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#21
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Is this racist?
P. Tierney wrote in message
So how does that work -- are they just mixed and stirred together in the same glass? I like my Guinness quite a bit, but I've never tried mixing it with anything. You need a quite a large beer glass for this. You pour in the Guiness first, then with an upside down spoon held over the glass, you slowly pour the pale ale over the spoon. The result will be that there is a distinct separation of the beer at first, but as you drink it, they obviously will be mixed together. ) -- Sue (this is how my husband does it anyway) mom to three girls |
#22
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Is this racist?
On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 22:14:50 -0700, "newfy" wrote:
"Wendy Marsden" wrote in message ... I'm driving behind a white GMC Jimmy SUV and it has exactly one bumper sticker on it that says, "I hunt black and tans". I'm looking at this with my mouth open thinking they MUST be talking about dogs, they can't really be talking about lynching, can they? I look closer to see if there's a tiny "with" in there. Nope, but there's a silhouette which I finally figure out (at a stop light when I can study it) is a dog barking up a tree trunk. Well, someone might have already pointed out that a "black and tan" is a type of coonhound. The black and tan being for their coloring. I have a redbone coonhound myself. The reason the silhouette was of a dog barking up a tree is because they tree the racoon/bear/mountain lion, etc. I would be willing to bet there was no ill intent, just a proud black and tan hunter. Perhaps, perhaps not. We cannot tell what was in the person's mind, but the double entendre is there if one knows that black people were called coons at one time in this country and that this derived from the raccoon that black and tans are used to hunt. http://www.ferris.edu/news/jimcrow/coon/ The coon caricature is one of the most insulting of all anti-Black caricatures. The name itself, an abbreviation of raccoon, is dehumanizing. As with Sambo, the coon was portrayed as a lazy, easily frightened, chronically idle, inarticulate, buffoon. The coon differed from the Sambo in subtle but important ways. Sambo was depicted as a perpetual child, not capable of living as an independent adult. The coon acted childish, but he was an adult; albeit a good-for-little adult. Sambo was portrayed as a loyal and contented servant. Indeed, Sambo was offered as a defense for slavery and egregation. How bad could these institutions have been, asked the racialists, if Blacks were contented, even happy, being servants? The coon, although he often worked as a servant, was not happy with his status. He was, simply, too lazy or too cynical to attempt to change his lowly position. Also, by the 1900s, Sambo was dentified with older, docile Blacks who accepted Jim Crow laws and etiquette; whereas coons were increasingly identified with young, urban Blacks who disrespected Whites. Stated differently, the coon was a Sambo gone bad. The prototypical movie coon was Stepin Fetchit, the slow-talking, slow-walking, self-demeaning nitwit. It took his character almost a minute to say: "I'se be catchin' ma feets nah, Boss." Donald Bogle, a cinema historian, lambasted the coon, as played by Stepin Fetchit and others: Before its death, the coon developed into the most blatantly degrading of all black stereotypes. The pure coons emerged as no-account ******s, those unreliable, crazy, lazy, subhuman creatures good for nothing more than eating watermelons, stealing chickens, shooting crap, or butchering the English language. The coon caricature was born during American slavery. Slave masters and overseers often described slaves as "slow," "lazy," "wants pushing," "an eye servant," and "trifling." The master and the slave operated with different motives: the master desired to obtain from the slave the greatest labor, by any means; the slave desired to do the least labor while avoiding punishment. The slave registered his protest against slavery by running away, and, when that was not possible, by slowing work, doing shoddy work, destroying work tools, and faking illness. Slave masters attributed the slaves' poor work performance to shiftlessness, stupidity, desire for freedom, and genetic deficiencies. More at the URL, including pictures. Btw, the Brits had a songs using the word coon and ****** back in the before 1930 http://www.bpmonline.org.uk/bpm4-evolving.html 5 The following table shows the number of incidences of the words 'coon' and '******' in titles of songs published in London in the British Library Collection: ****** Coon 1880-1890 6 2 1891-1900 9 69 1901-1910 12 140 1911-1920 3 23 1921-1930 2 0 -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. Outer Limits |
#23
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Is this racist?
toto wrote:
Perhaps, perhaps not. We cannot tell what was in the person's mind, but the double entendre is there if one knows that black people were called coons at one time in this country and that this derived from the raccoon that black and tans are used to hunt. Thank you, yes, that is exactly what was on my mind. I will grant you, though, that not everyone is as educated about the deplorable history you related as you and I are. In fact, in may just live on as a bit of a cutesy double entendre now. But I wince when I hear someone joking about coon hunting. I live in an area with a significant Hispanic immigrant population. They are "tan". My guess is that they encounter more racism in my area than blacks do. 75 years ago in my area two Italian immigrants named Sacco and Vanzetti were persecuted and executed for a crime they quite obviously did not commit because they were tan. I heard someone mention that I was being overly politically correct. I would counter that by saying that I'm overly educated in what impolitic things people do when they aren't behaving themselves. Wendy |
#24
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Is this racist?
On Sat, 9 Aug 2003, Wendy Marsden wrote: Rosalie B. wrote: I think you are seeing things that aren't there. Black and tans can refer to a couple of different things and people aren't one of them that springs to mind. Okay, that's good. I really wondered. I live in New England (where coon hunting isn't a known sport) and it's a world that's sort of a cross between a Norman Rockwell town and The Cosby Show, where the blacks I know tend to be wealthy professionals or community leaders. (In fact, Bill Cosby lives about 10 miles away, and Norman Rockwell is from this area, too.) But my mind really is on the Civil Rights era. We're just about done with the Civil War and the next unit I'm doing is what happened after the slaves were freed. It's poisonous to think about. I'm certain it's referring to black and tan coon hounds... as per: "there's a silhouette which I finally figure out (at a stop light when I can study it) is a dog barking up a tree trunk." That's *the* commonly used icon for coon hunting. |
#25
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Is this racist?
On Sat, 9 Aug 2003, Bruce and Jeanne wrote: Wendy Marsden wrote: I'm driving behind a white GMC Jimmy SUV and it has exactly one bumper sticker on it that says, "I hunt black and tans". I'm looking at this with my mouth open thinking they MUST be talking about dogs, they can't really be talking about lynching, can they? I look closer to see if there's a tiny "with" in there. Nope, but there's a silhouette which I finally figure out (at a stop light when I can study it) is a dog barking up a tree trunk. Isn't a "black and tan" a Guiness Stout with a Lager (or some pale ale)? I would assume the bumper sticker refers to that, especially given the singular "black". The singular "black" would also be appropriate when referring to the dogs commonly known as "Black and Tans." Black and Tan is a specific breed. To refer to more than one B&T, you say "Black and Tans" not "Blacks and Tans." BTW, I found a copy of the bumper sticker online. Here it is: http://www.huntsmart.com/index.cfm/f...l-1417/ss/1417 or http://tinyurl.com/jjlt Scroll down the page.... |
#26
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Is this racist?
Wendy Marsden wrote: I'm driving behind a white GMC Jimmy SUV and it has exactly one bumper sticker on it that says, "I hunt black and tans". I'm looking at this with my mouth open thinking they MUST be talking about dogs, they can't really be talking about lynching, can they? I look closer to see if there's a tiny "with" in there. Nope, but there's a silhouette which I finally figure out (at a stop light when I can study it) is a dog barking up a tree trunk. I told my husband how scandalized I was by the poor taste of this bumper sticker. He said that he didn't take it that way and he couldn't imagine that the people who put that bumper sticker up thought that way. I said that the double entendre was the whole POINT of putting up that bumper sticker. He said I was off my rocker and way too cynical. Opinions? Am I just nuts to think anyone would be that horrid? I *do* tend to be cynical (and that's a trait my husband deplores.) I'm also putting together a study unit on the Restoration of the American South through to the Civil Rights movement, so racism is on my mind. Wendy, see red I don't think you're nuts to think people could be that horrid - but I have to say, if I saw it, dogs are the only thing that would come to mind. Clisby |
#27
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Is this racist?
"Wendy Marsden" wrote in message ... I'm driving behind a white GMC Jimmy SUV and it has exactly one bumper sticker on it that says, "I hunt black and tans". I'm looking at this with my mouth open thinking they MUST be talking about dogs, they can't really be talking about lynching, can they? I look closer to see if there's a tiny "with" in there. Nope, but there's a silhouette which I finally figure out (at a stop light when I can study it) is a dog barking up a tree trunk. Well, someone might have already pointed out that a "black and tan" is a type of coonhound. The black and tan being for their coloring. I have a redbone coonhound myself. The reason the silhouette was of a dog barking up a tree is because they tree the racoon/bear/mountain lion, etc. I would be willing to bet there was no ill intent, just a proud black and tan hunter. -- JennP. mom to matthew 10/11/00 EDD 4/4/04 |
#28
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Is this racist?
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003, seyshell wrote: On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 14:24:09 GMT, Wendy Marsden wrote: are americans this ... thin skinned (right word??) about colour? Well, if do you mean race relations are that tenuous in general, I'd say no. But I sure don't care for the thought of "hunting" people for their colour. And it actually happened here occasionally within the past 100 years. I tend to have a longer memory than most people. Wendy no i mean about people getting so uptight about perceived insults with regard to colour. normally, from i what i have seen its whites getting upset, on the other persons behalf. Yes, this does happen but I spend a whole lot of my time working with people... of color. And a whole lot of them take insult at anything and everything no matter how far fetched, especially if it comes from a white person. Indeed, one day a mother reported to our principal that I called her a n*gger when, in fact, I hadn't called her anything and the only words I spoke to her were, "Here you go. You can give this to me or to the principal when you've finished filling it out!" Then I opened the elevator for her and smiled. So am I careful? You're damned right I'm careful. I was alone with that woman and it was her word against mine. I was a brand new employee at the time with no local history. That woman knew exactly what she was doing. My saving grace: a principal with a brain and an accuser who had a NEGATIVE history. |
#29
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Is this racist?
"seyshell" wrote in message ... On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 14:24:09 GMT, Wendy Marsden wrote: are americans this ... thin skinned (right word??) about colour? Well, if do you mean race relations are that tenuous in general, I'd say no. But I sure don't care for the thought of "hunting" people for their colour. And it actually happened here occasionally within the past 100 years. I tend to have a longer memory than most people. no i mean about people getting so uptight about perceived insults with regard to colour. This seems to presume that there is a clear line between what is a "perceived insult" and what is an actual insult. That isn't the case, and since certain words and phrases have been deemed socially unacceptable, people are a lot more clever about cloaking their insults in less obvious language. Using terms that are more "inside" and/or more regional is one way to do that, perhaps as in this case, the specifics of hunting dogs are not widely known in every part, or even many parts, of the States. That said, I'd say that the odds are that this person did not have a racial intent in mind when slapping the bumper sticker on the back of his car. OTOH, I also think that, as another poster wrote, odds are that more than a few racists who have driven behind the car in question probably got a good chuckle out of it. normally, from i what i have seen its whites getting upset, on the other persons behalf. And I've normally seen black people not taking kindly to such things, especially those who have been around awhile. Some have got a pretty good reason to be "uptight". P. Tierney |
#30
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Is this racist?
"Joni Rathbun" wrote in message
... The singular "black" would also be appropriate when referring to the dogs commonly known as "Black and Tans." Black and Tan is a specific breed. To refer to more than one B&T, you say "Black and Tans" not "Blacks and Tans." BTW, I found a copy of the bumper sticker online. Here it is: http://www.huntsmart.com/index.cfm/f...l-1417/ss/1417 Yeah, now that I see one I think I've seen them before. Hunting bumper stickers. -Aula --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 8/4/03 |
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