now time for the question.

Exactly what in the article do you have a problem with, and why?

Nice talkin' whitcha.

0:]




On Jul 20, 10:31 pm, fx wrote:



CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings


By Josh Brodesky , arizona daily star Fri Jul 20, 4:41 AM ET


E-mails sent between Child Protective Services employees raise new
questions about whether the agency followed its own guidelines by
keeping Ariana and Tyler Payne with their father, despite a court order
giving custody to their mother.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/azstar/20070...ailsraisenewqu...


The e-mails, which were among roughly 1,500 pages of records released to
the Arizona Daily Star on Thursday, also show the Arizona Center for
Disability Law is investigating the death earlier this year of
5-year-old Brandon Williams.


They indicate the state's Risk Management Office and Attorney General
are preparing for an anticipated claim and/or lawsuit in the deaths of
two of the children, although the names are among hundreds of items that
have been blacked out in the documents.


CPS has been in the media spotlight since this spring following the
deaths of the two Tucson children, and the disappearance of another,
with whom the agency had some type of involvement.


One of the key questions in the Payne case is what steps CPS must take
to supersede a court order for custody, and place a child with the
noncustodial parent.


"If the noncustodial parent wants the child placed with them, a home
study is done, a CPS and criminal background is done on all adults in
the home," says an e-mail exchange between officials who were crafting
an answer to a reporter's question.


But in the Payne case there has been little evidence those steps were taken.


CPS officials say the agency didn't place 4-year-old Ariana and
5-year-old Tyler Payne with their father, who is charged with killing
them. Jamie Hallam, their mother, sent them for a visit.


However, when Hallam called police for help retrieving her children when
the father didn't return them, a CPS worker directed police to leave
them with their father and to not enforce the court order. Ariana's body
was found Feb. 18. Tyler has not been found.


A CPS case summary says Payne was not the subject of any abuse
allegations, but there's no indication they checked his background,
which has a lengthy arrest record.


Brandon Williams, who was autistic, died in March as a result of a skull
fracture, but he also had a large amount of over-the-counter medication
in his system.


His mother Diane Marsh, and a roommate, Flower Tompson, have been
charged with his murder.


The Arizona Center for Disability Law opened an investigation into
Brandon's death in April following local news stories. That
investigation largely focuses on what services were offered or applied
for with the state's Division of Developmental Disabilities. It is also
looking at correspondence between CPS and developmental disabilities
workers regarding Brandon's death, as well as reports and action plans.


Many of the documents show a preoccupation with the media, or were
simply forwarding exchanges of news articles, commenting on them or
discussing how to handle questions. They were obtained as part of the
Star's lawsuit for access to complete CPS case files.


Arizona Daily Star


CURRENTLY CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES VIOLATES MORE CIVIL RIGHTS ON A
DAILY BASIS THEN ALL OTHER AGENCIES COMBINED INCLUDING THE NATIONAL
SECURITY AGENCY/CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY WIRETAPPING PROGRAM....


CPS Does not protect children...
It is sickening how many children are subject to abuse, neglect and even
killed at the hands of Child Protective Services.


every parent should read this .pdf from
connecticut dcf watch...


http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com/8x11.pdf


http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com


Number of Cases per 100,000 children in the US
These numbers come from The National Center on
Child Abuse and Neglect in Washington. (NCCAN)
Recent numbers have increased significantly for CPS


*Perpetrators of Maltreatment*


Physical Abuse CPS 160, Parents 59
Sexual Abuse CPS 112, Parents 13
Neglect CPS 410, Parents 241
Medical Neglect CPS 14 Parents 12
Fatalities CPS 6.4, Parents 1.5


Imagine that, 6.4 children die at the hands of the very agencies that
are supposed to protect them and only 1.5 at the hands of parents per
100,000 children. CPS perpetrates more abuse, neglect, and sexual abuse
and kills more children then parents in the United States. If the
citizens of this country hold CPS to the same standards that they hold
parents too. No judge should ever put another child in the hands of ANY
government agency because CPS nationwide is guilty of more harm and
death than any human being combined. CPS nationwide is guilty of more
human rights violations and deaths of children then the homes from which
they were removed. When are the judges going to wake up and see that
they are sending children to their death and a life of abuse when
children are removed from safe homes based on the mere opinion of a
bunch of social workers.


BE SURE TO FIND OUT WHERE YOUR CANDIDATES STANDS ON THE ISSUE OF
REFORMING OR ABOLISHING CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES ("MAKE YOUR CANDIDATES
TAKE A STAND ON THIS ISSUE.") THEN REMEMBER TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY IF THEY
ARE "FAMILY UNFRIENDLY" IN THE NEXT ELECTION...- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -



  #4  
Old July 24th 07, 10:22 PM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking
Greegor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,243
Default Arizona: CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings...

On Jul 24, 9:31 am, "0:-" wrote:
On Jul 23, 11:12 pm, Greegor wrote:

The agency nitwits were preoccupied with the press??


Do you wish them not to be? If so, what is your problem with attention
to this issue? Do you wish lies to be told, and stories misconstrued,
and facts skewed, or are you willing to hear, or see in this case,
both sides of the issue?

If not why not?


How would the public see both sides of the case?

Maintenance of your ignorance to ease your conscience as you lie lie
lie?


You are Donald L. Fisher and you were employed by Oregon Child
Protection.

Risk Management Office? (Official Damage Control re Law Suits?)


You wish the state to sqaunder away YOUR, and incidentally MY tax
dollars? What would you think of a company YOU were invested in that
did not manage risk (there is also a front end component to Risk
Management, you illiterate ****ant, that writes and enforces safety
issues in the various aspects throughout a government agency, from
handing toxic office products, to foster home inspection for fire and
physical safety...you no nothing boob) and allowed YOUR investment to
be ****ed away on suits, and didn't defend vigorously against them?

Well, the government is YOUR investment ... if you bother to pay
taxes, and speak up about issues, and you are suggesting they simply
**** it away.

This is why, having seen you pull this kind of [s] in the past, I
call you and anti-government nitwit.

YOU don't know how to run your own organization, and it's all writ OUT
for you and as easy as a recipe. Your idea of managing your government
is simply to **** in the pot, and call it bad soup.


I am glad that I could cheer you up so!

Kane once tried to say that CPS agencies didn't have PR people.


"Once TRIED say?" I said it or didn't, you illiterate ****ant. 0:]

That like saying someone pretended to claim. You negate the verb by
your stupid illiteracy. If I pretend to claim, then I didn't REALLY
CLAIM. If I only TRIED to say something, then I obviously did not,
unless you say so, COMPLETE THE ACT....I would, in fact, if I had not
stopped trying still be back there in the past -- trying.

And I didn't. What I said was budget cuts had reduced PR people...and
most states only had ONE to begin with. Many don't even bother with
them, and that's criminal when it comes to running a government
agency. YOU want any and all workers and staff to answer the entire
public stream of questions wihtout any cohesion and sense to it?


Certainly Not! The truth get loose by accident! LOL!

Of course you do, because you can jump on different renditions and
claim THEY ARE LYING THEY CAN'T EVEN KEEP THEIR STORY STRIAGHT.


You are talking about government agents who go into court
and testify as to ""facts"". The above complaint is very logical!

This is the same ****ant, YOU, that claims that psychiatry is flawed
because shrinks don't all agree on the details of diagnosis.


No problem except for testifying under oath to a Judge
about how certain they are about something.

Two docs can look at a pic of a broken bone, you stupid slobbering
whining pig, and disagree on the best proceedure for setting it. Big
[f]in' deal.


Also of considerably more concern when they go into
court and push their version as ""truth"" in court.

Or if the patient dies from the minority (or majority) opinion.

As for PR people; now if they have come back, or some states didnt'
lose them, that fits within the perameters of my statement as
factual.


Roger Munns.

Do you have a problem with this?


How is a PR person not a PIMP for the political agenda of the agency?

Posting several news stories where an ""agency spokesman said""
quickly brought that to a close.


That I said there were no PR people?

Of course, because I never said that stupid.

Just like all liars you will NOT provide proof when asked.


You played that out, Kane.
An anonymous internet geek constantly asking for proof
of everything? It's described on the internet as a pathology.

So I'll not bother. But know this marks you again, as a liar.


Hitler hates me. Yippee! Ptptptptpt!

You have a habit, as surely as someone with a drug habit, Greg.


Oreos and Milk.

If your only tool for pursuing your biased agenda is to lie snip


It isn't.

Apparently in all things pertaining to CPS.


Can I buy a verb?

Now I have to wonder: do you carry this into your personal life as
well?


The missing verb?

Do you lie to Lisa as a matter of course?


What Lisa? You said she kicked me out!

And is that why she's never appeared her on her own when we've asked
you to invite her to tell her own story....or is she too fragile to
take questions of a sensitive nature?


She hates system sucks more than I do.
How is Ann doing?

Since YOU proposed to respond (I'm going to one up you for fun on the
misappropriated adverb from time to time you illiterate stupid little
man) by AD HOM ONLY to this posting of fx, which I found one of his
more useful, it's now time for the question.


Flipping out? Run on sentence beyond comprehension.

Exactly what in the article do you have a problem with, and why?


I think the article is GREAT!
It echos what I already know about the workings
behind the scenes at the CPS agencies.

Nice talkin' whitcha.





On Jul 20, 10:31 pm, fx wrote:


CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings


By Josh Brodesky , arizona daily star Fri Jul 20, 4:41 AM ET


E-mails sent between Child Protective Services employees raise new
questions about whether the agency followed its own guidelines by
keeping Ariana and Tyler Payne with their father, despite a court order
giving custody to their mother.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/azstar/20070...ailsraisenewqu...


The e-mails, which were among roughly 1,500 pages of records released to
the Arizona Daily Star on Thursday, also show the Arizona Center for
Disability Law is investigating the death earlier this year of
5-year-old Brandon Williams.


They indicate the state's Risk Management Office and Attorney General
are preparing for an anticipated claim and/or lawsuit in the deaths of
two of the children, although the names are among hundreds of items that
have been blacked out in the documents.


CPS has been in the media spotlight since this spring following the
deaths of the two Tucson children, and the disappearance of another,
with whom the agency had some type of involvement.


One of the key questions in the Payne case is what steps CPS must take
to supersede a court order for custody, and place a child with the
noncustodial parent.


"If the noncustodial parent wants the child placed with them, a home
study is done, a CPS and criminal background is done on all adults in
the home," says an e-mail exchange between officials who were crafting
an answer to a reporter's question.


But in the Payne case there has been little evidence those steps were taken.


CPS officials say the agency didn't place 4-year-old Ariana and
5-year-old Tyler Payne with their father, who is charged with killing
them. Jamie Hallam, their mother, sent them for a visit.


However, when Hallam called police for help retrieving her children when
the father didn't return them, a CPS worker directed police to leave
them with their father and to not enforce the court order. Ariana's body
was found Feb. 18. Tyler has not been found.


A CPS case summary says Payne was not the subject of any abuse
allegations, but there's no indication they checked his background,
which has a lengthy arrest record.


Brandon Williams, who was autistic, died in March as a result of a skull
fracture, but he also had a large amount of over-the-counter medication
in his system.


His mother Diane Marsh, and a roommate, Flower Tompson, have been
charged with his murder.


The Arizona Center for Disability Law opened an investigation into
Brandon's death in April following local news stories. That
investigation largely focuses on what services were offered or applied
for with the state's Division of Developmental Disabilities. It is also
looking at correspondence between CPS and developmental disabilities
workers regarding Brandon's death, as well as reports and action plans.


Many of the documents show a preoccupation with the media, or were
simply forwarding exchanges of news articles, commenting on them or
discussing how to handle questions. They were obtained as part of the
Star's lawsuit for access to complete CPS case files.


Arizona Daily Star


  #5  
Old July 25th 07, 03:59 AM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking
0:-]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Arizona: CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings...

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:22:51 -0700, Greegor
wrote:

On Jul 24, 9:31 am, "0:-" wrote:
On Jul 23, 11:12 pm, Greegor wrote:

The agency nitwits were preoccupied with the press??


Do you wish them not to be? If so, what is your problem with attention
to this issue? Do you wish lies to be told, and stories misconstrued,
and facts skewed, or are you willing to hear, or see in this case,
both sides of the issue?

If not why not?


How would the public see both sides of the case?


The press, like now?

You mean that if CPS released information that would silence other
sources, opposition sources?

And the press would ignore them and not ask for their view?

Maintenance of your ignorance to ease your conscience as you lie lie
lie?


You are Donald L. Fisher and you were employed by Oregon Child
Protection.


Your point?

If I'm lying in what way does that excuse you?

Risk Management Office? (Official Damage Control re Law Suits?)


You wish the state to sqaunder away YOUR, and incidentally MY tax
dollars? What would you think of a company YOU were invested in that
did not manage risk (there is also a front end component to Risk
Management, you illiterate ****ant, that writes and enforces safety
issues in the various aspects throughout a government agency, from
handing toxic office products, to foster home inspection for fire and
physical safety...you no nothing boob) and allowed YOUR investment to
be ****ed away on suits, and didn't defend vigorously against them?

Well, the government is YOUR investment ... if you bother to pay
taxes, and speak up about issues, and you are suggesting they simply
**** it away.

This is why, having seen you pull this kind of [s] in the past, I
call you and anti-government nitwit.

YOU don't know how to run your own organization, and it's all writ OUT
for you and as easy as a recipe. Your idea of managing your government
is simply to **** in the pot, and call it bad soup.


I am glad that I could cheer you up so!


Taking you down does.

Kane once tried to say that CPS agencies didn't have PR people.


"Once TRIED say?" I said it or didn't, you illiterate ****ant. 0:]

That like saying someone pretended to claim. You negate the verb by
your stupid illiteracy. If I pretend to claim, then I didn't REALLY
CLAIM. If I only TRIED to say something, then I obviously did not,
unless you say so, COMPLETE THE ACT....I would, in fact, if I had not
stopped trying still be back there in the past -- trying.

And I didn't. What I said was budget cuts had reduced PR people...and
most states only had ONE to begin with. Many don't even bother with
them, and that's criminal when it comes to running a government
agency. YOU want any and all workers and staff to answer the entire
public stream of questions wihtout any cohesion and sense to it?


Certainly Not! The truth get loose by accident! LOL!


And this is outside the norm how?

You know any large organization that does NOT have a control system
for the public release of information, private sector, or public
government sector?

Of course you do, because you can jump on different renditions and
claim THEY ARE LYING THEY CAN'T EVEN KEEP THEIR STORY STRIAGHT.


You are talking about government agents who go into court
and testify as to ""facts"". The above complaint is very logical!


NO it isn't. It's easy to get lots of different stories from lots of
different people until you can find one you can use as "the truth."

In fact, you could gain information by threat, and simply be lying.

No, the above complaint is not very logical. It's criminal think.

The "I'll con until I get what I want, not the truth, and I'll use it
and claim it is."

Why do you think lawyers will so often recommend the accused no take
the stand? Because he's guilty, or because he can be MADE to look
guilty more easily than others might?

You can't really tell, but the principle is sound. Don't run out long
long strings of information and not expect to have some of it used
against you.

This is the same ****ant, YOU, that claims that psychiatry is flawed
because shrinks don't all agree on the details of diagnosis.


No problem except for testifying under oath to a Judge
about how certain they are about something.


So you'll go fishing at CPS until you find what you want from some
one, have them testify in court....that makes it more legitimate?

You might find it blow up in you face, when that hand goes up and the
other is on the Bible, and the words, "contempt," and "false
testimony" wander around in their heads as they say the oath.

Two docs can look at a pic of a broken bone, you stupid slobbering
whining pig, and disagree on the best proceedure for setting it. Big
[f]in' deal.


Also of considerably more concern when they go into
court and push their version as ""truth"" in court.


Yep. And your way is better...find someone that will lie for you --
mabye?

Or if the patient dies from the minority (or majority) opinion.


**** happens. But you wish to pick from the majority, your own special
version to support your bias, and take the same chance.

With you, it's with people you wish to lab rat...not yourself, but
others.

I'd say go for the truth even if it hurts, and hope for an admiring
reduction by way of appreciating being given the truth. It's so damn
rare. At least you can feel better about yourself.

As for PR people; now if they have come back, or some states didnt'
lose them, that fits within the perameters of my statement as
factual.


Roger Munns.


Now there he goes, with his playground, "nyah nyah nyah, I know
something YOU don't."


Do you have a problem with this?


How is a PR person not a PIMP for the political agenda of the agency?


Because he's not selling someone else's pussy?

Posting several news stories where an ""agency spokesman said""
quickly brought that to a close.


That I said there were no PR people?

Of course, because I never said that stupid.

Just like all liars you will NOT provide proof when asked.


You played that out, Kane.


Mmm...you mean asked for proof that I said something? We are supposed
to take your word for it when I believe I said no such thing?

An anonymous internet geek constantly asking for proof
of everything?


Let me see now, that would work out to, logically, that all those that
post anonymously are nuts if they ask for proof, right?

It's described on the internet as a pathology.


Proof please. R R RR R R R R R R R ...R.R.R..R.R.R.RR.
A....R..ER.AFDA.SDF..AD....Crazy enough for yah, buddy.

So I'll not bother. But know this marks you again, as a liar.


Hitler hates me. Yippee! Ptptptptpt!


Bingo, you lost. First mention of Hitler.

I don't hate liars, unless their lies hurt others. Your do and have
great potential do. Like trying to con people into believing that most
of what CPS does is unconstitutional and they should force the state
to take them to court to use the constitution as their defense.

Yeah, Greg. I hate that.

You have a habit, as surely as someone with a drug habit, Greg.


Oreos and Milk.

....and lying. And not standing up for his beliefs. And refusing to
answer when he's revealed what may be a very dangerous criminal
mindset about the use of lethal force.

If your only tool for pursuing your biased agenda is to lie snip


It isn't.


Sure it is. You can't handle the truth.

Apparently in all things pertaining to CPS.


Can I buy a verb?


Sure, then use a few to explain, and ask for more if you need them,
how the legal aspects of a removal case by the state is a factor in
whether or not you'd support the use of lethal force to take the child
from the state.


Now I have to wonder: do you carry this into your personal life as
well?


The missing verb?


The missing answer?


Do you lie to Lisa as a matter of course?


What Lisa? You said she kicked me out!


And changed her name? Well, given now badly you've treated her, no
damn wonder.

You can't speak to her either?

And is that why she's never appeared her on her own when we've asked
you to invite her to tell her own story....or is she too fragile to
take questions of a sensitive nature?


She hates system sucks more than I do.


Then let her come her and confront them.

How is Ann doing?


I don't know. My own wife's name is Kate.

Since YOU proposed to respond (I'm going to one up you for fun on the
misappropriated adverb from time to time you illiterate stupid little
man) by AD HOM ONLY to this posting of fx, which I found one of his
more useful, it's now time for the question.


Flipping out? Run on sentence beyond comprehension.


Since YOU proposed to respond by AD HOM ONLY to this posting of fx,
which I found one of his more useful, it's now time for the question.

That help a little? Sorry about your comprehension problems. I forgot
again, my bad.


Exactly what in the article do you have a problem with, and why?


I think the article is GREAT!
It echos what I already know about the workings
behind the scenes at the CPS agencies.


Then why not say so at the beginning instead of using it to fog from
the central question facing you these days?


Nice talkin' whitcha.



Nice watching you dodge about.

0:]





On Jul 20, 10:31 pm, fx wrote:


CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings


By Josh Brodesky , arizona daily star Fri Jul 20, 4:41 AM ET


E-mails sent between Child Protective Services employees raise new
questions about whether the agency followed its own guidelines by
keeping Ariana and Tyler Payne with their father, despite a court order
giving custody to their mother.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/azstar/20070...ailsraisenewqu...


The e-mails, which were among roughly 1,500 pages of records released to
the Arizona Daily Star on Thursday, also show the Arizona Center for
Disability Law is investigating the death earlier this year of
5-year-old Brandon Williams.


They indicate the state's Risk Management Office and Attorney General
are preparing for an anticipated claim and/or lawsuit in the deaths of
two of the children, although the names are among hundreds of items that
have been blacked out in the documents.


CPS has been in the media spotlight since this spring following the
deaths of the two Tucson children, and the disappearance of another,
with whom the agency had some type of involvement.


One of the key questions in the Payne case is what steps CPS must take
to supersede a court order for custody, and place a child with the
noncustodial parent.


"If the noncustodial parent wants the child placed with them, a home
study is done, a CPS and criminal background is done on all adults in
the home," says an e-mail exchange between officials who were crafting
an answer to a reporter's question.


But in the Payne case there has been little evidence those steps were taken.


CPS officials say the agency didn't place 4-year-old Ariana and
5-year-old Tyler Payne with their father, who is charged with killing
them. Jamie Hallam, their mother, sent them for a visit.


However, when Hallam called police for help retrieving her children when
the father didn't return them, a CPS worker directed police to leave
them with their father and to not enforce the court order. Ariana's body
was found Feb. 18. Tyler has not been found.


A CPS case summary says Payne was not the subject of any abuse
allegations, but there's no indication they checked his background,
which has a lengthy arrest record.


Brandon Williams, who was autistic, died in March as a result of a skull
fracture, but he also had a large amount of over-the-counter medication
in his system.


His mother Diane Marsh, and a roommate, Flower Tompson, have been
charged with his murder.


The Arizona Center for Disability Law opened an investigation into
Brandon's death in April following local news stories. That
investigation largely focuses on what services were offered or applied
for with the state's Division of Developmental Disabilities. It is also
looking at correspondence between CPS and developmental disabilities
workers regarding Brandon's death, as well as reports and action plans.


Many of the documents show a preoccupation with the media, or were
simply forwarding exchanges of news articles, commenting on them or
discussing how to handle questions. They were obtained as part of the
Star's lawsuit for access to complete CPS case files.


Arizona Daily Star


  #6  
Old July 25th 07, 01:24 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
bodie via FamilyKB.com
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Arizona: CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings...

Don't spend any time responding to this idiot. Anyone with an IQ over 70
understands that he's not rational. He whiles away his days spamming every
forum he can find to spew his hate against CPS for doing their jobs and
ensuring the safety of his children. It's already been shown in previous
threads that he's been taken to court by the state for abuse/neglect, and
he's just ****ed that he got caught.
Go crawl into a hole, Greegor-you're taking up good air!

0:-] wrote:
The agency nitwits were preoccupied with the press??

[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]

How would the public see both sides of the case?


The press, like now?

You mean that if CPS released information that would silence other
sources, opposition sources?

And the press would ignore them and not ask for their view?

Maintenance of your ignorance to ease your conscience as you lie lie
lie?


You are Donald L. Fisher and you were employed by Oregon Child
Protection.


Your point?

If I'm lying in what way does that excuse you?

Risk Management Office? (Official Damage Control re Law Suits?)

[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]

I am glad that I could cheer you up so!


Taking you down does.

Kane once tried to say that CPS agencies didn't have PR people.

[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]

Certainly Not! The truth get loose by accident! LOL!


And this is outside the norm how?

You know any large organization that does NOT have a control system
for the public release of information, private sector, or public
government sector?

Of course you do, because you can jump on different renditions and
claim THEY ARE LYING THEY CAN'T EVEN KEEP THEIR STORY STRIAGHT.


You are talking about government agents who go into court
and testify as to ""facts"". The above complaint is very logical!


NO it isn't. It's easy to get lots of different stories from lots of
different people until you can find one you can use as "the truth."

In fact, you could gain information by threat, and simply be lying.

No, the above complaint is not very logical. It's criminal think.

The "I'll con until I get what I want, not the truth, and I'll use it
and claim it is."

Why do you think lawyers will so often recommend the accused no take
the stand? Because he's guilty, or because he can be MADE to look
guilty more easily than others might?

You can't really tell, but the principle is sound. Don't run out long
long strings of information and not expect to have some of it used
against you.

This is the same ****ant, YOU, that claims that psychiatry is flawed
because shrinks don't all agree on the details of diagnosis.


No problem except for testifying under oath to a Judge
about how certain they are about something.


So you'll go fishing at CPS until you find what you want from some
one, have them testify in court....that makes it more legitimate?

You might find it blow up in you face, when that hand goes up and the
other is on the Bible, and the words, "contempt," and "false
testimony" wander around in their heads as they say the oath.

Two docs can look at a pic of a broken bone, you stupid slobbering
whining pig, and disagree on the best proceedure for setting it. Big
[f]in' deal.


Also of considerably more concern when they go into
court and push their version as ""truth"" in court.


Yep. And your way is better...find someone that will lie for you --
mabye?

Or if the patient dies from the minority (or majority) opinion.


**** happens. But you wish to pick from the majority, your own special
version to support your bias, and take the same chance.

With you, it's with people you wish to lab rat...not yourself, but
others.

I'd say go for the truth even if it hurts, and hope for an admiring
reduction by way of appreciating being given the truth. It's so damn
rare. At least you can feel better about yourself.

As for PR people; now if they have come back, or some states didnt'
lose them, that fits within the perameters of my statement as
factual.


Roger Munns.


Now there he goes, with his playground, "nyah nyah nyah, I know
something YOU don't."

Do you have a problem with this?


How is a PR person not a PIMP for the political agenda of the agency?


Because he's not selling someone else's pussy?

Posting several news stories where an ""agency spokesman said""
quickly brought that to a close.

[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]

You played that out, Kane.


Mmm...you mean asked for proof that I said something? We are supposed
to take your word for it when I believe I said no such thing?

An anonymous internet geek constantly asking for proof
of everything?


Let me see now, that would work out to, logically, that all those that
post anonymously are nuts if they ask for proof, right?

It's described on the internet as a pathology.


Proof please. R R RR R R R R R R R ...R.R.R..R.R.R.RR.
A....R..ER.AFDA.SDF..AD....Crazy enough for yah, buddy.

So I'll not bother. But know this marks you again, as a liar.


Hitler hates me. Yippee! Ptptptptpt!


Bingo, you lost. First mention of Hitler.

I don't hate liars, unless their lies hurt others. Your do and have
great potential do. Like trying to con people into believing that most
of what CPS does is unconstitutional and they should force the state
to take them to court to use the constitution as their defense.

Yeah, Greg. I hate that.

You have a habit, as surely as someone with a drug habit, Greg.


Oreos and Milk.

...and lying. And not standing up for his beliefs. And refusing to
answer when he's revealed what may be a very dangerous criminal
mindset about the use of lethal force.

If your only tool for pursuing your biased agenda is to lie snip


It isn't.


Sure it is. You can't handle the truth.

Apparently in all things pertaining to CPS.


Can I buy a verb?


Sure, then use a few to explain, and ask for more if you need them,
how the legal aspects of a removal case by the state is a factor in
whether or not you'd support the use of lethal force to take the child
from the state.

Now I have to wonder: do you carry this into your personal life as
well?


The missing verb?


The missing answer?

Do you lie to Lisa as a matter of course?


What Lisa? You said she kicked me out!


And changed her name? Well, given now badly you've treated her, no
damn wonder.

You can't speak to her either?

And is that why she's never appeared her on her own when we've asked
you to invite her to tell her own story....or is she too fragile to
take questions of a sensitive nature?


She hates system sucks more than I do.


Then let her come her and confront them.

How is Ann doing?


I don't know. My own wife's name is Kate.

Since YOU proposed to respond (I'm going to one up you for fun on the
misappropriated adverb from time to time you illiterate stupid little
man) by AD HOM ONLY to this posting of fx, which I found one of his
more useful, it's now time for the question.


Flipping out? Run on sentence beyond comprehension.


Since YOU proposed to respond by AD HOM ONLY to this posting of fx,
which I found one of his more useful, it's now time for the question.

That help a little? Sorry about your comprehension problems. I forgot
again, my bad.

Exactly what in the article do you have a problem with, and why?


I think the article is GREAT!
It echos what I already know about the workings
behind the scenes at the CPS agencies.


Then why not say so at the beginning instead of using it to fog from
the central question facing you these days?

Nice talkin' whitcha.


Nice watching you dodge about.

0:]

CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings

[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]

Arizona Daily Star


--
Message posted via FamilyKB.com
http://www.familykb.com/Uwe/Forums.a...nking/200707/1

  #7  
Old July 26th 07, 09:59 AM posted to alt.support.child-protective-services,alt.support.foster-parents,alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,alt.parenting.spanking,alt.support.divorce
Greegor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,243
Default Arizona: CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings...

On Jul 25, 7:24 am, "bodie via FamilyKB.com" u35696@uwe wrote:
Don't spend any time responding to this idiot. Anyone with an IQ over 70


You just weeded out most of the Child Protection INDUSTRY.

understands that he's not rational. He whiles away his days spamming every
forum he can find to spew his hate


alt.support.child-protective-services,
alt.support.foster-parents,
alt.dads-rights.unmoderated,
alt.parenting.spanking

Which one of those is not appropriate ""bodie""?

Hey, whaddya know I found another one that's appropriate!
alt.support.divorce

I love the way the state "Risk Management Office"
works to fight the inevitable LAW SUITS when the
agency workers create HUGE grounds for damages claims.

Yet after 30 years the Child Protection INDUSTRY still
subborns PERJURY and runs like an organized crime racket.

The e-mails described in this article could reasonably
be called witness tampering!

Get a load of how these people "get their stories straight"
with the help of the ""Risk Manaagement Office"".


CPS e-mails raise new questions in handling of 2 young siblings

By Josh Brodesky , arizona daily star Fri Jul 20, 4:41 AM ET

E-mails sent between Child Protective Services employees raise new
questions about whether the agency followed its own guidelines by
keeping Ariana and Tyler Payne with their father, despite a court order
giving custody to their mother.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/azstar/20070...ailsraisenewqu...

The e-mails, which were among roughly 1,500 pages of records released to
the Arizona Daily Star on Thursday, also show the Arizona Center for
Disability Law is investigating the death earlier this year of
5-year-old Brandon Williams.

They indicate the state's Risk Management Office and Attorney General
are preparing for an anticipated claim and/or lawsuit in the deaths of
two of the children, although the names are among hundreds of items that
have been blacked out in the documents.

CPS has been in the media spotlight since this spring following the
deaths of the two Tucson children, and the disappearance of another,
with whom the agency had some type of involvement.

One of the key questions in the Payne case is what steps CPS must take
to supersede a court order for custody, and place a child with the
noncustodial parent.

"If the noncustodial parent wants the child placed with them, a home
study is done, a CPS and criminal background is done on all adults in
the home," says an e-mail exchange between officials who were crafting
an answer to a reporter's question.

But in the Payne case there has been little evidence those steps were taken.

CPS officials say the agency didn't place 4-year-old Ariana and
5-year-old Tyler Payne with their father, who is charged with killing
them. Jamie Hallam, their mother, sent them for a visit.

However, when Hallam called police for help retrieving her children when
the father didn't return them, a CPS worker directed police to leave
them with their father and to not enforce the court order. Ariana's body
was found Feb. 18. Tyler has not been found.

A CPS case summary says Payne was not the subject of any abuse
allegations, but there's no indication they checked his background,
which has a lengthy arrest record.

Brandon Williams, who was autistic, died in March as a result of a skull
fracture, but he also had a large amount of over-the-counter medication
in his system.

His mother Diane Marsh, and a roommate, Flower Tompson, have been
charged with his murder.

The Arizona Center for Disability Law opened an investigation into
Brandon's death in April following local news stories. That
investigation largely focuses on what services were offered or applied
for with the state's Division of Developmental Disabilities. It is also
looking at correspondence between CPS and developmental disabilities
workers regarding Brandon's death, as well as reports and action plans.

Many of the documents show a preoccupation with the media, or were
simply forwarding exchanges of news articles, commenting on them or
discussing how to handle questions. They were obtained as part of the
Star's lawsuit for access to complete CPS case files.

Arizona Daily Star


 




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