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School bus rides (was One More Hour in School Would go a Long Way - But the Union Won't Allow It)



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 14th 05, 02:42 PM
toto
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Posts: n/a
Default School bus rides (was One More Hour in School Would go a Long Way - But the Union Won't Allow It)

On Sat, 14 May 2005 02:41:16 GMT, "Jeff"
wrote:

I think most bus rides are about 15 min. or so. There are some exceptions,
including rides that are longer than an hour.

I don't think the vast majority of bus rides are unacceptable.


http://fred.bloomnet.com/bus.html

In Loudoun, Hope is one of about 100 students with a bus ride
of more than an hour each way, despite the school system's
goal of trying to keep all trips to less than an hour. About 250
students in Prince William County and several dozen in Charles
County ride for more than an hour.

More densely populated counties have more schools, so bus
routes generally are shorter. But some rides are getting longer
there, too. Johnny Forte, a Fairfax County assistant school
superintendent who oversees transportation, said he has
fielded calls from parents who wonder why their children are
on the bus more than 30 minutes even though they live less
than 10 miles from school.

(Here I notice that short trips often take longer than you would
think due to having to go around the canals, so the trip by car
is longer and a trip by school bus with lots of stops is longer
still and this area is pretty densely populated)

************
Obviously, this is more of an issue for rural students and counties
and districts that are not densely populated, but

http://www.acclaim-math.org/docs/htm...l%20Busing.htm

A preliminary picture of the rural school bus ride has been provided
in a recent study by Howley (2001). Based on a five-state survey of
elementary school principals, the researcher discovered that most
rural children experience rides of excessive length. Whereas almost
all such children (85 percent) experience one-way bus rides of more
than 30 minutes, approximately one quarter of them experience
one-way rides of more than 60 minutes.

Not only do long bus rides extend the length of the school day for
many rural children, so too do long wait times at school (i.e., before
the start of and after the conclusion of the instructional day). On
average, the morning wait time for rural students in the responding
schools was an estimated 14 minutes. Their average afternoon
wait time was 13 minutes.

Full report on the effects of such bussing he
http://www.ruraledu.org/docs/howley_bus.htm

Note that most of the students who suffer are minority children
and poor children.



--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
  #2  
Old May 14th 05, 08:04 PM
Bob LeChevalier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

toto wrote:
More densely populated counties have more schools, so bus
routes generally are shorter. But some rides are getting longer
there, too. Johnny Forte, a Fairfax County assistant school
superintendent who oversees transportation, said he has
fielded calls from parents who wonder why their children are
on the bus more than 30 minutes even though they live less
than 10 miles from school.

(Here I notice that short trips often take longer than you would
think due to having to go around the canals, so the trip by car
is longer and a trip by school bus with lots of stops is longer
still and this area is pretty densely populated)


In Fairfax County, it is lots of stops and the economic necessity to
design routes so as to fill every bus to capacity, because of a bus
driver shortage (bus driver pay is actually quite high, but the cost
of living is higher).

The high school regular-ed buses have routes that take 30-60 minutes
to drive. The kids at the beginning of the route get picked up an
hour before school starts; the ones at the end perhaps only 10-15
minutes.

If a kid doesn't take the bus every single day, he is dropped from the
route, which might change the route and the schedule; likewise, new
kids in midyear can change the routes and schedules, often by as much
as a half hour change over the course of a year.

When I was a kid, they set the bus routes at the beginning of the
year, and ridership, especially at the high school level, was variable
with the seasons; the route did not change with ridership changes.
Late buses ran every day, traveled the same routes as the regular
routes, and sometimes had only 10-12 students. Now late buses run
only 2 days a week, have different routes so as to cover the kids of
multiple regular routes, and if too many kids show up, they have to
wait while they order up an extra bus. (Special ed late buses have to
be signed up for at the beginning of the day, or they won't take you.)

My son is in a special high school magnet program - a daily 2 hour
culinary academy at a different school followed by a travel period to
his regular school. Unfortunately, the way things work, kids ride
30-60 minutes on the regular bus to their base school, then board
another bus to the magnet school, only 5-6 miles but another half hour
ride since this is the peak of rush hour and the bus serves two base
high schools; they can't leave until all the buses have arrived at the
first base school, so they typically arrive at the magnet class 30-40
minutes into the class.

I drive my kid directly to the academy. An hour and a half on the bus
to get to a school 6 miles away so as to miss a quarter of the class
was simply too much. He does take the bus back to his base school,
sometimes missing a few minutes of his next class, but the school
conveniently has a 20 minute student-aid period stuck in at that point
where kids in grade trouble go to the classes they are having trouble
in - my son doesn't get that.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
http://www.lojban.org
  #3  
Old May 14th 05, 08:13 PM
dragonlady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
Bob LeChevalier wrote:

The high school regular-ed buses have routes that take 30-60 minutes
to drive. The kids at the beginning of the route get picked up an
hour before school starts; the ones at the end perhaps only 10-15
minutes.


I lived in one school district that had circle routes for all buses:
they started and stopped at the school. They went the same direction
for the morning and the afternoon, so if you were the first on in the
morning, you were also the first OFF in the afternoon -- everyone ended
up riding the same amount of time each day.

I rather liked it; but I don't think it would work if the school
covered a very large geographical area.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

  #4  
Old May 14th 05, 09:34 PM
Rosalie B.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

dragonlady wrote:

In article ,
Bob LeChevalier wrote:

The high school regular-ed buses have routes that take 30-60 minutes
to drive. The kids at the beginning of the route get picked up an
hour before school starts; the ones at the end perhaps only 10-15
minutes.


I lived in one school district that had circle routes for all buses:
they started and stopped at the school. They went the same direction
for the morning and the afternoon, so if you were the first on in the
morning, you were also the first OFF in the afternoon -- everyone ended
up riding the same amount of time each day.


The buses did that on the route we lived on in RI - very very rural
school district, and was quite spread out. But it IS necessary for
there to be a circular route available. Probably would not work well
here in MD because of the various peninsular roads which go out along
the spine of the peninsula and have to come back the same way.

I rather liked it; but I don't think it would work if the school
covered a very large geographical area.


grandma Rosalie
  #5  
Old May 14th 05, 11:07 PM
Donna Metler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



"Bob LeChevalier" wrote in message
news
toto wrote:
More densely populated counties have more schools, so bus
routes generally are shorter. But some rides are getting longer
there, too. Johnny Forte, a Fairfax County assistant school
superintendent who oversees transportation, said he has
fielded calls from parents who wonder why their children are
on the bus more than 30 minutes even though they live less
than 10 miles from school.

(Here I notice that short trips often take longer than you would
think due to having to go around the canals, so the trip by car
is longer and a trip by school bus with lots of stops is longer
still and this area is pretty densely populated)


In Fairfax County, it is lots of stops and the economic necessity to
design routes so as to fill every bus to capacity, because of a bus
driver shortage (bus driver pay is actually quite high, but the cost
of living is higher).

The high school regular-ed buses have routes that take 30-60 minutes
to drive. The kids at the beginning of the route get picked up an
hour before school starts; the ones at the end perhaps only 10-15
minutes.

If a kid doesn't take the bus every single day, he is dropped from the
route, which might change the route and the schedule; likewise, new
kids in midyear can change the routes and schedules, often by as much
as a half hour change over the course of a year.

When I was a kid, they set the bus routes at the beginning of the
year, and ridership, especially at the high school level, was variable
with the seasons; the route did not change with ridership changes.
Late buses ran every day, traveled the same routes as the regular
routes, and sometimes had only 10-12 students. Now late buses run
only 2 days a week, have different routes so as to cover the kids of
multiple regular routes, and if too many kids show up, they have to
wait while they order up an extra bus. (Special ed late buses have to
be signed up for at the beginning of the day, or they won't take you.)

My son is in a special high school magnet program - a daily 2 hour
culinary academy at a different school followed by a travel period to
his regular school. Unfortunately, the way things work, kids ride
30-60 minutes on the regular bus to their base school, then board
another bus to the magnet school, only 5-6 miles but another half hour
ride since this is the peak of rush hour and the bus serves two base
high schools; they can't leave until all the buses have arrived at the
first base school, so they typically arrive at the magnet class 30-40
minutes into the class.

I drive my kid directly to the academy. An hour and a half on the bus
to get to a school 6 miles away so as to miss a quarter of the class
was simply too much. He does take the bus back to his base school,
sometimes missing a few minutes of his next class, but the school
conveniently has a 20 minute student-aid period stuck in at that point
where kids in grade trouble go to the classes they are having trouble
in - my son doesn't get that.

Are metro routes at all usable for school-school travel? ONe of the things I
absolutely LOVED when living in Lubbock was that rather than have school
busses for non-special needs students, every student who could possibly do
so was instead subsidized to use regular public transportation. As a result,
coupled with Lubbock's graph paper grid of roads, there were city busses
within a few blocks walk to take you almost anywhere you'd want to go in the
city, and because both regular public transit users and students used the
city busses, you didn't see much bad behavior from kids. The routes which
served elementary schools did have adults riding to help make sure the
youngest students got off at the right point, but in general, the kids
handled it themselves.

The end result was that the public transit system there was easily the
easiest I've ever dealt with, and it made it much simpler for students who
attended classes outside their area, or had specialized programs. One of the
schools I worked at had a cooperative program with a high school where some
of the students interested in teaching careers came over and helped out for
two afternoons a week (a block schedule, where the students were considered
to be in a class, plus a different start time for elementary and secondary),
and were paid via grant funds to do so. Because of the public transit
system, these high school students (who could walk from the high school)
could then take a city bus home without problems. And for me, a graduate
student, who at the time didn't have a car, the system was a complete
godsend, especially once I started doing practicums at schools around the
city.


lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
http://www.lojban.org



  #6  
Old May 14th 05, 11:31 PM
Rosalie B.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Donna Metler" wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" wrote in message
news
toto wrote:
More densely populated counties have more schools, so bus
routes generally are shorter. But some rides are getting longer
there, too. Johnny Forte, a Fairfax County assistant school
superintendent who oversees transportation, said he has
fielded calls from parents who wonder why their children are
on the bus more than 30 minutes even though they live less
than 10 miles from school.

(Here I notice that short trips often take longer than you would
think due to having to go around the canals, so the trip by car
is longer and a trip by school bus with lots of stops is longer
still and this area is pretty densely populated)


In Fairfax County, it is lots of stops and the economic necessity to
design routes so as to fill every bus to capacity, because of a bus
driver shortage (bus driver pay is actually quite high, but the cost
of living is higher).

The high school regular-ed buses have routes that take 30-60 minutes
to drive. The kids at the beginning of the route get picked up an
hour before school starts; the ones at the end perhaps only 10-15
minutes.

If a kid doesn't take the bus every single day, he is dropped from the
route, which might change the route and the schedule; likewise, new
kids in midyear can change the routes and schedules, often by as much
as a half hour change over the course of a year.

When I was a kid, they set the bus routes at the beginning of the
year, and ridership, especially at the high school level, was variable
with the seasons; the route did not change with ridership changes.
Late buses ran every day, traveled the same routes as the regular
routes, and sometimes had only 10-12 students. Now late buses run
only 2 days a week, have different routes so as to cover the kids of
multiple regular routes, and if too many kids show up, they have to
wait while they order up an extra bus. (Special ed late buses have to
be signed up for at the beginning of the day, or they won't take you.)

My son is in a special high school magnet program - a daily 2 hour
culinary academy at a different school followed by a travel period to
his regular school. Unfortunately, the way things work, kids ride
30-60 minutes on the regular bus to their base school, then board
another bus to the magnet school, only 5-6 miles but another half hour
ride since this is the peak of rush hour and the bus serves two base
high schools; they can't leave until all the buses have arrived at the
first base school, so they typically arrive at the magnet class 30-40
minutes into the class.

I drive my kid directly to the academy. An hour and a half on the bus
to get to a school 6 miles away so as to miss a quarter of the class
was simply too much. He does take the bus back to his base school,
sometimes missing a few minutes of his next class, but the school
conveniently has a 20 minute student-aid period stuck in at that point
where kids in grade trouble go to the classes they are having trouble
in - my son doesn't get that.

Are metro routes at all usable for school-school travel? ONe of the things I
absolutely LOVED when living in Lubbock was that rather than have school
busses for non-special needs students, every student who could possibly do
so was instead subsidized to use regular public transportation. As a result,
coupled with Lubbock's graph paper grid of roads, there were city busses
within a few blocks walk to take you almost anywhere you'd want to go in the
city, and because both regular public transit users and students used the
city busses, you didn't see much bad behavior from kids. The routes which
served elementary schools did have adults riding to help make sure the
youngest students got off at the right point, but in general, the kids
handled it themselves.

The end result was that the public transit system there was easily the
easiest I've ever dealt with, and it made it much simpler for students who
attended classes outside their area, or had specialized programs. One of the
schools I worked at had a cooperative program with a high school where some
of the students interested in teaching careers came over and helped out for
two afternoons a week (a block schedule, where the students were considered
to be in a class, plus a different start time for elementary and secondary),
and were paid via grant funds to do so. Because of the public transit
system, these high school students (who could walk from the high school)
could then take a city bus home without problems. And for me, a graduate
student, who at the time didn't have a car, the system was a complete
godsend, especially once I started doing practicums at schools around the
city.

When I was in elementary school (in Baltimore City), we had a trolley
car that ran down the middle of the main street (Roland Ave) that our
school was on. And kids did ride the trolley to school. I didn't
because I only lived 3-4 blocks from school and I walked - mostly in
the alleys or across the front of a block of stores.

They also use the public bus system to transport students in Nassau
and Bermuda.

grandma Rosalie
  #7  
Old May 15th 05, 12:20 AM
toto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 14 May 2005 17:07:35 -0500, "Donna Metler"
wrote:

The end result was that the public transit system there was easily the
easiest I've ever dealt with, and it made it much simpler for students who
attended classes outside their area, or had specialized programs. One of the
schools I worked at had a cooperative program with a high school where some
of the students interested in teaching careers came over and helped out for
two afternoons a week (a block schedule, where the students were considered
to be in a class, plus a different start time for elementary and secondary),
and were paid via grant funds to do so. Because of the public transit
system, these high school students (who could walk from the high school)
could then take a city bus home without problems. And for me, a graduate
student, who at the time didn't have a car, the system was a complete
godsend, especially once I started doing practicums at schools around the
city.


Chicago's public transit is subsidized for students as well, but I
don't think many children ride the *el* and buses to school before
middle school and kids do take school buses - I think many kids
in urban areas are bused for safety because they would have to
cross very busy urban streets or highways to bet to their schools.

In Evanston, some kids were bused for safety across the
canal that runs on the Chicago river and some were bused
across certain streets as well.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
  #8  
Old May 15th 05, 12:55 AM
Bob LeChevalier
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Donna Metler" wrote:
Are metro routes at all usable for school-school travel?


I really doubt it. They built Metro stations in areas needing
redevelopment, and the routes are designed to feed people into DC. I
know of only 1 high school that is within a few minutes walk from a
Metro station.

ONe of the things I
absolutely LOVED when living in Lubbock was that rather than have school
busses for non-special needs students, every student who could possibly do
so was instead subsidized to use regular public transportation. As a result,
coupled with Lubbock's graph paper grid of roads, there were city busses
within a few blocks walk to take you almost anywhere you'd want to go in the
city, and because both regular public transit users and students used the
city busses, you didn't see much bad behavior from kids.


Metro buses have a little better coverage than the trains, but again
have been oriented to collect people and take them to the Metro
stations, with a few routes that go down the main highways. My son
took a Metro bus home sometimes on Fridays when he attended Herndon
middle school for a year - it is 15 miles from our home, and he had
jazz band practices most Fridays with no late bus. The choice was to
call me and wait more than an hour to get home, or take the Metro bus
to the Metro train station and then take the train to the station a
quarter mile from out house, which took close to the same amount of
time, but he was moving rather than sitting and doing nothing.

lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:
http://www.lojban.org
  #9  
Old May 15th 05, 06:08 AM
Barbara Bomberger
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 14 May 2005 19:55:03 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

"Donna Metler" wrote:
Are metro routes at all usable for school-school travel?


I really doubt it. They built Metro stations in areas needing
redevelopment, and the routes are designed to feed people into DC. I
know of only 1 high school that is within a few minutes walk from a
Metro station.


Washington and Lee would certaily qualify off the top of my head, as
would a big Epeiscopal high school (the name fails me now) on the
Arlington.Fairfax Border near one of the falls church metros

Barb

  #10  
Old May 15th 05, 02:37 PM
Jeanne
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Barbara Bomberger" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 May 2005 19:55:03 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

"Donna Metler" wrote:
Are metro routes at all usable for school-school travel?


I really doubt it. They built Metro stations in areas needing
redevelopment, and the routes are designed to feed people into DC. I
know of only 1 high school that is within a few minutes walk from a
Metro station.


Washington and Lee would certaily qualify off the top of my head, as
would a big Epeiscopal high school (the name fails me now) on the
Arlington.Fairfax Border near one of the falls church metros

Barb

It sounds like Bob was limiting his count to those in Fairfax County. There
are several schools within walking distance within the District and MD
inside the beltway

Jeanne


 




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